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Adobe Photoshop feedback

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veteran polycounter
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pior veteran polycounter
Hey folks,

Tomorrow morning me and a few other artists will have the chance to meet up with a member of the Photoshop programing team. Hopefully this will be a great, open-minded feedback session.

I am currently putting together my bullet-point list of feature requests and bugs I noticed. I will post it here asap for some extensive PC feedback.

In the meantime, if there is some things that you'd find worth improving in order to make your workflow better, please tell. The only limitation would be to focus on the important things only ; I mean, no need to list each and every little bug or shortcoming, just focus on the annoyances that slow you down during your every day game art/concept art workflow.

For instance : I will report the need for a a shortcut to bring up the color selection window. But I wont talk about some users request to have the current brush displayed in full values as opposed to the current 1 pix outline (because this wouldn't change the workflow at all).

The meeting will likely be too short to address everything so yeah please keep it essential.

Thanks! Will update asap.

Replies

  • glib
    Pior is a really pretty man.
  • pior
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    pior veteran polycounter
    Haha okay this is exactly the kind of things I wont report - or more like, not in that phrasing. The reason is, one can already assign keyboard shortcuts in CS, so if I say that to the guy he will have the usual programmers answer : "it's already there" or "nah you don't want that because"

    So what is the shortcoming of the current keyboard shortcuts system for you Glib? I know that I reassigned many palettes to F5, F6 and so on, and also some actions to F7 F10 and more. So for me the current keyboard shortcut situation does not hindres my workflow.

    What would you like to see improved regarding this? What other program can you think of with an intuitive keyboard shortcut system? (for instance I personally like the Silo way where you just highlight a menu item and type in the desired shortcut and BAM done, over the over complicated maya shortcut editor)
  • glib
    Oh my god. I've been using photoshop for close to a decade and I had no idea it let you customize shortcuts. I'm just going to edit my post and pretend I didn't say that.
  • Funky Bunnies
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    Funky Bunnies polycounter lvl 14
    haha

    this is probably way outta the scope of your discussion, but one of the biggest things I've wanted for photoshop has been a stroke-smoothing tool setting akin to zbrush's lazymouse. I suppose they'd say it wasn't worth the effort though since you can always use a stroke along a curve :(

    and some sort of setup to do symmetrical painting!

    I think a very welcome feature would also be introducing intermediate conditional statements and relative filepaths into the actions setup. It's very true that you can usually accomplish this via scripting fairly easily, but the actions setup is fantastic and it wouldn't take a lot to make it much more robust for every artist to use fully with 0 coding involved :)

    sorry, I doubt that's the kind of stuff you wanted. for some reason I can't think of any simple feature request right now...
  • sir-knight
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    sir-knight polycounter lvl 10
    being able to eye drop alpha values with rgb on a 32bit png would be nice. If this has been fixed in cs3 or cs4, please someone tell me :P

    trimming down cpu/memory usage... and fixing memory leaks... PLEAAAAASE >.<
  • dejawolf
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    dejawolf polycounter lvl 11
    do you have 3d-paint in photoshop CS4?
    if not...
  • Snowfly
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    Snowfly polycounter lvl 14
    -That thing when the canvas flies out from under your cursor when it's near the edge irks me. I think it only happens with tablets.
    -Better management for tool presets. At least the addition of folders, and non-alphabetical sorting.
    -A frontend for managing plugins and filters. Switching them on and off, installing/uninstalling and such.. (OK this one is loooow on my list)
    -A color wheel
    -Use the middle button for some tasks, like resizing brush size by holding it in and dragging
  • shotgun
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    shotgun polycounter lvl 14
    - the ability to assign a key for a specific brush, complete with its own paintmode (e.g. hardlight), brush shape/size/etc.

    - the ability to decide which parts of the programs are loaded on startup: 3d, fonts, etc. not everyone needs everything. kind of a who-are-you wizard for first timers, then u can adjust from inside the prog.

    - if this hasnt returned in latest versions (havent tried) i want back the numerical rotate option, where i enter precise angle for rotation.
  • cw
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    cw polycounter lvl 14
    @ snowfly - side point but you can resize already (you problably know this already but just in case) alt-right click drag. It is bugged for dual brushes though, the second brush tip doesnt get resized :(
  • Snowfly
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    Snowfly polycounter lvl 14
    Oh really? Is that CS4? Still stuck on CS2/CS2 at home and work...Guess I need to plunk down the cash then, haha
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 15
    Instancing layers. And I'm not talking about the ass-backwards Smart Objects. I just want to instance something, easily.

    Also, a more procedural/dynamic "stroke along path" would be cool - for example if you have a path, and you Stroke it with a certain brush, instead of just rasterising those strokes as pixels, it could store the brush settings used to stroke the path, and generate the output on the fly. Then you could easily just tweak the "stroke brush" settings for that path and tweak stuff like spacing/size/colour/pattern etc.
  • arrangemonk
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    arrangemonk polycounter lvl 12
    i would like the scroll wheel keep zooming, not scrolling when zoomed in too much
    didnt find anything to fix that
  • Muzzoid
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    Muzzoid polycounter lvl 10
    yes instancing layers would be awesome!

    "For instance : I will report the need for a a shortcut to bring up the color selection window."

    almost every photo shop digi painter will kiss your feet if you make this happen, including me. But perhaps a mini version of the colour selector as well.

    Also id like to see some much nicer blender tool options, or in other terms, more options to play with colours picked up under the brush. So making a stroke will pick up a certain amount of the colour underneath the brush whilst smudging those lower colour s a little bit.
  • shotgun
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    shotgun polycounter lvl 14
    thats a good idea mop, u basically path-o-size the whole info. makes sense.
  • capone
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    capone polycounter lvl 14
    AUTOBACK!!!!!

    and rotate canvas!


    PLEEEEEASE!!!
  • vik
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    vik polycounter lvl 9
    - the ability to move the canvas around just like in painter would be pretty awesome
    - better brush management, saving custom brushes is a pain in PS
  • JohnnyRaptor
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    JohnnyRaptor polycounter lvl 11
    i like the idea of instancing layers

    and i add

    symmetry painting and free canvas rotation
  • pior
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    pior veteran polycounter
    Alright fantastic feedback everyone!
    Here's the compiled list as it is. Hopefully I'll wake up on time for the meeting haha :D

    http://www.pioroberson.com/files/photoshop feedback - pior oberson.pdf
  • sama.van
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    sama.van polycounter lvl 13
    As I already said, to delete the photoshop help from the F1 keyboard key will help a lot...
    To get the IE window poping when I'm not looking my keyboard and usind my F2 hotkey make my "hoo shit not that again! Vista gonna crash! Toshop nooo -__- fuck you!!!""

    Who need the photoshop help? haha
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    1.)
    node editor for dynamic driven filters/object creation, similar to the ones in Blender, Combustion,...
    AlphaOver.jpg
    with instances, references and copies :D

    2.)
    useable performance for high framerate painting (so that brushes feel more responsive). Perhaps a option for a classic GUI that runs faster as the new eye-candy stuff.

    3.) integrated panel editor
    http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/configurator/

    4.) default unit setup: pixels (and not anymore mm/cm/inch,... stuff) - the print days are gone
  • Noors
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    Noors polycounter lvl 11
    well that's prolly too late...
    but i enjoy some features of bodypaint like :

    - When u draw on canvas limit, it overdraws on other sides. Sexy for tiling textures.
    - You can create an alpha mask on a layer just by droping an other layer on it.

    *wish for instances too*
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz ngon master
    I've wanted for photoshop has been a stroke-smoothing tool setting akin to zbrush's lazymouse.
    and some sort of setup to do symmetrical painting
    the ability to assign a key for a specific brush, complete with its own paintmode (e.g. hardlight), brush shape/size/etc.
    Instancing layers

    Almost everything I would have said :)

    Would like to add though that aside from assigning keys to specific brushes and organizing them in folders, it'd be great if we could break off said folders into new windows or dockable menues along the top or side.
  • Mark Dygert
    Perfect list, +1 to everything mentioned.

    My number one gripe for so long has been:

    - Opacity linked to incremental key presses, like [] for brush size.
    So we can use the touch strips on the Wacom to control opacity!

    I know punching in a number will adjust it exactly, but that requires knowing what my current opacity setting is and making a guess at what it should be. I want to nudge it up or down or better use the touch strip and not take my eyes & hands off what I'm doing.

    - Next would probably standardize the light set-up for 3D paint.
    The way the lights are placed, and the way the are manipulated is awkward and not like any other standardized lighting system.

    I totally agree with Poir's idea of stopping the "true 3D paint" and do it 2D projection. I'd settle for having a split window (2D unwrapped flat and 3D viewport), if viewport updated at a semi reasonable rate. Lighting and true 3D paint make it inaccurate and unreliable for production.
  • Brice Vandemoortele
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    Brice Vandemoortele polycounter lvl 15
    Crap, did I miss the deadline?

    If we're thinking about radical new paradigm:
    I'd like the ability to build non-linear layer systems. It doesn't mean we need to change the basic behavior, but the ability to switch to an 'advanced mode' or something similar.
    I'm tired of copying masks over diffuse, specular etc, when one single 'node' could be linked to the masks of other files and update them automatically. It's kinda similar to 'instancing layers' but a bit further. A unique layer graph could output more than one file, or large layer systems could be shared/instanced into multiple files. I don't know if a nodal interface is the way to go, but something that offer the same level of control would be nice :)
    We could theorize hours about this, i guess you get my point pior :)
  • Sa74n
    instancing is a great idea. instanced masks etc would be very helpful

    very high on my list would also be the ability to assign hotkeys to any key and not to just ctrl+, shift+ or f keys.

    color wheel would also be great.

    and a lazy brush like feature would be awesome, just like in zbrush.
  • CodeFather
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    CodeFather polycounter lvl 12
    A ruler and ellipse guides like in Sketchbook Pro 2010 would be pretty handy :)
  • rasmus
    Prolly too late, but hey - Instancing, symmetry and automatic wrap-around from edges of an image in realtime are things I've wanted for a long time. Also vote for a complete redesign of the brush system of locked and unlocked brushes and stepping back and forth and all that crap that never really made sense to me... :) Go Pior! Reprezent!
  • Tumerboy
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    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 12
    My one big gripe - A brush Manager

    Something where I can create named folders or tabs of brushes, (Painting, Grunge, Etc.) and be able to drag and drop things where I want.
  • bugo
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    bugo polycounter lvl 12
    Color bleeding on the brush or smudge exactly as Painter does to blend colors better.
  • Farfarer
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    Farfarer Polycount Sponsor
    Being able to appy a filter to all selected layers (offset, particularly).

    Brush set manager (current method involves deleting them all except the ones you want, then saving and re-importing everything).

    If I save a file as a different format than the current document, don't add " copy" at the end of the filename (this is just an annoyance).
  • glynnsmith
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    glynnsmith polycounter lvl 13
    Not sure whether it's been said yet, but layer-based filters would be cool.

    Similar to adjustment layers, you add a filter layer and it'd allow you to ammend/change the filter's settings further down the line, or to add masks to effect it to underlying layers, or layers in that group.

    Filters are really the only destructive part of my workflow now. This would change that.

    I also thought this was what smart filters was going to be, but it really wasn't :(
  • Tumerboy
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    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 12
    Talon wrote: »
    If I save a file as a different format than the current document, don't add " copy" at the end of the filename (this is just an annoyance).

    OH DEAR GOD YES!
  • Vrav
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    Vrav polycounter lvl 11
    Oh yes. What is with that copy nonsense.

    One thing I think would be useful is the ability to change your brush size in smaller increments. Maybe this is different with new versions and tablets? Right now, using [ and ] for me increases pretty sharply at certain sizes. I'd like to be able to execute something like shift + [ or ] to scale it one pixel at a time, or ctrl + to go 100px at a time. Though I should think this to be possible with scripting or a more advanced action scripting than I've been using in CS2.

    Edit: oh, also? Some sort of "save incremental" function. Either a custom auto-incrementing save function or like the + and - buttons in Max/Blender during Save As.
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    Tumerboy wrote: »
    OH DEAR GOD YES!
    It does not in CS4 - so they repaired that already
  • Ryno
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    Ryno polycounter lvl 15
    Talon's point of filters to multiple layers. Also Image > Adjust > *** to multiple layers at once.

    I oftentimes need to boost levels, desaturate, etc certain elements of an image, and it would be nice to do this on the corresponding layers themselves rather than using a masked adjustment layer.
  • Tumerboy
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    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 12
    Ah, thanks for that info Hjs
  • pior
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    pior veteran polycounter
    OK the meeting went extremely well, 3hours with a limited pool of artists so we were able to keep things focused.

    The programmer was very open to suggestions (especially the simple, yet artist important ones like the brush ordering and such) - it was much more successful than I expected. We showed him video recordings showing performance decrease over consecutive CS release, provided interface elements mockups, all that.

    Obviously I cannot tell anything about what was discussed (future Adobe plans, that kind of stuff). All I can say is that, everything posted in the .pdf on page 1 has been mentioned over the meeting (even part of the feedback collected here). The suggestions posted later on this thread were not brought up, but, I will make sure to forward this polycount page to him as soon as I get hold on his contact info.

    However, it is worth noting that some things that might seem easy to implement (like, stuff seen in another light app but not in photoshop) are not all that simple in the end for many intertwining reasons. But the good thing is, he is now aware of all these little artist/workflow requests.

    This thread might be checked by him from now on. So please keep stuff well documented and concise. Paradigm changes suggestions are welcome (node based layer system, all that stuff) but for obvious reasons the little 'smart' tricks or fixes have more chance to get through.

    Thanks for everything guys.
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 15
    Arrrgh, now I wish I hadn't said "ass-backwards" since it's in your PDF forever now! haha... now I sound like an idiot.

    Cool that the meeting went well though, here's hoping they listen. Blizzard must be able to put some weight on those Adobe guys, right!
  • pior
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    pior veteran polycounter
    Haha some ass-backwardness is fine actually, artists goddamnit! Got to represent!
    I *could* even update the pdf haha. But honestly I think it's fine.
  • Tumerboy
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    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 12
    awesome, thanks Pior!
  • [Deleted User]
    That's cool that they're listening and stuff.

    It's way late, but while the thread's still alive I just wanted to clamor for painting and blending at the same time the way Painter, Paint Tool SAI, and ArtRage do. I guess the finger painting option with the smudge tool is supposed to do that, but it doesn't work with pressure sensitivity. That one feature is pretty much the only thing I regularly use other painting programs for.
  • man_o_mule
    vik wrote: »
    - the ability to move the canvas around just like in painter would be pretty awesome


    please please please please please please please........ pretty please?
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    ability to change the GUI color just like in recent AfterEffects releases where you have 1 global slider for the GUI darkness.
  • TWilson
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    TWilson polycounter lvl 13
    Fixing the detection of the wacom would be nice. I often load photoshop and find that there's no pressure sensitivity. I have found a half decent fix for this. Set this file to read only:
    C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS3\Adobe Photoshop CS3 Settings\Adobe Photoshop CS3 Prefs.psp

    However... doing this locks in all the current settings which can be a pain if you do a variety of things in PS as I do.

    Is there a hotkey to delete a layer? I could use that.
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    it`s not just wacom tablets sometimes photoshop becomes isolated from the windows clipboard and you can't paste anymore stuff that got copied from other applications. In photoshop itself you can copy and paste - but not paste from the outside.
  • funshark
    vik > what do you mean by "move the canvas around" ? I see nothing that photoshop can't do like painter today in this category ( although the canvas rotating is crappy )
  • vik
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    vik polycounter lvl 9
    funshark wrote: »
    vik > what do you mean by "move the canvas around" ? I see nothing that photoshop can't do like painter today in this category ( although the canvas rotating is crappy )

    Can you? Is it in CS3 or 4, I`m still using CS2. I tried CS4 when it came out but I may have overlooked this feature over the performance issues I was having with it. Just to clairfy: I`m referring to grabbing the canvas and positioning it anywhere *inside* the window.
  • funshark
    vik > yes you can, as far as i know ( at least since cs 1 ) ; just double tap F and do what you want :)
  • vik
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    vik polycounter lvl 9
    oh. my. god. I never knew thx :) cs1 you say :poly124:
  • man_o_mule
    ok, i can see that you can double tap F then photoshop allows you to move the canvas by holding the space bar, but can you rotate it like in painter?
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