well you said you had pinching and i also happened to notice that you have edges that split quads into tris, removing those edges would couse absolutely nothing to change with your model but will improve the quality of the turbosmooth
Hearing what you guys have said is quite painful as I now have to go through my whole model and redo all the support loops on the model and remake one or two things.
BUT! None-the-less I thank you for giving me this terrible news xD it's the only way I am going to learn.
So thanks to Quack!, s620ex1 and WarrenM
EDIT: That actually didn't take as much time as I thought it would. Thanks again everyone! Not going to post another image because I don't want to clog up this thread. Might make a WIP thread for it at a later stage.
well you said you had pinching and i also happened to notice that you have edges that split quads into tris, removing those edges would couse absolutely nothing to change with your model but will improve the quality of the turbosmooth
I said it was a small amount and it worked.
As for the tris, here's why I'm not doing traditional support edges in those areas:
Same thing applies for all areas. Most of the geo on the helmet is curved so I'm getting a hard edge that I don't want. By doing tris I don't have to bother with extra edges that I can easily avoid. And the smoothing is essentially the same. For that piece I couldn't have tris at the top though (breaks the mesh really bad, top one on the pic below) so I had to go for something like this (bottom one):
Snader I don't think he means removing the loop only that edge.
So it becomes a "quad" but it does not really matter, since it won't change the shape or anything really.
Hey guys, I've been having a lot of trouble with this shape... I've done it it multiple different ways, but it still doesn't come out the way I want it to.
Now, I know that "ADD MOAR GEO!!" isn't going to work here, as I need to keep the shape as simple as possible, so please, if anyone has any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated
Basically, I'm trying to cut the circular holes into the curved surface of the mount below.
Un_dead: seems like some of the verts are not welded which is causing some of the pinching effect. Also the edges right above the circle is too close to it.
did a quick and rough version to show you how i did it, i will admit that i do not have the best modelling methods but this is one way I would tackle this part, hope this helps
Main thing to note is to avoid insets on curvature imo, will prevent some mucky situations where you need to fiddle around to not get pinching, i also avoided chamfering as it is hard to modify changes to chamfers when compared to control loops.
listen man, you didnt understand what i was talking about. You have tris there that u dont need lol.
Oh right. Yeah, good point. I guess that's cleaner but not something that changed my smoothing. Removed the edges for the sake of cleanliness though. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Having a little problem that I cant seem to get rid of with this part of a m1911.
This is the groove where the hammer goes,, maybe Im just being REALLY picky but there's a slight pinch I cant get rid of
EDIT: Also, the grooves on the slide of the m1911, any ideas how to do that lol
Hi all first post on this lovely forum, been lurking for years. First time I've tried to do a full on hard surface model with turbo smooth etc. Ive usually just done mobile stuff but wanted to have a crack at some next gen workflow. The idea for the model I'm working on at the moment is to create the high poly to bake down normal maps (and to use in an animation) with a realtime low poly model to come later on.
As you can (hopefully) make out I'm making an A-Wing from Star Wars. Now I've got 2 areas that I'm not happy with (so far) and need some advice.
Now as you can see I'm getting some pinching, yet i did my darnedest to avoid triangles, it might be to do with the alignment but i think its more to do with the supporting edge loops but I'm not too sure, anyone know a better way to do something like this?
Im trying to get that dip on the side white bits onto the burgundy fuselage it needs to be smooth over the top and hard down the side, now i had no idea how to have it sweep to meet the body without using triangles, and how to keep it straight down with out adding tons of complexity to the REST of the model through the edge loops
Unsmoothed
Smoothed with Isoline
So any suggestions on a better way to do that would be appreciated.
And lastly a few overview pictures, you can see how the side inset bit mucks up some of the flow of the body
and unsmoothed with edges on
Sorry for the overly long post and if my pictures are too big etc etc.
I don't know why, but this tire tread pattern is giving me difficulties. I'm trying to figure out how to build the pattern for easy tile and duplication.
Any ideas? Its a fairly easy pattern, but the harsh zig-zag running down the center is throwing me.
-I just took a random amount of edges, you will have to work out how many you need for that
1) Make a cylinder (having 1 cap segment is helpfull to make the selection)
Select 2 edges, skip 2 (or you could do like 2-3, 1-2, depends on what you need) and scale them in as much as is needed
2) remove the top
3) with border selection pull it in, align all the vertices on 1 axis again.
Then with loop tools -> circle, make a circle out of the inner part
4-5) Select these inner edges and pull them up slightly untill the top part is even again
6) add control loops, I always do this shape with quad chamfer (a script).
If you don't have that, other options are to use that "doublesmooth" technique, or manually do chamfers.
Next part (my previous post will help me I believe with this, but just needed some pointers)
The grooves on the side of this part, is it normal to model them in or just add them in PS or ndo2 or something?
The part in blue, how would I go about adding this in?
here's a silly attempt im working on.
Basically what Im doing is modeling the groove itself from a box, then I will bridge/cap the holes once I get a desired shape...seems to be taking a longer time than anticipated
You could use the method Pedro mentioned for making nice flat head bolts, And kinda invert it. Should turn out fine for a bake. On the sides, you can either do Ddo, Floats, Or honestly, Just start from the outside edge, model all the dips in and out, an inset in toward center indent. Then use the method below for the center. Too tired to do that out atm.
having some difficulties with this shape:
it's not just a simple ended piece, it curves to fit the bottom of the slide, and the rail system almost tapers...cant seem to get a right polygon flow here.
I'd delete the inner part up to where you have the dead end loops, Then on the remaining borders verts, Run a spherize modifier so they are perfectly cylindrical, Then between shft+extrude and a bit of scaling, you should be able to get the inner part to be a perfect circle and have no dead end loops.
Sorry i can't paint over, or model out an example. Not at the comp atm. Hope that helps a bit. Will just be faster to delete and rebuild than adjust it to look ok. And will have a better result.
I'd delete the inner part up to where you have the dead end loops, Then on the remaining borders verts, Run a spherize modifier so they are perfectly cylindrical, Then between shft+extrude and a bit of scaling, you should be able to get the inner part to be a perfect circle and have no dead end loops.
Sorry i can't paint over, or model out an example. Not at the comp atm. Hope that helps a bit. Will just be faster to delete and rebuild than adjust it to look ok. And will have a better result.
Im not sure if im following ya haha. Still confused
Is this what you mean? Also, this turbosmooths like complete shit. Not getting good results no matter where I add supporting geo :poly118:
there's literally over 50 people on polycount that have made a glock...you guys got any pointers??
"Not getting good results no matter where I add supporting geo"
would probably be a good idea to post your best try and then show where it's pinching/not doing what you hoped to.
Only thing I can really say atm is that you probably want to chamfer/add a loop here, because just adding 2 control edges to a angle like this is usually not gonna smooth nicely, it will almost always be a sharp point.
Does anyone have some tips for stuff like this (the knot), mainly to save time, I could do it with just using a spline and adding points/refining it, but that's gonna take quite a while.
Im not sure if im following ya haha. Still confused
Is this what you mean? Also, this turbosmooths like complete shit. Not getting good results no matter where I add supporting geo :poly118:
there's literally over 50 people on polycount that have made a glock...you guys got any pointers??
My point before was if you create the inner cylindrical portion before you support your other geometry, You won't have the right amount of sides to have an "uninterrupted" curve. I'll explain what I mean (hopefully)
The border in brighter green(minus one edge, my bad) right now is making a perfect half circle. It has X amount of sections that are all equally spaced from each other, so they will turbo smooth evenly. If this was the end of it, You'd be fine! But unfortunately, Like you saw, you have to run the support loops for the rail(that recessed portion on your model) somewhere (lines in blue). If you just end them, like you did, You will create N-gon's on the middle of a curved surface, which will create errors. On the other hand, if you run them into the perfectly cylindrical portion you have, you will interrupt the curve and break the curvature of the circle when it's smoothed. (The lines in red on the image).
My only suggestion is to delete the faces shaded in green, Run your control loops like normal, Then select every vert on the border and spherize them. Spherize will take every vert selected and space them equally in the shape of a circle (sphere?) based on their center.
If you still have problems post the file as an OBJ and I (someone) could show you how to resolve the end.
and +1 to chamfer.
@Joeriv: I don't think there is a wicked fast way to make that, But personally I'd do it in zbrush . It will be pretty much the same idea as doing it point by point with splines, But it will be easy just to push and pull around the path in zbrush.
Haven't got back to the tire, will do that soon hopefully and post my solution
I have another problem, someone on my polycount thread made me realise I forgot some indents on the top of my weapon, but I'm struggling to see how I can add geo to it without messing up the smoothing. Was just going to add it into the normal map, but then I realised I may as well get this right. Pics and at the end the obj of the dust cover:
A few smoothin errors I have to deal with but most of the shape is alright!
Any way I can get this shape without having to remodel it? Thanks guys!
Just quickly did it to get you started/get the idea across, so it's not perfect/to the ref, but with some tweaking and checking your ref it shouldn't be to hard.
Basicly add edge loops (in green)(you can start with 2, if it's pinching a bit, add more).
And everytime you add a loop push them out a bit to get your rounding back. (you can shift click with shift+swift loop or do it manually, but be carefull that it doesn't ruin other parts).
Or just chamfer the middle symmetry edge, haven't tried that, but also a possibility.
Also you are missing some edge loops in the area in the bottom right.
The one on the left, you shouldn't do it that way because it has a triangle, but just wanted to show that if you need more loops you can just route them down to the bottom.
The on on the right, if you do it that way, make sure to pull that edge out a bit (the one that makes a quad) to keep the rounding
Another thing:
I would really suggest doing an inset here:
Left: Different widths, you can add as much loops on the green line/part, the edge width after smoothing will never be equal (since it always smooths between edges), and it just wont be like nice and clean/even
Rigth: after a inset, a nice even spacing between there wich causes a nice equal edge.
if this causes a tighter edge then you want:
-larger inset, and make sure to make the edge loop on the other part further
-At then end if you are done, add a nice thick chamfer.
For whatever reason, i couldn't import/fix the model to not have creased edges, Which is apparently on my end sense Joeriv got it to smooth fine. So i can't show you how it smoothed here, But it should be fine (from the smoothing i can see). Could be lower/use some adjustment, But you can tweak all that all you want.
The initial cut just needs to be an 8 sided cylinder. Enable snapping. Right click on the snaps button and enable vert snapping. Then from the top view just use the cutting tool to hit the points around the clyinder.
It has gotten a bit harder on that side, but I think with a little bit of tweaking I can make it smoother. Here is this updated dustcover if anyone needs it in the future or wants to take a look!
Ah. Only thing i didn't try. Tried the smooth trick, Export and reimport. Forgot about the edit poly modifier. Thanks.
not perfect. But should be fine. And is a bit easier than adding two loops in the middle that shape. Ideally, you should have started with more geo so you could do what Joeriv showed.
Replies
BUT! None-the-less I thank you for giving me this terrible news xD it's the only way I am going to learn.
So thanks to Quack!, s620ex1 and WarrenM
EDIT: That actually didn't take as much time as I thought it would. Thanks again everyone! Not going to post another image because I don't want to clog up this thread. Might make a WIP thread for it at a later stage.
As for the tris, here's why I'm not doing traditional support edges in those areas:
Same thing applies for all areas. Most of the geo on the helmet is curved so I'm getting a hard edge that I don't want. By doing tris I don't have to bother with extra edges that I can easily avoid. And the smoothing is essentially the same. For that piece I couldn't have tris at the top though (breaks the mesh really bad, top one on the pic below) so I had to go for something like this (bottom one):
A little weird maybe but it works.
So it becomes a "quad" but it does not really matter, since it won't change the shape or anything really.
Now, I know that "ADD MOAR GEO!!" isn't going to work here, as I need to keep the shape as simple as possible, so please, if anyone has any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated
Basically, I'm trying to cut the circular holes into the curved surface of the mount below.
did a quick and rough version to show you how i did it, i will admit that i do not have the best modelling methods but this is one way I would tackle this part, hope this helps
Main thing to note is to avoid insets on curvature imo, will prevent some mucky situations where you need to fiddle around to not get pinching, i also avoided chamfering as it is hard to modify changes to chamfers when compared to control loops.
This is the groove where the hammer goes,, maybe Im just being REALLY picky but there's a slight pinch I cant get rid of
EDIT: Also, the grooves on the slide of the m1911, any ideas how to do that lol
As you can (hopefully) make out I'm making an A-Wing from Star Wars. Now I've got 2 areas that I'm not happy with (so far) and need some advice.
First is this side bit
Reference
This is mine unsmoothed
And with smoothing,
Isoline on
Now as you can see I'm getting some pinching, yet i did my darnedest to avoid triangles, it might be to do with the alignment but i think its more to do with the supporting edge loops but I'm not too sure, anyone know a better way to do something like this?
Second part
Another Reference image
Im trying to get that dip on the side white bits onto the burgundy fuselage it needs to be smooth over the top and hard down the side, now i had no idea how to have it sweep to meet the body without using triangles, and how to keep it straight down with out adding tons of complexity to the REST of the model through the edge loops
Unsmoothed
Smoothed with Isoline
So any suggestions on a better way to do that would be appreciated.
And lastly a few overview pictures, you can see how the side inset bit mucks up some of the flow of the body
and unsmoothed with edges on
Sorry for the overly long post and if my pictures are too big etc etc.
Any ideas? Its a fairly easy pattern, but the harsh zig-zag running down the center is throwing me.
Much thanks!
Having some problems with this shape
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1505700#post1505700
yours is similar, but more simplified. Make 1/2 of one tread, mirror and offset it. Use that to duplicate all the way around for a complete tire....
I haven't done any 3D in some months now, and now I am stuck with this little piece
Any idea how to do this?
Thanks
Hi Wirrexx,
Ok, so here are some more references.
So, I give it another go and this is what I have now:
hammer.blend (click to view in 3D)
I was looking for a way to do the arched part at the left part of it.
Thanks.
Anyways, if anyone is looking for reference pics for Automag .44, I collected a handfull of images about it.
Also, how can I correctly enter a Sketchfab model?
1) Make a cylinder (having 1 cap segment is helpfull to make the selection)
Select 2 edges, skip 2 (or you could do like 2-3, 1-2, depends on what you need) and scale them in as much as is needed
2) remove the top
3) with border selection pull it in, align all the vertices on 1 axis again.
Then with loop tools -> circle, make a circle out of the inner part
4-5) Select these inner edges and pull them up slightly untill the top part is even again
6) add control loops, I always do this shape with quad chamfer (a script).
If you don't have that, other options are to use that "doublesmooth" technique, or manually do chamfers.
hammer.blend (click to view in 3D)
joeriv, I don't think that this object has concave edges, looks more like a nut shape with flat edges to me
Thanks joeriv!
this is a little closer to what I was aiming for. Could you possibly give me a breakdown of this?
Did you make just a cylinder and chamfer the edges?
EDIT: actually I'll figure this out. thank you though!
The grooves on the side of this part, is it normal to model them in or just add them in PS or ndo2 or something?
The part in blue, how would I go about adding this in?
here's a silly attempt im working on.
Basically what Im doing is modeling the groove itself from a box, then I will bridge/cap the holes once I get a desired shape...seems to be taking a longer time than anticipated
1. 36 Sides.
2. Inset
3. Select 5 sides, Scale localy, Skip a face, repeat
4. Select Corner verts, use Select similar to get all 12 easily.
5. Move them on the Z.
6. Repeat with the other sides.
7. Select verts on edges closest to corner, Again, select similar is your friend.
8. With edge constraints on, Scale
9. Again, With edge constraints, Scale the other verts to make an appealing curve.
10. Support/Chamfer/extrude your hole
11. Dodge all the panties
You could use the method Pedro mentioned for making nice flat head bolts, And kinda invert it. Should turn out fine for a bake. On the sides, you can either do Ddo, Floats, Or honestly, Just start from the outside edge, model all the dips in and out, an inset in toward center indent. Then use the method below for the center. Too tired to do that out atm.
Pedro's method found here: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1844239&postcount=2877
I know my edges might be tight, im waiting for racer445 to post his famous picture
1) Added a path and gave it that shape. Then I rotated it 45 degrees.
I also set the thickness and roundness to whatever I liked.
2) Elevated the middle part.
3) Added an array modifier to get a long wire.
4) Added another array modifier to add more wires. Had to play around with the values so there'd be no clipping.
5) converted the path to geom and applied all the modifiers.
Stretched it so it tiles.
Deleted most of the geom I didn't need.
6) Exported it for baking.
[SKETCHFAB]4LRNnY9tjRVt8W4Nc17wA69iqYP[/SKETCHFAB]
http://www.edgesize.com/crap/shape.obj
it's not just a simple ended piece, it curves to fit the bottom of the slide, and the rail system almost tapers...cant seem to get a right polygon flow here.
and here's the ref:
Sorry i can't paint over, or model out an example. Not at the comp atm. Hope that helps a bit. Will just be faster to delete and rebuild than adjust it to look ok. And will have a better result.
Wow! Thank you so much for your help and time! :thumbup:
Im not sure if im following ya haha. Still confused
Is this what you mean? Also, this turbosmooths like complete shit. Not getting good results no matter where I add supporting geo :poly118:
there's literally over 50 people on polycount that have made a glock...you guys got any pointers??
would probably be a good idea to post your best try and then show where it's pinching/not doing what you hoped to.
Only thing I can really say atm is that you probably want to chamfer/add a loop here, because just adding 2 control edges to a angle like this is usually not gonna smooth nicely, it will almost always be a sharp point.
Does anyone have some tips for stuff like this (the knot), mainly to save time, I could do it with just using a spline and adding points/refining it, but that's gonna take quite a while.
My point before was if you create the inner cylindrical portion before you support your other geometry, You won't have the right amount of sides to have an "uninterrupted" curve. I'll explain what I mean (hopefully)
The border in brighter green(minus one edge, my bad) right now is making a perfect half circle. It has X amount of sections that are all equally spaced from each other, so they will turbo smooth evenly. If this was the end of it, You'd be fine! But unfortunately, Like you saw, you have to run the support loops for the rail(that recessed portion on your model) somewhere (lines in blue). If you just end them, like you did, You will create N-gon's on the middle of a curved surface, which will create errors. On the other hand, if you run them into the perfectly cylindrical portion you have, you will interrupt the curve and break the curvature of the circle when it's smoothed. (The lines in red on the image).
My only suggestion is to delete the faces shaded in green, Run your control loops like normal, Then select every vert on the border and spherize them. Spherize will take every vert selected and space them equally in the shape of a circle (sphere?) based on their center.
If you still have problems post the file as an OBJ and I (someone) could show you how to resolve the end.
and +1 to chamfer.
@Joeriv: I don't think there is a wicked fast way to make that, But personally I'd do it in zbrush . It will be pretty much the same idea as doing it point by point with splines, But it will be easy just to push and pull around the path in zbrush.
I have another problem, someone on my polycount thread made me realise I forgot some indents on the top of my weapon, but I'm struggling to see how I can add geo to it without messing up the smoothing. Was just going to add it into the normal map, but then I realised I may as well get this right. Pics and at the end the obj of the dust cover:
A few smoothin errors I have to deal with but most of the shape is alright!
Any way I can get this shape without having to remodel it? Thanks guys!
Obj: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16400376/ak47u/dustcover.obj
Basicly add edge loops (in green)(you can start with 2, if it's pinching a bit, add more).
And everytime you add a loop push them out a bit to get your rounding back. (you can shift click with shift+swift loop or do it manually, but be carefull that it doesn't ruin other parts).
Or just chamfer the middle symmetry edge, haven't tried that, but also a possibility.
Also you are missing some edge loops in the area in the bottom right.
Having a bit of an issue trying to get this to smooth correctly however, not sure how to run my edge loops:
Thanks so much man
The one on the left, you shouldn't do it that way because it has a triangle, but just wanted to show that if you need more loops you can just route them down to the bottom.
The on on the right, if you do it that way, make sure to pull that edge out a bit (the one that makes a quad) to keep the rounding
Another thing:
I would really suggest doing an inset here:
Left: Different widths, you can add as much loops on the green line/part, the edge width after smoothing will never be equal (since it always smooths between edges), and it just wont be like nice and clean/even
Rigth: after a inset, a nice even spacing between there wich causes a nice equal edge.
if this causes a tighter edge then you want:
-larger inset, and make sure to make the edge loop on the other part further
-At then end if you are done, add a nice thick chamfer.
The initial cut just needs to be an 8 sided cylinder. Enable snapping. Right click on the snaps button and enable vert snapping. Then from the top view just use the cutting tool to hit the points around the clyinder.
import -> add a editable poly modifier -> collapse -> solved
It has gotten a bit harder on that side, but I think with a little bit of tweaking I can make it smoother. Here is this updated dustcover if anyone needs it in the future or wants to take a look!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16400376/ak47u/dustcoverfixed.obj
@s620ex1: That is another way to do it
not perfect. But should be fine. And is a bit easier than adding two loops in the middle that shape. Ideally, you should have started with more geo so you could do what Joeriv showed.