@gir: okay so the belt should be tighter at the sides? ie. the stomach and back look fine and tight enough. just checking to make sure. And yeah, i didn't worry too much about the croch cuz that'll be hidden by another cloth-piece [if u see this image, u'll know what i mean.]
@sectaurs: yeah i overlayed the source image [funny how i didn't think of that] and it seems that the legs are an inch or two longer than in those pics. will fix it for sure.
And about fixing the legs' lengths... can that be done after the normals maps are projected and applied? or should i move ["tweak"] em in zbrush and then conform my low-res later on? just wondering.
yeah once the normalmap is applied, it's just like any other texture, and is subject to the same mesh editing rules, ie. you can scale without too much of a problem, but start removing verticies or edges and you might get problems with distortion.
alrighty, as an update for now:
BANG! i added boots [gotten used to appending i have] and have done minor changes to the cloth. got some more work to do, but i don't think i'll be posting an update today. i'll see.....
no crits? so i'm assuming its looking good as of now?
ahh well.
UPDATE:
how's it? added stuff to the boots, and did a bit more work on the cloth. I finished Gears today [its such a short game] so i'll be able to focus more on my art !
cheers!
thanks for all the support so far. don't give up on me... just yet at least
so i guess it's looking okay?
as u can see, i'm making minor changes at a time, cuz i've realized that whenever i do too much, there turns out to be a problem with the 'basics' and i have to do my work over. so i'm taking baby-steps, even though i don't like it.
hm you need to trust yourself more, and ask yourself is it looking ok (or rather is it looking super cool ). You know when something looks cool right?
I wouldnt take baby steps- whats the biggest thing missing, and why aren't you already on it
I don't know if you haven't gotten around to them yet, but his boots are waaaay off. He should have beefy leather gator's on, right now you've got these form fitting boots with straps stuck on them. His layers of cloth below his belt are missing... those layers of shit are what normal mapping is all about! You've got way too many wrinkles in his arms, he's not draped in silk. the triangle strap thing should be farther over the side and his physique should be more noticeable, even beneath all the cloth. I'd beef up his bracers. his giant belt goes ontop of all his cloth, and it most certainly does not have his shirt blousing out around it - again, this makes it look like he's wearing some thin drapery. same with the hood - hangs down too far and isn't thick enough. you're still making hipoly like its a big normal map, just raising and lowering the basemesh. make some big fucking strokes, be bold. this guy is a badass!
@Rooster: lol. yeah i was thinking "one hurdle at a time" the current one being cloth. But, yeah, i should develop some more confidence. Either that or i'm just used to being torn 'new ones' via crits, that i feel weird without any .
@Sectaurs: thanks for the paint-over. So i did most of what u suggested. Redid the boots and the left glove [glove was on the agenda, i was gonna 'tweak' the boots, but that got too hard, and it was easier to make em from scratch]. Also, i made the sleeves appear tighter [or at least i think i did]. Also, the extra layers of cloth under the belt exist, but they're not in this particular high poly mesh that i brought into zbrush. They'll be done seperately to make projecting the normals maps easier.
Alrighty:
UPDATE:
tell me if this is looking better? the boots have been redone to look more like the ref. This is just the base though. They'll still get alot [read ALOT] of work done on them. Also remade the left glove. It'll recieve its detailing later today, i suppose. I just have the steel plates on there atm. Also, i'm redoing the arm wrinkles. Are these new ones looking better? should i add some more? i'm thinking more minor ones at joints and a bit of bunching at the glove. I'll see how it goes.
Coming along well dude, its nice to see how much you have been progressing. I would suggest you take as many pictures of cloth and how it folds as you can and then use them as reference in ZB on a cube or something to help you get your folds crisp and clean. Keep at it, you are coming along well.
thanks for the vote of confidence Xaltar ! i'll take the 'use a cube' advice... see if that helps me.
UPDATE:
did some more work on the cloth [finally decided to experiment with brush alphas. used the 'nipple' one on this.] after that, did some work on the plates and the straps for his glove. I'll be adding metal loops [to connect plate to strap] in mudbox aswell, cuz i have enough poly density.
this'll be it for the day, i think. feel free to comment and crit on anything, and be as aggressive as u like. Or just drop a kind word if u want
did more work on the gloves, mainly. man are those straps a pain to do. i just realized that he doesn't have metal loops, intead he has one of those... hooks? like in belts? right so i'll sculpt those on.
as of now, still looking for crits and suggestions on the new and [hopefully] improved cloth. well, mainly looking for crits on that. other suggestions are welcome!
actually he has no groin. think about the positioning and that big gap in the middle. the groin would definitely be visible.
The creases are a little confused also, kind of not definite enough and a bit made up. just find some ref for sleeves, creases etc
hmm your screenies seem very low res also.
overall form is ok, just work on those details
@ghost-d: thanks! glad u like the work! especially the cloth, since that's what's bugging me the mostest [argh!]
@Ruz: about the groin. yeah i wasn't really worrying about that cuz that'll be hidden under a cloth all the time [like in my next update] i did a bit more work using refs. i think i got a better look to it, but i'm not one to judge. oh, and how do i turn antialiasing on in zbrush? these are prnt screened at 1024X768, so they are pretty low res. but these next ones are at 1152x. thanks for the post!
update:
[the 'new' cloth-piece is painted in in photoshop]
so i worked on the cloth some more. i have two 'focus' shots on the shoulder regions. i actually wanted to run that by u guys... does it look like the cloth is tight around the shoulder-bulge [kill me, i don't know the name of that muscle]. but that's not all i did on the cloth. i think the difference is noticeable, so i won't point em out [actually cuz i really don't want u guys to focus on anything particular ].
hey guys.
no update for now, just a question.
this mesh that i've been editing in ZBrush has no UV template applied to it, [i'd imported it before]. Is it still possible to colour in the diffuse texture [or the base at least] in ZBrush and then apply that to my UV Template [viz xNormal or something]. I mean, if i use xNormal and 2 seperate meshes to generate the maps, i don't need to have the same UV templates right? i can just make a random one within Zbrush for the high-res one?
i hope u understand my question lol.
hmm i would just finish off the zbrush version without uv's, then when you are happy with it, export the lowest level to max and uv map it
you can then use this as your final low poly model, export it to xnormal and do it that way.
you could in theory uv map the high res version using zbrushes deault uv tiles, export the lowest level to max, then create your 'proper' uv layout on a second uv channel in max and RTT. this would in theory transfer your diffuse texture to the proper uv map.
I prefer the first method though and have never tried the second method:)
ahh okay thanks for the response. wel lthe thing is that my low poly back at 3ds Max already has a template... so i think i can figure it out using what u told and what i know.
so, yeah... thanks!
okay, no update today. i made the head today. and then zbrush crashed. so i made it again. and it crashed again. and again, and again, for a total of 5 times. i think i know why it was crashing, so its not a tech problem. its too bad that i didn't save my 'not-so-bad-for-first-high-poly-head' periodically.... ahh well. now i'm a bit to pissed to work.. for a while at least.
so.... still looking for comments on the previous pic. anything at all. i mainly wanna know how its looking, and what the problems are [no matter how minor to how major].
hehe lol. well no the reason was that, whenever i'd hit rapid ui, and the classic ui [cuz i don't like rapid,.. where's the 'zoom' function?] itd crash on me. that was a mistake that kept happening by my own hands cuz... well, let's say i've been sleep-deprived-partying my last free week. anyways, since i was in no mood last night, i just did this:
a normals test, to see if everything read. i dunno if i'm looking for any comments on this.... am i?
anyways, more work will come today. must... do... work...
Heh, you should remove that Rapid UI button, I had it clicked a couple of times too, because it was just above the standard brush and without custom shortcut keys I had to actually go click to change the brush, but then I got rid of it (enable customize UI then ctrl+drag that button onto the canvas area and it will disappear). It seems to be a known bug that zBrush crashes when switching back to standard UI. So save before you switch back (ctrl+shift+T), that is if you're lucky and work on the topmost subtool, otherwise you'll just save the current subtool. And I don't know for a way to change subtool in rapidUI .
Alternatively, upgrade to 3.1 - that button is gone and you don't need to click standard brush to select it anymore, cause you can just assign it a hotkey
@ Rooster: lol... guess not! [see below if u wanna know what i mean]
@fogmann: ahh good idea! and so it is done! thanks for the tip. now zbrush wilst not crashst upon me .
thanks
btw: yes the ugliness was removed. working on the head again right now. [i was hoping to get people so disgusted with the head, that they'd look back to the body sculpt and begin dissing / criting those aswell... didn't work out]
dude i told you once this, but i will tell it again, dont go next gen if you dont know the basic , right now , you are excited with something you saw ( assassin creed ) and are trying to make something equal in quality, its good to aim high , but its like someone who is learning to paint to do right away a rafael without even knowing anatomy .
That head looks pretty bad , try using every polygons on every subdivision level to make the shapes , then when you need more , then subdivide to make more detail.
Really, Indian boy, if you know it looks completely awful why would you post it up here? Instead of looking for crits and making minor tweaks, you really need to seriously analyze your own work if you want to get anywhere with this. Right now that doesn't even bear a cursory resemblance to a human head, and I imagine you can tell. Be self critical for a little while, and actually try and improve your art. It's good to look to forums like polycount for critiques, but right now this head isn't near good enough for us to even help you. Just try harder, and work longer.
okay, first of all: @johny: yeah, u have said it quite a few times. dont take my not taking the advice sooner as rudeness, or arrogance or anything. i just felt that 'next gen is now current gen' type thing. but you r right, and i think i did mention before that my other project [watashi kaizoku, currently on hold] is gonna be a diffuse only project. thanks for advice about how/when to subdivide. and i hope that good luck wish wasn't a sarcastic 'good luck' followed by a scoff and a roll of the eyes? if not, then thanks! i'll need it.
@SupRore: ye, like i said, point taken. i was hoping to instigate u guys against the older posts by seeing this new one. now i can safely conclude that my previous work in this thread isn't _that_ bad, otherwise u guys would've stopped me. i've tried to do the head again.
okay then, that head was obviously crap, and so i started again. this time, i decided to make a gif animation to show a bit of how i went so far. so u can see when i hit the subdivide button etc. or at least that was the plan till flash decided to crash on me, and take away all the images i had
so i've give u this instead:
two versions of the head as of now.
a) which looks better?
b) this isn't as bad as the first one right? [if u were there to witness it]
c) i know that its "not right" so to speak. but i'm just wondering, is it just the profile which is the atrocity, or the front aswell? are the proportions okay? the general shapes of the nose, lips and brow?
don't worry, i am critical of myself on the head as well, but obviously, it helps me alot to get external help.
looks like you've got some polygon distribution problems, got some areas with tiny polys and others where you can see big quads. I think starting with an all (or nearly all) quad mesh would help a lot, and the size of the quads should be as even as possible. You can either press on with this which looks difficult to sculpt smoothly, or use some retopology tool to re-make the mesh into a more sculpt-friendly version. Or remake the base mesh. But I wouldnt fancy working on that mesh
edit: btw im fully agreeing with the others but I figure if you're pressing on you might want to get the technical details as good as possible
lol. there seems to be alot of opposition to me doing high poly stuff.
but yeah, imma press on, just until the end of this project.
as for the basemesh, alrighty, i decided that i'll borrow arsh's base mesh. so that is indeed all quads. hope it turns out better that way.
thanks for all the help thus far. don't give up on me !
still looking for crits on the cloth etc. btw.
cheers
tell me if my general 'flow' is right.
i don't know how to present as animated gif, so don't kill me just yet. and i gotta go pack my bag now. school starts tomorrow... my first time to this school, so i'm a bit nervous and yes, i'm freaking out and being over-organized.
Oh no, bad news
You were using triangulated mesh as a base, and that yields very bad topology which you won't be able to make look nice no matter how much time you spend trying to make it look good. So just make sure that your mesh has (mostly) all quads and import that and start over, or just use Arsh base bust. Otherwise, you're entering the world of horrible pain if you go on with this model.
...
.
BANG! 'oh lord! what was that' 'oh nothing, just abhishek taking his life' 'oh okay then'.
ahh well, its not that bad, it's not like it was a master piece. yet but its strange, my mudbox meshes never had these weird problems? ahh well. lesson learned.
Thanks for pointing it out guys! its much easier to sculpt now:
what? i said easier! i didn't say it was looking great .
anyways, yeah so another little anim to show u guys how i did it. its my 50th update pic ! have i got anywhere?
lol. so, yeah. looking for all sorts of crits and suggestions on it.
back to being nervous about tomorrow.
thanks again!
you're still getting naield on a crit you've been given since your Dominance War entry--your sculpt gets too superficial too early. it looks like you start with a good head shape, then you start smoothing and stop putting in any major detail. i'm not sure the way to describe the sort of mental shift necessary.
it's like you're pushing small bits of clay on the surface of the model without changing ANY of the underlying structure, by the time you're on the second or third iteration in that last gif. work big then move small, as people have told you. but you've been going almost immediately to moving small stuff. Maybe you need to really exaggerate your sculpting to get where you should be going? I'll leave the advice to the pcounters that actually do any amount of sculpting. But the features need to be much more than clay on the surface that looks like it could get wiped away.
Echoing gauss's statement there, I think it would be best if you don't go to those higher sub-d levels at all for a while. you should stay at maybe 2-4 subdivisions maximum right now. A lot of what is done with ZB/mudbox by new people is they are all excited by the "highpoly" nature of it, and immediately want to subdivide it like crazy and play with the newfound novelty of highpoly goo.
Per? u mean the user Per? hmmm. i do wanna see that rant. or has it been filtered via gauss [and what's the name of this filter? i daresay: gaussian blur? lol i dunno why i did that]. but yeah, Per, feel free to post ur rant here! me wants to read.
since both of u point out similar things, i'll address u together:
u r right.
yeah that's pretty much all i can say. i had a feeling i was sub dividing too fast, and that was the main reason i wanted to do an animated gif. so u could see when/'why' i sub divided. and slum actually hit the nail on the head with the exctiment over the goo. i just never realized it myself, i suppose. well, kinda.
i'll redo the head obviously, with another animated gif. but, just for the sake of knowing, what are the glaring problems over here. wait wait.. probably too many. top 3 glaring problems?
thanks for posting here!
knowing ppl are paying attention is good motivation for me.
however, as of now, wish me good luck for tomorrow . school starts, and i don't wanna be pooped, so i won't work anymore tonight. i'll start again tomorrow afternoon.
[hopefully].
Sorry if this is harsh, but it's probably better than what you'd get from per, so. If you want a rant like that, top 3 problems are:
1- You can't tell the problems for yourself, seriously, get some reference.
2- It bears no resembalance to an actual human, or even a stylized human. Faces just don't look like that, and I don't know how to explain it any more. This is like posting a ':)' up for crits and asking what's wrong with the anatomy.
ack. if there's this much homework every day, i can forget about the 'art side' of my life.... got nothing done today. just finished my homework, actually.
@SupRore: be as harsh as u like! will look for good reference from arab men without heavy beards. as for not being able to tell the problems myself... well, there are a few which i know about, but i'm sure there are things i wouldn't know about. like, tbh, i didn't think the head was _that_ bad. now i stand corrected. as for subdividing, yeah, i'll slow down on that this time around.
alrighty then, polycounters.... keep em coming please!
thanks guys.
One thing's for sure, you're definitely an inspiration, indian_boy The way you keep at it and aren't afraid of taking crits - and take it well, to boot - is very admirable. You are showing progress, and even if it may seem slow and small at times, it is progress non the less.
thanks for the kind words East. i'm surprised i can inspire anybody on these boards yeh. i believe that all one needs is some great determination, and the amazing crits u can get on these boards, and they'll improve. i'm glad my own 'philosophy' is working on myself !
alright, just a little update. had a little less homework today, so i decided to do a bit of face ref hunting. i'm gonna use this one as my main source . amazing innit?
well anyways, i seriously do have some ref, and am about to get started asap. any crits on previous works are welcome, so feel free to shoot!
hopefully i'll have something substantial done before dinner.
peace!
this is pure and utter bull. i had some work going, and the moment i hit subdivide, _bang_ zbrush crashes. guess i was subdividing too fast again eh? [lol, i can't believe im making lame jokes at my own expense]. btw: i wasn't
no update today then, unfortunately. just too pooped. hopefully will have something substantial to show tomorrow. and no this post isn't a bump if some of u are regarding it that way, its just to tell everybody who's expecting an update to not expect one.
syways, still open for crits on all of the above [posts] naturally.
Here, this is what I figured out and its helped me a lot in my sculpting excersizes.
I try to adress each area in order at every subdiv level and I try to only go to the next level when I can't define anything further at the current level. The pinch and move tools are your friend, I often find I can add significantly more detail at a lower level just using these tools, especially usefull for the eyes and mouth. Obviously you will need the soften tool to tidy it up a bit afterwards. Basicly though, these tools can increase poly density in areas you need them and hence save you having to subdiv to get the desired effect. Force yourself to stay at each subdiv untill you simply can't define the model any further, only then should you move on. Also, I find that I often need to take breaks so that I can come back to the sculpt with a clear head. Spending an hour obsessing about a single area tends to blind you to the rest of the mesh and as a result the details suffer or you end up with disproportionate features (like the eyes in my current project). Take a 5 minute break, get some coffee or something and try to forget about the model all together. Then when you come back you have an unbiased veiw and can spot mistakes and bland areas much easier.
Hope this helps.
Guys, feel free to crit my crit, I want to know if I'm doing it all wrong lol.
hey hey Xaltar! thanks for those tips. i followed most of ur advice in this next update [except i used tea and coke as opposed to coffee.]
so yea, watsitcalled: i began using the tweak tool and pinch tool a bit more, and i think i am using each sub-d level better this time around. i've reached sub-d 3 only, and have got this much done:
[sorry for the mat change in the middle. red wax is irritating for me ]
am i still moving too fast? i feel better paced now, but i could be wrong.
thanks again xaltar! really helpful tip!
keep em coming guys ! take out all ur work stress on me! please...
cheers
hmm... i should start typing french versions of my posts aswell. in case i ever do settle in quebec [dream of working at ubisoft i do ]
it looks like you're still moving on to detail too quickly, try sculpting him as if you were still in max, block out the forms, define your loops properly, move individual verticies around with the tweak tool until you get a solid shape.
no goddamn bloody fucking pinch at this stage ffs!!!
honestly dude, I don't want to be rude, but you should really try to follow johny's advice, it looks like you're sculpting without thinking, just because you can.
try to look at anatomy references, medical muscle refs, tons of portraits, define the bone structure and once you're done with one subdivision level (and I mean REALLY done, not just "oh lukz I pushed 3 verts I'm doen lulz") go to the next one, you should already "feel" the shapes and volumes after the first subdivision.
other than that I think that before going nuts with zbrush, you should learn the basics and learn how to model good heads, folds, objects the traditional way, zbrush and mudbox are great tools, and really fun to use, but if you don't have any sense of volumes and shapes, they are completely useless.
as almighty_gir said, learn how loops and facial structures must be placed before sculpting anything, study your subject.
Yeah very true you seem to have little control at all with sculpting at this stage, i would take a step back and focus on basic poly modeling. You keep making the same mistakes over and over, and its because you simply dont understand the form.
Hey man, i would take some time off this project, pick up a pencil and paper, and start drawing some faces/heads/cloth folds/ hands... whatever constitutes your model. This would be beneficial because it seems that your foundation in anatomy is not that solid. Mine isn't either so i have to constantly keep myself on check and have other people look at my project because i overlook alot of things. I found that spending some time off too do some 2D studies and going back to my model afterwards refreshes my mind and i can honestly say i feel like ive gotten a little better afterwards. Its crazy how well something sticks when you go off and study it by doing mad sketches in paper, and then going back and re-inforcing everything in 3D. give it a try yo, take a night off Zbrush and go draw, post them up in the sketch thread!
I would have to agree here, after seeing your last atempt I think you would be better served spending your time with pencil and paper and then, before you move on to sculpting you should first get a lot of practice poly modeling. Starting out with a blank face is not easy, even for some of the more advanced people here so don't get too discouraged. You should focus your attention on learning the shapes and forms of the head and face then make yourself a good medium detail head to pull into ZB or MB and work from there. Like everything, practice practice practice.
oooh. that a nice load of crits. so i know there's a response when i post genuinely bad stuff, ie. the cloth is looking better lol [yes, im the 'silver lining' type person].
okay seriously though: @Vahl: okay so no pinch? just wondering: why is that tool to be avoided? i mean, does it have any bad effects on the model or something? okay, so i'll stick to tweak only. oh and lol, i was actually doing a lot more than before on this update. hehe, the previous ones were close to ur '3 verts' example, but i guess i wasn't doing all that much more this time around. as for ref. well, i have hunted down some images on the net. i'm trying to use those to the best of my ability. and my dad [who once aspired to be a doctor] has medical anatomy books. i'll start looking through those i guess. thanks for ur 2 cents dude. i'll do my best to follow! and if i don't, its not rudeness or arrogance, just forgetfulness.
@EQ: should i do like a mid-res model in 3ds max, and then import it into zbrush to do only some detailing and defining certain structures? would that work better? thanks for the suggestion.
@Master_v12 & Xaltar: alrighty then. i was actually hoping to finish this by sometime in early october so that i could submit it for a fan art compo that the AC union is having at gamespot. well, it was fan art first, and when i found out about the compo, it became a prospective entry for it. but getting the game for free isn't worth as much as getting my art skills good. so i'll take a step back, and sit down with my sketchbook. i'll find an adapter for my scanner, and i'll start up an 'Abhishek's sketch thread' where i hope u guys will support me like u have done so here. as for the medium detail head xaltar suggested, i was thinking that too. it might help. but i'll try taking some time off. lol, i'll spend next week playing Skate and drawing in my book !
thanks guys! don't worry about being rude or offending me! i look up to each and every one of u [so far at least ] and i know that u guys know better than me. and i know that what u say is probably what's best for me.
i would still like crits on the previous works. ie, the cloth etc. so that when i come back to this project, i'll have some stuff to go on.
Once it looks absolutely perfect (and you need to be harsh to yourself, in judging this) import your altiar head in as a subtool. Then, having leaned the skeletal structure of the head and basic zbrush sculpting, when you see exactly how horrible the head is, start again.
Sculpting's hard to learn, zbrush is hard to learn, and anatomy is hard to learn, so stick with it.
Just have to add agian, many props on the way you take crits dude, I know I have a hard time taking a bashing even when there are good crits mixed in so keep it up and you'll be a pro in no time
SupRore, thats a sweet tuto, I'm going to have a few dosen goes at it myself.
Replies
@sectaurs: yeah i overlayed the source image [funny how i didn't think of that] and it seems that the legs are an inch or two longer than in those pics. will fix it for sure.
And about fixing the legs' lengths... can that be done after the normals maps are projected and applied? or should i move ["tweak"] em in zbrush and then conform my low-res later on? just wondering.
oh, and yes. i is doing t3h thread watching.
alrighty, as an update for now:
BANG! i added boots [gotten used to appending i have] and have done minor changes to the cloth. got some more work to do, but i don't think i'll be posting an update today. i'll see.....
but yeah. any and all crits are welcome!
ahh well.
UPDATE:
how's it? added stuff to the boots, and did a bit more work on the cloth. I finished Gears today [its such a short game] so i'll be able to focus more on my art
cheers!
thanks for all the support so far. don't give up on me... just yet at least
as u can see, i'm making minor changes at a time, cuz i've realized that whenever i do too much, there turns out to be a problem with the 'basics' and i have to do my work over. so i'm taking baby-steps, even though i don't like it.
I wouldnt take baby steps- whats the biggest thing missing, and why aren't you already on it
(in case you're not sure, its 'he has no head')
@Sectaurs: thanks for the paint-over. So i did most of what u suggested. Redid the boots and the left glove [glove was on the agenda, i was gonna 'tweak' the boots, but that got too hard, and it was easier to make em from scratch]. Also, i made the sleeves appear tighter [or at least i think i did]. Also, the extra layers of cloth under the belt exist, but they're not in this particular high poly mesh that i brought into zbrush. They'll be done seperately to make projecting the normals maps easier.
Alrighty:
UPDATE:
tell me if this is looking better? the boots have been redone to look more like the ref. This is just the base though. They'll still get alot [read ALOT] of work done on them. Also remade the left glove. It'll recieve its detailing later today, i suppose. I just have the steel plates on there atm. Also, i'm redoing the arm wrinkles. Are these new ones looking better? should i add some more? i'm thinking more minor ones at joints and a bit of bunching at the glove. I'll see how it goes.
Feel free to crit and comment as u feel.
cheers!
UPDATE:
did some more work on the cloth [finally decided to experiment with brush alphas. used the 'nipple' one on this.] after that, did some work on the plates and the straps for his glove. I'll be adding metal loops [to connect plate to strap] in mudbox aswell, cuz i have enough poly density.
this'll be it for the day, i think. feel free to comment and crit on anything, and be as aggressive as u like. Or just drop a kind word if u want
as of now, still looking for crits and suggestions on the new and [hopefully] improved cloth. well, mainly looking for crits on that. other suggestions are welcome!
cheers
The creases are a little confused also, kind of not definite enough and a bit made up. just find some ref for sleeves, creases etc
hmm your screenies seem very low res also.
overall form is ok, just work on those details
@Ruz: about the groin. yeah i wasn't really worrying about that cuz that'll be hidden under a cloth all the time [like in my next update] i did a bit more work using refs. i think i got a better look to it, but i'm not one to judge. oh, and how do i turn antialiasing on in zbrush? these are prnt screened at 1024X768, so they are pretty low res. but these next ones are at 1152x. thanks for the post!
update:
[the 'new' cloth-piece is painted in in photoshop]
so i worked on the cloth some more. i have two 'focus' shots on the shoulder regions. i actually wanted to run that by u guys... does it look like the cloth is tight around the shoulder-bulge [kill me, i don't know the name of that muscle]. but that's not all i did on the cloth. i think the difference is noticeable, so i won't point em out [actually cuz i really don't want u guys to focus on anything particular
thanks for all the help thus far!
cheers
no update for now, just a question.
this mesh that i've been editing in ZBrush has no UV template applied to it, [i'd imported it before]. Is it still possible to colour in the diffuse texture [or the base at least] in ZBrush and then apply that to my UV Template [viz xNormal or something]. I mean, if i use xNormal and 2 seperate meshes to generate the maps, i don't need to have the same UV templates right? i can just make a random one within Zbrush for the high-res one?
i hope u understand my question lol.
anyways, updates later today
cheers
you can then use this as your final low poly model, export it to xnormal and do it that way.
you could in theory uv map the high res version using zbrushes deault uv tiles, export the lowest level to max, then create your 'proper' uv layout on a second uv channel in max and RTT. this would in theory transfer your diffuse texture to the proper uv map.
I prefer the first method though and have never tried the second method:)
so, yeah... thanks!
okay, no update today. i made the head today. and then zbrush crashed. so i made it again. and it crashed again. and again, and again, for a total of 5 times. i think i know why it was crashing, so its not a tech problem. its too bad that i didn't save my 'not-so-bad-for-first-high-poly-head' periodically.... ahh well. now i'm a bit to pissed to work.. for a while at least.
so.... still looking for comments on the previous pic. anything at all. i mainly wanna know how its looking, and what the problems are [no matter how minor to how major].
cheers
you'll make it better the 6th time
a normals test, to see if everything read. i dunno if i'm looking for any comments on this.... am i?
anyways, more work will come today. must... do... work...
PS: yes, let's hope i can get it 6th time lucky
Alternatively, upgrade to 3.1 - that button is gone and you don't need to click standard brush to select it anymore, cause you can just assign it a hotkey
@fogmann: ahh good idea! and so it is done! thanks for the tip. now zbrush wilst not crashst upon me
thanks
btw: yes the ugliness was removed. working on the head again right now. [i was hoping to get people so disgusted with the head, that they'd look back to the body sculpt and begin dissing / criting those aswell... didn't work out]
cheers!
That head looks pretty bad , try using every polygons on every subdivision level to make the shapes , then when you need more , then subdivide to make more detail.
Good luck !
ahh well, i'm back. so i'll be working on the head again. removed the image above. dunno under what drunken stupor i put that up there.
@johny: yeah, u have said it quite a few times. dont take my not taking the advice sooner as rudeness, or arrogance or anything. i just felt that 'next gen is now current gen' type thing. but you r right, and i think i did mention before that my other project [watashi kaizoku, currently on hold] is gonna be a diffuse only project. thanks for advice about how/when to subdivide. and i hope that good luck wish wasn't a sarcastic 'good luck' followed by a scoff and a roll of the eyes? if not, then thanks! i'll need it.
@SupRore: ye, like i said, point taken. i was hoping to instigate u guys against the older posts by seeing this new one. now i can safely conclude that my previous work in this thread isn't _that_ bad, otherwise u guys would've stopped me. i've tried to do the head again.
okay then, that head was obviously crap, and so i started again. this time, i decided to make a gif animation to show a bit of how i went so far. so u can see when i hit the subdivide button etc. or at least that was the plan till flash decided to crash on me, and take away all the images i had
so i've give u this instead:
two versions of the head as of now.
a) which looks better?
b) this isn't as bad as the first one right? [if u were there to witness it]
c) i know that its "not right" so to speak. but i'm just wondering, is it just the profile which is the atrocity, or the front aswell? are the proportions okay? the general shapes of the nose, lips and brow?
don't worry, i am critical of myself on the head as well, but obviously, it helps me alot to get external help.
edit: btw im fully agreeing with the others but I figure if you're pressing on you might want to get the technical details as good as possible
but yeah, imma press on, just until the end of this project.
as for the basemesh, alrighty, i decided that i'll borrow arsh's base mesh. so that is indeed all quads. hope it turns out better that way.
thanks for all the help thus far. don't give up on me
still looking for crits on the cloth etc. btw.
cheers
i don't know how to present as animated gif, so don't kill me just yet. and i gotta go pack my bag now. school starts tomorrow... my first time to this school, so i'm a bit nervous and yes, i'm freaking out and being over-organized.
You were using triangulated mesh as a base, and that yields very bad topology which you won't be able to make look nice no matter how much time you spend trying to make it look good. So just make sure that your mesh has (mostly) all quads and import that and start over, or just use Arsh base bust. Otherwise, you're entering the world of horrible pain if you go on with this model.
.
BANG! 'oh lord! what was that' 'oh nothing, just abhishek taking his life' 'oh okay then'.
ahh well, its not that bad, it's not like it was a master piece. yet
Thanks for pointing it out guys! its much easier to sculpt now:
what? i said easier! i didn't say it was looking great
anyways, yeah so another little anim to show u guys how i did it. its my 50th update pic
lol. so, yeah. looking for all sorts of crits and suggestions on it.
back to being nervous about tomorrow.
thanks again!
you're still getting naield on a crit you've been given since your Dominance War entry--your sculpt gets too superficial too early. it looks like you start with a good head shape, then you start smoothing and stop putting in any major detail. i'm not sure the way to describe the sort of mental shift necessary.
it's like you're pushing small bits of clay on the surface of the model without changing ANY of the underlying structure, by the time you're on the second or third iteration in that last gif. work big then move small, as people have told you. but you've been going almost immediately to moving small stuff. Maybe you need to really exaggerate your sculpting to get where you should be going? I'll leave the advice to the pcounters that actually do any amount of sculpting. But the features need to be much more than clay on the surface that looks like it could get wiped away.
since both of u point out similar things, i'll address u together:
u r right.
yeah that's pretty much all i can say. i had a feeling i was sub dividing too fast, and that was the main reason i wanted to do an animated gif. so u could see when/'why' i sub divided. and slum actually hit the nail on the head with the exctiment over the goo. i just never realized it myself, i suppose. well, kinda.
i'll redo the head obviously, with another animated gif. but, just for the sake of knowing, what are the glaring problems over here. wait wait.. probably too many. top 3 glaring problems?
thanks for posting here!
knowing ppl are paying attention is good motivation for me.
however, as of now, wish me good luck for tomorrow
[hopefully].
thanks again!
bring it on Per! :P!
cheers
1- You can't tell the problems for yourself, seriously, get some reference.
2- It bears no resembalance to an actual human, or even a stylized human. Faces just don't look like that, and I don't know how to explain it any more. This is like posting a ':)' up for crits and asking what's wrong with the anatomy.
3- Said already, subdivided too much too fast.
@SupRore: be as harsh as u like! will look for good reference from arab men without heavy beards. as for not being able to tell the problems myself... well, there are a few which i know about, but i'm sure there are things i wouldn't know about. like, tbh, i didn't think the head was _that_ bad. now i stand corrected. as for subdividing, yeah, i'll slow down on that this time around.
alrighty then, polycounters.... keep em coming please!
thanks guys.
alright, just a little update. had a little less homework today, so i decided to do a bit of face ref hunting. i'm gonna use this one as my main source . amazing innit?
well anyways, i seriously do have some ref, and am about to get started asap. any crits on previous works are welcome, so feel free to shoot!
hopefully i'll have something substantial done before dinner.
peace!
no update today then, unfortunately. just too pooped. hopefully will have something substantial to show tomorrow. and no this post isn't a bump if some of u are regarding it that way, its just to tell everybody who's expecting an update to not expect one.
syways, still open for crits on all of the above [posts] naturally.
cheers
I try to adress each area in order at every subdiv level and I try to only go to the next level when I can't define anything further at the current level. The pinch and move tools are your friend, I often find I can add significantly more detail at a lower level just using these tools, especially usefull for the eyes and mouth. Obviously you will need the soften tool to tidy it up a bit afterwards. Basicly though, these tools can increase poly density in areas you need them and hence save you having to subdiv to get the desired effect. Force yourself to stay at each subdiv untill you simply can't define the model any further, only then should you move on. Also, I find that I often need to take breaks so that I can come back to the sculpt with a clear head. Spending an hour obsessing about a single area tends to blind you to the rest of the mesh and as a result the details suffer or you end up with disproportionate features (like the eyes in my current project). Take a 5 minute break, get some coffee or something and try to forget about the model all together. Then when you come back you have an unbiased veiw and can spot mistakes and bland areas much easier.
Hope this helps.
Guys, feel free to crit my crit, I want to know if I'm doing it all wrong lol.
so yea, watsitcalled: i began using the tweak tool and pinch tool a bit more, and i think i am using each sub-d level better this time around. i've reached sub-d 3 only, and have got this much done:
[sorry for the mat change in the middle. red wax is irritating for me
am i still moving too fast? i feel better paced now, but i could be wrong.
thanks again xaltar! really helpful tip!
keep em coming guys
cheers
hmm... i should start typing french versions of my posts aswell. in case i ever do settle in quebec [dream of working at ubisoft i do
honestly dude, I don't want to be rude, but you should really try to follow johny's advice, it looks like you're sculpting without thinking, just because you can.
try to look at anatomy references, medical muscle refs, tons of portraits, define the bone structure and once you're done with one subdivision level (and I mean REALLY done, not just "oh lukz I pushed 3 verts I'm doen lulz") go to the next one, you should already "feel" the shapes and volumes after the first subdivision.
other than that I think that before going nuts with zbrush, you should learn the basics and learn how to model good heads, folds, objects the traditional way, zbrush and mudbox are great tools, and really fun to use, but if you don't have any sense of volumes and shapes, they are completely useless.
as almighty_gir said, learn how loops and facial structures must be placed before sculpting anything, study your subject.
just my 2 cents tho, you don't have to listen.
okay seriously though:
@Vahl: okay so no pinch? just wondering: why is that tool to be avoided? i mean, does it have any bad effects on the model or something? okay, so i'll stick to tweak only. oh and lol, i was actually doing a lot more than before on this update. hehe, the previous ones were close to ur '3 verts' example, but i guess i wasn't doing all that much more this time around. as for ref. well, i have hunted down some images on the net. i'm trying to use those to the best of my ability. and my dad [who once aspired to be a doctor] has medical anatomy books. i'll start looking through those i guess. thanks for ur 2 cents dude. i'll do my best to follow! and if i don't, its not rudeness or arrogance, just forgetfulness.
@EQ: should i do like a mid-res model in 3ds max, and then import it into zbrush to do only some detailing and defining certain structures? would that work better? thanks for the suggestion.
@Master_v12 & Xaltar: alrighty then. i was actually hoping to finish this by sometime in early october so that i could submit it for a fan art compo that the AC union is having at gamespot. well, it was fan art first, and when i found out about the compo, it became a prospective entry for it. but getting the game for free isn't worth as much as getting my art skills good. so i'll take a step back, and sit down with my sketchbook. i'll find an adapter for my scanner, and i'll start up an 'Abhishek's sketch thread' where i hope u guys will support me like u have done so here. as for the medium detail head xaltar suggested, i was thinking that too. it might help. but i'll try taking some time off. lol, i'll spend next week playing Skate and drawing in my book
thanks guys! don't worry about being rude or offending me! i look up to each and every one of u [so far at least
i would still like crits on the previous works. ie, the cloth etc. so that when i come back to this project, i'll have some stuff to go on.
thanks again!
cheers!
Once it looks absolutely perfect (and you need to be harsh to yourself, in judging this) import your altiar head in as a subtool. Then, having leaned the skeletal structure of the head and basic zbrush sculpting, when you see exactly how horrible the head is, start again.
Sculpting's hard to learn, zbrush is hard to learn, and anatomy is hard to learn, so stick with it.
SupRore, thats a sweet tuto, I'm going to have a few dosen goes at it myself.
Keep pushing those verts dude.