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Adobe Photoshop feedback

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  • glib
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    TWilson wrote: »
    Fixing the detection of the wacom would be nice. I often load photoshop and find that there's no pressure sensitivity. I have found a half decent fix for this. Set this file to read only:
    C:Documents and SettingsUSERNAMEApplication DataAdobeAdobe Photoshop CS3Adobe Photoshop CS3 SettingsAdobe Photoshop CS3 Prefs.psp

    However... doing this locks in all the current settings which can be a pain if you do a variety of things in PS as I do.

    Is there a hotkey to delete a layer? I could use that.

    This has stopped happening to me since I moved to CS4, and I also don't remember that copy bug rearing its ugly head since the upgrade either. The tablet fixing may be a result of some monkeying I did to a while back though when I stopped working on me. There's a fair bit of info online on disabling the 'Tablet PC' service in vista, and then I think I did a complete un-install/re-install of my wacom drivers. Between that and CS4 everything seems to be fixed.

    I'm still embarrassed my keyboard shortcut mention is at the start of this thread that will get seen by some PS guys. Could someone nuke those posts? Pretty please?
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    man_o_mule wrote: »
    ok, i can see that you can double tap F then photoshop allows you to move the canvas by holding the space bar, but can you rotate it like in painter?
    yes in Photoshop CS4- though you need hardware acceleration for that which is from my expierence a horrible expierence and slow like hell (I had like 4 fps on a quadcore with it, trying to rotate or scale the canvas).

    Anyway my main concern with photoshop is that the performance is dramatlcly dropping since the last releases (starting with CS2). The response you often need with tablets (high framerate) for smooth brush strokes is not present anymore with newer versions.
    I did actually a test with a friend testing Photoshop CS1 , CS3, CS4, openCanvas and Painter in regards of speeds and it turned out that CS3 and even more CS4 were the slowest of all - and it was often hard to paint smooth curves in them.
  • man_o_mule
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    man_o_mule polycounter lvl 18
    renderhjs wrote: »
    yes in Photoshop CS4- though you need hardware acceleration for that which is from my expierence a horrible expierence and slow like hell (I had like 4 fps on a quadcore with it, trying to rotate or scale the canvas).

    So this is only available in CS4? figures since i have CS3.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Glib : please keep you previous post as is!! It would only make the threaded discussion unclear if you edit this. The fact that you as a power user didn't know about that feature is a good indication to adobe that they have to work on its visibility. Like pointed out earlier Silo is more elegant in that regard and could be a great example to follow.

    In the same vein, we requested an option to change the quikmask 50% red color preview to something else. NO ONE in the room knew that *double clicking* the quickmask icon let's you do just that!! Once again a visibility issue I would say.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Renderhjs: do you still have the results of your CSx performance tests? Either a quick video recording, or simple figures, specs and screenshots. Harddata like that would really benefit this adobe person.
  • Kawe
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    Kawe polycounter lvl 8
    About the color wheels. There is a color wheel ins CS4 in Window > Extensions > Kuler. It isn't as good as a color wheel in the default UI would be but it's nice cause you can share themes. If only they made it so you could actually share palettes instead.
  • funshark
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    funshark polycounter lvl 16
    kawe > yep there is... but it's not well integrated like you said. You simply can't select a color directly on it! And need to double click on the palette to do so... ( thing that you can't do with the pen )
  • glib
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    Wow, I had no idea that kuler existed either. That's a great tool!

    And funshark: you can double-click with a pen if you use the 'tap to click' style, or have a button mapped to double-click.
  • glynnsmith
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    glynnsmith polycounter lvl 17
    Just had an idea about the colour wheel thing, for those that might benefit. Is there any way you could code it up in Flash, then use Configurator to put it into a custom PS CS4 panel?

    Not sure whether you could get the embedded Flash movie to talk to PS, but it might be worth a try if there was a way.

    EDIT: Just did a bit of googling and found this which talks about Air being able to talk to PS and AI. Might be worth someone having a stab at it.
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    yeah had the very same though today, was already digging:
    http://www.adobe.com/devnet/photoshop/

    there is a nice and easy tutorial how to do it in just Flash (guess many people here have some basic skills for that):
    http://scriptplayground.com/tutorials/as/Creating-Flash-Panels-for-Photoshop-using-Flash-CS4/

    I had some ideas for custom panels for a longer time already like:
    - a Painter Color wheel like:
    colourwheel.jpg
    - 3d grid preview & generator tool (for CG painting) like
    grid.gif
    - little node editor that can do basic stuff a little bit like node joe, instance properties and update them manually or automaticly,...

    well and lots of other stuff if I had the free time :(
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    well it may be late and i admit haven't looked at CS4 at all (stopped at CS3) but if the interface color scheme is still partly hardcoded, it would be good if adobe would fix this and revert back to the behaviour of pre-CS3 versions where the (windows)-color scheme get's adopted just fine. in CS3 on a 'discreet-dark' scheme, i ended up with photoshop's bright interface color AND my bright front-color - the only bit that got adopted from the scheme it seems. made most of the interface unreadable and the app thus largely unusable on my setup.
  • doc rob
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    doc rob polycounter lvl 19
    fly_soup wrote: »
    That's cool that they're listening and stuff.

    It's way late, but while the thread's still alive I just wanted to clamor for painting and blending at the same time the way Painter, Paint Tool SAI, and ArtRage do. I guess the finger painting option with the smudge tool is supposed to do that, but it doesn't work with pressure sensitivity. That one feature is pretty much the only thing I regularly use other painting programs for.

    THIS.

    You got this, right Pior? I know you use SAI, so I'm guessing you got this :)
  • 00Zero
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    omg did you meet seetharaman narayanan in person?
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yup Docrob it's been brought to attention too for sure!
    Improved ring picker and better canvas rotate aswell.
  • ChrisCox
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    Yes, I'm reading the topic. No, Seetha wasn't there.


    Glib - you're not the only one to overlook a feature in Photoshop. Don't sweat it.

    MoP - sometimes things may seem backwards because you don't know all the considerations that go into their design. Remember that you are not the only user of Photoshop. And don't sweat it.


    Note that Kuler is already a Flash UI. Photoshop CS4 can host Flash panels. (but Flash can't do great color management yet, so pickers are limited)

    Yes, Photoshop CS4 can rotate the canvas, if you have a capable video card and up to date drivers. The CS4 dot release (11.0.1) fixes some of the GL performance problems, and we're still working with the GPU vendors to fix other driver issues.


    I'm adding other requests to our list. As always: the more background you can provide about the problem to be solved and why it is necessary -- the better the chance to justify the feature to a manager who knows absolutely nothing about 3D, painting, or games. :-)
  • funshark
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    funshark polycounter lvl 16
    hola!
    A friend showed me this today : http://www.anastasiy.com/

    It's a colorpicker ( simple ) for photoshop CS4 which STAYS OPEN !!
    developed with AIR...
    I will take a look to configurator too; it can be interesting to speed up the workflow.
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    he he I just googled and found this one:
    http://blog.drwoohoo.com/?p=622
    it lets you control the 3d view in PS CS4 with a Wii Controler :D
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    ChrisCox wrote: »
    MoP - sometimes things may seem backwards because you don't know all the considerations that go into their design. Remember that you are not the only user of Photoshop. And don't sweat it.

    Hey Chris,

    Thanks for posting! :)

    I totally understand what you mean about the design considerations - I guess the games market is just a small portion of Photoshop's market share. Probably graphics, illustration, advertising, web design etc. etc. all have way larger user bases than us game devs :)

    I think that what a game artist would love to see is an Instance / Reference system for layers similar to what 3DS Max does for objects - basically you can pick a layer, make it an instance so that anything changing on the original layer will be updated on the instances (and vice-versa), or alternately make it a "reference" whereby it behaves like an instance but you can also modify the referenced layer (eg. add a blur filter, or tweak the levels locally) - I believe this could already be achieved with smart filters/adjustments applied on top of the layer.

    Anyway, nice to know that someone is listening and taking notes, I'd love to see an update for Photoshop which really gives me a solid reason to upgrade - I've been on CS2 at work since it came out and I don't really want to change since from what I can see there's nothing fundamental that would improve my workflow, and reports of reduced performance have left me a bit disheartened.
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    yes instancing is one of the main things I've wished for when working on game textures that all interact with each other (gloss, spec, diffuse, etc), i reckon it would add a lot of flexibility to the workflow, and speed it up too. a lot of the time (for me) it's a layer mask, that you want to affect a bunch of other layer masks in different groups throughout the file. or you could use it for all sorts of interesting painting techniques like alchemy, rotating or flipping the instances and getting some cool effects
  • Mark Dygert
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    I just want opacity linked to the touch strip on my wacom.

    I've talked to two wacom reps at different functions, years apart and they both said if incremental opacity ever gets linked to a key bind it can happen with no driver updates, it will work just like incremental brush size [] already does.

    One of them went on and tried to explain some technical mumbo-jumbo why it might not be possible, but it sounded a bit like a snow job.

    Anywho... Incremental opacity, key bind, go!
  • sir-knight
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    sir-knight polycounter lvl 10
    guess it's a little late to mention this one, but I figured I'd ask to see if there's a fix...

    anyone else find that the paint/pointer cursors are now too small to see on huge resolutions/screens? Did they fix this at all in CS3+?
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    SK, I don't know about the cursors but for sure you can set the preference to display the brushes as their actual size 'outline'.

    And Chris yeah thanks for taking the time to drop by Polycount! It's nice and cozy here :P
  • sir-knight
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    sir-knight polycounter lvl 10
    yeah I know you can set to show the outline, but I have trouble seeing that sometimes too, I'm not sure if the damn thing just up and vanishes until I move it off the canvas and back on or if I'm just going blind. :D

    oh yeah, is there somewhere I can turn off hotkeys to features I don't use? I'm getting really tired of trying to hit B or M and hitting N for notations :poly142:
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    agree the N key is the most annoying shortcut ever - I wish they would ban it or give an option to shut it up.
  • jerry
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    funshark wrote: »
    hola!
    A friend showed me this today : http://www.anastasiy.com/

    It's a colorpicker ( simple ) for photoshop CS4 which STAYS OPEN !!
    developed with AIR...
    I will take a look to configurator too; it can be interesting to speed up the workflow.

    Super:thumbup:

    I made a screenshot so you can all see this in action:)

    2418pq0.jpg
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Hah, yeah, seconded on the N key thing - not only is it very easy to hit by accident, but if you do that then click even just once, it's a right faff to get rid of the notation (click + delete doesn't work, you have to right-click on the exact little dot and then choose the delete option - really throws you out of "the zone" if you're in the middle of texturing :/ )
  • JordanW
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    JordanW polycounter lvl 19
    jerry wrote: »
    Super:thumbup:

    I made a screenshot so you can all see this in action:)

    2418pq0.jpg

    This should be a sticky like on the internet, seriously how long have I wanted this?
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    I think we should create a thread for that,- something like post your "what would you create as a CS4 panel...." with lots of GUI sketches and ideas about custom panels- and sharing resources.
  • ChrisCox
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    Yes, you've been able to edit most of the tool and menu shortcuts for several versions.
    Edit -> Keyboard Shortcuts -> Shortcuts for Tools

    And removing the annotations tool shortcuts seems to be the most popular use for editing them :-)
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Oh man, I feel like even more of an idiot now. I never dropped down the "Shortcuts For:" menu before, and if I did, I didn't notice the "Tools" section. Gah.
    And the "Preserve Transparency" hotkey setting is in there too... I've been meaning to remove that from /, it's all the way on the other side of the keyboard!
    OK, time to really optimise my hotkeys...
  • ChrisCox
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    "being able to eye drop alpha values with rgb on a 32bit png would be nice. If this has been fixed in cs3 or cs4, please someone tell me"

    That depends on what you mean. Photoshop only supports 8 bit/channel and 16 bit/channel PNG. So I don't know where you're getting 32 bit/channel - unless you have depth and the total number of channels confused (32 bit could mean many things if you confuse those concepts: 2 channels of 16 bits each, 4 channels of 8 bits each, etc.).

    Also, are you talking about transparency (which PNG supports) and not alpha channels (which PNG does not support)?

    And what are you trying to do with the samples?



    "trimming down cpu/memory usage... and fixing memory leaks..."

    We do that before we ship, always. Any memory leak that's within our control (ie: not caused by the OS) gets fixed. Specific details would help....
  • ChrisCox
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    "the ability to decide which parts of the programs are loaded on startup: 3d, fonts, etc. not everyone needs everything. kind of a who-are-you wizard for first timers, then u can adjust from inside the prog."

    The loaded features really don't have any effect - they either aren't loaded (like some DLLs) or get paged out by the OS. They don't allocate memory until you use the feature, then free memory when you stop using it. And the plugins are already load-on-demand and unloaded when you're done.

    You can choose which parts of the UI you want visible (ok, except for the tool palette, we never quite finish making that editable) via workspaces and key/menu editing.

    Also, we really, really don't want hidden bits (MSOffice anyone?) - users have enough trouble finding the features that are already there.
  • ChrisCox
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    "Not sure whether it's been said yet, but layer-based filters would be cool.
    Similar to adjustment layers, you add a filter layer and it'd allow you to ammend/change the filter's settings further down the line, or to add masks to effect it to underlying layers,"

    That concept only works for small documents, or very small and very few filters. The problem is the support area - how many input pixels are need to calculate the output pixel. Now each filter added grows the support area. And if you have something like a warp or distortion - a change to any one input pixel could force recalculation/recompositing of the entire image. It slows down quickly, and before you get a useful number of filters applied - the documents become unresponsive.

    We actually tried the idea a while back. The beta testers had *very* colorful descriptions of how that was not what they thought it would be, and how we should go back to the drawing board.

    Smart Filters do apply to groups of layers - they're just grouped and cached in a separate document (branch on the compositing graph). That introduces an explicit cache/update step, and limits the support region problem (because we explicitly calculate and don't have to do live updates). It also allows us to apply the filters to vector content and other cool things in the future.
  • ChrisCox
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    "ability to change the GUI color just like in recent AfterEffects releases where you have 1 global slider for the GUI darkness."

    We're working on it. But we keep running into OS bugs on the OS drawn controls. Maybe if we just ignore the OS and draw our own controls..... (but then other people will complain)
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    ChrisCox wrote: »
    ...That concept only works for small documents, or very small and very few filters. The problem is the support area - how many input pixels are need to calculate the output pixel. Now each filter added grows the support area. And if you have something like a warp or distortion - a change to any one input pixel could force recalculation/recompositing of the entire image. It slows down quickly, and before you get a useful number of filters applied - the documents become unresponsive.
    maybe in form of a render or push button that only evaluates the node hierarchy of filters and actions as soon as you tell it to.
    It would really help if one could update by one key or button a logical set of instances and or dependencies.

    Thanks for replying so far
  • ChrisCox
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    "I'm still embarrassed my keyboard shortcut mention is at the start of this thread that will get seen by some PS guys. Could someone nuke those posts? Pretty please?"

    Glib - don't worry, I never saw that. Un, uh. Nope, not a bit.
    (I get worse feedback daily in our user forums)
  • ChrisCox
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    Renderhjs - play with smart filters a bit: SAVE is your render button.

    And, of course, you can have nested smart objects and thus a full 2D compositing tree.
  • JordanW
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    JordanW polycounter lvl 19
    A kind of "lazy mouse" feature for the brush would be nice. Other apps like Zbrush let the user turn on a lazy mouse feature that smooths out brush motions over a certain pixel distance. When the person draws the actual drawing cursor drags behind it in a smoothed motion. This would make drawing curves really easy and with a very low smoothing distance make sketching look nicer.

    I want to say I'm pleased to see the direction the 3d elements are taking.

    There are still issues, not being able to handle very high polygon counts(the last patch made it at least useable but still not "perfect").

    Meshes with mirrored UVs cause issues when the brush gets near the seam, it's like PS doesnt know what surface to draw on ( from an artist standpoint it'd be preferable to just draw on the closer face OR both at the same time ....which is i think what Zbrush does).

    Support for tangent space normal maps would be nice. Right now it supports worldspace normal maps but those are a very small portion of what is used in our industry.

    When opening a texture at the same time as painting on the mesh the link is broken a lot of times and I cant recall what exact "motions" cause it but I would expect to be able to bounce back and forth to paint my texture.
  • ChrisCox
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    Photoshop already has a brush smoothing option (look for the checkbox in the brush palette) -- but it's designed to smooth in realtime, not lagtime like ZBrush. Of course, that lag allows ZBrush to do a lot more aggressive smoothing (essentially defining a spline then stroking it as you go). I've added that to the wish list.

    If you have 3D objects/scenes that we can't handle - we'd love to get samples. The limiting factor should be your video card/driver, not our code - but we need more tuning.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Just for the info, here is how lazymouse/steadystroke happens in mudbox - the 'dragged rope' effect as I call it.

    steadystroke.jpg

    Fantastic to have you here Chris!
  • Snowfly
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    Snowfly polycounter lvl 18
    Heya Chris thanks for posting!

    I think the easiest way to include a color wheel would be to have it as an option on the Color palette to replace the ramp that's already there. But then you'd have to include some kind of indicator on the wheel to let the user know approximately which H/S/V value is currently in use.

    That said, I also like color wheels like this that mark off the position of hues that work harmoniously with the currently selected color.

    http://www.colorschemedesigner.com/

    Between the addition of a color wheel and the existing Swatch palette, you could have a pretty powerful color schemer in Photoshop already ;)

    Also, would it be difficult to include the option to be able to move presets around by ctrl-dragging, instead of having to enter Preset Manager? Thanks!

    I apologize If any of these features are already in. Like I mentioned, I'm still stuck on CS3 and don't know what I'm missing.
  • funshark
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    funshark polycounter lvl 16
    Snowfly> In fact, there is already Kuler which is packed with CS4; but it just need to be more integrated ( I mean simple click inside the circle to pick color into photoshop and not into Kuler only)
    By the way, your color schemer is the most powerful one I've seen so far o_o
  • Snowfly
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    Snowfly polycounter lvl 18
    I got the clear to show the patch to the Color Palette we are using in-house:

    PSColorWheel-1.png

    Just kidding, but if I were to ask for minor workflow improvements, this would be one of them. :)
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    I was just wetting my pants - that palette would be awesome
  • sir-knight
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    sir-knight polycounter lvl 10
    ChrisCox wrote: »
    "being able to eye drop alpha values with rgb on a 32bit png would be nice. If this has been fixed in cs3 or cs4, please someone tell me"

    That depends on what you mean. Photoshop only supports 8 bit/channel and 16 bit/channel PNG. So I don't know where you're getting 32 bit/channel - unless you have depth and the total number of channels confused (32 bit could mean many things if you confuse those concepts: 2 channels of 16 bits each, 4 channels of 8 bits each, etc.).

    Also, are you talking about transparency (which PNG supports) and not alpha channels (which PNG does not support)?

    And what are you trying to do with the samples?

    "trimming down cpu/memory usage... and fixing memory leaks..."

    We do that before we ship, always. Any memory leak that's within our control (ie: not caused by the OS) gets fixed. Specific details would help....

    Thanks for the reply Chris. I use CS2 so some of my issues might have been fixed or addressed in later versions.

    In our dev team, we consider 32bit pngs as 4 channels at 8bit each.

    I'm actually trying to edit the images pixel by pixel for sprite animation, so values need to be consistent from frame to frame, I need the ability to edit the 8bit transparency values.

    On several other image editors I can actually toggle it on and off, but can't edit it, I can even use one tool to extract it out of the image as an 8bit greyscale image, so I know it's there.

    As for performance:

    I have seen CS2 on win XP using up 1.6 gb of memory space after I had opened up a number of 8bit png files, resized them, touched up (brush/pencil/eyedropper), saved and closed. No files were open at the time I opened up the task manager when photoshop seemed to get sluggish. I've also seen it up at 2+ gb of usage a few times as well, with the same conditions. So I was just wondering if this was an issue or if it was just something in a history/undo or cache that wasn't being dumped properly.

    CS2 has been incredibly stable otherwise, but I'm a little behind in the new features added in 3 and 4.

    Thanks for your time on this Chris, it's much appreciated :D
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    the lazymouse thing is definately useful when drawing, seperate from regular mouse/input smoothing- used it in SAI (it also applies to pressure) and it's very useful for precision, brush stroke like marks. it kind of feels like dragging a thickly ladened paintbrush smoothly over the paper
  • xysdf
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    xysdf polycounter lvl 11
    I got a reminder today by mightypea about this thread and also had a discussion running with my college about that today - one thing what might be pretty handy and I guess not to complex to solve:

    for the Brush>Color Dynamics a button that restricts the dynamic per stroke
    colordyn_per_stroke.jpg

    cheers!
  • EarthQuake
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    xysdf wrote: »
    I got a reminder today by mightypea about this thread and also had a discussion running with my college about that today - one thing what might be pretty handy and I guess not to complex to solve:

    for the Brush>Color Dynamics a button that restricts the dynamic per stroke
    colordyn_per_stroke.jpg

    cheers!

    Yeah that is one of my biggest pet peaves, i would LOVE to see that per stroke!
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yeah about the color stroke thing!!
    But it is also *very* important to add this as on option, and not a replacement of the current behavior. I have a few scatter brushes relying on the current effect, and obviously this would not work anymore if this new mechanic described by Xzsdfwas wasforced in. So yeah toggles!! I think this applies to many other features dexscribed in this thread. (especially if one solution is not more taxing than the other, just different)

    As for steadystroke/lazymouse. The very important thing about it is that, if I shake my cursor like mad, but still within the 'drag' distance (say 10 pixels), the stroke does not start. (as opposed to a realtime solution smoothing the input no matter what).
  • elte
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    elte polycounter lvl 18
    So has anyone found the workaround to the color picker shortcut?
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