Okay, can any of you guys then give a arguement why vengeful is dressed like this? What does it do for her character? This is not a arguement for any of the opinions btw.
Hi everyone! Sorry for interrupting the discussion but I'm in need of some feedback
Making a staff for natures prophet. Here's some in-game screenshots and a marmoset render.
Hi everyone! Sorry for interrupting the discussion but I'm in need of some feedback
Making a staff for natures prophet. Here's some in-game screenshots and a marmoset render.
It seems like you are trying to squeeze out too much detail, or maybe just too many mushrooms. The issue i have with it is upclose you can see a lot of the edges of the geometry. maybe a few less shrooms so you can give some more edges to some of the other shrooms. And I think it needs a nice value shift/gradient going from the bottom up, it seems like there is one, but maybe its just a bit too subtle for my tastes
I think generally the base model should tell you how much armor you can remove from a hero. There's a reason qop still has armor in her base model to explain to artists that she is not to be made into a complete pornstar, similarly with PA. On the other side, heroes like bloodseeker are next to naked in their base model because they are feral creatures and there are variations of designs that will work successfully with him with less clothes, same with beastmaster etc.
You should always add to the base model but when you start taking away, you are have to be aware that you are going stepping past the cutoff point for customization. Sometimes it can be in good taste and work. But as a general rule its probably not advisable
No I haven't, and yep, that's some sexualized male armor all right. At least they're equal-opportunity about it. I can't say the same for the majority of games out there though; which is partially why game playing demographics are so male dominated. Something I'm hoping will change soon.
No need to be rude. There's something... off... about claiming to know what women want in a game while also dismissing the opinion of the only woman currently in the discussion XD.
And you haven't responded to a couple of questions I asked earlier:
-Does it fit PA's character/would she wear that into a battle?
-Or is it meant to be titillating to the (male) viewer?
-Do you really believe [the female tera] armor was designed to appeal to women? (The male armor puts this more in context as a highly sexualized game overall, but the question still stands)
Okay, can any of you guys then give a arguement why vengeful is dressed like this?
What does it do for her character? This is not a arguement for any of the opinions btw.
No, I can't, and actually the original vengeful spirit was my least-liked design out of all the heroes and that was partially why. I was hoping they'd change that more with the rework but they didn't.
@TheIceHeLater I agree with kite, perhaps make less shrooms and them give them more tri's, it'll help the look of them a lot^^ Also, I feel you should put the two pieces of wood closer to each other, it doesn't really seem like the straps are holding them together, but more preventing the other piece of wood from floating away. I like the overall concept though man! Gj^^
@hawf Well how can we not draw something of relation from the game we're talking about? Should we completely disregard the game in the discussion of if something fits the game?
Okay, can any of you guys then give a arguement why vengeful is dressed like this?
What does it do for her character? This is not a arguement for any of the opinions btw.
Her lore says she was snared in an assassins net which tore her wings apart. Her torn and sundered clothing reflects this and her fallen state.
@TheIceHeLater I agree with kite, perhaps make less shrooms and them give them more tri's, it'll help the look of them a lot^^ Also, I feel you should put the two pieces of wood closer to each other, it doesn't really seem like the straps are holding them together, but more preventing the other piece of wood from floating away. I like the overall concept though man! Gj^^
@hawf Well how can we not draw something of relation from the game we're talking about? Should we completely disregard the game in the discussion of if something fits the game?
I deleted two mushrooms and got enough tris to impove the silhouette a great deal. Thanks for the wake up call
No need to be rude. There's something... off... about claiming to know what women want in a game while also dismissing the opinion of the only woman currently in the discussion XD.
And you haven't responded to a couple of questions I asked earlier:
-Does it fit PA's character/would she wear that into a battle?
-Or is it to be titillating to the viewer?
-Do you really believe [the female tera] armor was designed to appeal to women? (The male armor puts this more in context as a highly sexualized game overall, but the question still stands)
I didn't mean to be rude and for that I whole-heartedly apologize. Though I don't think that I really dismissed Artypi's opinion either, I initially called her out because of a generalizing statement she made and I didn't even consider if she was male or female - my issue was more so her critique of the integrity of the item itself and not about her personal preferences for armor.
As for your questions.... I really don't have a problem with some characters showing skin in battle. Some male Dota characters do it with even less armor and they are in the thick of battle even more than PA. PA is supposed to lurk in the shadows until she sees an opportunity to blink out and strike. If she was meant to face tough melee characters one on one or be present in battle more than she is then I would totally agree with you. But as it stands she doesn't need her entire body covered in armor and it looks like most of her armor is either ceremonial or just to conceal her appearance so she can hide in the dark. Having a little less armor in one spot is pretty lore-friendly. If it was a more battle prone woman like Legion Commander then I'd take issue with it. Look at Templar Assassin; she is in battle just as much as Phantom Assassin is(if not more) but you can see the top of her chest on her base model because it works in the right context. They are both assassins with melee-oriented evasion/guard skills.
I think in a game like Tera there's a lot to be said about the intended sexual connotations of their armor(or lack there of). I was just playing devil's advocate by showing you that indeed both sexes are hyper-sexualized in that game. I'm not a fan of the look myself and I don't think you can really compare the sexuality of characters in Tera to characters in Dota.
@vikk0 Looks awesome!! Only minor crit not connected with set/sculpt. Some elements and details are to perpendicular to surface and adding bevel/trim could help to transfer details better to normalmap. Something like this: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1702826&postcount=2
My 2 cents about the whole cleavage deal: Dota has a mainly male audience, so if you expect female characters to not be sexualized, well you're gonna have a bad time. Game companies often do that to attract male gamers (not only teenage boys but older audience too). In fact, Dota has only tiny amount of over-sexualizing compared to other major game titles and that is also due to the fact that Valve can afford to do that. If Dota was made by a smaller company you'd get Smite style girls.
It's like expecting girl games with ponies and glitter to have guns and gore. Not happening, so live with it.
My 2 cents about the whole cleavage deal: Dota has a mainly male audience, so if you expect female characters to not be sexualized, well you're gonna have a bad time. Game companies often do that to attract male gamers (not only teenage boys but older audience too). In fact, Dota has only tiny amount of over-sexualizing compared to other major game titles and that is also due to the fact that Valve can afford to do that. If Dota was made by a smaller company you'd get Smite style girls.
It's like expecting girl games with ponies and glitter to have guns and gore. Not happening, so live with it.
Kramolnik: The bewbs are ok imo , Pa is preety shapeless as a girl character. The head piece tho, feels a bit heavy and gives her an illusion of having a big head.
And try not to use pure white in any game textures ,It will look old school and dirty in game .
@Vovosunt I honestly think that Valve thinks about the feel of the game way more than that. They have never been a company that cared about selling the most copies, but rather making the best game possible. The art department is in the same way
I don't see problem with boobs or bit cleveage but how it's executed. There are other ways of putting emphasis on bust without exposing her tits like that. Only reason why this doesn't fit on someone like PA is because she's fully clothed to begin with. DP, on other hand, well...
Its important to see that death prophet set doesnt physically remove clothing from the BASE model tho
valve makes it very clear how much clothing they want their characters to have at the bare minimum by the base model and anything else is pushing it too far
like I said before, pa has armor in her base model for a reason imo. Her being armored is clearly an integral part of her base design and it makes no sense to try and twist her into something else
Kramolnik: The bewbs are ok imo , Pa is preety shapeless as a girl character. The head piece tho, feels a bit heavy and gives her an illusion of having a big head.
And try not to use pure white in any game textures ,It will look old school and dirty in game .
My 2 cents about the whole cleavage deal: Dota has a mainly male audience, so if you expect female characters to not be sexualized, well you're gonna have a bad time. Game companies often do that to attract male gamers (not only teenage boys but older audience too). In fact, Dota has only tiny amount of over-sexualizing compared to other major game titles and that is also due to the fact that Valve can afford to do that. If Dota was made by a smaller company you'd get Smite style girls.
It's like expecting girl games with ponies and glitter to have guns and gore. Not happening, so live with it.
yeah this is a really shit way of thinking and I'd certainly say it's part of the problem so don't tell us to "live with it"
personally i think is quite funny to see this 2 thing pop out from there XD
- I'm not oppose the cleavage showcase on armor thing , in fact i actually like it teehee.(big fan of shunya yamashita's work)
- but then normally i like that on female who wear light armor or leather type armor, not bulky chest armor like PA, it looks like force out the boobs from there. Partly because the chest part armor is 1 piece and it is very plain.
- from the set, somehow the helmet is large, shoulder pad also looks large, weapon doesn't count because in normal MMO weapon normally as larga as fuck you can go. Back to the size thing, because the things i mentioned looks large ( and HEAVY) so the breast part really looks very big difference and weird there. (another thing, i prefer you add 1 more style for the boobs armor with change the colour to grey to match the grey metal colour of PA)
- if want to show cleavage, i'd rather reduce shoulder pad size to lighter, helmet maybe change to something like a crown or [A]'s PA Head Piece like this below -OR- Hood type those lighter armor to make whole gear design lighter.
- Back to Cleavage issue, most of them are mage class i believe... knight class or those heavy armor/ melee type i think normally show lesser chest.
I'm trying to understand you, but I can not. What is your issue here?
First you're against cleavage and now you don't like that Valve doesn't use cheap tricks like that?
Pick a side and stick with it. =_="
@Vovosunt I honestly think that Valve thinks about the feel of the game way more than that. They have never been a company that cared about selling the most copies, but rather making the best game possible. The art department is in the same way
I'm not saying Valve doesn't care about the game, they do (for fucks sake look at Dota, it's magnificent ). But they can concentrate on making the game good because Valve owns Steam. They can pretty much release anything they want and it WILL get audience it needs so they don't need to focus on stuff like appealing to adolescent teenagers.
It seems to me that a lot of people here never did any game development, theory or marketing and it's causing a lot of confusion
BTW if I offended anyone I'm really sorry.
I was just expressing my opinion and if you think it's wrong that's alright.
Guys, I think we should stop the discussion here.
No point in arguing, since both sides don't want to give up their point of view.
Let's just let it go and all live in peace happily ever after
Ok its time for the inferior artists to pitch on the PA issue.
Sometimes, creating an 'attractive or hot' is not an issue, but just another form of beauty that is being expressed.
I.E. look at windrunner or qop, which are, each are in their own way considered "dota 2 hotties". No body ever objected at a qop set that exposes skin.
THe problem I see with the Pa cleavage isnt the fact that a cleavage is there, it is the fact that the cleavage IS SO FORCED. its out of context, and has no flow with the rest of the set. It seems like it is intentionally there just to provide the attraction, which is where the problem arises from.
just looking at them makes me feel bad for pa. SO UNCOMFORTABLE !
I want to remind that this is the fantasy genre! It's all that can not be real, but beautiful in full .. Almost all the gear all the characters is useless in a real fight, the shape of the swords to the helmet. In real battles not anything beautiful.
Ok its time for the inferior artists to pitch on the PA issue.
Sometimes, creating an 'attractive or hot' is not an issue, but just another form of beauty that is being expressed.
I.E. look at windrunner or qop, which are, each are in their own way considered "dota 2 hotties". No body ever objected at a qop set that exposes skin.
I think it is because she is a succubus who uses her "exposed skin" as a weapon.
Hi everyone! Sorry for interrupting the discussion but I'm in need of some feedback
Making a staff for natures prophet. Here's some in-game screenshots and a marmoset render.
I think you could save a lot of polys and round out the mushrooms a lot by using alpha planes for their tops.
I also think the stems need to be different color to separate it more.
I want to remind that this is the fantasy genre! It's all that can not be real, but beautiful in full .. Almost all the gear all the characters is useless in a real fight, the shape of the swords to the helmet. In real battles not anything beautiful.
I guess the community gave you the idea of what they think about your views. But instead of changing that armorplate you simply uploaded the files again.
Thanks for the feedback badcogg! I belive I already fixed the problems whit the polygon count. I really wanted to avoid alpha for This project as it has given me a bit of a hard time in my previous work.
I Will experimentet with the color of the stems though
Hello polycounters, I made a post earlier about this which seems to have gotten lost in the ether, my fault entirely, but if it resurfaces I can only apologise for the double post.
I am having an issue exporting to Dota using Max 2015's fbx exporter. As you can see in the following images, exporting an xformed mesh results in the correct location, but wrong scale, and exporting a mesh where the scale has been copied from the base mesh provided by valve results in the right scale and wrong location.
Obviously my art is too sumptuous and beautiful to be manhandled like this, does anyone know what I've missed here?
THe problem I see with the Pa cleavage isnt the fact that a cleavage is there, it is the fact that the cleavage IS SO FORCED. its out of context, and has no flow with the rest of the set. It seems like it is intentionally there just to provide the attraction, which is where the problem arises from.
just looking at them makes me feel bad for pa. SO UNCOMFORTABLE !
@TheIceHeLater: I would try integrating the mushrooms a bit more. Add some glowy moss or something like that. And maybe make the mushrooms a bit lighter on top, with some white speckles.
I am having an issue exporting to Dota using Max 2015's fbx exporter.
Did you try to just use fbx 2012/2013/2014 by changing it in the fbx export settings?
Often engines have errors if you use an fbx version that's not supported yet.
Replies
Well with evasion granted from Blur, being heavily armored is less of a concern... and fashion
Making a staff for natures prophet. Here's some in-game screenshots and a marmoset render.
It seems like you are trying to squeeze out too much detail, or maybe just too many mushrooms. The issue i have with it is upclose you can see a lot of the edges of the geometry. maybe a few less shrooms so you can give some more edges to some of the other shrooms. And I think it needs a nice value shift/gradient going from the bottom up, it seems like there is one, but maybe its just a bit too subtle for my tastes
You should always add to the base model but when you start taking away, you are have to be aware that you are going stepping past the cutoff point for customization. Sometimes it can be in good taste and work. But as a general rule its probably not advisable
amen.
No I haven't, and yep, that's some sexualized male armor all right. At least they're equal-opportunity about it. I can't say the same for the majority of games out there though; which is partially why game playing demographics are so male dominated. Something I'm hoping will change soon.
No need to be rude. There's something... off... about claiming to know what women want in a game while also dismissing the opinion of the only woman currently in the discussion XD.
And you haven't responded to a couple of questions I asked earlier:
-Does it fit PA's character/would she wear that into a battle?
-Or is it meant to be titillating to the (male) viewer?
-Do you really believe [the female tera] armor was designed to appeal to women? (The male armor puts this more in context as a highly sexualized game overall, but the question still stands)
No, I can't, and actually the original vengeful spirit was my least-liked design out of all the heroes and that was partially why. I was hoping they'd change that more with the rework but they didn't.
@hawf Well how can we not draw something of relation from the game we're talking about? Should we completely disregard the game in the discussion of if something fits the game?
I deleted two mushrooms and got enough tris to impove the silhouette a great deal. Thanks for the wake up call
I didn't mean to be rude and for that I whole-heartedly apologize. Though I don't think that I really dismissed Artypi's opinion either, I initially called her out because of a generalizing statement she made and I didn't even consider if she was male or female - my issue was more so her critique of the integrity of the item itself and not about her personal preferences for armor.
As for your questions.... I really don't have a problem with some characters showing skin in battle. Some male Dota characters do it with even less armor and they are in the thick of battle even more than PA. PA is supposed to lurk in the shadows until she sees an opportunity to blink out and strike. If she was meant to face tough melee characters one on one or be present in battle more than she is then I would totally agree with you. But as it stands she doesn't need her entire body covered in armor and it looks like most of her armor is either ceremonial or just to conceal her appearance so she can hide in the dark. Having a little less armor in one spot is pretty lore-friendly. If it was a more battle prone woman like Legion Commander then I'd take issue with it. Look at Templar Assassin; she is in battle just as much as Phantom Assassin is(if not more) but you can see the top of her chest on her base model because it works in the right context. They are both assassins with melee-oriented evasion/guard skills.
I think in a game like Tera there's a lot to be said about the intended sexual connotations of their armor(or lack there of). I was just playing devil's advocate by showing you that indeed both sexes are hyper-sexualized in that game. I'm not a fan of the look myself and I don't think you can really compare the sexuality of characters in Tera to characters in Dota.
Anyway, I finished yesterday the high poly for my set collab with Mango. Now, polypaint time!
Please let me know what you think
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1702826&postcount=2
Aside from that I am in love with this set
It's like expecting girl games with ponies and glitter to have guns and gore. Not happening, so live with it.
Cant wait for this, I really like it! Edit: I agree with Konras, the bevel will help with the bakes
thats a terrible attitude
And try not to use pure white in any game textures ,It will look old school and dirty in game .
update ; uploaded the puck set
workshop link : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=265020341
ace! Great job of the textures, I'm impressed you managed to squeeze so much information into puck's tiny texture dimensions. good work!
valve makes it very clear how much clothing they want their characters to have at the bare minimum by the base model and anything else is pushing it too far
like I said before, pa has armor in her base model for a reason imo. Her being armored is clearly an integral part of her base design and it makes no sense to try and twist her into something else
edit: i was agreeing with you mugenmcfugen
On other hand imagine if every dota 2 hero was bare naked in base model? That would be some funny shit. xD
Good to see some ART in this thread :P Good job Mihal! Love the direction this one took, very unique!
yeah this is a really shit way of thinking and I'd certainly say it's part of the problem so don't tell us to "live with it"
Some of you people have really warped thoughts. Geez.
Every single comment made after is a blanket statement built on stereotypes that contain zero proof, evidence,or critical thinking behind them.
As this is a community forum, please consider the opinion of others, and back up statements with facts.
Your opinion is so half-baked it hardly warrants a response. I figured you should at least know that, though.
personally i think is quite funny to see this 2 thing pop out from there XD
- I'm not oppose the cleavage showcase on armor thing , in fact i actually like it teehee.(big fan of shunya yamashita's work)
- but then normally i like that on female who wear light armor or leather type armor, not bulky chest armor like PA, it looks like force out the boobs from there. Partly because the chest part armor is 1 piece and it is very plain.
- from the set, somehow the helmet is large, shoulder pad also looks large, weapon doesn't count because in normal MMO weapon normally as larga as fuck you can go. Back to the size thing, because the things i mentioned looks large ( and HEAVY) so the breast part really looks very big difference and weird there. (another thing, i prefer you add 1 more style for the boobs armor with change the colour to grey to match the grey metal colour of PA)
- if want to show cleavage, i'd rather reduce shoulder pad size to lighter, helmet maybe change to something like a crown or [A]'s PA Head Piece like this below -OR- Hood type those lighter armor to make whole gear design lighter.
- Back to Cleavage issue, most of them are mage class i believe... knight class or those heavy armor/ melee type i think normally show lesser chest.
just my 2 cent
First you're against cleavage and now you don't like that Valve doesn't use cheap tricks like that?
Pick a side and stick with it. =_="
I'm not saying Valve doesn't care about the game, they do (for fucks sake look at Dota, it's magnificent
It seems to me that a lot of people here never did any game development, theory or marketing and it's causing a lot of confusion
@mihalceanu: That looks great. Love the colors
I was just expressing my opinion and if you think it's wrong that's alright.
Guys, I think we should stop the discussion here.
No point in arguing, since both sides don't want to give up their point of view.
Let's just let it go and all live in peace happily ever after
Sometimes, creating an 'attractive or hot' is not an issue, but just another form of beauty that is being expressed.
I.E. look at windrunner or qop, which are, each are in their own way considered "dota 2 hotties". No body ever objected at a qop set that exposes skin.
THe problem I see with the Pa cleavage isnt the fact that a cleavage is there, it is the fact that the cleavage IS SO FORCED. its out of context, and has no flow with the rest of the set. It seems like it is intentionally there just to provide the attraction, which is where the problem arises from.
just looking at them makes me feel bad for pa. SO UNCOMFORTABLE !
I think it is because she is a succubus who uses her "exposed skin" as a weapon.
I think you could save a lot of polys and round out the mushrooms a lot by using alpha planes for their tops.
I also think the stems need to be different color to separate it more.
But I like it and it fits him well.
I guess the community gave you the idea of what they think about your views. But instead of changing that armorplate you simply uploaded the files again.
I Will experimentet with the color of the stems though
I am having an issue exporting to Dota using Max 2015's fbx exporter. As you can see in the following images, exporting an xformed mesh results in the correct location, but wrong scale, and exporting a mesh where the scale has been copied from the base mesh provided by valve results in the right scale and wrong location.
Obviously my art is too sumptuous and beautiful to be manhandled like this, does anyone know what I've missed here?
Ye, that's fucking it.
Did you try to just use fbx 2012/2013/2014 by changing it in the fbx export settings?
Often engines have errors if you use an fbx version that's not supported yet.