Home Technical Talk

Adobe Photoshop feedback

135

Replies

  • Mark Dygert
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    pior wrote: »
    Yeah about the color stroke thing!!
    But it is also *very* important to add this as an option, and not a replacement of the current behavior.
    I second that, as cool as it would be to have a nice smooth transition, I have a few brushes that relay on the wonky behavior too. The simplest is a weld brush, the rest aren't so easy to see its influence but it would really suck if it was outright replaced. So smoothing as an option, great! As a replacement, please don't.
  • funshark
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    funshark polycounter lvl 16
    Vig > It was not smoothing but per stroke :D
  • Mark Dygert
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Oh thats what you mean by per stroke =P Yea "smoothing" was a poor choice of words. But now that you mention it, it would be cool to have the jitter turned on, and have it smudge/blur into its neighboring brushes that are dropped as it goes.

    colordyn_per_stroke.jpg
    Just to be clear you can kind ofdo that now without the crazy jitter stepping, by setting the F/Background jitter to 0% and the Color Dynamic Blend Control is to fade or pressure.

    PhotoShopByStroke.jpg
    Neither Fade or Pressure is as perfect as having it per stroke, but its a lot closer then leaving the jitter cranked up as in the first example. Having the jitter cranked in the example, could also lead them to think the person just doesn't know how to use the brush options and ignore the feature request.

    Wouldn't per stroke be a bit laggy? It would have to wait until the end of the stroke to calculate the blend? I also think the blend should follow the stroke like it does with fade turned on, but blend over the distance of the stroke not a set number of dropped brushes.
  • funshark
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    funshark polycounter lvl 16
    Vig> you've not got it ;)

    There is no blend inside each stroke since the "per stroke" option is checked.
    It is just one random colour by stroke, nothing more. :D
    ( I'm still referring to the xysdf' screen )

    Nevertheless, I do support your blending proposal; as we can see it in action in Painter for instance..
  • xysdf
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    xysdf polycounter lvl 11
    Hey Vig, oups! I guess my illustration went a bit to confusion - I'll try to clear it up more.

    I used a fade/blend for the illustration yesterday (nr.1) to somewhat show a hint of the potential usage but that wasnt ment to be the function that I miss. - Here is a try to clear it up:

    colordyn_per_stroke_2.jpg

    currently each Brushtip gets a random color from the color dynamics. I made 4 strokes with the current setup & 4 strokes how the "per stroke" thing should look like. Instead of randomizing each Brushtip of the stroke the "per stroke" would end up with one randomized color, but per stroke... so in the end there are less calculations even, since its just one randomized calculation before the stroke

    :D so I guess for all that I also deserve a grin on my face now - I really thought I nailed it somewhat yesterday..... now its clear!!!! =p
  • Mark Dygert
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Ahh I get ya now.
  • Noren
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Noren polycounter lvl 19
    Something like Zbrushs Decobrush would be nice. (A predefined bitmap gets distorted/conformed along a brushstroke. )
    The ability to use color bitmaps as brushtips, not just alpha/masks.
    I'm on CS2 however.
  • moose
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    moose polycount sponsor
    dang!!! missed this thread! few things from me:

    3d Painting:
    - Needs a true "ambient lighting" setting, to see textures on the 3d model at 100% illumination, and true color without ANY lighting information at all. In order to achieve this in CS4, I have had to add the diffuse as the Ambient color, which was causing problems when while painting over top of it & merging down onto the texture (merged layer brightens, since the diffuse is "brighter," but doesnt show due to the ambient texture.

    - allow the patch tool to work while 3d painting

    2d Texturing:
    - there seems to be some problems when working with large textures with many layers (4096x4096 @ 72dpi), and file saving. I have some files that are close to 16gb psb files, and saving them will take anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes at times while using CS4 64 bit, with very beefy system. Working in the files themselves is not an issue (have only had CS4 crash on me a few times due to memory errors... and i have my settings cranked up!), but it becomes an issue when you're saving frequently for fear of losing work. I realize that this is probably not fixable, since large pixel dimensions and lots of layers will result in huge files, but it is still somewhat of a concern. CS3 saved large files relatively quick, but opened slow. It seems to have been reversed!

    - Would love to see FILTER: OFFSET function as a tool instead of a filter, like an "Advanced Hand" tool.

    - Individual Channel hotkeys... why the change? Would love to be able to set these myself. I use channels very frequently, for both making mask textures, and when working with Normal Map textures. i miss CTRL ~

    Someone earlier in the thread mentioned Adobe Help and F1 issues... Just make an action, bind it to F1, and your problems will go away.
  • MoP
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Vig, btw, you can already blend foreground to background colour in the brush settings, based on pressure, which pretty much does what your middle illustration was asking.
  • man_o_mule
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    man_o_mule polycounter lvl 18
    Vig wrote: »
    Anywho... Incremental opacity, key bind, go!

    i've wanted this for ages. can i say pretty please?
  • pior
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Noren, about the decobrush : can you try to break down what you would like to see added to the photoshop engine, in perspective to what the app already does? i'm sure it would help the dev team, and make things easier than 'add decobrush' :P

    I think it might be just a matter of a few things :
    - a new control in the brush palette, 'twist', doing some fisheye/warping around the center of the brush kindof thing (we could set it to pressure, angle, tilt ...)
    - adding the ability to 'trackback' brush strokes. At the moment photoshop lays down the brush imprints and never looks back at them to use them as input for the rest of the stroke. This video shows that Zbrush somehow takes the previous pixels into account and then dynamically modify these pixels and expands from that (the stroke stretches)
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzR-ff05-0E[/ame]

    About the various color picker requests. Maybe there is two different solutions we could both ask for. The first one consists of newly designed color pickers/wheels/triangles (as mockuped above several times). But I think it would also be very beneficial to have the ability to load a picture as a custom part of the Photoshop interface. Nothing dynamic ; just a simple picture, that stays on top of everything and/or can be called as a shortcut. That way everyone could somehow come up with one's own picker, and swap them at ease.

    Also I'd love to be able to display more color sliders at the same time, when I feel like it (I usually have CMYK loaded, but sometimes need S and V, H not so much.)

    color.jpg
  • Snowfly
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Snowfly polycounter lvl 18
    Yeah, borrow an idea from Painter's book. That's a neat idea. I already do that to some extent (having daubs of swatches and palette "master" images in layers), but having them contained in a palette window that stays put as I drag around the canvas is a huge workflow improvement.

    I would add some flipbook and thumbnail functionality, in case you're color mastering or color picking against a whole bunch of images.
  • Rapante
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Rapante polygon
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "I have seen CS2 on win XP using up 1.6 gb of memory space after I had opened up a number of 8bit png files, resized them, touched up (brush/pencil/eyedropper), saved and closed. No files were open at the time I opened up the task manager when photoshop seemed to get sluggish. I've also seen it up at 2+ gb of usage a few times as well, with the same conditions. So I was just wondering if this was an issue or if it was just something in a history/undo or cache that wasn't being dumped properly. "

    That sounds normal. Photoshop allocates RAM up to the limit you set in preferences, then reuses the memory. Nothing gets freed unless it has to because Photoshop is managing the memory that it already allocated. This is a huge speed improvement over pounding the OS allocator all the time.

    Sluggishness either means that the OS is paging because of some other application, or that Photoshop is trying to finish some file IO (scratch disk).
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "I'm actually trying to edit the images pixel by pixel for sprite animation, so values need to be consistent from frame to frame, I need the ability to edit the 8bit transparency values."

    OK, I'm working on a way to expose the transparency values for editing.
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "for the Brush>Color Dynamics a button that restricts the dynamic per stroke"

    Ooooooh, good idea.
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    A gradient per stroke is nearly impossible for the current Photoshop brush engine. Photoshop does the painting in real-time, so we don't know when the stroke will end. The only way to get a complete gradient across the stroke is to know when the stroke will end before applying the color. That sort of thing is easy if you have a vector paint system (since it's always redoing the paint after you finish), but not for a real-time system. We could do a new tool that post-calculated the gradient (similar to the way the healing brush previews then calculates), but that's going to take a lot of work.
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "- there seems to be some problems when working with large textures with many layers (4096x4096 @ 72dpi), and file saving. I have some files that are close to 16gb psb files, and saving them will take anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes at times while using CS4 64 bit, with very beefy system. Working in the files themselves is not an issue (have only had CS4 crash on me a few times due to memory errors... and i have my settings cranked up!), but it becomes an issue when you're saving frequently for fear of losing work. I realize that this is probably not fixable, since large pixel dimensions and lots of layers will result in huge files, but it is still somewhat of a concern. CS3 saved large files relatively quick, but opened slow. It seems to have been reversed!"

    Hmm, our tests show that CS4 is always faster than CS3 for file reading and saving. And the gating factor on file save speed should be your hard disk. One thing we have seen is a few anti-virus products try to scan files as they're being written - that kinda slows things down (but got fixed in dot releases for the AV products). Other than that, I'm not sure what could be slowing you down.
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "- Individual Channel hotkeys... why the change? Would love to be able to set these myself. I use channels very frequently, for both making mask textures, and when working with Normal Map textures. i miss CTRL ~"

    Consistency with other apps, and Apple tried to grab a bunch of command keys that Photoshop was previously using (someone over there failed to read their own UI guidelines).

    There are plugins and registry entries to go back to the old shortcuts.
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "- How do I exit/confirm a text editing in Fullscreen mode (shortcut Tab) ? Do they fix it in the newest versions?"

    Using the text tool? The enter key commits and the escape key cancels, same as always.
  • Mark Dygert
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    MoP wrote: »
    Vig, btw, you can already blend foreground to background colour in the brush settings, based on pressure, which pretty much does what your middle illustration was asking.
    yep, but you always get some kind of low pressure when you first apply the brush so the gradient will never be 100% foreground to 100% background.

    The only way to blend 100% to 100% is to do a fade, which you have to specify the number of dropped brushes. Lets say 200. If you paint a stroke that is 1000, only the first 200 will be blended anything after that is 100% background. If you paint 20, you get a fraction of the gradient. If there was a way to blend from one color to another over the length of the stroke (would probably happen after the stroke is finished) then you can get 100% to 100% regardless of the stroke length.

    Thats what I thought they where after, but it would probably lag horribly and not be practical. I'd probably stick to doing it with fade and just tediously adjust the fade distance when painting things like grass, hair, fur & rope. I kind of bumbled into the idea based on trying to figure out what it was they meant by per stroke. I'm not sure it would be all that useful for anything outside of what I mentioned...
  • EarthQuake
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Chris: you can edit your posts, you dont need to make 5 posts in a row.
    [edit] 7 posts in a row
  • Tumerboy
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 17
    Something that I've run into before, and just popped up in some work I was doing again, is that when I do a blur filter on a tiling texture, it breaks the tiling. I end up having to a convoluted process of duplicating the pre-blurred image, offsetting it, and using that to cover the seams that the blur on the original does.

    Is it possible to add a "wrap around" checkbox or something on the Blur dialog? That would be immensely useful for me.
  • pior
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Ok guys what about this (since it seems that many tricks are hidden and go unnoticed for years)

    It could expand after a click in the corner, or after a longer time with the mouse on it. Or middle click on the icon.

    expands.jpg
  • Noren
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Noren polycounter lvl 19
    The decobrush, the decobrush... let me see how I can explain.
    (Again, I'm on CS2 still, so I might have missed a feature or two since then. )

    It basically takes a bitmap and stretches it along the spline of your brushstroke.
    (Instead of having many bitmaps/masks that are scattered or distributed along the spline.)
    This bitmap could be rgb or a mask for the current foreground colour.
    It should be possible to select the axis of the image that will go along the spline.
    And perhaps it could be possible to set if the diameter of the bitmap at each point of the spline is derived from the pen pressure, faded in and out along the whole spline or doesn't change at all.

    It provides an easy and quick way to have textures follow a curved surface for example.

    Here I found a video, where you can see the basic behavior:
    (Not the best example, but better than nothing. )
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzR-ff05-0E[/ame]
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "Chris: you can edit your posts, you dont need to make 5 posts in a row."

    It's easier to keep different discussions/replies separate if they're in separate posts.
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "The common Enter key in my Keyboard (ABNT2) just skip a line, and I never (ever) tried the Enter in the NUMERIC keypad.
    And I´ve discovered right now if i use CTRL+ ENTER it works too."

    The "enter" on the main keyboard is actually Return.
    The "enter" on the numeric keypad is really "enter".
    They have different key codes, and do different things - but some PC makers want to give them the same label for some unknown reason.
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    "Ok guys what about this (since it seems that many tricks are hidden and go unnoticed for years)
    It could expand after a click in the corner, or after a longer time with the mouse on it. Or middle click on the icon."

    Too many details, not enough screen space (Elements tried it, and the tooltips took over the screen)

    And if history is any guide - people won't read it anyway. (they already ignore the manual, the online help, the tutorials on the web, thousands of third party books, etc.)
  • ChrisCox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Lampoly - Sounds like you got into computers without ever using a typewriter. Return is "carriage return" and used for type formatting. Enter means "commit this change/execute the command". They really are different beasts. Control-return is there for laptops that don't have enter keys.

    PhotoMerge got completely redone in CS3 and CS4. The new code can deal with differences in exposure (and correct for them if you want).
  • pior
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Well there is other ways to include more context help - why not having a contextual help palette that one can have on or off just any other window (brushes, tool presets, channels) that simply describes what the tool can do. This could even be stored in an open format, so that users could easily overwrite them/provide their own. Many CAD programs do that on the bottom of the screen, but having it in a palette would make so much cooler.

    helppalette.jpg

    Then again, not something I think I need, but there could be unexpected pleasant surprises...

    Also there are many artists out there using tools in a very unexpected way (very few artists think of using the clone brush across documents to add happy accidents). Artists/users could thus provide little .txt files describing his/her use of a specific tool, and the end user could either replace the default help text with it, or snap open the desired 'third party' help. It could even support simple HTML, to make it a fantastic tutorial resource.

    For instance, if there is some very specific action one specific kind of user needs to do, this could be used as a tutorial resource to easily share info for scpecific disciplines (who knows what a molecular analyst uses photoshop for?). So yeah maybe a dedicated tool help palette, and a tutorial palette reading simple html. And tutorials loaded in there could be compiled in a easy manageable, open format (7zip?), to share them just like ABRs!

    Think of what Sparth would do with that...

    (I know about the how tos in CS3 but since they don't stay on top there are kinda useless!)
  • rooster
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    rooster mod
    Pior for prez!
    ps most keyboards I've used have 'enter' written on both keys, so its easy to get confused.. maybe the context help idea would clarify things like that
  • moose
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    moose polycount sponsor
    I've read around about the HD issue too Chris, and yeah- CS4 is much faster than 3 :) I will check with some folks about the filescan while saving issue! Thanks for the clarification on the channel hotkey change! haha... seems like that was "fun." :)

    thanks again for your attention here, and welcome!
  • shotgun
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    shotgun polycounter lvl 19
    i have to say its awesome to have an actual PS guy here listening -- and is beyond suspicion of being a PR hobnob!

    so - i propose - EXPERT MODE KEY x2in1 combo! (like control-X in max).
    All the time I use F and TAB to clear all the stuff and just have a painting in front of me. These two keys (that can create some bugs between them) can be combined into a third key - just one press!


    - i agree with what pior says: get as least stuff cramped in front of user and whats not immediately and most commonly necessary --> 1 more click away.
  • sir-knight
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    sir-knight polycounter lvl 10
    ChrisCox wrote: »
    "I'm actually trying to edit the images pixel by pixel for sprite animation, so values need to be consistent from frame to frame, I need the ability to edit the 8bit transparency values."

    OK, I'm working on a way to expose the transparency values for editing.


    very cool thanks. I think a method similar to the way TGA and regular alpha channel handles it should be fine, thanks :D
  • Farfarer
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    I'm resurrecting this one for a pet peeve I forgot to mention but have been encountering lots in the past couple of weeks;

    When you undo the first action on a newly selected layer, it'll stick you back to the last layer you worked on.

    This is really, really annoying when trying to keep things organised on layers. As when you select your layer, paint a stroke, undo it, then re-paint it - the re-paint isn't on the layer you wanted it on, it's on whatever layer you last did something else to.

    Quite often this means that a few strokes later you suddenly realise you're painting over something you want to keep separate and you have to undo/re-paint it all again or you're out of undos and stuck with it there.

    I realise a lot of folk are probably used to this being legacy, but including it as a tickbox option to turn on/off would be fantastic.
  • Fliff
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    I concur vigorously

    I was not forced to
  • elte
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    elte polycounter lvl 18
    so has anyone found a keyboard shortcut to open color window?
  • funshark
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    funshark polycounter lvl 16
    Talon > I m 100% with you

    elte > if you mean the colorpicker window, there is no keyboard shortcut..
  • Michael Knubben
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Talon wrote: »
    I'm resurrecting this one for a pet peeve I forgot to mention but have been encountering lots in the past couple of weeks;

    When you undo the first action on a newly selected layer, it'll stick you back to the last layer you worked on.

    This is really, really annoying when trying to keep things organised on layers. As when you select your layer, paint a stroke, undo it, then re-paint it - the re-paint isn't on the layer you wanted it on, it's on whatever layer you last did something else to.

    Quite often this means that a few strokes later you suddenly realise you're painting over something you want to keep separate and you have to undo/re-paint it all again or you're out of undos and stuck with it there.

    I realise a lot of folk are probably used to this being legacy, but including it as a tickbox option to turn on/off would be fantastic.


    YES!
    I'm annoyed with myself now for having forgotten to mention this earlier. It's been annoying me a lot in recent weeks.
  • Mark Dygert
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    YES +1. That is very very very annoying. It happens all the time, create a new layer lay down a stroke not quite right (undo) now I'm back on the original layer and sometimes I don't catch it right away. Why undo the last two things?

    Why not bind Ctrl-Z to history back and Shift-Ctrl-Z to history forward by default? I've never really understood toggle undo-redo, that seems more like a special case toggle? Meh... its easy enough to change I guess.
  • kio
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    kio polycounter lvl 15
    i use the undo/redo to compare changes or alternatives... so i lke it somehow. but allowing real shortcuts assignments would solve this anyways...
  • Neox
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Neox godlike master sticky
    moose wrote: »
    3d Painting:
    - Needs a true "ambient lighting" setting, to see textures on the 3d model at 100% illumination, and true color without ANY lighting information at all. In order to achieve this in CS4, I have had to add the diffuse as the Ambient color, which was causing problems when while painting over top of it & merging down onto the texture (merged layer brightens, since the diffuse is "brighter," but doesnt show due to the ambient texture.



    didnt buy the PS version with 3d painting, because it was really slow on my machine but the 100% unlit is possible (i used the trial back then), if i remember right you just had to create a light preset that does this for you. Once you have it you can just apply it with 2 clicks or so.
  • rube
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    rube polycounter lvl 17
    about the Decobrush... this exists already, but only in Illustrator.. there they call it an 'Art Brush' and it stretches a vector image (instead of a bitmap, maybe also a bitmap though. I've only tried it with vectors) across a brush stroke. Very cool and something that would be handy in PS as well. It might seem less alien to them if you mention that the guys in the next room have already done it.
  • Dakkon
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Dakkon polycounter lvl 10
    AUTOBACKUP!!!

    Sorry... Anyone who's had photoshop crash on them without saving in awhile knows how rough that is.
  • MoP
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    100% fully agree with Talon's point. This happens to me far too often - do one action after switching layer, then undo the action, and you get thrown back to the previous layer.
    Layer changes should either be an undo action of their own, or not at all. Maybe a checkbox for this setting in the preferences?
    Either way, a layer change should never be rolled into an undo of a different action, it's just misleading.
  • pior
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Woah Talon you know what I never realized this was an actual problem in the undo engine, I always thought it was my fault somehow (happened to me yesterday!) I always was like, 'Am I stupid or what?'

    Thanks for pointing this one out guys.

    It also seems like it doesn't always go back to the actual previous layer. More like to one 'special' layer. Weird.

    Also normal undo (that I never use...) doesn't cause this, but ctrl-alt-z does.
  • Michael Knubben
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Pior: It goes back to the previously selected layer. Similar to how things in the history can toggle the visibility of layers, I guess.
  • pior
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Nono I you have fun clicking (selecting) many layers one after the other, you'll notice that it doesnt necessarily go back to the last one you selected. (in my case I selected layer 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, worked on 5, ctrl-alt-z > went back to 3)
  • Mark Dygert
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    humm interesting, so its a problem with "history: step back" instead of undo/redo. I can't get undo/redo to switch layers. But I have Ctrl-z (classic undo) set to History: step back, its easy to forget I bound it and easy to mistake it for "undo".

    Can anyone get it to happen with undo/redo?

    Pior, I have the same behavior, it seems to be very arbitrary. Sometimes it does go back to the previous layer.
    I create a new doc, create 3 layers.
    I select 1,2,3, in that order, paint a stroke on 3 step back in the history (for me ctrl-z) and it goes to 1.
    I select 2,3,2,3,2,3 paint a stroke, history step back and it picks 1.
    It seams to work fine and not skip around if I don't adjust the order of the layers. 123 no problem 132 funkiness.
  • MoP
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Yes, layer changing doesn't actually seem to get stored as a state of it's own, more like a property of the previous history state, so stepping back will take you back to the layer that the previous action was performed on - selecting any other layers will not actually trigger it.
135
Sign In or Register to comment.