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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

15556586061189

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  • krayzie762
    well you said you had pinching and i also happened to notice that you have edges that split quads into tris, removing those edges would couse absolutely nothing to change with your model but will improve the quality of the turbosmooth
  • Tyrone Swart
    Hearing what you guys have said is quite painful as I now have to go through my whole model and redo all the support loops on the model and remake one or two things.

    BUT! None-the-less I thank you for giving me this terrible news xD it's the only way I am going to learn.

    So thanks to Quack!, s620ex1 and WarrenM

    EDIT: That actually didn't take as much time as I thought it would. Thanks again everyone! Not going to post another image because I don't want to clog up this thread. Might make a WIP thread for it at a later stage.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 13
    krayzie762 wrote: »
    well you said you had pinching and i also happened to notice that you have edges that split quads into tris, removing those edges would couse absolutely nothing to change with your model but will improve the quality of the turbosmooth
    I said it was a small amount and it worked.

    As for the tris, here's why I'm not doing traditional support edges in those areas:

    ajmm.jpg

    Same thing applies for all areas. Most of the geo on the helmet is curved so I'm getting a hard edge that I don't want. By doing tris I don't have to bother with extra edges that I can easily avoid. And the smoothing is essentially the same. For that piece I couldn't have tris at the top though (breaks the mesh really bad, top one on the pic below) so I had to go for something like this (bottom one):

    05n9.jpg

    A little weird maybe but it works.
  • AlexCatMasterSupreme
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    AlexCatMasterSupreme interpolator
    Would you mind posting the control mesh wires?
  • krayzie762
    listen man, you didnt understand what i was talking about. You have tris there that u dont need lol.

    05n9.jpg
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    He DOES need those. If you remove that loop, the corner will be rounded instead of sharp.
  • Stromberg90
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    Stromberg90 polycounter lvl 11
    Snader I don't think he means removing the loop only that edge.
    So it becomes a "quad" but it does not really matter, since it won't change the shape or anything really.
  • Un_dead
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    Un_dead polycounter lvl 11
    Hey guys, I've been having a lot of trouble with this shape... I've done it it multiple different ways, but it still doesn't come out the way I want it to.
    Now, I know that "ADD MOAR GEO!!" isn't going to work here, as I need to keep the shape as simple as possible, so please, if anyone has any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated :)
    help_low_high_wire.png

    help_high_highlights.png

    Basically, I'm trying to cut the circular holes into the curved surface of the mount below.

    p1011702.jpg
  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 16
    Un_dead: seems like some of the verts are not welded which is causing some of the pinching effect. Also the edges right above the circle is too close to it.
  • supaclueless
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    supaclueless polycounter lvl 13
    @Un_dead:

    did a quick and rough version to show you how i did it, i will admit that i do not have the best modelling methods but this is one way I would tackle this part, hope this helps

    Main thing to note is to avoid insets on curvature imo, will prevent some mucky situations where you need to fiddle around to not get pinching, i also avoided chamfering as it is hard to modify changes to chamfers when compared to control loops.

    how_to_1.jpg
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 13
    krayzie762 wrote: »
    listen man, you didnt understand what i was talking about. You have tris there that u dont need lol.

    05n9.jpg
    Oh right. Yeah, good point. I guess that's cleaner but not something that changed my smoothing. Removed the edges for the sake of cleanliness though. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
  • krayzie762
  • tonyd927
    Having a little problem that I cant seem to get rid of with this part of a m1911.
    This is the groove where the hammer goes,, maybe Im just being REALLY picky but there's a slight pinch I cant get rid of

    EDIT: Also, the grooves on the slide of the m1911, any ideas how to do that lol

    34t9xrn.jpg
  • Mr.Ferret
    Hi all first post on this lovely forum, been lurking for years. First time I've tried to do a full on hard surface model with turbo smooth etc. Ive usually just done mobile stuff but wanted to have a crack at some next gen workflow. The idea for the model I'm working on at the moment is to create the high poly to bake down normal maps (and to use in an animation) with a realtime low poly model to come later on.

    As you can (hopefully) make out I'm making an A-Wing from Star Wars. Now I've got 2 areas that I'm not happy with (so far) and need some advice.


    First is this side bit

    Reference

    This is mine unsmoothed

    htwyWM7.png


    And with smoothing,

    dBSPVJr.png


    Isoline on

    rwU1GJo.png

    Now as you can see I'm getting some pinching, yet i did my darnedest to avoid triangles, it might be to do with the alignment but i think its more to do with the supporting edge loops but I'm not too sure, anyone know a better way to do something like this?

    Second part

    Another Reference image


    Im trying to get that dip on the side white bits onto the burgundy fuselage it needs to be smooth over the top and hard down the side, now i had no idea how to have it sweep to meet the body without using triangles, and how to keep it straight down with out adding tons of complexity to the REST of the model through the edge loops

    Unsmoothed

    Ybzdi84.png


    Smoothed with Isoline

    KWxnSDF.png

    So any suggestions on a better way to do that would be appreciated.


    And lastly a few overview pictures, you can see how the side inset bit mucks up some of the flow of the body

    xieg1Q1.png

    and unsmoothed with edges on

    mIysIpV.png


    Sorry for the overly long post and if my pictures are too big etc etc.
  • Sir Apple
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    Sir Apple polycounter lvl 8
    I don't know why, but this tire tread pattern is giving me difficulties. I'm trying to figure out how to build the pattern for easy tile and duplication.

    Any ideas? Its a fairly easy pattern, but the harsh zig-zag running down the center is throwing me.

    Mi54QE2.jpg
    fAtYy6D.jpg



    Much thanks! :)
  • krayzie762
  • sasuki
    Hello! :)

    Having some problems with this shape

    sn_03.jpg

    sn_01.jpg
  • natec
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    natec polycounter lvl 17
    Sir Apple - There are a bunch of posts on tires in this thread, here is one:
    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1505700#post1505700

    yours is similar, but more simplified. Make 1/2 of one tread, mirror and offset it. Use that to duplicate all the way around for a complete tire....
  • krayzie762
    what you are trying to do must be done in this way

    Untitled_1.jpg
  • koczek
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    koczek polycounter lvl 7
    Hi,

    I haven't done any 3D in some months now, and now I am stuck with this little piece :(
    hammer1_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
    Any idea how to do this?

    Thanks
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx quad damage
    Koczek, more references could help you and us. Show us what you've got so far and it'll be easier to help you fix the problem! =)
  • koczek
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    koczek polycounter lvl 7
    wirrexx wrote: »
    Koczek, more references could help you and us. Show us what you've got so far and it'll be easier to help you fix the problem! =)

    Hi Wirrexx,

    Ok, so here are some more references.
    hammer2_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
    img_2993.jpg_thumbnail0_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
    img_3009.jpg_thumbnail0_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
    img_3012.jpg_thumbnail0_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
    safety_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

    So, I give it another go and this is what I have now:
    hammer.blend (click to view in 3D)
    placeholder-cf12ddf81452f1ab60c26695a8ee994e1d64f381.png

    I was looking for a way to do the arched part at the left part of it.

    Thanks.

    Anyways, if anyone is looking for reference pics for Automag .44, I collected a handfull of images about it.

    Also, how can I correctly enter a Sketchfab model?
  • tonyd927
    feelin like a noob right now, I coulda sworn I saw this in this thread somewhere, but I cant find it. Any help with this piece?
    Capture_zpsd43da686.jpg
  • joeriv
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    joeriv polycounter lvl 7
    -I just took a random amount of edges, you will have to work out how many you need for that :p

    29o31nm.jpg

    1) Make a cylinder (having 1 cap segment is helpfull to make the selection)
    Select 2 edges, skip 2 (or you could do like 2-3, 1-2, depends on what you need) and scale them in as much as is needed
    2) remove the top
    3) with border selection pull it in, align all the vertices on 1 axis again.
    Then with loop tools -> circle, make a circle out of the inner part
    4-5) Select these inner edges and pull them up slightly untill the top part is even again
    6) add control loops, I always do this shape with quad chamfer (a script).
    If you don't have that, other options are to use that "doublesmooth" technique, or manually do chamfers.
  • koczek
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    koczek polycounter lvl 7
    I have amended it a bit:
    hammer.blend (click to view in 3D)
    thumbnail_448.png
  • Yury
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    Yury polycounter lvl 8
    tonyd927 wrote: »
    feelin like a noob right now, I coulda sworn I saw this in this thread somewhere, but I cant find it. Any help with this piece?
    Capture_zpsd43da686.jpg

    joeriv, I don't think that this object has concave edges, looks more like a nut shape with flat edges to me

    NUT.jpg
  • tonyd927
    Yury wrote: »
    joeriv, I don't think that this object has concave edges, looks more like a nut shape with flat edges to me

    NUT.jpg

    Thanks joeriv! :)

    this is a little closer to what I was aiming for. Could you possibly give me a breakdown of this?

    Did you make just a cylinder and chamfer the edges?

    EDIT: actually I'll figure this out. thank you though! :)
  • tonyd927
    Next part (my previous post will help me I believe with this, but just needed some pointers)

    The grooves on the side of this part, is it normal to model them in or just add them in PS or ndo2 or something?
    The part in blue, how would I go about adding this in?

    Capture_zpsb1423427.jpg

    here's a silly attempt im working on.
    Basically what Im doing is modeling the groove itself from a box, then I will bridge/cap the holes once I get a desired shape...seems to be taking a longer time than anticipated

    Capture_zps39cbabed.jpg
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    In a bit of a nutshell, Cause I'm bored:

    1. 36 Sides.

    2. Inset

    3. Select 5 sides, Scale localy, Skip a face, repeat

    4. Select Corner verts, use Select similar to get all 12 easily.

    5. Move them on the Z.

    6. Repeat with the other sides.

    7. Select verts on edges closest to corner, Again, select similar is your friend.

    8. With edge constraints on, Scale

    9. Again, With edge constraints, Scale the other verts to make an appealing curve.

    10. Support/Chamfer/extrude your hole

    11. Dodge all the panties

    CjezAc.gif
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    @ The post above my last:

    You could use the method Pedro mentioned for making nice flat head bolts, And kinda invert it. Should turn out fine for a bake. On the sides, you can either do Ddo, Floats, Or honestly, Just start from the outside edge, model all the dips in and out, an inset in toward center indent. Then use the method below for the center. Too tired to do that out atm.

    Pedro's method found here: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1844239&postcount=2877

    NDIPBK.gif
  • tonyd927
    thanks man! think i got it! :D

    wip1_zps31dffd8f.png

    I know my edges might be tight, im waiting for racer445 to post his famous picture
  • VisanCosmin
    hy guys how do you model this fence in 3ds max??plasa-gard-zinc-gmg-1-8x10-ml_1610.jpg
  • WarrenM
    What did you try so far?
  • NanoTurtle
    Here's how I did it: (in blender though, should be similar to max)

    EIyUhDg.png

    1) Added a path and gave it that shape. Then I rotated it 45 degrees.
    I also set the thickness and roundness to whatever I liked.

    2) Elevated the middle part.

    3) Added an array modifier to get a long wire.

    4) Added another array modifier to add more wires. Had to play around with the values so there'd be no clipping.

    5) converted the path to geom and applied all the modifiers.
    Stretched it so it tiles.
    Deleted most of the geom I didn't need.

    6) Exported it for baking.
  • Pedro Amorim
    sasuki wrote: »
    Hello! :)

    Having some problems with this shape

    sn_03.jpg

    sn_01.jpg

    [SKETCHFAB]4LRNnY9tjRVt8W4Nc17wA69iqYP[/SKETCHFAB]

    shape.jpg

    http://www.edgesize.com/crap/shape.obj
  • tonyd927
    having some difficulties with this shape:
    it's not just a simple ended piece, it curves to fit the bottom of the slide, and the rail system almost tapers...cant seem to get a right polygon flow here.

    front_part_zpsa5f7480a.jpg

    and here's the ref:

    Limited-Edition-Silver-Anniversary-Glock-17-Gen4-Pistol-4_zpsa2852302.jpg
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    I'd delete the inner part up to where you have the dead end loops, Then on the remaining borders verts, Run a spherize modifier so they are perfectly cylindrical, Then between shft+extrude and a bit of scaling, you should be able to get the inner part to be a perfect circle and have no dead end loops.

    Sorry i can't paint over, or model out an example. Not at the comp atm. Hope that helps a bit. Will just be faster to delete and rebuild than adjust it to look ok. And will have a better result.
  • Arion
    Thank you for explaining things.
  • sasuki

    Wow! Thank you so much for your help and time! :thumbup:
  • tonyd927
    s620ex1 wrote: »
    I'd delete the inner part up to where you have the dead end loops, Then on the remaining borders verts, Run a spherize modifier so they are perfectly cylindrical, Then between shft+extrude and a bit of scaling, you should be able to get the inner part to be a perfect circle and have no dead end loops.

    Sorry i can't paint over, or model out an example. Not at the comp atm. Hope that helps a bit. Will just be faster to delete and rebuild than adjust it to look ok. And will have a better result.

    Im not sure if im following ya haha. Still confused :(

    Is this what you mean? Also, this turbosmooths like complete shit. Not getting good results no matter where I add supporting geo :poly118:

    front_part_zps1f1e8463.jpg

    there's literally over 50 people on polycount that have made a glock...you guys got any pointers??
  • joeriv
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    joeriv polycounter lvl 7
    "Not getting good results no matter where I add supporting geo"

    would probably be a good idea to post your best try and then show where it's pinching/not doing what you hoped to.
    Only thing I can really say atm is that you probably want to chamfer/add a loop here, because just adding 2 control edges to a angle like this is usually not gonna smooth nicely, it will almost always be a sharp point.

    669p.jpg


    Does anyone have some tips for stuff like this (the knot), mainly to save time, I could do it with just using a spline and adding points/refining it, but that's gonna take quite a while.

    yya1.jpg
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    tonyd927 wrote: »
    Im not sure if im following ya haha. Still confused :(

    Is this what you mean? Also, this turbosmooths like complete shit. Not getting good results no matter where I add supporting geo :poly118:


    there's literally over 50 people on polycount that have made a glock...you guys got any pointers??

    My point before was if you create the inner cylindrical portion before you support your other geometry, You won't have the right amount of sides to have an "uninterrupted" curve. I'll explain what I mean (hopefully)

    The border in brighter green(minus one edge, my bad) right now is making a perfect half circle. It has X amount of sections that are all equally spaced from each other, so they will turbo smooth evenly. If this was the end of it, You'd be fine! But unfortunately, Like you saw, you have to run the support loops for the rail(that recessed portion on your model) somewhere (lines in blue). If you just end them, like you did, You will create N-gon's on the middle of a curved surface, which will create errors. On the other hand, if you run them into the perfectly cylindrical portion you have, you will interrupt the curve and break the curvature of the circle when it's smoothed. (The lines in red on the image).


    My only suggestion is to delete the faces shaded in green, Run your control loops like normal, Then select every vert on the border and spherize them. Spherize will take every vert selected and space them equally in the shape of a circle (sphere?) based on their center.



    ewf1tB.png





    If you still have problems post the file as an OBJ and I (someone) could show you how to resolve the end.


    and +1 to chamfer.



    @Joeriv: I don't think there is a wicked fast way to make that, But personally I'd do it in zbrush . It will be pretty much the same idea as doing it point by point with splines, But it will be easy just to push and pull around the path in zbrush.
  • Stormfreek
    Haven't got back to the tire, will do that soon hopefully and post my solution :)

    I have another problem, someone on my polycount thread made me realise I forgot some indents on the top of my weapon, but I'm struggling to see how I can add geo to it without messing up the smoothing. Was just going to add it into the normal map, but then I realised I may as well get this right. Pics and at the end the obj of the dust cover:

    Photo%20064.jpg
    vfc.png
    vu18.png
    NJNLZbW.png

    A few smoothin errors I have to deal with but most of the shape is alright!

    Any way I can get this shape without having to remodel it? Thanks guys!

    Obj: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16400376/ak47u/dustcover.obj
  • joeriv
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    joeriv polycounter lvl 7
    Just quickly did it to get you started/get the idea across, so it's not perfect/to the ref, but with some tweaking and checking your ref it shouldn't be to hard.

    Basicly add edge loops (in green)(you can start with 2, if it's pinching a bit, add more).
    And everytime you add a loop push them out a bit to get your rounding back. (you can shift click with shift+swift loop or do it manually, but be carefull that it doesn't ruin other parts).

    Or just chamfer the middle symmetry edge, haven't tried that, but also a possibility.

    Also you are missing some edge loops in the area in the bottom right.

    m3s9.jpg
  • Stormfreek
    You are an absolute star joeriv, thank you :)

    Having a bit of an issue trying to get this to smooth correctly however, not sure how to run my edge loops:


    4EsWMjd.png

    Thanks so much man :)
  • joeriv
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    joeriv polycounter lvl 7
    Lots of options:

    The one on the left, you shouldn't do it that way because it has a triangle, but just wanted to show that if you need more loops you can just route them down to the bottom.

    The on on the right, if you do it that way, make sure to pull that edge out a bit (the one that makes a quad) to keep the rounding
    jyul.jpg

    Another thing:
    I would really suggest doing an inset here:

    Left: Different widths, you can add as much loops on the green line/part, the edge width after smoothing will never be equal (since it always smooths between edges), and it just wont be like nice and clean/even

    Rigth: after a inset, a nice even spacing between there wich causes a nice equal edge.

    if this causes a tighter edge then you want:
    -larger inset, and make sure to make the edge loop on the other part further
    -At then end if you are done, add a nice thick chamfer.

    wud8.jpg
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    For whatever reason, i couldn't import/fix the model to not have creased edges, Which is apparently on my end sense Joeriv got it to smooth fine. So i can't show you how it smoothed here, But it should be fine (from the smoothing i can see). Could be lower/use some adjustment, But you can tweak all that all you want.

    The initial cut just needs to be an 8 sided cylinder. Enable snapping. Right click on the snaps button and enable vert snapping. Then from the top view just use the cutting tool to hit the points around the clyinder.


    40r97w.png

    zGI9Fe.png

    6KqxXB.png
  • joeriv
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    joeriv polycounter lvl 7
    ah yes, that's just a weird max thing with obj's, to fix that.
    import -> add a editable poly modifier -> collapse -> solved
  • Stormfreek
    Again, awesome stuff man, you are a gem :)

    It has gotten a bit harder on that side, but I think with a little bit of tweaking I can make it smoother. Here is this updated dustcover if anyone needs it in the future or wants to take a look!

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16400376/ak47u/dustcoverfixed.obj

    @s620ex1: That is another way to do it :) Thanks all!
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    Ah. Only thing i didn't try. Tried the smooth trick, Export and reimport. Forgot about the edit poly modifier. Thanks.

    not perfect. But should be fine. And is a bit easier than adding two loops in the middle that shape. Ideally, you should have started with more geo so you could do what Joeriv showed.


    xgQbs2.png
15556586061189
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