Totally unrelated, but I don't like Game of Thrones. I saw season 1 back to back and couldn't connect with any of the characters and found it hard to care about the different plots.
The thing is, I want to like it. I really do. There are so many characters and complex story archs that it seems that it's the show TV has been waiting for. Not to mention I freaking love fantasy.
Dunno what that is. Maybe I'll give it another chance.
(what's weird is shows I never thought I'd like I ended up liking; Breaking Bad, Prisonbreak, The Office...)
Totally unrelated, but I don't like Game of Thrones. I saw season 1 back to back and couldn't connect with any of the characters and found it hard to care about the different plots.
imo
season 2 >> season 3 >> season 1
I skipped most of season 1 because nothing really made sense and it's only as good as the picture gets, but 2nd season got me stanning all over the place
you don't need to connect different stories and characters because a good chunk of s1 characters will be dead by the middle/end of s3 (sorry for spoiling!!) and there will be occasional newcomers as well
the storyline goes more global than a bunch of random characters doing random stuff anyway
Selaznog, Might I suggest picking 1 or 2 characters that you find remotely intriguing and focus your attention on the nuances of that character. I find myself waiting in dis interest sometimes until my favorite character(s) show up. I know what you mean though. For example...I want to love Assassins Creed but I just don't. I've tried it just isn't there.
if you found it hard to connect with any of the characters, you'll probably hate season 4 or 5, in one of those seasons/books the story revolves around an entirely new cast and doesn't even mention the ones you know and love.
Selaznog, the point is that most of the characters aren't supposed to be likeable. Really, other than Jon Snow and Davos there's nobody else who's good (except Sansa who doesn't count), and from the other relatable characters only Tyrion is interesting. The devil is in the details though, it's the interplay that makes the books a good read, not so much the characters themselves.
Selaznog, the point is that most of the characters aren't supposed to be likeable. Really, other than Jon Snow and Davos there's nobody else who's good.
Really? I find most characters likeable, even the some of the blatantly evil ones. Interesting at worst. Although that should be no surprise since I even eventually warmed up to some of Joe Abercrombie's characters.
I only want to know if Ygritte will be alive one more season...or couple of episodes at least?If she die next episode i will be really pissed off. :poly141:
I only want to know if Ygritte will be alive one more season...or couple of episodes at least?If she die next episode i will be really pissed off. :poly141:
Really? She annoys me (in the books and especially the show). You're safe though.
It's funny how people can have such wildly varying opinions. I think Daenerys is one of the stronger female characters in the last decade or so. Especially in the books.
I find her book chapters to be boring as hell & I dislike her persona, however, her supportive characters are great and she plays a major role in the story after all
that's like the only reason I haven't skipped a single Daenerys chapter while reading
watching her part of show is painfully cringe inducing
It's funny how people can have such wildly varying opinions. I think Daenerys is one of the stronger female characters in the last decade or so. Especially in the books.
She's a strong female character and still unbelievably boring, everything she does is predictable and shallow. While all the other characters are flawed, complex, and human she is by contrast a charicature of righteousness and justice.
Not to mention the laughable strategies she acheives victory with.
Complete Daenerys Season/Book 3 Spoilers:
A city full of slavers with no moral foundation to speak of, Daenerys arrives with 3 dragons and nobody thinks to just kill her and take them? They hide them on the ships for safety but it's clear halfway through the negotiation that the slavers know she has all three, where they are, and which one is the largest. Instead of just taking them by force they decide hey... let's give away our entire army for one dragon without any sort of insurance. Yes this seems like a better route. Nevermind that we could probably conquer the would with three dragons, our integrity as merchants is much more important.
Taking that second city by storming the sewers... which happened to be the only weakpoint to the city.... Really? No one thought to defend the only weak point of entry? They could have sealed the sewer off and launched their waste over the walls at Denaerys's army.
She's conquering a world of fools...
The only difficult decisions she makes are permitting her brother to get killed and sending mormont away and in the first instance she's being abused and the second she's been betrayed. She is on the side of the righteous 100% of the time. When reading through the third book every time there was a chapter for her I groaned and although I haven't read book 4 yet I'm starting to get concerned because I can only assume she becomes a more and more prominent figure as the story continues.
Even Ned Stark who was also very righteous is constantly confronted with conflicts between his family, justice, and obeying the crown. He supports the king over justice and kills Sansa's wolf, turns on the king in favor of justice when he's ordered to send assassins to kill Daenerys, turns on the knig and justice to support his wife when she kidnaps Tyrion, then turns on the crown again later when Joffrey ascends the throne. You even see him doubt himself for a moment when he is talking to Jaime in the throne room about killing the Mad King and he ultimately ends up abandoning his honor all together when he's convinced by Varys to brand himself a traitor and live out his days on the wall. He tries to do the right thing constantly and both him and his family pay dearly for it.
Daenerys by contrast always has easy decisions to make and only loses things when she is the victim, lied to and manipulated by other people.
She's a strong female character and still unbelievably boring, everything she does is predictable and shallow. While all the other characters are flawed, complex, and human she is by contrast a charicature of righteousness and justice.
Ygritte is annoying as hell lol.. just die already!!
Tbh i already annoyed with Jon Snow . now that he with Ygritte. That makes it double annoying.
Its odd, I really hated Jon Snow and Ygritte UNTIL this episode, now Im loving them. The way people die on this show, seeing a tender relationship begin puts me on the edge of the seat, Im sure someone will die....and Im sure itll be all the characters I [we] love.
Its odd, I really hated Jon Snow and Ygritte UNTIL this episode, now Im loving them. The way people die on this show, seeing a tender relationship begin puts me on the edge of the seat, Im sure someone will die....and Im sure itll be all the characters I [we] love.
it's not conveyed so much in the series, but in the book Jon is incredibly introspective about everything happening to him in the service of the king beyond the wall, including his relationship with Ygritte. He's incredibly conflicted about her, on the one hand loving her unconditionally, and on the other hand he's breaking his vows and oaths, something Ned had groomed him to be very strongly against.
the entire thing greatly expands his character and has very profound effects on him.
i'm leaving that there, anything else i type on the matter would be spoiler material.
Agree about Jon Snow. I think they didn't have time to add the depth to the character that he has. The whole castle black experience felt rather rushed to me. But that's the cool thing about the books - you can read, especially Jon's and Daenerys' story pretty much independently from the rest of the books and they still hold up very well.
I am pretty sure I am going to start seeing the spoiler tagged posts from now on in this thread so I'd rather leave it at that.
And yes guys, women's respect these days is judged by their arses and maybe chests didnt you know? heh heh heh lol Sorry I couldnt stop laughing at that post.
I'm on ch. 7 @ book IV, they're about to leave for the citadel by sea, and that sounds like that exact rough ride. ugh eww, losing all respect for him regardless of ass value.
So your respect for women is based on how hot you think they look naked ?
Are you serious?
Of course not.
If anything, I think the way females r presented and objectified in this series is ridiculous. Oh, hello, let me just take off my gown frontally in front of the camera so u may all observe. Yes? OK? Can I now continue acting? thanks.
TBH, I rarely watch TV so this may as well be the norm nowadays, I dunno.
Geez, bad episode. None of that is in the books, unless I'm mistaken. Except Tywins plan and the climb, which was about 1/500th as cool as how it was made out in the book. You can't devote a whole episode to made up stuff if you're only making a 9-12 episode season! The climb should have been an epic cornerstone of the season, that and the wedding. But it was given just a handful of minutes and featured just four characters!
Having said that Granny Tyrell still makes me giggle. C'mon Tywin, surely you experimented a little...
None of that is in the books, unless I'm mistaken. Except Tywins plan and the climb, which was about 1/500th as cool as how it was made out in the book. You can't devote a whole episode to made up stuff if you're only making a 9-12 episode season! The climb should have been an epic cornerstone of the season, that and the wedding. But it was given just a handful of minutes and featured just four characters!
I don't recall the climb being that exciting in the books, or lengthy (the climb itself might have been, but the chapter that features it seems like one of the shortest ones, only 6-7 pages long). I think giving it more screen time would just be boring; it's not like they can really have a conversation while doing it (something walking even has going for it). The book was mostly internal thought with very few spoken words. There's only so many times you can have a character slip before that suspense starts to drop as well. More climbers would have looked nice, but I imagine they'll have a whole crew with them by the next morning. The biggest shame of it is probably in leaving out something Ygritte says to Jon at the top (revealing what the wildlings were searching for, which is one of the reasons Jon was originally supposed to join with them to find out).
As for the rest of the episode, it may not have been in the books but I think it was needed to help bring the show back closer to them. Theon's new friend needed more scenes like that to help establish that he's a massive bastard (along with another clue for the show's audience that he likes to flay people alive). Melisandre and Thoros helping to make it a bit more clear that magic does exist and that the night is dark and full of terrors, while also appearing to set Gendry's character up to meld the character of Edric Storm (who has been previously missing from the show despite having a roll to play). Loras had some limited options last episode due to the changes made to his character (mainly not having older brothers), but this episode helped push him back towards his path as well. Joffrey was behaving nicely the last few episodes thanks to Margaery, so it's good to have a reminder that he's still a little shit.
Not a particularly exciting episode (especially compared to last week), but it was needed to help set things up. Even in the books there's usually a span of several chapters that serve as a calm before the storm (of swords!..... sorry).
Theon's new friend - I really really like the way they introduced him. And the actor they chose. I imagined him totally different when reading the books (even though I don't remember if his looks were ever described), but I really like it.
iirc the whole avalanche happened right in front of them and killed the climbers up ahead..not unlike how it was in the show, except they saw it from afar and then had to climb up after. But yeah, it wasn't the climax of the book or anything.
However...it would have been nice for them to show them dropping ropes and such for those still below--my wife turned to me at the end and was like "sooooo only four people made it over?"
I think they're overdoing the Theon torture stuff too. Maybe not overdoing it...just prematurely hitting it. They've got a looooooooong way to go with him and his torturer still, and their relationship is already getting tiring (to me at least). They could have had only a single scene or two with him the whole season and I would have been ok with that. I mean...that's what they're doing with Davos pretty much.
Theon's new friend - I really really like the way they introduced him. And the actor they chose. I imagined him totally different when reading the books (even though I don't remember if his looks were ever described), but I really like it.
He wasn't super described...but his SMELL was. He was disguised as Reek, wasn't he? It's been awhile...
He wasn't super described...but his SMELL was. He was disguised as Reek, wasn't he? It's been awhile...
No, reek = theon. But we're talking about Mr. Bolton here... I really think the creepy Boltons deserve more attention, even in the books. They're among my favorite villains in the series
No, reek = theon. But we're talking about Mr. Bolton here... I really think the creepy Boltons deserve more attention, even in the books. They're among my favorite villains in the series
Theon wasn't the first Reek though--in Book 3 Reek was a different character that Theon had acquired as a henchman (but wasn't an ironborn). Irrc it was Reek who suggested to kill the miller's kids and pretend they were Bran/Rickon...and then later he's responsible for Theon losing winterfell...and then he basically turns Theon INTO a new "Reek" over the course of the next 2 novels.
Reek was one of Ramsay's friends/servants. After Reek and Ramsay killed and raped a girl , Rodrick and some of his men attacked them (also for revenge for Ramsay kidnapping and forcing Lady Hornwood to marry him for her lands and title). While Reek was busy doing his thing with the body, Ramsay switched clothes and dirtied himself up so that Rodrick would think he was the servant. They killed Reek thinking he was Ramsay, and Ramsay wound up in Winterfell with Theon. (And yeah, it was him who suggested he kill and flay the two boys). When Rodrick was laying siege to reclaim Winterfell, Theon sends 'Reek' off to get help from men he swears are loyal to him. Ramsay returns bathed and armored up, kills Rodrick (who thought he was there to help the northmen), and then reveals himself to Theon. Thats when he knocks out Theon and proceeds to burn Winterfell and murder everyone there.
Theon isn't heard of again until Dance, after he's been tortured quite heavily and is basically the new Reek after being broken / stockholm syndrome
As for his appearance. I forget if it was described originally (I'm sure it must have been, to some extent). I know he's described again later on. Basically ugly, long hair, his fathers eyes. I pictured him as Wormtongue
Theon wasn't the first Reek though--in Book 3 Reek was a different character that Theon had acquired as a henchman (but wasn't an ironborn). Irrc it was Reek who suggested to kill the miller's kids and pretend they were Bran/Rickon...and then later he's responsible for Theon losing winterfell...and then he basically turns Theon INTO a new "Reek" over the course of the next 2 novels.
yeah. I think they cut all this though and introduced Ramsay directly. My memory is getting hazy. Been a long time since I last read the novels. But I wouldn't be surprised that stuff is cut in order to keep the series less confusing.
Am I thinking of a different climb? Everyone from beyond the wall mobilized in the books, and there were mammoths, and giants
Andreas--yup, wrong thing. The climb was to send a small strike force of people stealthily over the wall in an attempt to open the gates at Castle Black for the big army.
Replies
Obama is cloned as well.. =P
The thing is, I want to like it. I really do. There are so many characters and complex story archs that it seems that it's the show TV has been waiting for. Not to mention I freaking love fantasy.
Dunno what that is. Maybe I'll give it another chance.
(what's weird is shows I never thought I'd like I ended up liking; Breaking Bad, Prisonbreak, The Office...)
imo
season 2 >> season 3 >> season 1
I skipped most of season 1 because nothing really made sense and it's only as good as the picture gets, but 2nd season got me stanning all over the place
you don't need to connect different stories and characters because a good chunk of s1 characters will be dead by the middle/end of s3 (sorry for spoiling!!) and there will be occasional newcomers as well
the storyline goes more global than a bunch of random characters doing random stuff anyway
I wonder if this is coincidental or they literally made such a perfect casting decision
baby Samwell tho
Really? She annoys me (in the books and especially the show). You're safe though.
and no one really beats Khaleesi in terms of annoying ~
that's like the only reason I haven't skipped a single Daenerys chapter while reading
watching her part of show is painfully cringe inducing
WHERE R MY DRAAHGONS
Not to mention the laughable strategies she acheives victory with.
Complete Daenerys Season/Book 3 Spoilers:
Taking that second city by storming the sewers... which happened to be the only weakpoint to the city.... Really? No one thought to defend the only weak point of entry? They could have sealed the sewer off and launched their waste over the walls at Denaerys's army.
She's conquering a world of fools...
The only difficult decisions she makes are permitting her brother to get killed and sending mormont away and in the first instance she's being abused and the second she's been betrayed. She is on the side of the righteous 100% of the time. When reading through the third book every time there was a chapter for her I groaned and although I haven't read book 4 yet I'm starting to get concerned because I can only assume she becomes a more and more prominent figure as the story continues.
Even Ned Stark who was also very righteous is constantly confronted with conflicts between his family, justice, and obeying the crown. He supports the king over justice and kills Sansa's wolf, turns on the king in favor of justice when he's ordered to send assassins to kill Daenerys, turns on the knig and justice to support his wife when she kidnaps Tyrion, then turns on the crown again later when Joffrey ascends the throne. You even see him doubt himself for a moment when he is talking to Jaime in the throne room about killing the Mad King and he ultimately ends up abandoning his honor all together when he's convinced by Varys to brand himself a traitor and live out his days on the wall. He tries to do the right thing constantly and both him and his family pay dearly for it.
Daenerys by contrast always has easy decisions to make and only loses things when she is the victim, lied to and manipulated by other people.
Well she does develop some layers in ADwD IMO.
WOW at the ending!! i wonder how gramps will response to that..
Ygritte is annoying as hell lol.. just die already!!
Tbh i already annoyed with Jon Snow . now that he with Ygritte. That makes it double annoying.
someone's jelly.
I fuckin love ygritte, but I guess I liked to get pushed around by gals, so...
knowing the story...
Its odd, I really hated Jon Snow and Ygritte UNTIL this episode, now Im loving them. The way people die on this show, seeing a tender relationship begin puts me on the edge of the seat, Im sure someone will die....and Im sure itll be all the characters I [we] love.
Now that whore redhead was killed by King-J... who's left? not the fire priestess eek
Did you even read that before you clicked Submit?
it's not conveyed so much in the series, but in the book Jon is incredibly introspective about everything happening to him in the service of the king beyond the wall, including his relationship with Ygritte. He's incredibly conflicted about her, on the one hand loving her unconditionally, and on the other hand he's breaking his vows and oaths, something Ned had groomed him to be very strongly against.
the entire thing greatly expands his character and has very profound effects on him.
i'm leaving that there, anything else i type on the matter would be spoiler material.
So your respect for women is based on how hot you think they look naked ?
Are you serious?
first I thought there's a puritan comment incoming, but no ass = no respect, seriously?
oh god I don't really want to read it on anymore, I h-a-t-e you Martin.
And yes guys, women's respect these days is judged by their arses and maybe chests didnt you know? heh heh heh lol Sorry I couldnt stop laughing at that post.
Of course not.
If anything, I think the way females r presented and objectified in this series is ridiculous. Oh, hello, let me just take off my gown frontally in front of the camera so u may all observe. Yes? OK? Can I now continue acting? thanks.
TBH, I rarely watch TV so this may as well be the norm nowadays, I dunno.
Having said that Granny Tyrell still makes me giggle. C'mon Tywin, surely you experimented a little...
I don't recall the climb being that exciting in the books, or lengthy (the climb itself might have been, but the chapter that features it seems like one of the shortest ones, only 6-7 pages long). I think giving it more screen time would just be boring; it's not like they can really have a conversation while doing it (something walking even has going for it). The book was mostly internal thought with very few spoken words. There's only so many times you can have a character slip before that suspense starts to drop as well. More climbers would have looked nice, but I imagine they'll have a whole crew with them by the next morning. The biggest shame of it is probably in leaving out something Ygritte says to Jon at the top (revealing what the wildlings were searching for, which is one of the reasons Jon was originally supposed to join with them to find out).
As for the rest of the episode, it may not have been in the books but I think it was needed to help bring the show back closer to them. Theon's new friend needed more scenes like that to help establish that he's a massive bastard (along with another clue for the show's audience that he likes to flay people alive). Melisandre and Thoros helping to make it a bit more clear that magic does exist and that the night is dark and full of terrors, while also appearing to set Gendry's character up to meld the character of Edric Storm (who has been previously missing from the show despite having a roll to play). Loras had some limited options last episode due to the changes made to his character (mainly not having older brothers), but this episode helped push him back towards his path as well. Joffrey was behaving nicely the last few episodes thanks to Margaery, so it's good to have a reminder that he's still a little shit.
Not a particularly exciting episode (especially compared to last week), but it was needed to help set things up. Even in the books there's usually a span of several chapters that serve as a calm before the storm (of swords!..... sorry).
However...it would have been nice for them to show them dropping ropes and such for those still below--my wife turned to me at the end and was like "sooooo only four people made it over?"
I think they're overdoing the Theon torture stuff too. Maybe not overdoing it...just prematurely hitting it. They've got a looooooooong way to go with him and his torturer still, and their relationship is already getting tiring (to me at least). They could have had only a single scene or two with him the whole season and I would have been ok with that. I mean...that's what they're doing with Davos pretty much.
Theon isn't heard of again until Dance, after he's been tortured quite heavily and is basically the new Reek after being broken / stockholm syndrome
As for his appearance. I forget if it was described originally (I'm sure it must have been, to some extent). I know he's described again later on. Basically ugly, long hair, his fathers eyes. I pictured him as Wormtongue