It seems that at the bottom of dota store (http://www.dota2.com/store) as well as on dota steam library page 3 items shown there are based on most popularity from last week list despite there is no direct access to such page from workshop itself (only recent and most popular today are available now).
As only those items are gathering massive votes I hope we will have them adapted to new system soon
Apart from this I am really curious to see how new workshop will work out in practice
So far I have had almost all of the tiny 'lava' set come up in cue and all of the timber beaver set come up in cue. Then everything else is random? Why those sets come up like that I have no idea.
I would be interesting to see how the queue works. So far none of my items seem to of appeared in the queue for people.
I suspect that the changes will increase the distance of those with a fan base and able to advertise beyond workshop, and the new workshop artist now relying on getting into a random queue. New workshop artists used to be able stand out atleast for a week if they got a first day snowball to get onto the front page for a week.
I feel it's going to be very hit or miss. Make a nice set and get into the queue and you should do well with votes. However make a nice set and miss the queue, and your votes will remain low.
External advertising will be more important then ever to bypass the random queue and sending people directly to your items.
So far I have had almost all of the tiny 'lava' set come up in cue and all of the timber beaver set come up in cue. Then everything else is random? Why those sets come up like that I have no idea.
When you create a collection of your items there is a new option to specify it as a set rather than just a collection. Doing so will cause the queue to say, do you want to see this se of items in game? Iif its just tagged as a normal collection the queue seems to throw up every item from ir rather than just once.
Can someone explain the workshop a bit more clearly? I may be understanding things wrong but it seems like it will be hell for new artists trying to get into the workshop. Am I wrong?
Awesome concept.
Great modelling and texturing.
Promo art that makes it look like it will never look in game.
Advertising to draw people to it.
Tons of luck.
And you're competing against items made for tourneys and artists who have stuff in that always seem to get more stuff in on every update (less room for new artists).
And Valve is always wishy washy on what they want or will accept, so you spend all your time working by the rules and then they break them.
Hmm... so someone help me understand this. Under the new vote queue system it means that now we will not only compete with sets that are relatively new, but now we will compete with retroactive, much older sets since those can come up on people's vote queue? Like a set that was added to the workshop a year ago but now people can re-vote on it?
Again... maybe I am understanding this wrong, I wish there was some kind of more detailed explanation on the subject.
EduardoMC : Preety much yep , there is no more 1 week thing that get snowballed into 5 stars . My last item has around 50%-50% positive-negative ratings , wich is preety crazy . I kinda like this sistem tho
When you create a collection of your items there is a new option to specify it as a set rather than just a collection. Doing so will cause the queue to say, do you want to see this se of items in game? Iif its just tagged as a normal collection the queue seems to throw up every item from ir rather than just once.
Yeah, I've seen the set thing and that's cool. Still they didn't solve the problem of sets clogging up the 'new page'. It might clean up the cue a bit though.
But what I mean is it gives me 12 random items to vote on. Yet 4 of those belong to the same set (whether or not tagged as set I don't know).
But if there are 10,000 items on the workshop and 12 are chosen to vote on, why are 4 of them all from the same set /author.
And it happens frequently. So it's not a very good random IMO.
I've also noticed on TF2: There is a 'xmas wish thought bubble'. It's a nine piece set (all class). Those all came up within a few cues. Also a set of medals for a tourney. They all got tons of votes so everyone has been seeing those items and they dominated the favorite for the day for several days.
That's pretty bad out of all the items to have several cues in a row clogged by tournament medals and one xmas item from last year.
Some of my old items have had 1 new visitor. So why is everyone getting the xmas wish bubble cued but some items aren't cued at all (so far anyway)
It is helping SOME older items get more votes which is good, but it's also obviously spamming the same items for everyone all at once.
Hmm... so someone help me understand this. Under the new vote queue system it means that now we will not only compete with sets that are relatively new, but now we will compete with retroactive, much older sets since those can come up on people's vote queue? Like a set that was added to the workshop a year ago but now people can re-vote on it?
Again... maybe I am understanding this wrong, I wish there was some kind of more detailed explanation on the subject.
You were always competing against everything on the workshop. It just means that now people will start to vote more on older stuff too. Hopefully it gives all items a better chance.
Before your item had to be the popular thing for the week or it sank into oblivion forever.
Now people will start to see it all the time (presumably) so if it's good it has a better chance of rising to the top.
This SHOULD help filter out bad stuff and keep good stuff over time. Though with my TF2 example above there are some obvious issues.
But what I mean is it gives me 12 random items to vote on. Yet 4 of those belong to the same set (whether or not tagged as set I don't know).
But if there are 10,000 items on the workshop and 12 are chosen to vote on, why are 4 of them all from the same set /author.
And it happens frequently. So it's not a very good random IMO.
Yeah unfortunately I don't believe the change is retroactive. Meaning contributors will have to go back through all their collections and change them from "Items that work together" to "Items that are a set". There's still a fair amount of streamlining to be done here it seems.
The change to acknowledging sets is a step forward and hopefully these changes will radiate to the "Most popular (Today)" screen as currently its populated by 3 sets despite being 30 icons.
hey guys, started working on an ogre magi set, any-one know if he is being re-worked or anything like that? I notice he has very few sets... usually a sign of something afoot..
Been spending a few days updating Pudge Warpath with a new hook, and less violent left arm and belt.
Clickable^^
I feel I'm struggling to advertise my new sets. Reddit, twitter and facebook are resulting in minimal interest. Which is understandable, as I'm a new workshop artist without a set in game yet ( need fans to gain new fans ). What are people strategy's/tips to advertise their sets and gather a fan base?
Cross post from my thread, we (Godzy, Horse and i) finished this set a few days ago, please check it out and consider giving us a vote if you like it. thank you
Hey guys I've got a question: Is there any way to append facial animation to a head remodel? I've noticed some other sets lack the portrait animations due to replacing the head model.
Edit: Figured I'd throw down some in-game previews of my Tiny set. He's just got a first coat of paint at the moment, more texturing to come.
yeah I don't think it would be so frustrating if it was org chest + normal chest, but if it's only this one, then dang. Hopefully we'll see a long long string of artists chests (and singles!?) after
Hi guys, this is my first post in the Dota section of Polycount and my latest post in a while!
I'm sharing the first set I'm doing with my friend motenai on the Life stealer hero.
I took care of general concept design and the high poly.
What you see here is the final version after some tweaks agreed with my partner!
I hope you enjoy the view... next post will be motenai with the lowpoly and bake .
Done! Also, I guess November will only see one chest. Boohoo. Next month chest is only DC chest, Boohoo more!
Considering what I have some knowledge about for the future (not courtesy of Oracle!) I wouldn't hold my breath.
Tournament chests are quickly becoming the norm, and Valve needs to step up the frequency of artist chests by a lot to compete with that rise. That, or become much more strict on who gets to push tournament chests, and then favoritism becomes a whole bigger thing than it already is.
It's an uncomfortable journey ahead for workshoppers if Valve doesn't start making some really tough choices.
edit: Really sorry for sounding so negative lately. Must be the November depression nipping at my heels...
btw: I really love that Lifestealer. Unsettling and really cool design. Hopefully it'll pass the Chinalawz/Low Violence test, because I feel like we need more stuff like this.
Considering what I have some knowledge about for the future (not courtesy of Oracle!) I wouldn't hold my breath.
Tournament chests are quickly becoming the norm, and Valve needs to step up the frequency of artist chests by a lot to compete with that rise. That, or become much more strict on who gets to push tournament chests, and then favoritism becomes a whole bigger thing than it already is.
It's an uncomfortable journey ahead for workshoppers if Valve doesn't start making some really tough choices.
That is why I have dropped all my projects and leaving the workshop for good after I wrap up my last two projects. Waste of time for me. Was fun while it lasted. Even the artists have closed up to themselves and everyone is so secretive compared to the early days. You suddenly happen upon a finished product my some team. I know a lot of people who got stuff in might disagree with me, but there is that negative vibe going around and it might be only me, either way, it is pushing me to move on.
That is why I have dropped all my projects and leaving the workshop for good after I wrap up my last two projects. Waste of time for me. Was fun while it lasted. Even the artists have closed up to themselves and everyone is so secretive compared to the early days. You suddenly happen upon a finished product my some team. I know a lot of people who got stuff in might disagree with me, but there is that negative vibe going around and it might be only me, either way, it is pushing me to move on.
Well not to make things more depressing, but I think a lot of ppl have or had this feeling.
I will try and finish one set and see how that goes with the new workshop. These days u need a 10 men crew to deliver anything near the queality and time sheme that workshop sets are being produced. I always come back at making items, because I really like to play the game and I like making items. But it gets more and more time consuming and the fun about making a nice and simple item is getting les attractive.
As long as companies and ppl make a lot of money Valve probably won't change a thing, and well that's what it is all about. I mean this whole world is money $$$ driven, you just can't change that.
Maybe we need to boycot the company and tournament chests so things will be less interesting for Valve and those companies to participate And take over the workshop again, and rule the world!:)
@Vovo: Awesome mount, would love to sea something like that in the game!
Maybe we need to boycot the company and tournament chests so things will be less interesting for Valve and those companies to participate And take over the workshop again, and rule the world!:)
It's just a matter of time if leagues continue to offer less and less percent :thumbup:
It seems strange to me that they wouldn't endorse Polycount as an 'organisation' of some sort, since it's basically a collection of artists churning out high quality content. From the outset, it definitely seems like the easiest way to get something into the game is to do all the work, put someone else's name on it and split the profits with them. I guess the logic is 'some money is better than no money'.
Hello everyone! Sorry to interrupt you guys but I have something to say.
There is fella ReMixx. He's hosting site http://dotahattery.com. I'm sure a lot of you're familiar with it and lots of you're using this site. It's really neat and cool way to show everyone your sets/items. As you may notice site doesn't really have outstanding design, because ReMixx is mainly a programmer so I think we (artists) should help him like he helps us. I suggest to start with a logo for the website. Let's choose several ideas and some skilled artist will draw it. I'd make it myself but I really suck at drawing. What do you guys think about this idea?
Hello everyone! Sorry to interrupt you guys but I have something to say.
There is fella ReMixx. He's hosting site http://dotahattery.com. I'm sure a lot of you're familiar with it and lots of you're using this site. It's really neat and cool way to show everyone your sets/items. As you may notice site doesn't really have outstanding design, because ReMixx is mainly a programmer so I think we (artists) should help him like he helps us. I suggest to start with a logo for the website. Let's choose several ideas and some skilled artist will draw it. I'd make it myself but I really suck at drawing. What do you guys think about this idea?
I will try and finish one set and see how that goes with the new workshop. These days u need a 10 men crew to deliver anything near the queality and time sheme that workshop sets are being produced.
Sorry i just wanted to precise one thing here (just facts, no rage).
In videogame industry standards, with 8 hours of work a day (fulltime), you'd be supposed to finish a set in not longer than 2,5 weeks, alone.
From my only experience doing a LoL set, they expected sculpt in 3 days, lowpoly + UV + bakes in 2-3 days, and textures in again 2-3 days. So a maximum of 9 days for the whole sculpt+lowpoly+texture.
Let's say that Dota times get dilated a bit more adding concept, texture masks (that LoL doesn't have), and promotional art.
I myself don't even stay in these times, cause i like to take it easy, but in general, saying that a set requires a 10 men crew is a bit of an overstatement imho.
Yeah, I'd like to chime in on the 10 men crew thing as well. I understand that this was a bit of a figure of speech, but still : the fact that some entries are being made by a team of many people doesn't mean that every workshop entry has to. For some odd reason there is a bit of a snowball effect that makes people believe that a lot of extra things are required, while they actually are not.
Things that you don't need :
- SFM movie
- Spell particle effects
- Crazy produced trailer video with flashy titles and editing
Things that can be a nice bonus if done well :
- Ability icons
- A subtle ambient effect, *if* the set has been designed with it from the beginning (in other words, no need to make things glow just for the sake of it, it's pointless and looks kinda dumb)
Things that you really need :
- A well made model
- Carefully crafted textures
- A promotional render for the collection, which also doubles as loading screen. This can be a full-on painting or just a touched up Marmoset render - whatever works best !
- A quick video showing the set from game view and from the loadout screen, and of course a few screenshots
- A the most important part of all : a solid design.
It's all very doable by a single person, or by a team of two. Nothing new here ! And of course the same applies to singles. Now of course it all takes time, but that's always been the case ...
I'm suprised no one has bundled their set with a comic explaining the lore behind it, something similar to the "Foreseer Contract", seems like an easy replacement if an SFM proves to be too much for the single artist.
People love those extras, I'll even bet that it'll sell more if it were included on top of a well executed set, and valve knows this. Sure it might not be 'needed' but it still provides one hell of a massive bonus, more than ability icons and ambient particles. Just look at the most successful sets on the workshop then put two and two together.
Of course - but all I am saying is that an artist, by him/herself, can still produce a very interesting set that ends up being put in a store chest without having to create all these extras. These things are nice bonuses and people love them for sure, but at the end of the day they don't really impact chest sales ...
Of course - but all I am saying is that an artist, by him/herself, can still produce a very interesting set that ends up being put in a store chest without having to create all these extras. These things are nice bonuses and people love them for sure, but at the end of the day they don't really impact chest sales ...
Would be a very interesting stat to see new artists getting stuff in this year vs last year.
So much petty shots. I really though I'd enjoy my time here and thought this was such a welcoming community. I am saying this, speaking for myself. I am sad, and very discouraged by so many of you. I will leave with the statement that I see all the time mentioned when it comes to running a business or any endeavor for that matter - to be successful, it's better to focus on things to make your product better versus stewing over what others are doing to bring you down. Because they aren't. What someone else does will do very little to impact your work if it's quality work.
For those who I have met at events and here who have been helpful with my learning process or maybe even consider me a friend, thank you for putting up with my questions. I hope we'll cross paths someday - or you know how to contact me. For everyone else, best of luck with your work. See you around.
ETA: Also, remember that every time you lump DC projects as a whole, you forget the artists involved. Kunkka, , Trungth, Chemical Alia, Dry, Nateo,everyone at Airborn, Automedic, katzeimsack, Pior, and anyone else I may have forgotten. You all worked hard and really deserve what I hope is a successful collaboration with us. Thank you.
Hello everyone! Sorry to interrupt you guys but I have something to say.
There is fella ReMixx. He's hosting site http://dotahattery.com. I'm sure a lot of you're familiar with it and lots of you're using this site. It's really neat and cool way to show everyone your sets/items. As you may notice site doesn't really have outstanding design, because ReMixx is mainly a programmer so I think we (artists) should help him like he helps us. I suggest to start with a logo for the website. Let's choose several ideas and some skilled artist will draw it. I'd make it myself but I really suck at drawing. What do you guys think about this idea?
Isn't that just for artists who already have something in game?
So just another way to promote the lucky while the rest of us grind it out just trying to get feedback.
Replies
As only those items are gathering massive votes I hope we will have them adapted to new system soon
Apart from this I am really curious to see how new workshop will work out in practice
So far I have had almost all of the tiny 'lava' set come up in cue and all of the timber beaver set come up in cue. Then everything else is random? Why those sets come up like that I have no idea.
I suspect that the changes will increase the distance of those with a fan base and able to advertise beyond workshop, and the new workshop artist now relying on getting into a random queue. New workshop artists used to be able stand out atleast for a week if they got a first day snowball to get onto the front page for a week.
I feel it's going to be very hit or miss. Make a nice set and get into the queue and you should do well with votes. However make a nice set and miss the queue, and your votes will remain low.
External advertising will be more important then ever to bypass the random queue and sending people directly to your items.
-Toasty
When you create a collection of your items there is a new option to specify it as a set rather than just a collection. Doing so will cause the queue to say, do you want to see this se of items in game? Iif its just tagged as a normal collection the queue seems to throw up every item from ir rather than just once.
We just submitted a Mirana set we did in collaboration with team Fnatic: Selemene's Champion! Click the image to check it out on the workshop!
There are some extra images of the progress on our thread right here if anyone is interested.
You need :
Awesome concept.
Great modelling and texturing.
Promo art that makes it look like it will never look in game.
Advertising to draw people to it.
Tons of luck.
And you're competing against items made for tourneys and artists who have stuff in that always seem to get more stuff in on every update (less room for new artists).
And Valve is always wishy washy on what they want or will accept, so you spend all your time working by the rules and then they break them.
Your votes are welcome
(clickable image)
clickable^^^
Again... maybe I am understanding this wrong, I wish there was some kind of more detailed explanation on the subject.
Yeah, I've seen the set thing and that's cool. Still they didn't solve the problem of sets clogging up the 'new page'. It might clean up the cue a bit though.
But what I mean is it gives me 12 random items to vote on. Yet 4 of those belong to the same set (whether or not tagged as set I don't know).
But if there are 10,000 items on the workshop and 12 are chosen to vote on, why are 4 of them all from the same set /author.
And it happens frequently. So it's not a very good random IMO.
I've also noticed on TF2: There is a 'xmas wish thought bubble'. It's a nine piece set (all class). Those all came up within a few cues. Also a set of medals for a tourney. They all got tons of votes so everyone has been seeing those items and they dominated the favorite for the day for several days.
That's pretty bad out of all the items to have several cues in a row clogged by tournament medals and one xmas item from last year.
Some of my old items have had 1 new visitor. So why is everyone getting the xmas wish bubble cued but some items aren't cued at all (so far anyway)
It is helping SOME older items get more votes which is good, but it's also obviously spamming the same items for everyone all at once.
You were always competing against everything on the workshop. It just means that now people will start to vote more on older stuff too. Hopefully it gives all items a better chance.
Before your item had to be the popular thing for the week or it sank into oblivion forever.
Now people will start to see it all the time (presumably) so if it's good it has a better chance of rising to the top.
This SHOULD help filter out bad stuff and keep good stuff over time. Though with my TF2 example above there are some obvious issues.
Yeah unfortunately I don't believe the change is retroactive. Meaning contributors will have to go back through all their collections and change them from "Items that work together" to "Items that are a set". There's still a fair amount of streamlining to be done here it seems.
The change to acknowledging sets is a step forward and hopefully these changes will radiate to the "Most popular (Today)" screen as currently its populated by 3 sets despite being 30 icons.
Clickable^^
I feel I'm struggling to advertise my new sets. Reddit, twitter and facebook are resulting in minimal interest. Which is understandable, as I'm a new workshop artist without a set in game yet ( need fans to gain new fans ). What are people strategy's/tips to advertise their sets and gather a fan base?
*Nevermind I just saw it is a change for a set you already have on the workshop?
Edit: Figured I'd throw down some in-game previews of my Tiny set. He's just got a first coat of paint at the moment, more texturing to come.
I for one look forward to pre-ordering my next Arcana through Gamestop for those sweet release day particle effects
Done! Also, I guess November will only see one chest. Boohoo. Next month chest is only DC chest, Boohoo more!
I'm sharing the first set I'm doing with my friend motenai on the Life stealer hero.
I took care of general concept design and the high poly.
What you see here is the final version after some tweaks agreed with my partner!
I hope you enjoy the view... next post will be motenai with the lowpoly and bake
Tournament chests are quickly becoming the norm, and Valve needs to step up the frequency of artist chests by a lot to compete with that rise. That, or become much more strict on who gets to push tournament chests, and then favoritism becomes a whole bigger thing than it already is.
It's an uncomfortable journey ahead for workshoppers if Valve doesn't start making some really tough choices.
edit: Really sorry for sounding so negative lately. Must be the November depression nipping at my heels...
btw: I really love that Lifestealer. Unsettling and really cool design. Hopefully it'll pass the Chinalawz/Low Violence test, because I feel like we need more stuff like this.
That is why I have dropped all my projects and leaving the workshop for good after I wrap up my last two projects. Waste of time for me. Was fun while it lasted. Even the artists have closed up to themselves and everyone is so secretive compared to the early days. You suddenly happen upon a finished product my some team. I know a lot of people who got stuff in might disagree with me, but there is that negative vibe going around and it might be only me, either way, it is pushing me to move on.
I think it looks pretty good, but I don't really like that nose ring on the mount.
Just finished my first Dota set in a long while. If you like it please vote to support it.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=344216235
Well not to make things more depressing, but I think a lot of ppl have or had this feeling.
I will try and finish one set and see how that goes with the new workshop. These days u need a 10 men crew to deliver anything near the queality and time sheme that workshop sets are being produced. I always come back at making items, because I really like to play the game and I like making items. But it gets more and more time consuming and the fun about making a nice and simple item is getting les attractive.
As long as companies and ppl make a lot of money Valve probably won't change a thing, and well that's what it is all about. I mean this whole world is money $$$ driven, you just can't change that.
Maybe we need to boycot the company and tournament chests so things will be less interesting for Valve and those companies to participate
@Vovo: Awesome mount, would love to sea something like that in the game!
It's just a matter of time if leagues continue to offer less and less percent :thumbup:
Maybe we will start playing DotaCinema 2 instead of just DotA2! Considering Nov and Dec cosmetics direction.
There is fella ReMixx. He's hosting site http://dotahattery.com. I'm sure a lot of you're familiar with it and lots of you're using this site. It's really neat and cool way to show everyone your sets/items. As you may notice site doesn't really have outstanding design, because ReMixx is mainly a programmer so I think we (artists) should help him like he helps us. I suggest to start with a logo for the website. Let's choose several ideas and some skilled artist will draw it. I'd make it myself but I really suck at drawing. What do you guys think about this idea?
draw few hats stack together like TF2 :P
best...
Sorry i just wanted to precise one thing here (just facts, no rage).
In videogame industry standards, with 8 hours of work a day (fulltime), you'd be supposed to finish a set in not longer than 2,5 weeks, alone.
From my only experience doing a LoL set, they expected sculpt in 3 days, lowpoly + UV + bakes in 2-3 days, and textures in again 2-3 days. So a maximum of 9 days for the whole sculpt+lowpoly+texture.
Let's say that Dota times get dilated a bit more adding concept, texture masks (that LoL doesn't have), and promotional art.
I myself don't even stay in these times, cause i like to take it easy, but in general, saying that a set requires a 10 men crew is a bit of an overstatement imho.
Things that you don't need :
- SFM movie
- Spell particle effects
- Crazy produced trailer video with flashy titles and editing
Things that can be a nice bonus if done well :
- Ability icons
- A subtle ambient effect, *if* the set has been designed with it from the beginning (in other words, no need to make things glow just for the sake of it, it's pointless and looks kinda dumb)
Things that you really need :
- A well made model
- Carefully crafted textures
- A promotional render for the collection, which also doubles as loading screen. This can be a full-on painting or just a touched up Marmoset render - whatever works best !
- A quick video showing the set from game view and from the loadout screen, and of course a few screenshots
- A the most important part of all : a solid design.
It's all very doable by a single person, or by a team of two. Nothing new here ! And of course the same applies to singles. Now of course it all takes time, but that's always been the case ...
People love those extras, I'll even bet that it'll sell more if it were included on top of a well executed set, and valve knows this. Sure it might not be 'needed' but it still provides one hell of a massive bonus, more than ability icons and ambient particles. Just look at the most successful sets on the workshop then put two and two together.
Would be a very interesting stat to see new artists getting stuff in this year vs last year.
For those who I have met at events and here who have been helpful with my learning process or maybe even consider me a friend, thank you for putting up with my questions. I hope we'll cross paths someday - or you know how to contact me. For everyone else, best of luck with your work. See you around.
ETA: Also, remember that every time you lump DC projects as a whole, you forget the artists involved. Kunkka,
Isn't that just for artists who already have something in game?
So just another way to promote the lucky while the rest of us grind it out just trying to get feedback.