Currently I am testing baking highpoly to lowpoly assets in Substance Designer. I wouldn't say its "slow," seems about on par with baking in xnormal, but not even close to the crazy speeds Knald is able to achieve. I can do some speed tests and report back with more details in the near future.
Hi @Jerc Got a question - I made a substance where the filtering mode of the fx map is exposed to the user (bilinear + mipmaps, bilinear, nearest), just like in the Tile Generator node. But when I compile that into a .sbsar, the parameter is gone! Tried compiling the tile generator too and the result is the same. Is there a reason for that? I'd like to have control over that but also benefit from the faster times of the .sbsar.
hi all, still have a problem with tri-planar mode and I think it's still not working properly... look at the screenshot, the position map is perfect, but while using tri-planar mode, pattern isn't applying uniformly over the mesh. it is the same on the UV scale 1. thanks!
and another problem I have everytime i'm baking curvature map, there is a nasty seam where UV seams are. padding, supersampling and all settings in curvature baker isn't helping to create smooth transition between border-corner-border. for now i'm baking in other program and it's perfect, but it will be super awesome if you guys can look into that problem... the workaround i'm using is blur the curvature map or blow up levels, but it's not a good way to solve it. thanks!
hi all, still have a problem with tri-planar mode and I think it's still not working properly... look at the screenshot, the position map is perfect, but while using tri-planar mode, pattern isn't applying uniformly over the mesh. it is the same on the UV scale 1. thanks!
There is a seam because triplanar projection requires some rounding at the edges in your world space normal map to be able to properly do the effect.
teho Try reducing the "details" setting. 1 is very high and will likely add artefacts that shouldn't be visible, usually you want the value to be between 0 and 0.5.
As for the Triplanar, as somedoggy pointed out, triplanar means the texture is projected on the x, y and z axis. If your object has 90 degrees angles, you will likely still have a seam but you can remove it using a paint layer with the clone tool.
teho Try reducing the "details" setting. 1 is very high and will likely add artefacts that shouldn't be visible, usually you want the value to be between 0 and 0.5.
As for the Triplanar, as somedoggy pointed out, triplanar means the texture is projected on the x, y and z axis. If your object has 90 degrees angles, you will likely still have a seam but you can remove it using a paint layer with the clone tool.
thanks guys for the help! with tri-planar understood, as I thought manual painting is a fix. but with curvature still with 0.5 setting there is a seam. you can check it with mesh I attached.
hi all, still have a problem with tri-planar mode and I think it's still not working properly... look at the screenshot, the position map is perfect, but while using tri-planar mode, pattern isn't applying uniformly over the mesh. it is the same on the UV scale 1. thanks!
There is a seam because triplanar projection requires some rounding at the edges in your world space normal map to be able to properly do the effect.
Your edge can be rounded, you still won't get a seamless result if your faces are perpendicular, that's just how Triplanar works. The only way to make this kind of shape totally seamless would be to use 3D noises, and we don't support those at the moment.
All the bakers but the high poly based ones are already GPU based and pretty much instantaneous. High poly based AO and Tangent Normal bakes are CPU based but multi threaded and should not take more than from a few seconds to a couple dozen seconds with really heavy meshes. Anti-aliasing will increase bake times substantially though. Do you experience slow bakes in SD or SP?
OK I have some speed tests between Knald, Substance Designer, and Painter.
Testing parameters: -Highpoly mesh = 665344 Triangles -Lowpoly mesh = 7172 Triangles -Baked with a cage
Computer hardware: Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.150316-1654) System Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. System Model: Z87X-OC Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.5GHz Memory: 16384MB RAM Available OS Memory: 16338MB RAM Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 Display Memory: 4095 MB Dedicated Memory: 3072 MB Shared Memory: 1023 MB
Maps Baked: Normal, AO, Height*, and Curvature * Painter does not have a height map option
Settings: -Knald: Version 1.1.2, 16xAA, 512 AO rays, @2048 -SD: Version 5.4, 8xAA*, 128 AO rays, @2048 *16xAA not available -SP: Version 2.2, 8xAA*, 128 AO rays, @2048 *16xAA not available -SD Scaled Settings: 4xAA, 64 AO rays, @1024
Thanks for these test results! I ended up doing some tests on my side and it turns out our AA method is destroying bake times. A 2k bake@128 samples with no AA will take 30 seconds while the same bake with a 4xAA will take 5 minutes + We'll investigate :]
Thanks for these test results! I ended up doing some tests on my side and it turns out our AA method is destroying bake times. A 2k bake@128 samples with no AA will take 30 seconds while the same bake with a 4xAA will take 5 minutes + We'll investigate :]
Ha weird.. we've seen this happening with 1070/1080 cards but the 372.54 drivers has fixed it on our test workstations and for other users who had the same issue.
In SD 5.5.0, I can't seem to be able to bake using the Match by Mesh Name option, it seem to consider all the meshes regardless, anyone else has the same issue ? Thanks !
I find the HSL range value isn't understandable compared to Photoshop. I work in Substance in parallel from Photoshop and I have to make a big mental gymnastics to report or match the values. (0/100%, -180/180° to Photoshop, 0/255, -0.5/0.5 to Substance)
When working with a normal bake with a skewed projection, the combined normal bake (normal+height+bake) in Painter 2.3.0 introduces artifacts into the exported map. The image on the left is the base normal map, and the one on the right is the resulting map despite no height or additional normal information being introduced into the project. Is there any explanation for what might be causing this issue?
This doesn't happen in older versions ? The math behind the combination of those channels didn't change. Would you be able to provide a texture to replicate the issue ?
Since the latest update of Painter 2, my steam version always starts with "this program did not seem to exit cleanly" and wanting to report so. Unless it's crashing silently on exit, this message is reoccurring for no reason. Any way to solve this? Reinstall? Verify the app cache in steam and it was all fine there. Any crash log that can be deleted, if that's what triggers this message?
And bonus question; I'm using Substance Designer trial and exporting a filter to SP2. Everything works fine, except the icon for the filter (that I assigned in Designer's attributes for the graph) shows the output of the graph (blank, as it's entirely based on input) instead of the icon supplied. Are there exact dimensions needed for icons? I checked the documentation and didn't find anything about this, but the word "icon" is used repeatedly in instructions, so I could've easily missed a relevant section.
If you have an AMD GPU, we are aware of multiple crash and instabilities. We are working on multiple fixes right now. In you case Substance Painter most probably crash on exit, and therefor opens the crash report window at the next launch.
We don't support icons integrated in a graph simply because this data is stripped out when you cook an sbsar. If you want a custom icon, you will have to add it in Substance Painter (right-click on the item in the shelf).
Thanks for the quick answers. Unfortunately I've just run into a significant problem (and a system lockup in sp2 just now), though this might be related to your first point — I've just opened an old (SP1) document in SP2, made some changes, and exported the texture at document resolution (4096x2048, which is confirmed in the export dialogue). However, only half each map has been exported; I get one 4096^4096 map for each exported channel, which represent the left square of the 2x1 texture.
If this is a new one I'll upload the .spp to dropbox and PM you a link.
We don't support icons integrated in a graph simply because this data is stripped out when you cook an sbsar.
What's the point of the "Icon" attribute in designer then? Is it just some legacy option or am I missing something? Seems a bit weird if I have to send a .sbsar from designer to painter, and then add the icon and export THAT .sbsar to share. Or would that strip it as well? How do others get custom icons for their generators/tools?
The export of non-square resolutions is broken in 2.3.0, it will be fixed in the next hotfix that we are working on.
For the icon, we use this property for regular sbs files located in the Substance Designer library. In the case of Substance Painter we used an alternative system since here we generate automatically the preview by default (something that Designer can't do).
Hi guys! Got a few small things: In SD, the Gaussian 2 node has some artifacts. Try plugging it into a normal map to see. The new non-square transform node has the same icon for both the color and grayscale versions. Also, would be cool to have a switch on the cartesian to polar coordinates to use nearest instead of bilinear - When putting a linear gradient through it to get an angle gradient, it smudges the border a bit.
Hello, a small suggestion for Substance Painter: folder support for the shelf. I have added a lot of textures in the shelf and it's a bit crazy going through thousands of textures. I've mass renamed things to have prefixes to help sort through them with the search. But a folder would be nice.
Sorry if I am missing something with this, I have only just started using Substance Painter.
Hello, a small suggestion for Substance Painter: folder support for the shelf. I have added a lot of textures in the shelf and it's a bit crazy going through thousands of textures. I've mass renamed things to have prefixes to help sort through them with the search. But a folder would be nice.
Sorry if I am missing something with this, I have only just started using Substance Painter.
The substance Designer Baker lack of ergonomy compared to Substance Painter. In Substance Painter Baker, you can select multiple Hi-Definition Meshes in only one action with the file dialogue.
The possibility to tweak parameters in Baker and save it whithout launching baking.
If I go from shaded view to single channel view, and cycle to the base colour, them switch back to shaded with m key, my project shows up wayyy glossier than it should be. Switching from any other single channel to shaded is fine. Switching to extra maps with b doesn't seem to produce this either. It doesn't happen in other projects that I've noticed, yet. If you need I can pm the project file + dxdiag.
Previously I've seen painter bug out and show way more gloss than normal when I try doing stuff while it's processing and nearly out of ram/vram, but this is the first time I've seen it do it under normal circumstances.
- Non-square transform greyscale has the same icon as the color version. Also, the "greyscale" spelling isn't consistent with the rest of the program which uses the "gray" with an A spelling. Not a big deal but maybe worth adding both spellings on the tags.
- Base Material node is a bit more expensive than it should be because of the BnW Spots inside of it, used as a grunge map. What I suggest is disabling the Bnw Spots when either the "Grunge Amount" is set to 0 or the Roughness User-Defined input is being used.
Hi folks! I'm having issues with the AO baking... Everything works fine except the areas where meshes touch or intersect, those are coming out white on the bakes. Due to texel density, the white bleeds out and I get 'shadow rings' around my geometry. Any tips on how to work around these? (This is a gold thing intersecting with the ground)
So i am having a problem where i can not connect to Substance Share or go on the forums at Allegorithmic. when i upgraded from substance painter 1 to 2 i lost a bunch of my materials and i was trying to re download them from Substance share but every time i try to log in it says incorrect password of Email. I know the email is right since it is my only one and i reset my password like 5 times now. Anyone know if this is a current problem and when it will be fixed?
Any word on support for inverting alphas/when applied as a stencil? I mentioned this in the other thread (http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2499620/#Comment_2499620 - did not see this thread!). Currently I've just duped and inverted my alpha library to get around this. But my shelf is now stacked pretty hefty because of this. The new shelf sorting stuff hasn't made this too bad. But still!
Also, while mentioning alphas, I've had to go through and correct all the aspect ratios for my alpha library. Any plans on maybe supporting non-1:1 ratio? Currently they'll just get stretched when using them as a stencil.
Lastly, I think it would be useful to allow for adding names to the 'modifiers' (sorry, not sure the of the proper name, when you add a Paint 'sub' layer to the layers)? Sometimes I can end up with a large stack of 'modifiers', and it can be tricky keeping on top of what is actually driving what. Attached an image because I have probably used the incorrect term.
Hi, After I painted height detail on my low poly mesh, I've exported normal
map(Direct X). Then I started new project with the same mesh, attach
exported normal maps and I've found capped regions in
Normal+Height+Base Normal view. P.S. Workflow like in the Scifi Crate Project tutorial by Allegorithmic. Similar thread on the Allegorithmic forum.
Preview of imported normal map(Baked Normal DirectX)
Same mesh, preview swithed to Solo. Caped regions appear
Hi guys, For some reason my .sbsar files are not populating the library properly even though I've added their paths to the preferences. They have no icons and I can only find them by searching by file name, not the graph name. Can't find them on the spacebar search menu. This is how it looks: Am I doing something wrong?
Replies
Got a question - I made a substance where the filtering mode of the fx map is exposed to the user (bilinear + mipmaps, bilinear, nearest), just like in the Tile Generator node. But when I compile that into a .sbsar, the parameter is gone! Tried compiling the tile generator too and the result is the same.
Is there a reason for that? I'd like to have control over that but also benefit from the faster times of the .sbsar.
padding, supersampling and all settings in curvature baker isn't helping to create smooth transition between border-corner-border. for now i'm baking in other program and it's perfect, but it will be super awesome if you guys can look into that problem...
the workaround i'm using is blur the curvature map or blow up levels, but it's not a good way to solve it.
thanks!
As for the Triplanar, as somedoggy pointed out, triplanar means the texture is projected on the x, y and z axis. If your object has 90 degrees angles, you will likely still have a seam but you can remove it using a paint layer with the clone tool.
Testing parameters:
-Highpoly mesh = 665344 Triangles
-Lowpoly mesh = 7172 Triangles
-Baked with a cage
Computer hardware:
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.150316-1654)
System Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model: Z87X-OC
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16338MB RAM
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
Display Memory: 4095 MB
Dedicated Memory: 3072 MB
Shared Memory: 1023 MB
Maps Baked: Normal, AO, Height*, and Curvature
* Painter does not have a height map option
Settings:
-Knald: Version 1.1.2, 16xAA, 512 AO rays, @2048
-SD: Version 5.4, 8xAA*, 128 AO rays, @2048
*16xAA not available
-SP: Version 2.2, 8xAA*, 128 AO rays, @2048
*16xAA not available
-SD Scaled Settings: 4xAA, 64 AO rays, @1024
Times:
-Knald: 00:30
-SD: 19:11
-SP: 17:22
-SD Scaled: 01:02
I think those numbers point out the speed difference. I don't think Substance is slow by any means, but Knald is just stupid dumb fast.
We'll investigate :]
Nvidia 1070 (372.54)
Windows 10 Anniversary Update
It usually looks like that for a few minutes and then after layers are changed around it goes away.
Thanks !
I work in Substance in parallel from Photoshop and I have to make a big mental gymnastics to report or match the values.
(0/100%, -180/180° to Photoshop, 0/255, -0.5/0.5 to Substance)
The math behind the combination of those channels didn't change. Would you be able to provide a texture to replicate the issue ?
And bonus question; I'm using Substance Designer trial and exporting a filter to SP2. Everything works fine, except the icon for the filter (that I assigned in Designer's attributes for the graph) shows the output of the graph (blank, as it's entirely based on input) instead of the icon supplied. Are there exact dimensions needed for icons? I checked the documentation and didn't find anything about this, but the word "icon" is used repeatedly in instructions, so I could've easily missed a relevant section.
We don't support icons integrated in a graph simply because this data is stripped out when you cook an sbsar. If you want a custom icon, you will have to add it in Substance Painter (right-click on the item in the shelf).
If this is a new one I'll upload the .spp to dropbox and PM you a link.
What's the point of the "Icon" attribute in designer then? Is it just some legacy option or am I missing something? Seems a bit weird if I have to send a .sbsar from designer to painter, and then add the icon and export THAT .sbsar to share. Or would that strip it as well? How do others get custom icons for their generators/tools?
For the icon, we use this property for regular sbs files located in the Substance Designer library. In the case of Substance Painter we used an alternative system since here we generate automatically the preview by default (something that Designer can't do).
In SD, the Gaussian 2 node has some artifacts. Try plugging it into a normal map to see.
The new non-square transform node has the same icon for both the color and grayscale versions.
Also, would be cool to have a switch on the cartesian to polar coordinates to use nearest instead of bilinear - When putting a linear gradient through it to get an angle gradient, it smudges the border a bit.
Sorry if I am missing something with this, I have only just started using Substance Painter.
Shelfs improvements are in progress.
The substance Designer Baker lack of ergonomy compared to Substance Painter.
In Substance Painter Baker, you can select multiple Hi-Definition Meshes in only one action with the file dialogue.
The possibility to tweak parameters in Baker and save it whithout launching baking.
Cheers.
If I go from shaded view to single channel view, and cycle to the base colour, them switch back to shaded with m key, my project shows up wayyy glossier than it should be. Switching from any other single channel to shaded is fine. Switching to extra maps with b doesn't seem to produce this either. It doesn't happen in other projects that I've noticed, yet. If you need I can pm the project file + dxdiag.
Previously I've seen painter bug out and show way more gloss than normal when I try doing stuff while it's processing and nearly out of ram/vram, but this is the first time I've seen it do it under normal circumstances.
- Non-square transform greyscale has the same icon as the color version. Also, the "greyscale" spelling isn't consistent with the rest of the program which uses the "gray" with an A spelling. Not a big deal but maybe worth adding both spellings on the tags.
- Base Material node is a bit more expensive than it should be because of the BnW Spots inside of it, used as a grunge map. What I suggest is disabling the Bnw Spots when either the "Grunge Amount" is set to 0 or the Roughness User-Defined input is being used.
Thanks!
Everything works fine except the areas where meshes touch or intersect, those are coming out white on the bakes. Due to texel density, the white bleeds out and I get 'shadow rings' around my geometry. Any tips on how to work around these?
(This is a gold thing intersecting with the ground)
Any word on support for inverting alphas/when applied as a stencil? I mentioned this in the other thread (http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2499620/#Comment_2499620 - did not see this thread!). Currently I've just duped and inverted my alpha library to get around this. But my shelf is now stacked pretty hefty because of this. The new shelf sorting stuff hasn't made this too bad. But still!
Also, while mentioning alphas, I've had to go through and correct all the aspect ratios for my alpha library. Any plans on maybe supporting non-1:1 ratio? Currently they'll just get stretched when using them as a stencil.
Lastly, I think it would be useful to allow for adding names to the 'modifiers' (sorry, not sure the of the proper name, when you add a Paint 'sub' layer to the layers)? Sometimes I can end up with a large stack of 'modifiers', and it can be tricky keeping on top of what is actually driving what. Attached an image because I have probably used the incorrect term.
Thanks
Run fine in Substance Designer.
(It may be already written above in the thread)
After I painted height detail on my low poly mesh, I've exported normal map(Direct X). Then I started new project with the same mesh, attach exported normal maps and I've found capped regions in Normal+Height+Base Normal view.
P.S. Workflow like in the Scifi Crate Project tutorial by Allegorithmic. Similar thread on the Allegorithmic forum.
Preview of imported normal map(Baked Normal DirectX)
Same mesh, preview swithed to Solo. Caped regions appear
For some reason my .sbsar files are not populating the library properly even though I've added their paths to the preferences.
They have no icons and I can only find them by searching by file name, not the graph name. Can't find them on the spacebar search menu.
This is how it looks:
Am I doing something wrong?