well, i managed to get some mudboxing done. maybe i'll be able to do some more today, dunno.
how does it look?
trying to resist hitting the subdivide button before going in to sculpt. that used to be one of my problems.
all advice is more than welcome.
once again, thanks for all the support!
hey guys,
could u advise me on where and how the cloth should crease and fold? i'm having trouble recreating the cloth on this guy. any tips on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
It all depends on how big his gown is (does it fit loosely, or is it tight) and what fabric it's made of. Different fabrics will fold differently. You should figure out what type of fabric your character is wearing and try observing how that particular type folds when people wear it (you can search online clothing stores). Some fabrics wrinkle a lot and even when they are not folded the wrinkles are still there. Also observe if there are wrinkles and folds around the stitches. Some fabric create a lot of tiny wrinkles around the seams, and yet some do not. The folds will also depend on the pose, and all the straps and belts that are over it. Just do as much observation as you can, that will help you create more realistic cloth.
awesomness! a paintover!
thanks fogmann, that's a great reference to look at.and thanks for the tips too!
well, i decided to try my hand at doing the cloth on one arm, and now i thought i'd post it up here for some crits [and BOY will i need some lol].
does it look anything like cloth, or more like dripping mud/scarred tissue/nothing?
it'll take me some attempts to get a hang of it i think. but any tips would be great!
by the way, i made a 'fake deadline' for myself, that being yesterday. Guess it isn't easy to do a character in 2 weeks! [then again, i didn't work 8hrs a day on him...] lol.
i think you need to follow thru more with each fold sculpt. Some of them stop short and look like a stone etching than a cloth wrinkle. get a long sleeve shirt and ruffle it up and take some ref. shots to look off for the shoulder, it'd help a lot. ne ways, your making great progress.
yeah I think its the same issue as your dom war sculpting, be bold . do it on a new layer and you can always pull it back if you go too far, so theres no reason not to . good progress though!
sorry, been busy with,.... a book.... a very... nice book....
but alright, i will do as suggested. break away from my timid strokes and 'go crazy'. i was just thinking that the wrinkling would be less cuz the clothes would be 'kinda' tight. he's an assassin, so i can't see him tripping over himself?
Looking good IB, I'm really impressed that you have stuck with it and how much your skill has improved even in such a short time as the Dom War!
Going back to the hands, one thing that really sells Bens hands isn't only the extra loops around the knuckles but the shape they bring to each joint. Simply adding the loops helps when animating but forcing those loops to help define the shape of the finger is critical.
thanks Vig! love the motivation. the credit actually belongs to polycount... there was this other community i was a part of for 2 years.... didn't help me a bit... i spend a while over here and BAM!
well, apart from that, i'll go into the hands again, add some shape to the knucle regions then. however this update isn't about the hands, its about:
the BAGS!
how do they look? in the refs, they kinda look like a stiff leather, i dunno if i pulled it off? oh, and is the pinch tool bad?
tell me what you think!
and how's the cloth looking?
cloth is looking good, but it's all relative to the type of cloth you want to pull off. Right now it's coming across as something very thin with a high thread-count... light and airy. If you're going for something heavier, a coarse wool or similar, the folds need to be less frequent and much larger.
bags are looking fine... the fine details will help sell leather, ie: cracks and such. Make sure to put in the stitching, as well. Everyone loves stitches.
thanks for the comment Sectaurs. Well, actually, i was thinking about the cloth type, and here's what i figured:
the guy does assassinations, and relies on parcour [free running] which is extremely tiring. Coupled to this, he makes his 'hits' in the Middle East and other Crusades-affected regions, so its hot hot hot. Therefore, the cloth _has_ to be thin... right? that's why i made the wrinkling alot on the arms. as for the torso cloth, i figured that his belt would be pulling it down and tightening it out... right?
as for the bags, i thought of adding the cracks using photoshop-plugins. good idea? and the stitches.... where would the world be without them! then again, i figure it would read better if i did the stitches in photoshop aswell.
before u guys think that all i've done today is be a boob at the 'wat r u working on' thread, just notifying that i tried unwrapping the character today. got pretty far [think i've got a hang of pelt mapping].
till i post something up, comments and crits on wat is already up is more than welcome... hell, its wanted.
btw: i think i've learned a bit from that model i made in the 'wat r u working on' thread... it might help me improve this model. but if not, keep the c&c coming!
Hey dude, looking nice! I both like and dislike the folds in your sculpt. Some areas look really nice and flow like cloth, while other areas seem to be really muddy and swiss cheese.
The way I usually do folds, I'll take reference photos of me wearing something made up of similar material. Then based off that I'll replicate it the best I can.
With time, you'll get used to doing cloth folds and will no longer need reference material, because you will understand how it flows.
Keep up the good work dude.
cheese?! oh noes! now im hungry. lol, okay, i'll look into the sculpting then. i guess i'll have to take pics of myself then. thanks for the advice!
alrighty:
the UV template thus far. i've done the body and the head, only the accessories are left. i think i've got enough tex space left for those. i'll do em later though. as of now, back to the sculpting.
btw: its 1024*. good size?
all crits and comments are welcome. even if they're four letter words.
EDIT: and im guessing its the right arm that's really nasty and needs to be redone?
hows this:
and what else do i have left to sculpt? his head? is that it? im confused.
oh and i did a normals projection test, and i learned two things im happy about:
a) my new computer can churn over 2million polygons at least.
b) the cloth is coming out nice with the current UV template. YAY!
cheers.
PS: im planning on adding intricate normals details through Photoshop btw.
that is an... interesting unwrap. might want to give it another go, specifically, his torso/robe section. Looking at the hood, parts are squished, parts are stretched. have you tried putting on the old checker pattern to see how it stands up? your parts seem to be turned randomly - not really saving any space, and will most likely just make it harder when it comes to painting. Also, you're giving everything unique texture space except the face. why mirror the face, if nothing else? thats sort of backwards. the hands look like they'll be a pain in the ass to get any sort of detail in them, as the fingers taper down to a few smeared pixels.
So, you don't have to, of course. But I'd give it another go.
lol, i could actually imagine the expression u said that with.... 'interesting' lol!
alright, lemme try and justify some of those before i scrap the whole template, and see if the 'start over' can be modified into 'change these.' Umm. the rotated robe/torso helped in reducing the strething at the side. The stretchiness of the hood has been fixed. I'm half-blind for not noticing the glaring assymetry. Randomly turned parts. well they were indeed randomly turned, and i don't see this being the final positions. as for mirroring the head. I figured that this guys head is hardly seen, and when it is, its almost completely shaded, so why 'bother' giving the head completely unique space. I can imagine the hands being a pain. how should i fix that up? is it a geometry thing or a UV thing?
oh, and by checker, did u mean this:
cuz then... yeah i did.
don't worry about telling me to scrap the whole thing. i'm many things but im _not_ a slacker. well, unless its maths homework... but who LIKES that?
@frostymoose: thanks! needless to say, words like that keep me going !
That unwrap is looking a little messy and could be adjusted a whole lot to use up all that space! The part I don't understand is why you've got the face mirrored to conserve space, but you have both hands unwrapped separately. If anything, I would have done it the other way around. The face will be looked far more than the hands will, so it calls for me UV real estate.
Here's a quick re-arrange of your current unwrap to show you how I would have done it (leaving a bit of room seeing as you mentioned some accessories).
The creases for the belt/strap are looking really bizarre, almost as if it has been welded onto the body. The creases don't flow out back into flat cloth. It just bubbles around the belt/strap.
Keep at it.
hmm well it seems that mirroring the head was not a good idea, so i decided to get rid of that. I sorta modelled my new unwrap around what u showed me caseyjones [thanks for that by the way, its a great help] and i managed to fix most parts up. there is a bit less stretching in some parts, the head is not mirrored anymore, and there seems ample space to fit in the accessories. or so it seems.
it took me a while to get rid of some awful stretching, so i don't have a sculpt for you guys, but thanks for the advice on the new folds. i'll fix those up! here it is:
once again, thanks for all the help guys!
One thing i would say to you is to start over with your Mudbox work-flow. Take a look at reference photos of how cloth drapes over the body, and try to simulate that with your character. I think you are getting lost while using Mudbox, and you are adding wrinkles that are not reading correctly. Like on my Lillious character, I got lost in some of the characters creation, and strayed from the concept considerably, but with this, Altair, you cannot stray from what is right with clothing on a human character.(Because we all know what looks right and wrong with clothing, we see it every day.) Also, take a look at the general proportions of Altair, and try to make it as close as possible, Keep it up!
hi man, keep chugging away! however- it looks like you're pushing bits and pieces around without concentrating on the next important goal. Leave the folds for a bit and look at the stomach armour and acessories. The main thing cloth wise thats missing is the hood, I'd make it obvious that its not a one-piece suit- it also looks like his arms are poking out of some fabric vest/tunic thing. basically I would always be saying 'what can I do now that will make the biggest difference' and leave the tweaks till the last stretch.
keep it up!
@Spug: do u mean redo the whole mudboxing? or redo just certain parts of it? I'm actually doing some ref hunting, and as i see mistakes in my model, i slowly fix em up. thanks for the comment and suggestions by the way. i'll tke ur words into due consideration [im running out of ways to say thank u!]
@rooster: thanks for the suggestion man! as for the accessories and the stomach belt, i feel that the details are too fine, and most likely will not translate well into a normal map via projection, so i'm planning to save that for photoshopping. As for the accessories, they would have normalled information such as cracks in leather, and stitches... would those come out well? i'm just wondering, cuz i don't think my computer [the new one even] can handle the many sub-ds needed to add enough polies in certain regions to add certain details.
as for making the biggest difference:
tried making the hood look like a seperate entity, and also tried adding a sort of seam between the torso and the arms. just wondering, should the arm wrinkles affect the wrinkles in the armpit and breasts region? or does a thick seam normally make the two wrinklings look different?
thanks for all the help guys! i'd be nowhere without you!
as i wait for some comments, and regain energy from my worst week at work, "evar!" i decided to test out the normals map.. to see if it reads well.
the following has been projected without _any_ modifications to the original 'base' mesh:
seems okay to me.
im actually gonna try painting in the normals for the cloth seams, and the deco on the stomach-belt.
just wondering if anybody knows a tutoirla on how to use the ji styles' skin shader? im having problems with it:
"like the colouring is all weird. if i place the light [omni] right in front of the guy, the guy doesn't get lit. if i put the light all the way to the side, he kinda gets lit. diffse map in this case is just the occlusion map, while the normals map is the correct normals map, and all these problems happen. there is no 'sub-map' or anything, just editing the different tabs of the shader.
When you downloaded the shader, it came with all the Default maps to make the shader work.
Just go to the material editor, and place the default maps into the correct slot, and you'll character will be lit correctly (should be an orangish colour I believe)
Once you render out your normals and spec, you can put them in the slots instead of the default maps.
oh! thank you very much! got the thing working yay!
===
update:
got my hands on Zbrush 3. its much better than mudbox... runs faster, smoother and i can get more detail in i think. just wondering... where's the antialiasing?
anyways: any tips and advice is welcome! i hope interest hasn't faded in this project !
hmm... the lack of crits and put-downs and the lack of ppl ripping me apart or supplying suggestions makes it appear as though the model is looking good.
my mind is starting to say "hey this is a good high-res model.... its done!" while i have a feeling that its not. any tips and suggestions would be _really_ great... and much appreciated.
If you want *really* want harsh crits and put downs...
There's a lot wrong with your highpoly. It looks almost like you aren't trying at all -- you seem to know you need a strap in the detailing, so you just scribble in a mess that looks vaguely like a strap and move on. Your cloth looks nothing like it should. You sculpted wrinkles as just random high and low 'hills.' Vaguely cloth-y shapes, I guess, but it's blobby and messy -- Smooth things out, get hard creases, and follow some reference.
The straps themselves make no sense at all. They have very little depth, uneven edges, and the cloth right around them is completely bizarre. The bags on his back are completely awful -- the basic form is right, but instead of reasonable detail they're just covered in weird bulges and sloppiness. Right not it looks about as much like real cloth and form as ':)' looks like a real human face.
... Sorry to be harsh, but you keep begging for crits. To clarify a bit more, in case I haven't made myself clear enough, take a look at fogmann's paintover from page 2:
And then your update
It doesn't look like you paid any attention to what she was showing you at all. Fog's drawing had a sense of weight and form -- the cloth was flowing naturally and everything looked believable. Focus on that.
thanks for all the crits SupRore. it's extremely clear that my best option was to start over. once again, thanks for the honesty!
UPDATE:
spent some time on a completely new sculpt.
i've pointed out [rather badly] areas that i want crits on. they are possibly, the things i'm worst at. crits on other things are welcome aswell, but then again, i haven't really done much else.
once again, thanks for the brutality SupRore... would love some more of it! [at an acceptable level of course]
The cloth on the one arm you have done is an awful lot better than your last try, this is a definite improvement. Personally I'd have done them with symmetry on and then gone over to alter the other side later, to save time, but I guess either way works. As for the hood, it's looking a lot better, but some of the form of the sides is off, from the front view. Take a look at the forum thread Ghost-d linked -- if you'll notice, the hood is actually a little wider, and bows in near the front. More crits later, gotta go.
I'd also consider taking out the straps on your sculpt, and SubD modeling them in Max or Modo or something later.
as for turning symmetry on, well when i did that, things weren't turning out symetrical [possibly cuz the two sleeves are of different lengths?]
thanks for the tips
as for the link by Ghost-d... i can't believe i forgot to click on that link [long story]! just looked at it! thanks for the link man! and damn that guy gets to talk to jade raymond! i mean,.... :ahem: work for ubisoft.... :ahem: hmm... here's to dreaming i get into that company some day lol!
anyways, so i'm using those images as my source/ref for the cloth folds. its great help!
as for the straps, they're just temporary to give me an idea of where the straps are gonna be... they'll be made in Max later on... on top of a mid-res sculpt [my comp can't import the high res model... 2 gigs of ram and still says not enough memory?]
UPDATE:
how's it looking?
feel free to gun me down... i enjoy it.
Better UVs now . yeah your mudbox work is looking a bit too muddy and lumpy. Each shape should be carefully placed and defined accordingly, even in 3D sculpting. Thats why reference is sooo very very important all the time! I still battle with this all the time but it gets easier as you get more used to it
woah! first time in a while that i had to scroll down to find this thread lol!
anyways, yeah lol, Ghost-d linked that aswell... funny how i forgot to see that link! i'm now using that as a ref for the model... watching it extremely closely... extremely.
glad the UVs are looking better! and thanks for the tips about sculpting! i'll get on with spending more time on each form!
as for now:
OPDAYTE:
just added some seams and made the hood look more... seperated. and i noticed somethings that i should change, as per the reference, but as of now: my eyes are burning, and my tea beckons!
Hmmm... I would have one tip. Maybe you should make the "belt" separately. And I think that it would be better to make it in max first (so you have better control over the basic shape) and then import it to ZB to add details. + you can work on the belt as on a separate subtool and you can sculpt a nice "response" between the cloth and the belt (you know what I mean, the clothes are a bit pressed under the belt, wrinkles around). + now when you work on clothes around belt, you have to worry about the brush, whether your brush doesn´t affect also the belt.
And if you use projection modifier to bake normal maps, you can get much better result when it´s all separate objects, I guess.
lol, i wont be using projection modif in max. my max crashes when i import 1mill+ polies into it. [and i don't see why with 2 gigs of ram?] i'll be using xNormal.
as for making the belt seperate, that's a good idea. i don't know why it didn't hit me tbh lol. but yeah, i understand what u mean by 'response'... makes sense. but one thing i wondering, if i do make the belt a new subtool, is there a way of importing it into Zbrush 3 without losing the work i've already done? i really wanna finish this before school starts [sept 4], so the more time i save, the better.
thanks again!
oh small update, btw:
just fixed up the belt's shape, which'll amount to nothing if i decide to import a seperate sub-tool for the belt :P!
cheers!
and please do keep the ripping coming guys!
have you tried masking the belt? you should be able to achieve a much sharper edge for the leather (i assume it's leather), and better results for the cloth that way.
if you've already tried it, then model the belt sepperate :P
Hi there! Me again. Maybe this is what can help you adding the belt to your already edited .ztl file. http://www.zbrush.info/docs/index.php/Subtools#Appending_Subtools
Didn´t have time to try it myself, but I have a feeling that I´ve already seen the append function working this way in some video.
Hope it helps.
According to the max crashing - I have 1GB + 512MB RAM now (it´s 4 days now) and it works pretty well for me. But if you have some problems, and if you ever wanted to use projection, try to separate the model (for example torso) in ZB on the lowest level and export that part. Then go to higher level and export the highres version of the torso. After that you should be able to import both into max without any bigger problems.
oh my god would u look at the time! no, its not 12:11pm... its time to get off my lazy ass!
i dunno what made me stop working on this all of a sudden. possibly cuz i was having trouble with the append thingy... anyways, in a stroke of "brilliance" i figured out how to make things work. And i got the belt on my model ! now to get serious again [as much as i can with my 360 sitting right behind me ]
lets see if i can get things rolling tonight !
thanks for all the support guys. hope u haven't given up on me?
just a bit of work to make the new belt fit in. and u i worked on the back to make the response nicer. Tell me what u think! this baby still needs a ton of work lol!
btw: i'd imported this into mudbox to test something, and i noticed that my sculpts were REALLY REALLY deep. is that bad? because in Zbrush they look okay. maybe i should do a test render of a normals map?
from the sides the belt looks fantastic, from the front it doesn't look too great. belts should be fairly tight to the persons body, yours is miles out to the sides.
legs look way too long. or maybe the torso is too short? something doesn't look right from the front.
how close do you want this to come to the source material? grab the images someone linked to of the actual asset and lay it on top in photoshop... that'll tell you more than we can.
actually, looking now, i'd say that the legs are too thin in the front/back, and that the crotch is too high. the robes give a deceptive look, but fixing those parts should help a lot.
Replies
well, i managed to get some mudboxing done. maybe i'll be able to do some more today, dunno.
how does it look?
trying to resist hitting the subdivide button before going in to sculpt. that used to be one of my problems.
all advice is more than welcome.
once again, thanks for all the support!
could u advise me on where and how the cloth should crease and fold? i'm having trouble recreating the cloth on this guy. any tips on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
thanks!
Maybe something like this:
thanks fogmann, that's a great reference to look at.and thanks for the tips too!
well, i decided to try my hand at doing the cloth on one arm, and now i thought i'd post it up here for some crits [and BOY will i need some lol].
does it look anything like cloth, or more like dripping mud/scarred tissue/nothing?
thanks!
good / bad?
it'll take me some attempts to get a hang of it i think. but any tips would be great!
by the way, i made a 'fake deadline' for myself, that being yesterday. Guess it isn't easy to do a character in 2 weeks! [then again, i didn't work 8hrs a day on him...] lol.
but alright, i will do as suggested. break away from my timid strokes and 'go crazy'. i was just thinking that the wrinkling would be less cuz the clothes would be 'kinda' tight. he's an assassin, so i can't see him tripping over himself?
but alright, i'll work on going crazy then
thanks!
cloth seems to be my weak point in terms of sculpting, need to practice it a ton more lol!
Going back to the hands, one thing that really sells Bens hands isn't only the extra loops around the knuckles but the shape they bring to each joint. Simply adding the loops helps when animating but forcing those loops to help define the shape of the finger is critical.
well, apart from that, i'll go into the hands again, add some shape to the knucle regions then. however this update isn't about the hands, its about:
the BAGS!
how do they look? in the refs, they kinda look like a stiff leather, i dunno if i pulled it off? oh, and is the pinch tool bad?
tell me what you think!
and how's the cloth looking?
cheers
bags are looking fine... the fine details will help sell leather, ie: cracks and such. Make sure to put in the stitching, as well. Everyone loves stitches.
the guy does assassinations, and relies on parcour [free running] which is extremely tiring. Coupled to this, he makes his 'hits' in the Middle East and other Crusades-affected regions, so its hot hot hot. Therefore, the cloth _has_ to be thin... right? that's why i made the wrinkling alot on the arms. as for the torso cloth, i figured that his belt would be pulling it down and tightening it out... right?
as for the bags, i thought of adding the cracks using photoshop-plugins. good idea? and the stitches.... where would the world be without them! then again, i figure it would read better if i did the stitches in photoshop aswell.
just my thoughts.
thanks again!
till i post something up, comments and crits on wat is already up is more than welcome... hell, its wanted.
btw: i think i've learned a bit from that model i made in the 'wat r u working on' thread... it might help me improve this model. but if not, keep the c&c coming!
thanks
The way I usually do folds, I'll take reference photos of me wearing something made up of similar material. Then based off that I'll replicate it the best I can.
With time, you'll get used to doing cloth folds and will no longer need reference material, because you will understand how it flows.
Keep up the good work dude.
-caseyjones
alrighty:
the UV template thus far. i've done the body and the head, only the accessories are left. i think i've got enough tex space left for those. i'll do em later though. as of now, back to the sculpting.
btw: its 1024*. good size?
all crits and comments are welcome. even if they're four letter words.
EDIT: and im guessing its the right arm that's really nasty and needs to be redone?
and what else do i have left to sculpt? his head? is that it? im confused.
oh and i did a normals projection test, and i learned two things im happy about:
a) my new computer can churn over 2million polygons at least.
b) the cloth is coming out nice with the current UV template. YAY!
cheers.
PS: im planning on adding intricate normals details through Photoshop btw.
all crits welcome!
So, you don't have to, of course. But I'd give it another go.
alright, lemme try and justify some of those before i scrap the whole template, and see if the 'start over' can be modified into 'change these.' Umm. the rotated robe/torso helped in reducing the strething at the side. The stretchiness of the hood has been fixed. I'm half-blind for not noticing the glaring assymetry. Randomly turned parts. well they were indeed randomly turned, and i don't see this being the final positions.
oh, and by checker, did u mean this:
cuz then... yeah i did.
don't worry about telling me to scrap the whole thing. i'm many things but im _not_ a slacker. well, unless its maths homework... but who LIKES that?
@frostymoose: thanks! needless to say, words like that keep me going
how's the cloth looking now? just modified it a bit, especially at the part where the belt is.
looking for crits on the sculpt, as well as the checkered model.
cheers
Here's a quick re-arrange of your current unwrap to show you how I would have done it (leaving a bit of room seeing as you mentioned some accessories).
The creases for the belt/strap are looking really bizarre, almost as if it has been welded onto the body. The creases don't flow out back into flat cloth. It just bubbles around the belt/strap.
Keep at it.
-caseyjones
it took me a while to get rid of some awful stretching, so i don't have a sculpt for you guys, but thanks for the advice on the new folds. i'll fix those up! here it is:
once again, thanks for all the help guys!
hows the cloth looking now?
better? worse? needs some exaggeration?
and all other tips/comments/crits/insults/compliments are welcome too!
keep it up!
@rooster: thanks for the suggestion man! as for the accessories and the stomach belt, i feel that the details are too fine, and most likely will not translate well into a normal map via projection, so i'm planning to save that for photoshopping. As for the accessories, they would have normalled information such as cracks in leather, and stitches... would those come out well? i'm just wondering, cuz i don't think my computer [the new one even] can handle the many sub-ds needed to add enough polies in certain regions to add certain details.
as for making the biggest difference:
tried making the hood look like a seperate entity, and also tried adding a sort of seam between the torso and the arms. just wondering, should the arm wrinkles affect the wrinkles in the armpit and breasts region? or does a thick seam normally make the two wrinklings look different?
thanks for all the help guys! i'd be nowhere without you!
the following has been projected without _any_ modifications to the original 'base' mesh:
seems okay to me.
im actually gonna try painting in the normals for the cloth seams, and the deco on the stomach-belt.
"like the colouring is all weird. if i place the light [omni] right in front of the guy, the guy doesn't get lit. if i put the light all the way to the side, he kinda gets lit. diffse map in this case is just the occlusion map, while the normals map is the correct normals map, and all these problems happen. there is no 'sub-map' or anything, just editing the different tabs of the shader.
i think i just need a proper tutorial for it."
When you downloaded the shader, it came with all the Default maps to make the shader work.
Just go to the material editor, and place the default maps into the correct slot, and you'll character will be lit correctly (should be an orangish colour I believe)
Once you render out your normals and spec, you can put them in the slots instead of the default maps.
Hopefully this works out ok
Just saw this on ZBrushCentral:
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=49197
Hope it´ll help you as a high res. reference. Good luck.
===
update:
got my hands on Zbrush 3. its much better than mudbox... runs faster, smoother and i can get more detail in i think. just wondering... where's the antialiasing?
anyways: any tips and advice is welcome! i hope interest hasn't faded in this project
cheers
my mind is starting to say "hey this is a good high-res model.... its done!" while i have a feeling that its not. any tips and suggestions would be _really_ great... and much appreciated.
thanks for all ur help thus far guys.
There's a lot wrong with your highpoly. It looks almost like you aren't trying at all -- you seem to know you need a strap in the detailing, so you just scribble in a mess that looks vaguely like a strap and move on. Your cloth looks nothing like it should. You sculpted wrinkles as just random high and low 'hills.' Vaguely cloth-y shapes, I guess, but it's blobby and messy -- Smooth things out, get hard creases, and follow some reference.
The straps themselves make no sense at all. They have very little depth, uneven edges, and the cloth right around them is completely bizarre. The bags on his back are completely awful -- the basic form is right, but instead of reasonable detail they're just covered in weird bulges and sloppiness. Right not it looks about as much like real cloth and form as ':)' looks like a real human face.
... Sorry to be harsh, but you keep begging for crits. To clarify a bit more, in case I haven't made myself clear enough, take a look at fogmann's paintover from page 2:
And then your update
It doesn't look like you paid any attention to what she was showing you at all. Fog's drawing had a sense of weight and form -- the cloth was flowing naturally and everything looked believable. Focus on that.
thanks for all the crits SupRore. it's extremely clear that my best option was to start over. once again, thanks for the honesty!
UPDATE:
spent some time on a completely new sculpt.
i've pointed out [rather badly] areas that i want crits on. they are possibly, the things i'm worst at. crits on other things are welcome aswell, but then again, i haven't really done much else.
once again, thanks for the brutality SupRore... would love some more of it! [at an acceptable level of course]
cheers
The cloth on the one arm you have done is an awful lot better than your last try, this is a definite improvement. Personally I'd have done them with symmetry on and then gone over to alter the other side later, to save time, but I guess either way works. As for the hood, it's looking a lot better, but some of the form of the sides is off, from the front view. Take a look at the forum thread Ghost-d linked -- if you'll notice, the hood is actually a little wider, and bows in near the front. More crits later, gotta go.
I'd also consider taking out the straps on your sculpt, and SubD modeling them in Max or Modo or something later.
as for turning symmetry on, well when i did that, things weren't turning out symetrical [possibly cuz the two sleeves are of different lengths?]
thanks for the tips
as for the link by Ghost-d... i can't believe i forgot to click on that link [long story]! just looked at it! thanks for the link man! and damn that guy gets to talk to jade raymond! i mean,.... :ahem: work for ubisoft.... :ahem: hmm... here's to dreaming i get into that company some day lol!
anyways, so i'm using those images as my source/ref for the cloth folds. its great help!
as for the straps, they're just temporary to give me an idea of where the straps are gonna be... they'll be made in Max later on... on top of a mid-res sculpt [my comp can't import the high res model... 2 gigs of ram and still says not enough memory?]
UPDATE:
how's it looking?
feel free to gun me down... i enjoy it.
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=049197
perfect reference for what your trying to sculpt
Better UVs now
anyways, yeah lol, Ghost-d linked that aswell... funny how i forgot to see that link! i'm now using that as a ref for the model... watching it extremely closely... extremely.
glad the UVs are looking better! and thanks for the tips about sculpting! i'll get on with spending more time on each form!
as for now:
OPDAYTE:
just added some seams and made the hood look more... seperated. and i noticed somethings that i should change, as per the reference, but as of now: my eyes are burning, and my tea beckons!
any tips are welcome, as always!
cheers!
And if you use projection modifier to bake normal maps, you can get much better result when it´s all separate objects, I guess.
Hope it helps you. Good luck.
as for making the belt seperate, that's a good idea. i don't know why it didn't hit me tbh lol. but yeah, i understand what u mean by 'response'... makes sense. but one thing i wondering, if i do make the belt a new subtool, is there a way of importing it into Zbrush 3 without losing the work i've already done? i really wanna finish this before school starts [sept 4], so the more time i save, the better.
thanks again!
oh small update, btw:
just fixed up the belt's shape, which'll amount to nothing if i decide to import a seperate sub-tool for the belt :P!
cheers!
and please do keep the ripping coming guys!
if you've already tried it, then model the belt sepperate :P
http://www.zbrush.info/docs/index.php/Subtools#Appending_Subtools
Didn´t have time to try it myself, but I have a feeling that I´ve already seen the append function working this way in some video.
Hope it helps.
According to the max crashing - I have 1GB + 512MB RAM now (it´s 4 days now) and it works pretty well for me. But if you have some problems, and if you ever wanted to use projection, try to separate the model (for example torso) in ZB on the lowest level and export that part. Then go to higher level and export the highres version of the torso. After that you should be able to import both into max without any bigger problems.
i dunno what made me stop working on this all of a sudden. possibly cuz i was having trouble with the append thingy... anyways, in a stroke of "brilliance" i figured out how to make things work. And i got the belt on my model
lets see if i can get things rolling tonight
thanks for all the support guys. hope u haven't given up on me?
cheers
just a bit of work to make the new belt fit in. and u i worked on the back to make the response nicer. Tell me what u think! this baby still needs a ton of work lol!
btw: i'd imported this into mudbox to test something, and i noticed that my sculpts were REALLY REALLY deep. is that bad? because in Zbrush they look okay. maybe i should do a test render of a normals map?
u KNOW u wanna rip me apart:
i think i'll do the belt deco in photoshop? that might be a better idea. well, i'm mainly loko for crits about:
anything and;
everything.
thanks guys!
cheers!
how close do you want this to come to the source material? grab the images someone linked to of the actual asset and lay it on top in photoshop... that'll tell you more than we can.