Marmoset Viewer IS OUT!

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Toolbag 2 | 2.07 Update, Marmoset Viewer Now Included!

Today is the day! We can’t possibly overstate how excited we are to announce the release of Marmoset Viewer, which is now included FOR FREE in the Toolbag 2.07 update! Marmoset Viewer brings the power of Toolbag 2 to the web in high quality, fully interactive 3D glory. Share your art like never before by integrating 3D scenes into your self-hosted portfolio or uploading your work to http://www.artstation.com.

For more info about Marmoset Viewer, visit: http://www.marmoset.co/viewer
Check out the Getting Started tutorial as well: http://www.marmoset.co/viewer/gettingstarted

2.07 is a huge update, with additional features including support for material IDs, Unity tangent space, Substance 5 materials, PLY mesh format, Filmic tone mapping, tooltips, default scene and material systems, object locking and too many other features and bug fixes to list.

Toolbag 2 Changelog: http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/history
Buy or try Toolbag 2: http://www.marmoset.co/shop/tb2[ame="

Replies

  • tungerz
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    tungerz polygon
    Thats looks freakin awesome Joe (¤¿¤)
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Well that's awesome. This could really help artists share their work and get detailed critique; I mean of course now you can already share a .tb2 file, but who does that anyway? And who could be bothered to download and load one up? I hope to see this used quite a lot on polycount.

    I wonder how popular it will be for portfolio's though. Maybe the default will be still images with the option of Marmoset Viewer as a separate page or something; will probably depend on load times / if plugins need to be installed etc. Still, an excellent option to have.
  • EarthQuake
    Load times are generally quite fast, it depends on the content itself (how many and how large the textures are), but we compress and channel pack to optimize the content, and we have a few quality settings as well if you want faster loading times or better quality.

    We use WebGL so no plugins are required, as long as your browser/device supports WebGL, which most do these days.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Sweet. Do artists have to worry about people ripping the models+textures from the web viewer in some way? I assume it's fairly secure (not that I'm personally that concerned) but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

    Man I wish I was at GDC though; so much cool stuff.
  • tungerz
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    tungerz polygon
    Jusy noticed that sketchfab offers pbr display as well, like bek though not sure of how secure.

    Does Marmoset export to the viewer or archive?
  • chronic
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    chronic polycounter lvl 9
    I am concerned about people extracting models and textures from the viewer - especially from work done professionally since it technically belongs to the company and you normally would be fine showing images but not sharing source files.
  • EarthQuake
    Bek wrote: »
    Sweet. Do artists have to worry about people ripping the models+textures from the web viewer in some way? I assume it's fairly secure (not that I'm personally that concerned) but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

    Man I wish I was at GDC though; so much cool stuff.

    Any time you send model and texture data over the internet it could feasibly be intercepted, we don't make this process easy, but our viewer, and any other viewer that displays 3d on the web is vulnerable to hacking. This applies to many games as well, if your art is in a game engine, there are methods to extract it from the buffer.

    This isn't an issue unique to Marmoset Viewer, nor is it a new issue. Basically, hackers gonna hack, so how concerned you should be about this is really up to you.
  • EarthQuake
    tungerz wrote: »
    Jusy noticed that sketchfab offers pbr display as well, like bek though not sure of how secure.

    Does Marmoset export to the viewer or archive?

    We do not export to Sketchfab nor is our content compatible with their system.

    Marmoset Viewer files are exported from Marmoset Toolbag 2, at which point you can upload them to your web server and embed them into a webpage, either directly into a .html file or by loading a .html file up with an iframe. We feel it is important to give artists full control over their files and how they are hosted. We will be working with various forums to support embedding the Viewer directly into threads as well.
  • tungerz
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    tungerz polygon
    Opps, didn't mean export to sketchfab, just got side tracked when I saw it and mentioned it. (
  • cptSwing
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    cptSwing polycounter lvl 7
  • eworc
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    eworc polycounter lvl 3
    Very nice. Great job!
  • jfitch
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    jfitch polycounter lvl 5
    Can't wait to use this at the next GDC! Awesome work guys.
  • Count Vertsalot
    How does one adjust presentation settings in Marmoset Viewer? It done on the fly or will I have to repackage the file and re-upload it to the web server?

    I'm in the middle of picking a web hosting company. I want something easy to use so it will probably be one of those sandbox portfolio hosting solutions where I don't have to code much. Is there something I should look out for to ensure compatibility?
  • EarthQuake
    How does one adjust presentation settings in Marmoset Viewer? It done on the fly or will I have to repackage the file and re-upload it to the web server?

    This sort of depends on what you mean by presentation settings. Right now, all of the mesh, material, shader, camera, lighting and post effect information is saved into the .mview file. So if you wanted to change any of that, you would need to re-export the scene.
    I'm in the middle of picking a web hosting company. I want something easy to use so it will probably be one of those sandbox portfolio hosting solutions where I don't have to code much. Is there something I should look out for to ensure compatibility?

    At this point, I believe as long as your web-host allows you to upload the files and gives you access html editing you should be able to embed Viewer files.
  • Count Vertsalot
    "Take full control of your art by hosting the content on your web server and adjusting presentation settings to suit your needs."

    Sorry, wasn't clear. I'm asking what that means. It's on the Marmoset Viewer webpage. Like if I want the user to be able to see a specific map or not. Is that something that I set at export or is that something I can just configure somehow after it's on my portfolio site.
  • EarthQuake
    At this time we do provide tools for customizing the user interface of the viewer itself, the maps that are visible are pre-set. We may look into adding more options for customizing the UI in the future though.

    What we mean by presentation settings is the visual presentation of the art content itself, lighting, camera, post effects, etc.
  • Count Vertsalot
    Cool, so it's pretty dummy proof then. I was kinda paranoid about uploading something and having some part display incorrectly like calling my normal map albedo or something else dumb since my HTML skills are so rusty. If it's all included and it just works then I'm all good and await your awesomeness.
  • EarthQuake
    Yep, all of that is automated, we're trying to make the export process as easy and simple as possible. Right now the only export variables are texture quality, artist information and some optional html-related settings. Though again, we may look into some more advanced options at some point.
  • oskarkeo
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    oskarkeo polycounter lvl 7
    Hey Joe,

    just wondering if there was an ETA for Viewer? Apologies if this has been detailed elsewhere. and np if you're not ready to divulge yet

    Cheers
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    We're obviously excited to get the viewer out to you guys as soon as we possibly can! But so far all of our testing has been internal. We're planning to do some closed beta testing and then if all goes well, it will be launched as an update to toolbag in the coming weeks!
  • oskarkeo
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    oskarkeo polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks for the answer Lee.
    no rush, just wanting to get a better handle on when to maybe expect.
    Lots of exciting news came from lots of directions at GDC, but i didn't notice too many eta's.

    few weeks = hopefully before june in my estimation, will practice the patience game till then. :)
  • EarthQuake
    Weeks to months is what I'm thinking, before June is isn't unreasonable at this point, but no promises =)
  • Count Vertsalot
    Do you guys plan on implementing a way to view flat UV layout images in the viewer? It's just an image I could stick on my site next to the viewer window I suppose, but I'm just curious if you're looking at a solution for this.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    Well, there's no real point of showing texture flats outside of showing your UV packing/unwrapping skills, since the individual channels can be seen on the model itself.

    However, one suggestion that seems to have been quite popular is some kind of texel density display on the mesh. Your thoughts?
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Yeah that'd be pretty sweet.
  • EarthQuake
    The primary issue with displaying flats is that your model may have any number of materials/texture sets. So lets say someone loads a character or environment with 8 different texture sets, now we need to have a much more advanced user interface to show all these different maps.

    This is why we opted to show the maps in 3D instead, because you can view the textures all at once (regardless of how many), while retaining the the same 3D controls and interface. We haven't ruled out a flat view entirely, but we feel that presenting the maps in 3D feels a lot more natural, we'll be interested to hear what you guys think when the public build is out.

    Now, you can embed the Viewer directly into your portfolio, so there is nothing stopping you from say, loading an image below the viewer embed to show your texture maps in whichever 2d layout you prefer.
  • Count Vertsalot
    Yeah, that's my bad from thinking from a character artist perspective. It wouldn't make sense for an environment or even a complex character really. Texel density would be cool, but it's easy enough to just show a separate image of my UV flats on my site if I feel inclined to do so. If you do add texel density, will there be a way to adjust the pattern tiling? I'm assuming you'll be using a checker pattern or something similar to observe texel density. I'm somewhat concerned about the pattern not fitting on complex forms if I cannot tile it to fit my needs.

    I'm guessing that if I embed to a specific viewer size that I can toggle full screen like in Sketchfab or p3d.in. To me that's more important than viewing flats. I want all the detail I work on to be easily viewable.
  • EarthQuake
    viewergdcgallery.jpg

    Marmoset Viewer | GDC Gallery

    http://viewer.marmoset.co/test/gdcgallery.html

    Marmoset Viewer is currently in private beta, however, we wanted to give everyone a sneak peak. This is the demo gallery we put together for our 2015 GDC booth. We also want to send out a special thanks to all the talented artists who are helping us iron out bugs and get Marmoset Viewer ready for release.

    Learn more about Marmoset Viewer: http://www.marmoset.co/viewer
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    o6ALN8u.gif
  • Count Vertsalot
    Nice. I will definitely be using it. One thing I noticed is that it could use some instructions on the navigation for people not familiar with Marmoset. The mouse buttons are pretty obvious, but holding shift to move the lights is kind of hidden.
  • EarthQuake
    Nice. I will definitely be using it. One thing I noticed is that it could use some instructions on the navigation for people not familiar with Marmoset. The mouse buttons are pretty obvious, but holding shift to move the lights is kind of hidden.

    Thanks, yeah this is something we've been thinking about too, sky rotation isn't immediately clear. On pc/mac, its shift+lmb, on mobile/touch its three finger swipe.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 5
    There should be some way to easily center the view on the scene too.
  • Count Vertsalot
    Middle and right mouse buttons do the same thing right now. The problem I'm seeing is that I'm trying to navigate it like I would in a 3D app because I have to press shift and it's making me hold alt or ctrl on accident. I know the scroll wheel zooms, but maybe you can make one of those rotate the sky and get rid of shift. It looks like double left click and space bar does the same thing too. I think double click should recenter stuff. I think a simple one handed navigation method would go a long way.

    You could put a simple icon of a mouse in the upper left corner and have each button highlighted with a single word explanation for each and everyone would instantly know how to use it.
  • EarthQuake
    Thanks for the feedback!

    Unfortunately we can't rely on MMB, as not all devices have them, most laptops don't have a MMB for instance. So MMB and RMB do the same, as pan is typically bound to MMB in 3d apps. Maybe MMB+drag could rotate the sky, but even that doesn't solve the issue (its simply not apparent that sky rotation is a thing you can do) so we may need to add an interface for it or something.

    Double click brings up the layers view, space bar doesn't do anything in Marmoset Viewer, but shows/hides the UI in Toolbag 2.
  • Count Vertsalot
    I thought I was crazy for a moment. Turns out I hit the tab key twice and the space bar started opening the layer view. Didn't consider laptops not having a MMB. How do people zoom on a laptop without a mouse scroll wheel?
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 5
    Most touchpads these days either turn two finger scrolling into scroll wheel events, or have an area on the far right where if you drag along it with one finger it sends scroll wheel events.
  • EarthQuake
    Yeah nearly every laptop has some built in scroll function, but few have MMB.

    RE: Tab twice, yeah you tabbed over to the layers button, and hitting space is the same as a mouse click then. Not crazy. :poly142:
  • Count Vertsalot
    Well I'll be damned. I didn't know my laptop touchpad could do that since I use the touchscreen so often. I think it's safe to say you need some sort of UI buttons though. You can use my ignorance as a baseline. :D

    Edit: You might want to consider putting in an button that automatically rotates the scene slowly as well.
  • Joopson
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    Joopson Polycount Sponsor
    Is there a reason why the normal maps all look like Object-space instead of tangent space, within the web-viewer? Is it only a visual thing, or is it a technical requirement or something?
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    The normals in the viewer are being displayed in worldspace, a slightly more accurate description would be to say that what's being rendered are the actual surface normals.

    During the rendering process, tangent space normals are converted into worldspace, we're just rendering the final output. One of the main benefits to this is it's far easier to diagnose bad normals in this view than it is displaying tangents only.
  • WarrenM
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    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    EQ - God, that looks great.

    Small suggestion ... can you make it so when you mouse wheel over a spot to zoom in, the viewport zooms to that location instead of just towards the center? That would allow for quick inspection of models.
  • EarthQuake
    Joopson wrote: »
    Is there a reason why the normal maps all look like Object-space instead of tangent space, within the web-viewer? Is it only a visual thing, or is it a technical requirement or something?

    There are no technical requirements here, you can use tangent space normal maps like you normally would. To render a tangent space map, every renderer has to convert it to world space, so we're simply showing the end result.

    As Lee says, this is a more accurate representation of what your normals (mesh+normal map) actually look like, rather than simply showing the tangent space map, which is really normal data out of context, and looking at it doesn't tell you much. One of the biggest reasons we've gone with world space normals is that you see what the normals actually look like when applied to the model, and as we're showing the maps applied in 3d, tangent space maps would present "seams" and other artifacts like ugly gradients that are necessary to compensate for the lowpoly mesh normals and uv discontinuities, but do not actually show up in the end result.

    Also, you can shift+drag to "rotate" the world space normals, which is fun. :)
  • aelwine
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    aelwine polycounter lvl 6
    Looking great, but I've probably a bug .
    All the models are flipped vertically (or at least rotated 180 degrees). I'm not sure if it's marmoset related though or some other setting or driver problem. I think I encountered the same problem with another web 3D viewer before.
  • EarthQuake
    WarrenM wrote: »
    EQ - God, that looks great.

    Small suggestion ... can you make it so when you mouse wheel over a spot to zoom in, the viewport zooms to that location instead of just towards the center? That would allow for quick inspection of models.

    I'll ask about this, I think with touch devices it more or less works that way anyway. Thanks for the feedback!
  • EarthQuake
    aelwine wrote: »
    Looking great, but I've probably a bug .
    All the models are flipped vertically (or at least rotated 180 degrees). I'm not sure if it's marmoset related though or some other setting or driver problem. I think I encountered the same problem with another web 3D viewer before.

    Whoa, thats a weird one. Can you tell me more about your system?

    What device?
    What OS?
    What GPU?
    What browser?

    Thanks!
  • Joopson
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    Joopson Polycount Sponsor
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    As Lee says, this is a more accurate representation of what your normals (mesh+normal map) actually look like, rather than simply showing the tangent space map, which is really normal data out of context, and looking at it doesn't tell you much. One of the biggest reasons we've gone with world space normals is that you see what the normals actually look like when applied to the model, and as we're showing the maps applied in 3d, tangent space maps would present "seams" and other artifacts like ugly gradients that are necessary to compensate for the lowpoly mesh normals and uv discontinuities, but do not actually show up in the end result.

    Also, you can shift+drag to "rotate" the world space normals, which is fun. :)
    One of the main benefits to this is it's far easier to diagnose bad normals in this view than it is displaying tangents only.


    Ah, makes sense!
  • aelwine
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    aelwine polycounter lvl 6
    PC on windows 7, GeForce GTX 650 Ti with the latest official nvidia drivers installed and Firefox, most likely the latest build. ( I would need to check once I'm back home)

    I just checked on my work PC, and it's working like a charm here, so no idea what the problem is at home.
  • EarthQuake
    Yeah thats super strange, can you try updating firefox to make sure its the latest build?
  • aelwine
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    aelwine polycounter lvl 6
    I'll check again at home and let you know.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD interpolator
    A few things, holding shift to move the light wasn't immediately apparent, I also shared the link with a bunch of people and there was some complaints about really poor performance, might want to try to have some sort of poor performance or system issues dectection to let the user know they aren't getting the correct experience, and what they can do to fix it.
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