Hmm Marina Del Ray, too far for me at least. Even living in LA thats over an hour drive, possibly more, given our traffic. Hopefully any highlights can find their way on the interwebs.
Now I'd only have to use a VM or wine for xNormal, handplane, knald..
The only immediate benefits I can think of for photoshop is nDo. Quick, someone make a nDo clone for Krita.
You don't need most of those when you properly use Designer. It does pretty good bakes, the UI is way better than Xnormal and it's integrated with the texturing, it's basically one-click to rebake and see the result in your final texture.
And it's weird you feel you need nDo, Designer + Painter should be a much better texturing solution than nDo can ever be. You can do everything and more that nDo does in Designer already if you're a bit skilled technically. And it's going to be way faster and completely non-destructive. A much more elegant solution really.
I wouldn't say I need nDo but it's handy to have; mostly for quick stuff (like adding text or bolts that you didn't add in the highpoly).
I don't know much about Substance Designer; that's interesting that it can bake though. Can you choose the tangent basis it uses? I'll give it a quick google. And I just missed the steam sale too—although if the steam version of modo is any sign, the foundry might improve modo's baking sometime in the near future.
Also I just remembered Toolbag 2 is win/mac only; I wonder how that would perform in a VM. Still, this is exciting stuff. I suppose an alternative (if you're desperate for marmoset tech) could be skyshop in unity. That'd definitely be something for level designers to consider (although iirc marmoset's shaders don't support vertex painting?).
The whole art department at my job crowded around my screen when I was playing the preview video earlier. This could be a hit , and I'm very excited to see a 3D painting app that tries to push the boundaries of what people expect from such apps.
With that said, there's a number of things that could get in the way of its success that other 3D painting apps have botched:
--Price
--symmetry painting (axis and topological)
--non-square texture support
--hardware support (dual monitors, NVidia and AMD consumer GPUs, off-brand tablets like Monoprice)
--scene management (hide/isolate/mask single or groups of objects/elements/uv-shells)
--PSD support with layer groups and masks
If you guys over at Allegorithmic can get those things right, and the tools are as good as that video makes them look, nothing out there will be able to compete with you.
--Price
--symmetry painting (axis and topological)
--non-square texture support
--hardware support (dual monitors, NVidia and AMD consumer GPUs, off-brand tablets like Monoprice)
--scene management (hide/isolate/mask single or groups of objects/elements/uv-shells)
--PSD support with layer groups and masks
I can't talk about the price yet, although I can already tell you it won't be in the Mari price range
Symmetry: Check.
Non square textures: Check.
Hardware support: We will need to run tests with non-wacom tablets to make sure everything works fine, but when it comes to GPU it works fine on my laptop with Win 8.1 drivers from NVidia, so we pretty much tackled the worst case scenario
Scene management: We will give more details later on but our goal is to give you a lot of different ways of masking and isolating parts of your mesh.
PSD support, as stated earlier in the thread, it's not something we have been working on, but there is no reason we could not add that.
We will announce more detail about the beta further down the line. We have a small scale closed beta starting next week, but we plan to expand it in 2 months or so.
Ah hell yes! I've been thinking about something like this for a long time, ever since I first saw Substance 2 at GDC a few years back. I looked into using Houdini for something like this, but this looks much more accessible and probably more useful since it's specialized for it.
Can't wait!
Precision painting is what photoshop does much better than existing 3d painting apps.
If you guys manage to add some tools to accurately place rivets, seams, splines over 3d model that would be really killer feature.
That is intensely awesome! I don't know why but I always love watching vertices move in space based on different algorithms and watching their outcomes when rendered.. or in this case painted.
at about 0:35, is that like... "weathering" the entire object?
Yes but the effect is very subtle, I could have increased the opacity a bit and the parameter that controls how much of an edge you need to actually spawn drips.
I love how it literally looks like sorcery. Fairy dust flying around magically texturing your stuff.
So this question may seem stupid, and I gotta ask cause I haven't seen it in the videos, but I assume you'd be able to do just straight-up B&W painting? Like to mask certain regions and whatnot. That was a major problem for me with Substance up until now. That I needed to mask off an area, and had to use Photoshop just to paint the mask.
Yes but the effect is very subtle, I could have increased the opacity a bit and the parameter that controls how much of an edge you need to actually spawn drips.
yeah that's what i took from it. i just loved how simple it seems.
Maybe I am a bit wrong about what you mean, but you can do a lot of very good effects using curvature maps, position maps, world space normal maps and so on. And you can bake those maps directly in the Designer.
Designer only deals with 2d noises and effects. Generating complex 3d noises in real time is just too expensive for current hardware. The noises used in substance are far more complex than Perlin noise and we need to be able to generate those substances at run-time inside a game engine.
We have some research projects going on to work around these limitations and provide seamless 3d mapping but no ETA on those.
And as Xazas said, you can bake all sorts of maps that help you get consistent model-wide effects withtout the need of 3d noises.
Substance Painter is a real 3d paint tool though so you can easily removes seams caused by the substance generation in SD.
They could be, but to be honest, our noise generation system was built with 2d noises and speed in mind from the start. Creating 3d noises would require us to rewrite quite a big part of the tech from scratch.
I've been looking at Substance Designer lately. I was going to install the trial when I read that all the effects are 2D.. is that correct? I mean, no volumetric driven generators (perlin, edge detection in 3d, blurring in 3d, etc...)? I dismissed the whole software completely until I saw Painter, as it indicates more 3D effects, and it would make sense that Designer has 3D filters/generators too. Can anyone correct/update me on this?
Jerc had answered the technicalities, but allow me to add that the 2D nature of things shouldn't turn you off, I very rarely feel this is a limitation. I'm sure you'll agree that with proper UV'ing, seams should not be much of a problem. Plus it's not like you apply a noise uniformly over a texture, it works best when combined with painted masks.
And I'm wishing the second video would load the crappy airport Wi-Fi here...
about the psd output support, i do understand that SD doesn't work the same way, but wouldn't it be possible to bake the parts that are not compatible? We do need to send clients PSDs as well in the end, i doubt we can talk many clients to swtch from the well established Photoshop to substance anytime soon
applied for the beta, damn this looks sweet.
about the psd output support, i do understand that SD doesn't work the same way, but wouldn't it be possible to bake the parts that are not compatible? We do need to send clients PSDs as well in the end, i doubt we can talk many clients to swtch from the well established Photoshop to substance anytime soon
It depends which client
Creating a PSD out of Designer is a complex task that would need a lot of thinking to make sure we get it right and the final PSD has enough information in it without being too cluttered. As things can branch in and out multiples times in a graph, it would very rapidly create a huge PSD file. The easiest implementation we could do would be to simply export the outputs as layers ina single PSD but that means the whole process would be collapsed.
It depends which client
Creating a PSD out of Designer is a complex task that would need a lot of thinking to make sure we get it right and the final PSD has enough information in it without being too cluttered. As things can branch in and out multiples times in a graph, it would very rapidly create a huge PSD file. The easiest implementation we could do would be to simply export the outputs as layers ina single PSD but that means the whole process would be collapsed.
exactly this would be a huge step, we have a fair bit of our texturing workflow automated by now, the psds are already pretty big because of this, this is really not an issue. If you are interested, i could show you how these maps look like.
My client right now is ubisoft, we produced roughly 140 characters with up to 16 artists for them and PSDs are mandatory i'm afraid. Using new workflows is great and i see big potential in SD but it needs to integrate into existing pipelines before it can take over, the bigger the company the more true this becomes.
I can change our workflows in a heartbeat, but i do not work for myself.
There are parts of our workflow i could see beeing entirely automated with SD and i would love to use it, but i also can't use blender because my clients want max or maya files for various reasons.
Indeed I would be interested to see how those PSD look like. It will give me a better idea of what would be needed exactly for a substance file to psd export.
Indeed I would be interested to see how those PSD look like. It will give me a better idea of what would be needed exactly for a substance file to psd export.
What if you just had a node like export as layer that someone can place within a chain and it builds the psd's out of the output in those nodes.
yeah that was my idea as well, a merge node or a state in a node you can toggle, which you can place before the simple math like add, multiply, blend etc. So the procedural noises can be baked down on export.
Had a chance to see the pre-alpha of Substance Painter in action tonight. Sebastien and Jerc (Jeremy) were able to show it off a bit and answer some basic Q&A.
In short, Substance Painter is beyond impressive and it is a game changer. You have every reason to be excited about it.
Something that wasn't clear to me so far: Is this going to come with pre-made particle brushes, or are we going to be able to make our own particle brushes (basically make our own presets, I guess?)
I'm assuming we'll be able to make our own but that process is difficult to imagine for me. Not that different than making brushes for Photoshop I guess...just much different parameter types for the particles...?
Something that wasn't clear to me so far: Is this going to come with pre-made particle brushes, or are we going to be able to make our own particle brushes (basically make our own presets, I guess?)
I'm assuming we'll be able to make our own but that process is difficult to imagine for me. Not that different than making brushes for Photoshop I guess...just much different parameter types for the particles...?
Both. They have their own presets, which you can tweak, you can make your own off those presets by changing the behavior via sliders, or you can actually script new ones entirely. They licensed something called Popcorn FX http://www.popcornfx.com/
so their method for creating particle behavior is what can be used in SPainter.
Had a chance to see the pre-alpha of Substance Painter in action tonight [...] In short, Substance Painter is beyond impressive and it is a game changer. You have every reason to be excited about it.
Good to hear; I am quite excited about this program. Here's hoping the beta rolls around soon (and by extension, has me in it).
Replies
You don't need most of those when you properly use Designer. It does pretty good bakes, the UI is way better than Xnormal and it's integrated with the texturing, it's basically one-click to rebake and see the result in your final texture.
And it's weird you feel you need nDo, Designer + Painter should be a much better texturing solution than nDo can ever be. You can do everything and more that nDo does in Designer already if you're a bit skilled technically. And it's going to be way faster and completely non-destructive. A much more elegant solution really.
I don't know much about Substance Designer; that's interesting that it can bake though. Can you choose the tangent basis it uses? I'll give it a quick google. And I just missed the steam sale too—although if the steam version of modo is any sign, the foundry might improve modo's baking sometime in the near future.
Also I just remembered Toolbag 2 is win/mac only; I wonder how that would perform in a VM. Still, this is exciting stuff. I suppose an alternative (if you're desperate for marmoset tech) could be skyshop in unity. That'd definitely be something for level designers to consider (although iirc marmoset's shaders don't support vertex painting?).
Seriously, awesome stuff!
With that said, there's a number of things that could get in the way of its success that other 3D painting apps have botched:
--Price
--symmetry painting (axis and topological)
--non-square texture support
--hardware support (dual monitors, NVidia and AMD consumer GPUs, off-brand tablets like Monoprice)
--scene management (hide/isolate/mask single or groups of objects/elements/uv-shells)
--PSD support with layer groups and masks
If you guys over at Allegorithmic can get those things right, and the tools are as good as that video makes them look, nothing out there will be able to compete with you.
I can't talk about the price yet, although I can already tell you it won't be in the Mari price range
Symmetry: Check.
Non square textures: Check.
Hardware support: We will need to run tests with non-wacom tablets to make sure everything works fine, but when it comes to GPU it works fine on my laptop with Win 8.1 drivers from NVidia, so we pretty much tackled the worst case scenario
Scene management: We will give more details later on but our goal is to give you a lot of different ways of masking and isolating parts of your mesh.
PSD support, as stated earlier in the thread, it's not something we have been working on, but there is no reason we could not add that.
We will announce more detail about the beta further down the line. We have a small scale closed beta starting next week, but we plan to expand it in 2 months or so.
Go to the bottom of any page on allegorithmic.com. Just above the footer there's the word NEWSLETTER in all caps.
Can't wait!
If you guys manage to add some tools to accurately place rivets, seams, splines over 3d model that would be really killer feature.
Sorry, I must have been temporarily blinded by the awesome.
edit: updated the video with the actual substance texture for the mesh, looks much better
[ame="
So this question may seem stupid, and I gotta ask cause I haven't seen it in the videos, but I assume you'd be able to do just straight-up B&W painting? Like to mask certain regions and whatnot. That was a major problem for me with Substance up until now. That I needed to mask off an area, and had to use Photoshop just to paint the mask.
yeah that's what i took from it. i just loved how simple it seems.
We have some research projects going on to work around these limitations and provide seamless 3d mapping but no ETA on those.
And as Xazas said, you can bake all sorts of maps that help you get consistent model-wide effects withtout the need of 3d noises.
Substance Painter is a real 3d paint tool though so you can easily removes seams caused by the substance generation in SD.
http://youtu.be/UKDZg0ntceA
Jerc had answered the technicalities, but allow me to add that the 2D nature of things shouldn't turn you off, I very rarely feel this is a limitation. I'm sure you'll agree that with proper UV'ing, seams should not be much of a problem. Plus it's not like you apply a noise uniformly over a texture, it works best when combined with painted masks.
And I'm wishing the second video would load the crappy airport Wi-Fi here...
:poly115:
omg.
I want it. Last year!
If it is going to be released on linux, the only thing that will keep me on windows, are sdk for engines.
PS will no longer have any uses ;o.
about the psd output support, i do understand that SD doesn't work the same way, but wouldn't it be possible to bake the parts that are not compatible? We do need to send clients PSDs as well in the end, i doubt we can talk many clients to swtch from the well established Photoshop to substance anytime soon
It depends which client
Creating a PSD out of Designer is a complex task that would need a lot of thinking to make sure we get it right and the final PSD has enough information in it without being too cluttered. As things can branch in and out multiples times in a graph, it would very rapidly create a huge PSD file. The easiest implementation we could do would be to simply export the outputs as layers ina single PSD but that means the whole process would be collapsed.
in this last video there's a steam popup, "Manwalking is now playing Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed..."
PSDs are a must for all my clients. All of them want to have control over the different layers if they need to do some changes.
Can we work with a few 4k maps at once?
exactly this would be a huge step, we have a fair bit of our texturing workflow automated by now, the psds are already pretty big because of this, this is really not an issue. If you are interested, i could show you how these maps look like.
My client right now is ubisoft, we produced roughly 140 characters with up to 16 artists for them and PSDs are mandatory i'm afraid. Using new workflows is great and i see big potential in SD but it needs to integrate into existing pipelines before it can take over, the bigger the company the more true this becomes.
I can change our workflows in a heartbeat, but i do not work for myself.
There are parts of our workflow i could see beeing entirely automated with SD and i would love to use it, but i also can't use blender because my clients want max or maya files for various reasons.
i feel like my computer wont survive the awesomeness
time for a new computer
The PSDs that come out from dDo are pretty neat!
yeah that was my idea as well, a merge node or a state in a node you can toggle, which you can place before the simple math like add, multiply, blend etc. So the procedural noises can be baked down on export.
My money!, take it!
I've skimmed the thread, and i havnt seen anything about system requirements, are you willing to reveal anything?
In short, Substance Painter is beyond impressive and it is a game changer. You have every reason to be excited about it.
I'm assuming we'll be able to make our own but that process is difficult to imagine for me. Not that different than making brushes for Photoshop I guess...just much different parameter types for the particles...?
Both. They have their own presets, which you can tweak, you can make your own off those presets by changing the behavior via sliders, or you can actually script new ones entirely. They licensed something called Popcorn FX http://www.popcornfx.com/
so their method for creating particle behavior is what can be used in SPainter.