Wasn't to time consuming to complete but was a little busy.
M.Peterson: I found that image aswell I just stuck with the one Commandor posted, but even that one is easier it merges together the same *simply moving around a curve will get you your results for both*
Lol I thought it was very strange that it split into 3 at the end (would be a funny exhaust throwing out 3 smokes) I saw where the bottom pipe connected through thought that was separate the whole way.
I saw that black reflection in the middle as the divider, being the area covered in shadow *should get my eyes checked*
Only problem that I'm having is the functionality of it. I'd understand the hook if it was used in weighing fish; like tuna and swordfish. However then the you would extend your arms reallllllly far and most likely not be able to even control it unless standing on the back of a truck. The other problem is that it only goes up and down. I've seen some that go up and down but there is no hook, its purely for control of a crane and not to lift anything.
Good point never though about how useful it would be, will be making this tommorow shouldn't take me to long and do a quick material pass. I will then tackle more on the helmet, a little busy at the moment trying to finish a few things
Nice work guys. Everything looks really good. SsSandu_C, the only critique I can offer you is the silver front plat where the screws attach it to the main body should be angled.
Spent a little extra time cleaning up my topology, overall this was a very entertaining to make. It wasn't hard of a model but did take me a bit of time to complete.
Will add materials and give it some color shortly
Commandor: Great job as usual, you seem to have miss that L shaped box extrusion. The way you did it looks a little off how it blend into the body. *I highlighted the area in this image below*
SsSandu_C: Overall looks good some of the edges are a little tight giving off a slight boxy appeal.
Livewire: Great job looking very good, nice to see you took Assassinaded critique of the concept and went elsewhere of its purpose.
Harford: You almost got it done, the center piece is missing a little detail but overall looks like you accomplished the door
Overall glad to see more life in the thread got a little lonely all by my lonesome.
I was chatting to my friend Scott Homer(TM) about 5 days ago and he pointed me to this weekly hard surface challenge, we discussed it would be cool to give it a go and somehow got on to the topic of zbrush vs max.
So in the interest of science we agreed to record/track our time on the creation of the asset to see what method would be the faster. Not to race each other but to see what differences there would be between the two packages time wise. I volunteered to do the Zbrush model and Scott agreed to do the max one. Anyways here is my model completely created in Zbrush, took about 5 1/2 hrs (this time includes various mistakes, a few crashes and design changes I decided to make during the process.)
I recorded the whole 5 1/2 hrs, so if people are interested (and I can find the time) I might try to put together a "tutorial".
As you can see I changed some of the design slightly, mainly because I was enjoying experimenting and I felt that a more angular hook could work with the boxy body shapes. Also as far as a perfectly smooth model goes there are a few areas that could do with a bit of tidy up. :poly122:
Coridium your image isn't showing up, I personally use imgur.com to post my images.
Nice idea you guy have, I know Airship streamed the door on his twitch channel haven't had the chance to watch it yet *believe he used 3ds max*. I personally have been using Maya for all my submission, in the end what ever tool you enjoy the most will yield similar results in either programs
Yes it working, dont see much wrong with it except a few minor things compared to the concept
The hook is a little more rounded instead of flat, the main reason for this is so when you place a item/object it doesn't slide right off through movement. With a slight forward and backwards movement it will more than likely slide right off
Yours is also slightly longer but perfect width than in the concept. I love the added detail looks very nice, I see a few areas like the corners of the control button box that I had missed
Thanks for the comments,your point about the hook is an oversite on my part, tbh was just having fun with the design at that point and probably should have thought more about what I was actually doing to the functionality. :poly136: maybe its for hooking... erm... canvas thickish straps of cargo shipments. lol
Coridium, that is smexy. I would be interested in that workflow indeed.
Although, not to change the subject, but my only opposition to learning a zbrush workflow is iteration. The only reason I bring this up is because I'm interested to see if I could easily be proven wrong.
For example, If I had this modeled in sub-d, and a client, or director came up and said something like, "hey nice work, but take off the bolts on the hook, and could you make the ridges along the body thicker?" I could easily delete, push and pull a few verts, delete/add floaters, depending on what it is she/he is looking for. It would be a sinch to edit this fairly freely with my current workflow.
In my head the two simple changes said art director wanted, seem like they would be a pain in zbrush (with my current knowledge)
that max/zbrush comparison is interesting. so , how long did your friend take to make his?
i consider myself preety fast in hard surface modelling , but making that in max in 5 hours would be cutting it close. in my mind though, the subd will always be better than a zbrushed one, more economical on polygons, and having a better edge flow will result in better reflections... that's my opinion at least.
Took me around 7 hours and 22 minutes, I could go back in and do some touch ups but still need to add a few materials which am going to once I finish week 18 so roughly 8 hours. Since it made up of 3 pieces I changed around my topology on each piece I am also modeled more based on my topology as I went along.
For the max model did you both create the exact same piece or did you find the extra time in yours to create the added detail. Such as the screw whole placed around which is time consuming in Maya/Max there also a few other area like the back with more detail.
Area such as those I see zbrush being best to add, even without the added detail it surely faster than me.
Stockwell, MooseCommander - Thanks for the tut support, I will try to find the time to throw a video together.
I don't want to sidetrack this thread so I will keep this quick...
Stockwell - I believe you are correct, somethings definitely would take a bit longer to fix if asked to change the design in zbrush but there are also things that are much faster to change than doing it in Max, really prepends on the change. The two changes that you mentioned in your example would most likely be super quick in zbrush (I will try to do it if I find time and report back)
Aga22 - I was not really suggesting replacing Sub-D, I normally work with a bit of both trying to utilise the features of each program for speed. There are a bunch of disadvantages to using Zbrush over sub-d...
Surfaces can sometimes be a bit wobbly/imperfect (as you mentioned) - this can sometimes be an advantage however as often products are not 100% perfect when you closely study them but obviously for machined parts this is less likely.
Polycounts are super high - This causes rendering to take longer but in zbrush working with these high polycounts is super fast so the main issue is when it gets to baking/rendering. Something to consider however, is that often people work in max to get a base High poly then export to zbrush to do a damage pass, this often creates a much higher polycount and negates the poly issue. (depends on the task of course)
Large objects - There is kind of a limit to the size of object that you can create in zbrush with micro detail as it would require a massive polycount but I guess that is the same for both packages however. Also if you make a large object and its for games then the detail is going to be determined by your texture size so doing micro detail might be a waste of time anyway.
Close up shots - unlike sub-d zbrush is not great for very close up shots as it requires the polys to be there, where as sub-d can be adapted to the purpose.
Base mesh - if you fully create the asset in zbrush there is no base mesh for the low poly, obviously this can add a bit of time but its debatable how much time is saved using the lowest mesh of a sub-d mesh but there is definitely a bit of time saved. Again if you did a hybrid approach then it would remove this issue.
File sizes - Depending on the polycount files can get pretty big.
There are more disadvantages than this but the main advantage however is its fast and free. I think if you are designing the asset with no concept and creating the high poly at the same time, Zbrush really excels over many other options. Also the GoZ features are very nice if you decide to go down a hybrid approach (which is probably the fastest option). It really comes down to the purpose of the asset, if its going to be baked to a low poly then the issue of prefect surfaces is less likely to be a problem and the polycount is only really an issue for rendering and you can be doing something else while its rendering if its taking to long.
Took me longer than Week 17, went in and added the extra detail (been so busy making the weekly havent been able to start learning to texture). Can't wait for Week 19
I was chatting to my friend Scott Homer(TM) about 5 days ago and he pointed me to this weekly hard surface challenge, we discussed it would be cool to give it a go and somehow got on to the topic of zbrush vs max.
So in the interest of science we agreed to record/track our time on the creation of the asset to see what method would be the faster. Not to race each other but to see what differences there would be between the two packages time wise. I volunteered to do the Zbrush model and Scott agreed to do the max one. Anyways here is my model completely created in Zbrush, took about 5 1/2 hrs (this time includes various mistakes, a few crashes and design changes I decided to make during the process.)
I recorded the whole 5 1/2 hrs, so if people are interested (and I can find the time) I might try to put together a "tutorial".
As you can see I changed some of the design slightly, mainly because I was enjoying experimenting and I felt that a more angular hook could work with the boxy body shapes. Also as far as a perfectly smooth model goes there are a few areas that could do with a bit of tidy up. :poly122:
Would love to hear what you think.
Cheers,
Chris
Okay, so I finally found time to do my half of the challenge! Polymodelled from scratch purely in max, it took nearly 14.5 hours in total. I tried to stick closer to concept, although I did deviate and elaborate in some places.. Following the concept religiously adds significantly to the time it takes to model an object like this I found, realistically in a production environment I would probably simplify the shape in order to cut down on the laborious poly-pushing to get things to smooth correctly.
I think we've come to an agreement that a hybrid of both techniques would probably yield the best results. If I were to do something like this again I would probably model the base mesh in max then add the cuts etc in Zbrush to cut down on the overall time.
Hi Everyone, just found this thread today and look forward to taking part in the challenges. I attempted this one a while ago, not sure how long I spent on the model but thought I'd post anyway. I will post a link to the wireframe soon.
Commandor: Loving the texture work, cant wait till I can texture as good as you
SsSandu_C: Looks nice dont see anything wrong with it, your wires are clean. Great job
Ficomet: Love the texture, although the font is a little big, the bottom area is a little off from the concept. Your cap is made up of 10 slabs/sides when it should be 14
JamesArk: Clean wires and pleasing result, the handle is a little thin
AdvisableRobin: The very bottom piece is correct, but the same shape above it is a little to wide, it snugs more closely to the bottom piece. The top which what looks like the cap to open by twisting which has the sides/slabs extruded area, you have 10 it actually 14 extrusions. The black thing right above the cap is also narrower *Overall add a little extra topology to this even Sub-D it at the moment it a little to low poly and most of the shape is coming out boxy*
Sleepy: Nice job
Scotthomer: Man that looks impressive. Your topology looks amazing!, your my new found inspiration of what to aim for
Replies
Wires:http://oi57.tinypic.com/10zwi7k.jpg
Perhaps also another image to use as reference:
I think guys who use meshfusion will make this helmet pretty fast ...
Wires
Wasn't to time consuming to complete but was a little busy.
M.Peterson: I found that image aswell I just stuck with the one Commandor posted, but even that one is easier it merges together the same *simply moving around a curve will get you your results for both*
I saw that black reflection in the middle as the divider, being the area covered in shadow *should get my eyes checked*
Sshh Aga22 *this never happened sigh*
Helmet WIP just 2 hours of work
I see errors which need addressed, but I'll get those after I get the rest of the big forms done.
Only problem that I'm having is the functionality of it. I'd understand the hook if it was used in weighing fish; like tuna and swordfish. However then the you would extend your arms reallllllly far and most likely not be able to even control it unless standing on the back of a truck. The other problem is that it only goes up and down. I've seen some that go up and down but there is no hook, its purely for control of a crane and not to lift anything.
Wires
forged with NVIL
wires
Stayed tuned for week 18!
Just need that hook part and add support edges for harder surface
Wire
Spent a little extra time cleaning up my topology, overall this was a very entertaining to make. It wasn't hard of a model but did take me a bit of time to complete.
Will add materials and give it some color shortly
Commandor: Great job as usual, you seem to have miss that L shaped box extrusion. The way you did it looks a little off how it blend into the body. *I highlighted the area in this image below*
SsSandu_C: Overall looks good some of the edges are a little tight giving off a slight boxy appeal.
Livewire: Great job looking very good, nice to see you took Assassinaded critique of the concept and went elsewhere of its purpose.
Harford: You almost got it done, the center piece is missing a little detail but overall looks like you accomplished the door
Overall glad to see more life in the thread got a little lonely all by my lonesome.
c&c are most welcome.
I was chatting to my friend Scott Homer(TM) about 5 days ago and he pointed me to this weekly hard surface challenge, we discussed it would be cool to give it a go and somehow got on to the topic of zbrush vs max.
So in the interest of science we agreed to record/track our time on the creation of the asset to see what method would be the faster. Not to race each other but to see what differences there would be between the two packages time wise. I volunteered to do the Zbrush model and Scott agreed to do the max one. Anyways here is my model completely created in Zbrush, took about 5 1/2 hrs (this time includes various mistakes, a few crashes and design changes I decided to make during the process.)
I recorded the whole 5 1/2 hrs, so if people are interested (and I can find the time) I might try to put together a "tutorial".
As you can see I changed some of the design slightly, mainly because I was enjoying experimenting and I felt that a more angular hook could work with the boxy body shapes. Also as far as a perfectly smooth model goes there are a few areas that could do with a bit of tidy up. :poly122:
Would love to hear what you think.
Cheers,
Chris
Nice idea you guy have, I know Airship streamed the door on his twitch channel haven't had the chance to watch it yet *believe he used 3ds max*. I personally have been using Maya for all my submission, in the end what ever tool you enjoy the most will yield similar results in either programs
Thanks for letting me know, is that working now? (I will check out the stream also thanks)
The hook is a little more rounded instead of flat, the main reason for this is so when you place a item/object it doesn't slide right off through movement. With a slight forward and backwards movement it will more than likely slide right off
Yours is also slightly longer but perfect width than in the concept. I love the added detail looks very nice, I see a few areas like the corners of the control button box that I had missed
Nice profolio btw
Although, not to change the subject, but my only opposition to learning a zbrush workflow is iteration. The only reason I bring this up is because I'm interested to see if I could easily be proven wrong.
For example, If I had this modeled in sub-d, and a client, or director came up and said something like, "hey nice work, but take off the bolts on the hook, and could you make the ridges along the body thicker?" I could easily delete, push and pull a few verts, delete/add floaters, depending on what it is she/he is looking for. It would be a sinch to edit this fairly freely with my current workflow.
In my head the two simple changes said art director wanted, seem like they would be a pain in zbrush (with my current knowledge)
How would you go about that?
i consider myself preety fast in hard surface modelling , but making that in max in 5 hours would be cutting it close. in my mind though, the subd will always be better than a zbrushed one, more economical on polygons, and having a better edge flow will result in better reflections... that's my opinion at least.
For the max model did you both create the exact same piece or did you find the extra time in yours to create the added detail. Such as the screw whole placed around which is time consuming in Maya/Max there also a few other area like the back with more detail.
Area such as those I see zbrush being best to add, even without the added detail it surely faster than me.
I don't want to sidetrack this thread so I will keep this quick...
Stockwell - I believe you are correct, somethings definitely would take a bit longer to fix if asked to change the design in zbrush but there are also things that are much faster to change than doing it in Max, really prepends on the change. The two changes that you mentioned in your example would most likely be super quick in zbrush (I will try to do it if I find time and report back)
Aga22 - I was not really suggesting replacing Sub-D, I normally work with a bit of both trying to utilise the features of each program for speed. There are a bunch of disadvantages to using Zbrush over sub-d...
Surfaces can sometimes be a bit wobbly/imperfect (as you mentioned) - this can sometimes be an advantage however as often products are not 100% perfect when you closely study them but obviously for machined parts this is less likely.
Polycounts are super high - This causes rendering to take longer but in zbrush working with these high polycounts is super fast so the main issue is when it gets to baking/rendering. Something to consider however, is that often people work in max to get a base High poly then export to zbrush to do a damage pass, this often creates a much higher polycount and negates the poly issue. (depends on the task of course)
Large objects - There is kind of a limit to the size of object that you can create in zbrush with micro detail as it would require a massive polycount but I guess that is the same for both packages however. Also if you make a large object and its for games then the detail is going to be determined by your texture size so doing micro detail might be a waste of time anyway.
Close up shots - unlike sub-d zbrush is not great for very close up shots as it requires the polys to be there, where as sub-d can be adapted to the purpose.
Base mesh - if you fully create the asset in zbrush there is no base mesh for the low poly, obviously this can add a bit of time but its debatable how much time is saved using the lowest mesh of a sub-d mesh but there is definitely a bit of time saved. Again if you did a hybrid approach then it would remove this issue.
File sizes - Depending on the polycount files can get pretty big.
There are more disadvantages than this but the main advantage however is its fast and free. I think if you are designing the asset with no concept and creating the high poly at the same time, Zbrush really excels over many other options. Also the GoZ features are very nice if you decide to go down a hybrid approach (which is probably the fastest option). It really comes down to the purpose of the asset, if its going to be baked to a low poly then the issue of prefect surfaces is less likely to be a problem and the polycount is only really an issue for rendering and you can be doing something else while its rendering if its taking to long.
Cheers,
Chris
WIP of the door most of it in place just need to tackle the central piece. Went into the smallest of details on this one for the added practice.
Thanks for the post Coridum, you should get in contact with your Max friend really want to compare both the models :poly121:
Harford: Good start. This is something you could eventually come back to to finish. At the point where you are now, it wouldn't take much.
Goltas: Same. Good start, now take it further and make it awesome.
James: Texture that and make it great.
Coridium: Fantastic! I would love to see what you would do with textures on that.
Heres a quick WIP of this week. I'll finish the details tomorrow and fix some issues I've noticed after grabbing the image.
Quick Light Render
Wires
Took me longer than Week 17, went in and added the extra detail (been so busy making the weekly havent been able to start learning to texture). Can't wait for Week 19
Wires
WIP, will post comments on others once I finish
Okay, so I finally found time to do my half of the challenge! Polymodelled from scratch purely in max, it took nearly 14.5 hours in total. I tried to stick closer to concept, although I did deviate and elaborate in some places.. Following the concept religiously adds significantly to the time it takes to model an object like this I found, realistically in a production environment I would probably simplify the shape in order to cut down on the laborious poly-pushing to get things to smooth correctly.
I think we've come to an agreement that a hybrid of both techniques would probably yield the best results. If I were to do something like this again I would probably model the base mesh in max then add the cuts etc in Zbrush to cut down on the overall time.
Any C&C would be appreciated!
Cheers,
Scott.
As requested
Beauty Shot:
Wires:
Wires
SsSandu_C: Looks nice dont see anything wrong with it, your wires are clean. Great job
Ficomet: Love the texture, although the font is a little big, the bottom area is a little off from the concept. Your cap is made up of 10 slabs/sides when it should be 14
JamesArk: Clean wires and pleasing result, the handle is a little thin
AdvisableRobin: The very bottom piece is correct, but the same shape above it is a little to wide, it snugs more closely to the bottom piece. The top which what looks like the cap to open by twisting which has the sides/slabs extruded area, you have 10 it actually 14 extrusions. The black thing right above the cap is also narrower *Overall add a little extra topology to this even Sub-D it at the moment it a little to low poly and most of the shape is coming out boxy*
Sleepy: Nice job
Scotthomer: Man that looks impressive. Your topology looks amazing!, your my new found inspiration of what to aim for
Wires