Yup, you also gain a level of mastery when you start to time dodges/blocks, etc. That and the fact that the game is just brutally hard, be prepared to curse a lot
It's not really that hard (hard but not THAT hard). I think the problem is that games nowadays don't demand attention, thinking and patience. That's why Dark Souls seems hard, because it's demanding. Also dying is integral part of the game. I love how DS uses dying not only as a mechanic but also makes it a part of the plot. Dark Souls is a game where dying isn't really a failure. It's a part of the experience.
hmmm interesting, I always want to go back to those good old arcade action game days, i might check this out if some place goes a discount, also, I'd like to know, as a PC player, do you guy recommend playing this with a gamepad or keyboard+mouse?
I've played a couple of hours, killed some bosses. I'm a bit on the fence. I mean, it's more Dark Souls and the incooperated some elements from Demon's Souls ( You'll know what I mean. ). What's kind of disappointing so far, which I loved with Demon's Souls is that the bosses were more of the Zelda type. A nifty trick, a weak point and when you figured it out it really wasn't that hard.
Dark Souls (1) on the other hand drastically reduced these type of bosses and most bosses were just a large mob on steroids or the hardest boss simply two large mobs on steroids, or a large mob on steroids that summon small mobs. So far Dark Souls 2 seem to be the same way with the bosses. That said though, I've only played for a couple of hours.
So far great game! I hope the pull off a cool story like Demon's Souls!
I'd definitely go with gamepad, kb + mouse seems awkward in dark souls.
It's beyond just awkward. You can figure it out if you're really patient, but the developers hadn't made a PC game before porting Dark Souls, and some of their key bindings are baffling and unexplained. Dark souls is great on PC, but you must use a gamepad (360 works best since that reflects the buttons displayed on-screen) and the DSfix mod to fix resolution.
But yes, I highly recommend Dark Souls. You're not going to understand the draw from just looking at it. The world is really well designed though, and the sense of accomplishment you have when you get through a tricky spot or beat a boss is unrivaled IMO.
I played Dark Souls 2 some more, probably ~12 hours in so far. It's weird, by the time I played the last two souls games I already knew a lot about them and they were very well documented, now I'm flying blind and trying to avoid info. A very different experience for sure.
Turns out I joined a covenant that makes enemies harder without realizing it. Left that and I've been making some pretty steady progress, with the help of some summons here and there. I'm fighting
The Lost Sinner right now and he's a pain in my ass. Just a quick swordsman type dude, reminds me of Artorias. He's not that bad, but I haven't gotten his moves figured out yet, it seems pretty erratic.
I struggled with them because I didn't knew upgrading weapons was way more important than leveling character. When I upgraded my weapon it was though but not 'Nuff said' level. It was 'medium' on difficulty scale ;p
Just like I said before. It's a hard game. Just not as hard as people like to describe it.
Ahaha, I've been really against looking things up on the internet, but Shiniku got me scared. Seems like I've been pouring resources into the same covenant. Making the game harder, hehe.
At the beginning of the game I progressed a couple of hours without leveling up and estus flasks. To be honest they could be a bit more clear on the whereabouts of such an important NPC :S. I was like " The NEXT bonfire has to be able to level me up! "
This thread seems pretty quiet considering the game is out, well in US anyways.
Are people not enjoying it as much as Dark Souls?
I watched a few streams of vageta311's and he was still taking a beating despite being one of the best DkS players I've seen.
I've heard the bosses are much easier this time around and the general mobs are harder. Seems to be a trend from Demon Souls to Dark Souls to Dark souls 2 were this is happening.
Seriously though, I'm enjoying it. And so far I'd certainly say the mobs are harder. Seem to fight 2-3 more often than I did in DS1, and having a harder time separating them into 1v1.
I also used a tower shield and a lightning +5 spear in pretty much all of DS1. Haven't found a good shield and spear yet, so that might be part of it. I like to block and counter, which probably means choosing a swordsman for my starting class was a bad idea.
Wonder if the camera is improved at all. I just picked up dark souls, and clearly its a great game, but I'm battling the camera as much as I am the hollows.
I was looking into trying the Swordsman in DkS2 since I liked the wanderer in DkS, but this looks a bad idea, not starting with a shield. Not seen many people Parrying and Riposting either, so maybe it's all about the dodging. Think i'll be going Bandit since I liked the Dex builds and faster weapons more.
Yeah the camera was always a bitch in a lot of places, the amount of times I've died to the Capra Demon because the damn camera kept freaking out in that small alley with the damn trees blocking my view.
Seriously though, I'm enjoying it. And so far I'd certainly say the mobs are harder. Seem to fight 2-3 more often than I did in DS1, and having a harder time separating them into 1v1.
Yeah noticed that too, having to take on groups of them right from the very start.
The hardest thing about the game for me is looking at the graphics. It's like somebody took a shit on a shit and then photocopied it at half resolution.
Do you think the lighting is going to be any better on PC? I don't even mean it sarcastically but it even looks like some of the textures are different. Maybe some bullshots from the trailer? I guess I'll be curious to see if it is a PS3 vs PC discrepancy or if the lighting was turned down as a whole...
I've seen people saying "Bosses are easier" but I've had some serious tough times with a few bosses thus far. They seem harder to me. Maybe I just struggled to remember when the bosses in Dark Souls were still hard to me, though.
We don't know if the PC version will have much better lighting, the lighting ended up looking pretty similar to how it was done with Darksouls 1, I didn't really expect the teaser footage to be 100% accurate, the game was made for 9 year old hardware.
Son of a shit...that video. Some of that's waaaay more than just different lighting. The first 30 seconds barely even resemble the footage from one to the other. I guess that's becoming a thing, though. Even games like Skyrim (or its predecessor Oblivion) have a history of claiming visuals/gameplay that aren't actually in the game. Doesn't stop them from being good games, but is also one of the better reasons for feeling disappointed by them.
That being said, while I don't think it's cool at all to screw with a game's advertised visuals to this degree, it still doesn't look like a bad game and I have every intention of snagging the PC version at some point. I can't imagine the PC version will wind up looking like the apparent demos, but even if it's the same as what consoles got I'm still interested. Looks like...an experience.
The fun fact is that the game looked like this. It was playable with this level of graphics.
If the PC version won't look like it was presented on various shows, it will be even bigger shit storm than it was with Alien: Colonial Marines.
And Rightfully so.
DS2 would be a whole new level of false advertising..
Why are you freaking out about the lighting and graphics on a Dark Souls games. It still plays like a Dark Souls game. Alien: Colonial Marines ended up as a game that looked and played a lot worse than it was initially presented.
From the interviews and press about Dark Souls 2, they made made their new engine next gen ready, but Dark Souls 2 was never going to be on next-gen consoles. They obviously had to cut back on the tech for the title. Just look forward to their first nex gen game and stop complaining about the graphics of a game designed to run on old hardware.
Why are you freaking out about the lighting and graphics on a Dark Souls games. It still plays like a Dark Souls game. Alien: Colonial Marines ended up as a game that looked and played a lot worse than it was initially presented.
From the interviews and press about Dark Souls 2, they made made their new engine next gen ready, but Dark Souls 2 was never going to be on next-gen consoles. They obviously had to cut back on the tech for the title. Just look forward to their first nex gen game and stop complaining about the graphics of a game designed to run on old hardware.
Look. It's not about graphics. It's about that game in playable state before release look 19827398x times better than what we have now.
If it looked like it looks now on all shows, noone would caere about it.
Hey guys, shit happens. Until you know exactly why this change took place I don't see the point in throwing accusations at FromSoft or complaining so much. And honestly? Even if the graphics from the demo were intact it wouldn't look up to par with most AAA games. The technical side of graphics is definitely From's weak point. It's the really cool design and experience that I play for, and that hasn't changed since the demo.
It always baffles me when people get so riled up about this stuff. In the end a developer puts out a game and that's what you get, you're not entitled to anything more.
Maybe it's just me, but I actually think the new version looks nicer. Sure they cut down on the lighting, but everything else looks and feels more like a Dark Souls game than ever before. It's not like the game looks like a PS2 title either.
I don't think it's that big of a deal in terms of false advertising either. Aliens:Colonial Marines, from what I recall, had the E3 demo built with an entirely different engine and was solely designed to look good whereas this was most likely a case where the devs realized they had to cut out graphics to make the game run properly.
I'd hope everyone here would be familiar with the realities of game development before putting on their gamer hat and stoking up a righteous outrage over "false advertisement". What's most sickening is the way it's said with a gravity usually reserved for grave social injustices. But it's just my opinion, don't let me dissuade you from starting a petition to have the devs tried in the Hague for their crimes.
WHAT!? sipping a coca cola wont instantly start everyone around me dancing and singing and make my life 100x better!? HOW DARE THEY!
Almost every game I have worked on has changed in visual quality over the course of production, most games Ive been on have been built on pc builds for 75% of their production and then gotten working on consoles later on in development. Ofcourse there is going to be technical restraints that come in at the last second where you have to make things look worse in order to get performance. I thought given that PC is a game dev forums and not the comments section of kotaku and IGN where people actually have somewhat of a grasp of the game dev scene, this would be common knowledge. also in almost every ad nowdays there is fine print saying its not the final product and things are subject to change. I would only consider it false advertising if its an actual ad for the game, like if they showed a gameplay trailer on TV followed by "in stores now" promoting it as the final product you can go and buy now. Or maybe developers just shouldnt show work in progress games.
The aliens fiasco was far far different than the dark souls and also recently watch dogs comparisons of stage demos vs final trailers/gameplay. In both the core game experience is still intact, mechanics are pretty much the same and there are mostly just some differences in visuals. Seeing watch dogs here at ubi every couple days, I can say those comparisons vids make it look waaaaay worse than it the difference actually is, the game still looks phenominal.
I cant stand people calling the whaaaaambulance over shit like this. just pure indignation over something that have such minor impact in their lives. Justin nailed it.
on a more positive note, A few hours into DS 1 and am starting to enjoy it. once you get over the horrible japanese style menus (reminds me of old RE games) the gameplay is pretty fun. graphically makes me grimmace every now and then but its ok.
Thought people were used to seeing games looking worse in final releases than earlier promotional versions that are normally always demoed on PC's.
I wouldn't call it false advertising because the game is still the same, just some things look worse and if you know anything about gaming then you should know what to expect what each platform is capable off.
If you wanna talk false advertising then look to Microsoft demoing Dead Rising 3 on PC's hidden in cabinets and marketed as XBone's or Ubisoft demoing Watch Dogs at Sony's E3 conference whilst the game was running on a PC.
Finally cracked anyways and picked up the PS3 version until the PC version releases.
the only part that really bugged me about the lighting downgrades and texture swapping was that the torches were supposed to be a gameplay mechanic where rooms would be so dark that you could either blindly stumble with a shield or equip your left hand with a torch and get visibility. It was going to give tension and a risk/reward type deal. I was looking forward to that but the rooms are so dull and grey that I never had to use a torch once. Bummer, the Demo builds look absolutely gorgeous. Oh well, next game. I am still having a blast. How do I get summoned as a Blue Sentinel??!
I have mixed feelings about the darkness / torches. I think they could have darkened things enough to necessitate torches in some areas even with the current quality of lighting (they had areas like this in DS1 after all). I think it was a choice. Torches are limited, and I think they didn't want a player to get stuck because he didn't have enough juice left in his torch to see his way through an area. Some areas it really does make things easier, and torches are still important to the game mechanics, even though you can see without them well enough.
But like I said... I have mixed feelings. I do miss the idea of needing a torch to see your way through an area, but honestly when they first showed that feature I thought it looked really annoying, especially if it was a core gameplay element present in a lot of areas, which is what it sounded like. I'm happy enough with how they implemented it.
Is this even a new engine or just a rewritten renderer for Phyreengine?
The earlier, better looking version looks to be from a earlier build on Phereengine. There's a few tells in the video that seem to give it away has being on the older engine.
played a little bit finally. Learning the ropes. Learning how they punish you for dying this time, game has changed a bit due to it. Its no longer fail > learn > advance, which is a little troubling. You can still do that, but you're given less and less opportunities to learn now.
Visually, it doesn't hold up to Dark Souls 1 so far, both with monsters and environments. There are a few rooms that have fantastic atmosphere and mystery, but the majority of stuff so far is flat and lacking a bit of character. There isn't as clear of a break between inside & outside like in Dark Souls (going into that first aqueduct, for example) Not going to judge yet, just an observation.
Seems like they're doing more monster closets, random monster spawn triggers.
I also have no fucking clue what the story is about. Dark Souls 1 was very clear, gave you enough information and setup, then let you loose. Imagine stuff will come as the game goes on, but felt they hit on something more powerful in 1 than 2 so far with the initial first 30min experience.
I for one love the undead states. Being undead didn't really mean anything in DS1. While in Demon's Souls your hp was instantly cut in half when you were undead. Feels like a good mix between the two.
I personally would like to see mana make a comeback vs the spell uses. Buuut whatever.
I didn't like the beginning though. But that wore off quickly when the covenant/leveling up nonesense got sorted. I have to say the game is HUGE. Very, very vast. Which I think explains the lacking graphics. The scope of this game is huge. I'm still cheering everytime I find a new area, and there's lots of them. My Travel menu is getting hard to navigate with all of the locations.
The three souls games have all had pretty much the same overarching story. The objectives however have never really been clear. In DS1 I felt like I stumbled through the whole game, and the story wasn't really there. Demon's Souls story though! It actually had an ending.
Alright so I finally got it and put in 9 hours so far. My thoughts are:
So basically it's definitely has a ton of improvements from the combat to convenience like bonfire warping and items that recharge magic. Plus summoning is so quick and easy now that it's back to dedicated.
Story wise it's so so. The bosses and characters are a lot blander compared to DS1 and the environments are cool but some of the art and level design is just plain awful compared to part 1. For example I was in this castle like place with a moon and I took this huge cage lift down to a cave which led to an outside vista with a pirate ship. Seemed as though I couldn't do anything there but I looked up and to my surprise the floor I was in earlier was right there in the bloody sky! Floating out in the open!
And then after fighting this one mega boss which by the way I didn't realise was a mega boss till I was told. So I go to the next room and there's a bonfire in the middle of this giant empty box room with large brick textures just lazily applied.
Not to mention lots of gaps in geo, terrible seams, poor lighting and subpar framerate. They've also reused a lot of DS1 assets!
Despite all that...I'm loving it. Gameplay wise it's fun! But I'm at a point now where I literally don't know where to go. I've been all over and I never experienced that in DS1 which had a much more flowing level design.
Oveall it's good but it's not the epic game I wanted it to be. It's also a lot easier! I've killed every boss so far on my first try but DkS always found some way to kill me.
P.S. That foggy forest was INTENSE @_@ Best part of the game for me. You know the one...ghosts...@_@
P.S.S I also reget attacking that religious lady in the spinny room. I liked her armour >.> Now it's lightning disco and healing everytime I try to kill her
Replies
Smough and Ornstein.
Nuff said.
Dark Souls (1) on the other hand drastically reduced these type of bosses and most bosses were just a large mob on steroids or the hardest boss simply two large mobs on steroids, or a large mob on steroids that summon small mobs. So far Dark Souls 2 seem to be the same way with the bosses. That said though, I've only played for a couple of hours.
So far great game! I hope the pull off a cool story like Demon's Souls!
But yes, I highly recommend Dark Souls. You're not going to understand the draw from just looking at it. The world is really well designed though, and the sense of accomplishment you have when you get through a tricky spot or beat a boss is unrivaled IMO.
I played Dark Souls 2 some more, probably ~12 hours in so far. It's weird, by the time I played the last two souls games I already knew a lot about them and they were very well documented, now I'm flying blind and trying to avoid info. A very different experience for sure.
Turns out I joined a covenant that makes enemies harder without realizing it. Left that and I've been making some pretty steady progress, with the help of some summons here and there. I'm fighting
I struggled with them because I didn't knew upgrading weapons was way more important than leveling character. When I upgraded my weapon it was though but not 'Nuff said' level. It was 'medium' on difficulty scale ;p
Just like I said before. It's a hard game. Just not as hard as people like to describe it.
At the beginning of the game I progressed a couple of hours without leveling up and estus flasks. To be honest they could be a bit more clear on the whereabouts of such an important NPC :S. I was like " The NEXT bonfire has to be able to level me up! "
Are people not enjoying it as much as Dark Souls?
I watched a few streams of vageta311's and he was still taking a beating despite being one of the best DkS players I've seen.
I've heard the bosses are much easier this time around and the general mobs are harder. Seems to be a trend from Demon Souls to Dark Souls to Dark souls 2 were this is happening.
Seriously though, I'm enjoying it. And so far I'd certainly say the mobs are harder. Seem to fight 2-3 more often than I did in DS1, and having a harder time separating them into 1v1.
I also used a tower shield and a lightning +5 spear in pretty much all of DS1. Haven't found a good shield and spear yet, so that might be part of it. I like to block and counter, which probably means choosing a swordsman for my starting class was a bad idea.
Yeah the camera was always a bitch in a lot of places, the amount of times I've died to the Capra Demon because the damn camera kept freaking out in that small alley with the damn trees blocking my view.
Yeah noticed that too, having to take on groups of them right from the very start.
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykbT03r_9Zo[/ame]
I don't know why'd you want to play a bastardized version, only 2 months early.
That being said, while I don't think it's cool at all to screw with a game's advertised visuals to this degree, it still doesn't look like a bad game and I have every intention of snagging the PC version at some point. I can't imagine the PC version will wind up looking like the apparent demos, but even if it's the same as what consoles got I'm still interested. Looks like...an experience.
If the PC version won't look like it was presented on various shows, it will be even bigger shit storm than it was with Alien: Colonial Marines.
And Rightfully so.
DS2 would be a whole new level of false advertising..
From the interviews and press about Dark Souls 2, they made made their new engine next gen ready, but Dark Souls 2 was never going to be on next-gen consoles. They obviously had to cut back on the tech for the title. Just look forward to their first nex gen game and stop complaining about the graphics of a game designed to run on old hardware.
QFT.
Look. It's not about graphics. It's about that game in playable state before release look 19827398x times better than what we have now.
If it looked like it looks now on all shows, noone would caere about it.
It always baffles me when people get so riled up about this stuff. In the end a developer puts out a game and that's what you get, you're not entitled to anything more.
Yeah... Just eat everything they throw at you...
I don't think it's that big of a deal in terms of false advertising either. Aliens:Colonial Marines, from what I recall, had the E3 demo built with an entirely different engine and was solely designed to look good whereas this was most likely a case where the devs realized they had to cut out graphics to make the game run properly.
Almost every game I have worked on has changed in visual quality over the course of production, most games Ive been on have been built on pc builds for 75% of their production and then gotten working on consoles later on in development. Ofcourse there is going to be technical restraints that come in at the last second where you have to make things look worse in order to get performance. I thought given that PC is a game dev forums and not the comments section of kotaku and IGN where people actually have somewhat of a grasp of the game dev scene, this would be common knowledge. also in almost every ad nowdays there is fine print saying its not the final product and things are subject to change. I would only consider it false advertising if its an actual ad for the game, like if they showed a gameplay trailer on TV followed by "in stores now" promoting it as the final product you can go and buy now. Or maybe developers just shouldnt show work in progress games.
The aliens fiasco was far far different than the dark souls and also recently watch dogs comparisons of stage demos vs final trailers/gameplay. In both the core game experience is still intact, mechanics are pretty much the same and there are mostly just some differences in visuals. Seeing watch dogs here at ubi every couple days, I can say those comparisons vids make it look waaaaay worse than it the difference actually is, the game still looks phenominal.
I cant stand people calling the whaaaaambulance over shit like this. just pure indignation over something that have such minor impact in their lives. Justin nailed it.
on a more positive note, A few hours into DS 1 and am starting to enjoy it. once you get over the horrible japanese style menus (reminds me of old RE games) the gameplay is pretty fun. graphically makes me grimmace every now and then but its ok.
I wouldn't call it false advertising because the game is still the same, just some things look worse and if you know anything about gaming then you should know what to expect what each platform is capable off.
If you wanna talk false advertising then look to Microsoft demoing Dead Rising 3 on PC's hidden in cabinets and marketed as XBone's or Ubisoft demoing Watch Dogs at Sony's E3 conference whilst the game was running on a PC.
Finally cracked anyways and picked up the PS3 version until the PC version releases.
But like I said... I have mixed feelings. I do miss the idea of needing a torch to see your way through an area, but honestly when they first showed that feature I thought it looked really annoying, especially if it was a core gameplay element present in a lot of areas, which is what it sounded like. I'm happy enough with how they implemented it.
[ame="
YES. Finally I can just pay money to speed level. I hate having to play a game I buy.
I'd rather just pay money after buying it so I don't have to play it.
The earlier, better looking version looks to be from a earlier build on Phereengine. There's a few tells in the video that seem to give it away has being on the older engine.
I really didn't have a tough time with DS1, but I'm really struggling with the early stages of DS2.
No, not permanently. Become human again to have your max health restored.
I heard that constantly dying also increases your likelihood of being invaded.
In DS1 there was Human <-> Undead
In DS2 it's like
Human
UD 1
UD 2
UD 3
UD 4
UD 5
Visually, it doesn't hold up to Dark Souls 1 so far, both with monsters and environments. There are a few rooms that have fantastic atmosphere and mystery, but the majority of stuff so far is flat and lacking a bit of character. There isn't as clear of a break between inside & outside like in Dark Souls (going into that first aqueduct, for example) Not going to judge yet, just an observation.
Seems like they're doing more monster closets, random monster spawn triggers.
I also have no fucking clue what the story is about. Dark Souls 1 was very clear, gave you enough information and setup, then let you loose. Imagine stuff will come as the game goes on, but felt they hit on something more powerful in 1 than 2 so far with the initial first 30min experience.
Must play more!
I was some dead guy, flew a bird to some other place, and was told to ring 2 bells.
I do not feel DS2 is inferior in this way.
I personally would like to see mana make a comeback vs the spell uses. Buuut whatever.
I didn't like the beginning though. But that wore off quickly when the covenant/leveling up nonesense got sorted. I have to say the game is HUGE. Very, very vast. Which I think explains the lacking graphics. The scope of this game is huge. I'm still cheering everytime I find a new area, and there's lots of them. My Travel menu is getting hard to navigate with all of the locations.
The three souls games have all had pretty much the same overarching story. The objectives however have never really been clear. In DS1 I felt like I stumbled through the whole game, and the story wasn't really there. Demon's Souls story though! It actually had an ending.
So basically it's definitely has a ton of improvements from the combat to convenience like bonfire warping and items that recharge magic. Plus summoning is so quick and easy now that it's back to dedicated.
Story wise it's so so. The bosses and characters are a lot blander compared to DS1 and the environments are cool but some of the art and level design is just plain awful compared to part 1. For example I was in this castle like place with a moon and I took this huge cage lift down to a cave which led to an outside vista with a pirate ship. Seemed as though I couldn't do anything there but I looked up and to my surprise the floor I was in earlier was right there in the bloody sky! Floating out in the open!
And then after fighting this one mega boss which by the way I didn't realise was a mega boss till I was told. So I go to the next room and there's a bonfire in the middle of this giant empty box room with large brick textures just lazily applied.
Not to mention lots of gaps in geo, terrible seams, poor lighting and subpar framerate. They've also reused a lot of DS1 assets!
Despite all that...I'm loving it. Gameplay wise it's fun! But I'm at a point now where I literally don't know where to go. I've been all over and I never experienced that in DS1 which had a much more flowing level design.
Oveall it's good but it's not the epic game I wanted it to be. It's also a lot easier! I've killed every boss so far on my first try but DkS always found some way to kill me.
P.S. That foggy forest was INTENSE @_@ Best part of the game for me. You know the one...ghosts...@_@
P.S.S I also reget attacking that religious lady in the spinny room. I liked her armour >.> Now it's lightning disco and healing everytime I try to kill her