To anyone who asks, I merely mention that just after 9/11, Al Quaeda did not operate inside Iraq, even though the Bush administration would have you believe that they did. Now, thanks to George W. Bush's program to ensure American and global security, Al Quaeda operates all over Iraq. Nice job, George.
Given the House, Senate, Judicial and Executive branches are all Republican dominated, I don't see much obstruction to amending the Constitution to allow Conan to run. Would it be a smart thing to do? Who cares! Everybody likes him so why the fuck not? Let's just turn it all into a free for all with circus music on every street corner and a rodeo clown in every pot.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm disappointed but it is clearly what the majority wants. You'll be sorry! (when Bush eats your babies!) Time to buckle down for another 4 years of bullshit - spending money we don't have, picking fights we don't need and generally being the asshole of the world.
No Democrat with a brain is going to promote Hillary. She's got too much baggage and could never make a dent in those red states. I don't think John Edwards is a good choice either. Then again, Bush could conceivably alienate more of those swing voters- but I doubt it. Honestly, I don't see any up-and-coming Dem for 2008. Obama's too young...
Interesting; http://www.slate.com/id/2109079/
As for 'love it or leave it', I have to say I'm loving it less and less.
[ QUOTE ]
Given the House, Senate, Judicial and Executive branches are all Republican dominated, I don't see much obstruction to amending the Constitution to allow Conan to run. Would it be a smart thing to do? Who cares! Everybody likes him so why the fuck not? Let's just turn it all into a free for all with circus music on every street corner and rodeo clowns in every pot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually Conan's views are mirror images of my own, I like him alot more than Bush, who I disagree with on a great number of issues, especially religious ones.
Well, I will attack Doofus back.. His is the most hypocritical ignorant position of all of us. In fact, where does he get off attacking any of use when he didnt even have enough responsibility to vote?
[ QUOTE ]
As for me being political sheep, you couldnt be farther from the mark PAL. Its fairly well proven scientifically and historically that the Democratic party is elected by those segments of the populace with the lowest incomes, education, and understanding of the political machine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Prove it.. especially "education and understanding of the political machine". That more than anything sounds like a subjective view you are trying to play off as objective. Give us your facts. Else, I demand you retract that asinine statment.
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't vote.
[/ QUOTE ]
You sir, then should shut the fuck up. As I say you didnt take enough reponsiblity to get out there and look. You then now attack those who did have that responsibility.
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't feel liked I'd researched enough to make a truely educated decision. I, unlike many democratic voters, wont vote for somebody because they play saxaphone on MTV, or they "won 3 purple hearts" or are supported by my favorite media celebrity.
[/ QUOTE ]
This automatically makes an assumption that we based our votes on these facts. Are you really that blind? Does it sound like anyone in here based their votes on these things?
How much research would you want? There are plenty of easy ways to gain it. No, lets be honest here. You were lazy, and now are trying to get into the fray.
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't vote because I dont agree with 40% of Bush, but had I voted I have a strong feeling it would have been for him. That doesnt mean I WANT him to be a retard sometimes. Nor does it mean that Kerry was the Magikal Fix-America Fairy.
[/ QUOTE ]
You fucking had plenty of other choices pal. Nader, Badnarik (I think you would have liked him), Cobb, ect. You could have found a better platform and at least voted. It seems YOU want to only see democrat or republican. Well, thanks for keeping the status quo you fence sitter.
LOL - but leave Maryland out - we have a Republican governor, and 20 out of 23 counties are strongly conservative. It it wasn't for the leeches of Baltimore and DC(suburbs), it would be an easy Bush state.
Well I am Very pleased and satisfied with the results of the election. being one of the original Conservatives on this forum (along with Paul Jaquays, and the Dukester). I have alway rejected the progressive policies of the left, and think that this Popular majority rejection of the urban values is a good thing. I want this war carried through, I want more conservative( in the legal sense) supreme court justices, young ones, that will remain in place for decades. I a for the most part, happy. Colorado was a bit of a wash, but hey.
Stayed up last night and got all worried about the election and didn't sleep much. Wake up after an hour of sleep and go to work in the gallery only to find that Kerry conceeds. I've had four professors and countless classmates talk of getting the hell out of the US. I started looking at grad schools in Canada today. I just can't even fathom how that man got himself re-elected. I guess I live in my little liberal art student bubble or something. I'm not going to lay blame or try to continue some sort of conflict. I guess I'm just pissed, especially since the profession I've chosen is expendable in a republican regime (and not too well favored in America regardless). I don't even want to start thinking about what the next four years will be like. The past four were probably BUSH-Lite since he had to get re-elected. I shudder to think what could be in store for us now. Oh and in hindsight I retract my statement not to start a conflict: Scooby-Doofus is an appropriate nick for a fucking moron. >:P
[ QUOTE ]
I can think of 3 reasons that Hillary will not be elected in 2008.
1) McCain
2) Gulianni
3) Scwarzenegger(don't think it can't happen, there are already forces at work to amend the consitution to allow him to run).
I can also think of alot of other reasons Hillary won't get elected.
[/ QUOTE ]
1. McCain is a very intelligent moderate that isn't afraid to go against his party line if need be. I have much respect for the man, even though I don't always completely agree with him. Nevertheless, I could definitely live with him as a leader.
2. Gulianni is just such a snakey politician, that he wouldn't have a prayer. He was not liked for much in NY before 9/11, with the exception of being tough on crime. 9/11 is what has made this guy's career, and there isn't a chance he'd get enough support to be a good candidate.
3. Other than his serious lack of experience and not being eligable, the Terminator isn't that bad. Still, I'd prefer someone with more time in office at a federal level, as the last governor who became president was a really naive idiot.
Still, you have to wonder if Hillary could draw some of the women's vote from the Republican side. If she can, she could win, as she'd mop up with the Democrats.
[ QUOTE ]
Its fairly well proven scientifically and historically that the Democratic party is elected by those segments of the populace with the lowest incomes, education, and understanding of the political machine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Argumentum ad crumenam (by implying that having a lower income and less education somehow equates to "less understanding of the political machine").
[ QUOTE ]
I, unlike many democratic voters, wont vote for somebody because they play saxaphone on MTV, or they "won 3 purple hearts" or are supported by my favorite media celebrity. One of the biggest asshole/morons I've ever known had 2 purple hearts. So, clearly that medal means next to nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a total straw man argument. You argue from the assertion that "many democratic voters [...] vote for somebody because they play saxaphone on MTV, or they 'won 3 purple hearts' or are supported by [their] favorite media celebrity." This simply isn't true.
I agree with your resentment of bearkub's post, but the way you argued your point really bothers me. The arguments you made were just as asinine and dumb as the comments bearkub made.
I don't see a thing wrong with what Kub said. When G.W. fucks up big next (and you know this is inevitable) he doesn't have to watch his ass as closely now. He can go pretty much just up to the point of impeachment and get away with it because he doesn't have an election to lose now. Shall we talk accountability? Every person who cast their ballot for him is directly responsible for putting him in his position. You know what he did, you know what he does, you know what his plans are and it's all on you.
Oh and fuck moving to another country - this is MY country and I'll be damned if I let it turn into a cesspool of "morals". You know the problem with "moral people" is that they're always trying to foist their "morals" (and I use that word in this context very loosely) on others.
OK, since, once again, I think people are missing my point, I am going to try again to explain it.
I am going to use Scott Ruggles (sorry Scott!) as an example. I do not and probably never will see eye-to-eye with Scott when it comes to political debate. However, I have a LOT of respect for Scott because he stands by his beliefs and the politicians he supports even when barraged with attacks. I knew that he would vote for Bush and he did and if things start to slip or Bush screws up, he will still stand by him and not start bad mouthing him at the drop of a hat. This is what I am talking about.
My comment was ONLY directed at people who make important decisions just to realize 2 days later that they only did it because "so was everyone else" and now are jumping on the "yah, fuck him!" band wagon. This does not mean that a person can never change their opinion, but at least try to make educated reasoning as to why you changed your position.
If you want to disagree with me, that's fine. I am also more than willing to debate my point at any time. However, attacking my intelligence, social status and understanding of the political system is very unnecessary and makes you look like, for lack of a better word, an ass in my eyes . If you can't come up with a better argument than "you are dumb and asinine" please, keep it to yourself because I couldn't care less what you think about me personally.
One opinion i do hold on to very strongly, is that anyone who is of the age and ability to vote but choose not to, can sit down and be quiet when it comes to this sort of debate.
I do not buy the arguement of "my vote doesn't count" Ok, so who's vote does? If I'm a Republican in Texas, does my vote count or not count as it was considered a given that Bush would win this state. [he did of course] Should I not vote because enough others were voting? Who is this mystic "others"? Can I get a card so that my vote counts? So a Democrat's vote here counts if the Republican's doesn't or does? I guess I'm confused, because I know I voted and I know my vote was counted.
To me voting is your ticket for crediblity. If you care enough to have an opinion, then exercise that opinion by voting. If you don't, then you don't care enough.
4 more years of shitting on our international relations!
4 more years of our civil liberties being worn down!
4 more years of ever growing national debt!
4 more years of faith-based initiatives!
4 more years of corporate wars!
4 more years of gay bashing!
EXTRA POINT EXTRA POINT!
Score one for the team!
VICTORY is afoot!
WIN WIN WIN!
McCain in 08? probably, I was rooting for him and the whole "McCain is crazy because he was a POW" campaign left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd have to study the facts though, I didn't vote in 2000 and didn't follow the agendas too closely.
won't it be nice to get back to talking about polygons and framerates again?
its amazing how when people don't agree with what you do they are mindless sheep . or idiots or hate fags, or are just plain stupid.
Yesterday someone asked me if i was going to vote, and got all down on me when i said no, talking aobut how important it was and that i really should, but whe i told her that if i did go vote i would vote for bush It turned into a good thing that i wasnt voting, which is ridiculous, its such an important thing.. ONLY if you vote the way i want you to!
Its completely stupid to down on people because they don't think the same as you.
oh jesus im much smarter then the average. awesome. was 85 in alien 3 from mississippi?
btw, i really didnt care about this election at all, but i would rather bush won because he's more satirical. with kerry, there'd probably be less to make fun of.
[ QUOTE ]
oh, hey, next war'll be north korea not iran. bigger threat: more WMD. iran's got, like one plant that a B-2 could flatten.
[/ QUOTE ]
North Korea was more of a threat than Iraq a year-and-a-half ago, but that didn't stop us from going to Iraq, did it? Don't be too surprised if we see American soldiers occupying Iran in the coming months.
Is Mississippi's average IQ really only 85? HAHAHA, isn't that borderline retarded? Jesus, if that's their average, I'd really hate to see their "bottom of the barrel."
I didn't vote....didn't need to. The polls were so close but for the most part G.W. was always in the lead. The majority felt that Dubbyah was the right choice. Other people underestimated Bush's popularity and the power behind him that which we may never know. I'm satisfied....no more political freakin' commercials...YAY! Let's get on with our lives, eh?
I dont care that they dont think like me or not. That is not a problem of mines. My statement comes from some other completetly Soscially unrelated concerns. This administration has been flushing the country down the toilet, and its just getitng started, this is my biggest concern. Im affraid of whats gonna happen in the next 4 years. At first i was fine the he was in office. but he fucked up bad, terribly bad, thats is plain and obvious. I hella didnt wanna give that idiot another chance to fuck up.
And im sure its gonna get worse..Im fucking moving to canada.
build the greatest country in the world. and fuck it up because of petty selfish concerns.
i usually try to stay the hell outta such threads, but the constant whining of "I'm moving to canada!" is getting old... shut the hell up and do it or stick around and deal with it. see if you like the crap they've got going on up there (or anywhere else in the world) any better. if you do, good for you, if you don't... HA. Maybe you'll come to your senses and realize this is not a perfect world, and heaven forbid everyone does not get their way right away.
All anyone should give a rat's ass about is whether their fellow US citizen voted. If not, maybe your concern shouldn't be who got into the white house, but why they did and who you wanted in didn't.
Yea, I'm ready to move forward and hope for the best. I am so sick of being outraged and seeing this country divided. I don't think that I will ever understand how those of you on the right think (Scott, Duke, PJ, Sal), but I still have respect for all of you and respect for your right to an opinion.
Sorry, but this was kind of devastating for those of us that value our freedom. Particularly little liberties that don't fit in with neconservative "morals." I don't think I'll be ready to move on until at least Monday.
[ QUOTE ]
You sir, then should shut the fuck up. As I say you didnt take enough reponsiblity to get out there and look. You then now attack those who did have that responsibility.
[/ QUOTE ] What portion of my statement was an attack?
Who did I tell to "shut the fuck up" or call an igorant hypocrite?
You are the person making attacks son.
As for me not voting or being "lazy" Oh please. You dont know the 1st thing about me. I researched like crazy. I went and shot political statement photos at the polls. I discussed the issues extensivly with my peers. The simple fact of it was that I didn't feel strongly enough about either candidate to vote for them, and also knew that it was 100% pointless to vote for a 3rd party candidate. I'll only vote for the guy I want to win, and who I think can win. In this case NONE of the candidates met those not-too unreal expectations for me.
What upset me is bearkub's 2 statements. #1 That the stereotypical republican voter is simply following the "flock" or that they are sheep, when really they are no more sheep than democratic voters.
Also: #2 that because we voted for the only 2 options (lets be real here and realize that other candidates are candidates in name only, and dont stand an ice-cubes chance in hell of being elected) so if you actually want to DO anything you vote for 1 of 2 choices. Whomever you pick, you are likely unhappy with one or two aspects of that candidate and you ABSOLUTELY still have the right to complain or bitch or discuss how to make things better.
And as for my generalizations about Democratic voters this is soley based upon my 1st hand personal experience talking with people at the polls at the mall, and people I know. For gods sake, I know somebody who didnt want to vote for Bob Dole because she thought he was "too old" and she didnt want some "old guy" for president. She thought Clinton was "much more handsome". I wrote her off as an abberation, until 5 seconds later when all her friends concurred with her statement and espressed their intent to vote for Clinton.
I am an athiest tree hugging humanitarian intellectual who supports both Bush and Kerry. Its just my views on particular programs made me more inclined towards Bush than Kerry.
I am very socially concerned and politically involved. I donate my time to photograph charity events for educating disadvantaged students here in the LV valley. Im not some stereotypical old bitter ultra-religious republican rich person here.
[ QUOTE ]
If you can't come up with a better argument than "you are dumb and asinine" please, keep it to yourself because I couldn't care less what you think about me personally.
[/ QUOTE ]
A person can say something dumb or asinine without being generally either of those things themselves can they not?
Very smart people can say and do very dumb things from time to time.
Your generalization of rep voters as sheep was VERY offensive to me, much moreso than somebody commenting that what I've said is unintelligent or immature. And as for any "Personal attack" on you? WHere? Point it out in my message please?
Daz: When somebody tells me to "shut the fuck up" for voiceing my opinion? He's lucky I didnt call him something more inappropriate than "son".
Because you agree with his political viewpoint the "Gee Oxynary...a little condecending telling Scoob to Shut the fuck up" is obviously absent isn't it? Perfect illustration of the bias occuring here.
And as for this community which is apparently 90% kerry/democrat... Im not surprised.
A majority of the posts in this thread lament
"oh yeah, we're in for hell now" or "Gee this sucks, I wanna leave the US"
This is not a political discussion. Its a one sided statement from one perspective. Indeed I probably came into this a bit hot headed, but please tell me Im wrong.
Dispute anything Ive said, but dont just say "shut the hell up" or "your a moron" or "whan an idiot" because THAT is what is showing the maturity level, and the knowledge level of the persons involved.
The inability to debate issues, or to talk about trends or statistics without either leaving the discussion out of anger, or calling somebody else names.
[ QUOTE ]
oh, hey, next war'll be north korea not iran. bigger threat: more WMD. iran's got, like one plant that a B-2 could flatten.
[/ QUOTE ]
It'll be Iran. Look at the country that's on Iran's eastern border. Then look at the country that's on Iran's western border. It's almost easy at this point.
[ QUOTE ]
He's lucky I didnt call him something more inappropriate than "son".
[/ QUOTE ]
He's lucky you didn't call him something else? Lucky? I can't believe you actually wrote that.
This thread has gotten terrifically lame, fellas. It's a great topic for discussion, but I'm out. Call me when the macho, chest-thumping, penis-measuring bullshit has passed.
You know a lot of the exit polling revealed that the big motivating factor at the polls yesterday was not the economy, or Iraq, or the environment (shocker), it was morals and values. I think the gay marriage thing is going to be an albatross around the Democrats' necks until it is resolved, because it's been painted now in the terms "Democrats want gay marriage, Republicans oppose it", and as seen in all of the initiatives regarding gay marriage, the majority of Americans oppose it.
But rather than just paint them homophobic, which is divisive and doesn't get you any closer to winning any elections, you also have to look at the fact that the majority of Americans support some sort of gay civil union with guaranteed rights similar to marriage.
I think there are two ways for the dems to get out of this morals/values quagmire:
1. Remove government recognition of marriages and replace it with civil unions. So to receive federal and state benefits, you have a civil union; and then if you want to get married in church, go for it. You could even do it in the same ceremony if you wanted to. Individual churches would get to decide who can be married. After all we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, so why are people arguing about the "sanctity" of anything recognized by government? I think this solution would be the best solution, but not very likely to actually happen.
2. Go ahead and ban gay marriage, make an ammendment, whatever; just make sure that there are gay civil unions available and that they carry ALL of the benefits and responsibilities that marriage does. Let the republican-owned congress do its worst as long as you keep civil union rights alive. That way we can get past this issue, rather than having it painted the way it is now and dragging the democrats down to failure. And sometime in the future when the society in general has progressed a little farther, we can repeal the ammendment as an obvious denial of civil rights
-shut the fuck up
-no, you shut the fuck up, son
-no, why dont you just shut the fuck up, bitch
-no, ...
Man arent we lucky that you restrained yourself and only called him son.
If thats the way they feel let them post their comments. You don´t need to lower yourself to what you seem to think is no form of discussion at all.
I don´t think the people who post that they want to leave the country say it because the thought just randomley crossed their mind. They truley have a problem with the new president (again) and predict a future they don´t want to live in. You cant tell them their wrong, maybe we are in for hell.
Most of the times things never turn out as bad as people think because the system is just to huge and there are to many factors influencing the whole thing. So I can just say, keep your eyes open and live a life that you think is right.
Come to the EU, we will make sure you feel fine gay marrige, alcohol, sex,
Scoob: Not at all was my knee jerk reaction to you refering to bk as 'son' based on my polticial views. I just happen to think that 'son' is a particularly and unecessarily condescending term. I didnt see Oxynary write that. I should have read the thread more closely. Thats not cool either of course.
It seemingly isnt possible to have a debate on the subject of George Bush without it getting out of hand. The country definitely is feeling divided. The rest of the world however is not. They're united in their contempt for the man.
Luckily Im in California where everybody is united in their horror at him getting another term, and wondering what on earth next he will lead this country and ultimately world into.
Yes, it make me think twice about living in the US. ( waits for the yay! Foreigners out! cry ) And YES, I do agree with Kubs sentiment of not wishing to hear any complaining in the future about war. Because, ultimately Scoob, by voting Bush, youre cool with the notion of 100,000 dead Iraqis. That includes women and small children killed by horrific means. Burning alive in bomb attacks. Incinerated. You should look at some pictures. I wholeheartedly agree with the initital sentiment about not wanting to hear complaints about a war. Particulary the next war with Iran.
This thread has gotten terrifically lame, fellas. It's a great topic for discussion, but I'm out. Call me when the macho, chest-thumping, penis-measuring bullshit has passed.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, you go do your eye-rolling, head-shaking, loudly-sighing thing, while the thread remains conspicuously less lame than that.
All right! Front row seat to the fall of the American empire! Jeez I hope it is not long and boring like English fall. Can't wait for the brother on brother killn' Yeees!
*ahem*
Americans -you suck. I'm sorry if you can't ...wait! I'm not sorry. You do suck. G.W.Bush(and more so his handlers) is by far the WORST Adm. -ever- God! even Nixon, with all his faults, gave brith to the EPA. If you regard your elections as nothing more that a Us vs. Them pissing contest. Then you suck. If you allow fear to be your guide. Then you suck! You could be so great, but you choose to be so small. And that what pisses me off the most.
No, don't come here. You made your bed, die in it.
/Canadian
No offense taken, Bearkub. But that's the thing, I can still be for my candidate, and not call other folks names or despise them just because they are wrong on politics (Kidding). The basic standard should be good manners in any case. There is no excuuse in letting your passions post for you without regard to common sense and decency.
Now for me, I've never understood the European position, but I don't go off calling all Europeans flaming dickheads, nor do I go off on the French because of Chirac accepting bribes from anyone offering.
I can celebrate, gloat, and extoll the virtues of Bush and Co, without having to resort to name calling ot breaking windows and rioting.
Mostly, it's out of respect for the others on this board and their creativity that I stay here. Definately not their politics.
Scott
P.S. Bearkub, when can I get my Castaway Logo back from the cleaners and onto the new boards here?
Replies
/jzero
I'm disappointed but it is clearly what the majority wants. You'll be sorry! (when Bush eats your babies!) Time to buckle down for another 4 years of bullshit - spending money we don't have, picking fights we don't need and generally being the asshole of the world.
[/ QUOTE ]
yup, yup
Interesting;
http://www.slate.com/id/2109079/
As for 'love it or leave it', I have to say I'm loving it less and less.
- Source
Given the House, Senate, Judicial and Executive branches are all Republican dominated, I don't see much obstruction to amending the Constitution to allow Conan to run. Would it be a smart thing to do? Who cares! Everybody likes him so why the fuck not? Let's just turn it all into a free for all with circus music on every street corner and rodeo clowns in every pot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually Conan's views are mirror images of my own, I like him alot more than Bush, who I disagree with on a great number of issues, especially religious ones.
[ QUOTE ]
As for me being political sheep, you couldnt be farther from the mark PAL. Its fairly well proven scientifically and historically that the Democratic party is elected by those segments of the populace with the lowest incomes, education, and understanding of the political machine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Prove it.. especially "education and understanding of the political machine". That more than anything sounds like a subjective view you are trying to play off as objective. Give us your facts. Else, I demand you retract that asinine statment.
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't vote.
[/ QUOTE ]
You sir, then should shut the fuck up. As I say you didnt take enough reponsiblity to get out there and look. You then now attack those who did have that responsibility.
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't feel liked I'd researched enough to make a truely educated decision. I, unlike many democratic voters, wont vote for somebody because they play saxaphone on MTV, or they "won 3 purple hearts" or are supported by my favorite media celebrity.
[/ QUOTE ]
This automatically makes an assumption that we based our votes on these facts. Are you really that blind? Does it sound like anyone in here based their votes on these things?
How much research would you want? There are plenty of easy ways to gain it. No, lets be honest here. You were lazy, and now are trying to get into the fray.
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't vote because I dont agree with 40% of Bush, but had I voted I have a strong feeling it would have been for him. That doesnt mean I WANT him to be a retard sometimes. Nor does it mean that Kerry was the Magikal Fix-America Fairy.
[/ QUOTE ]
You fucking had plenty of other choices pal. Nader, Badnarik (I think you would have liked him), Cobb, ect. You could have found a better platform and at least voted. It seems YOU want to only see democrat or republican. Well, thanks for keeping the status quo you fence sitter.
- Source
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL - but leave Maryland out - we have a Republican governor, and 20 out of 23 counties are strongly conservative. It it wasn't for the leeches of Baltimore and DC(suburbs), it would be an easy Bush state.
Scott
as for some of y'all here, step back, take a deep breath maybe?
or maybe not
Love ya!
Kahlan
I can think of 3 reasons that Hillary will not be elected in 2008.
1) McCain
2) Gulianni
3) Scwarzenegger(don't think it can't happen, there are already forces at work to amend the consitution to allow him to run).
I can also think of alot of other reasons Hillary won't get elected.
[/ QUOTE ]
1. McCain is a very intelligent moderate that isn't afraid to go against his party line if need be. I have much respect for the man, even though I don't always completely agree with him. Nevertheless, I could definitely live with him as a leader.
2. Gulianni is just such a snakey politician, that he wouldn't have a prayer. He was not liked for much in NY before 9/11, with the exception of being tough on crime. 9/11 is what has made this guy's career, and there isn't a chance he'd get enough support to be a good candidate.
3. Other than his serious lack of experience and not being eligable, the Terminator isn't that bad. Still, I'd prefer someone with more time in office at a federal level, as the last governor who became president was a really naive idiot.
Still, you have to wonder if Hillary could draw some of the women's vote from the Republican side. If she can, she could win, as she'd mop up with the Democrats.
Its fairly well proven scientifically and historically that the Democratic party is elected by those segments of the populace with the lowest incomes, education, and understanding of the political machine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Argumentum ad crumenam (by implying that having a lower income and less education somehow equates to "less understanding of the political machine").
[ QUOTE ]
I, unlike many democratic voters, wont vote for somebody because they play saxaphone on MTV, or they "won 3 purple hearts" or are supported by my favorite media celebrity. One of the biggest asshole/morons I've ever known had 2 purple hearts. So, clearly that medal means next to nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a total straw man argument. You argue from the assertion that "many democratic voters [...] vote for somebody because they play saxaphone on MTV, or they 'won 3 purple hearts' or are supported by [their] favorite media celebrity." This simply isn't true.
I agree with your resentment of bearkub's post, but the way you argued your point really bothers me. The arguments you made were just as asinine and dumb as the comments bearkub made.
Oh and fuck moving to another country - this is MY country and I'll be damned if I let it turn into a cesspool of "morals". You know the problem with "moral people" is that they're always trying to foist their "morals" (and I use that word in this context very loosely) on others.
I am going to use Scott Ruggles (sorry Scott!) as an example. I do not and probably never will see eye-to-eye with Scott when it comes to political debate. However, I have a LOT of respect for Scott because he stands by his beliefs and the politicians he supports even when barraged with attacks. I knew that he would vote for Bush and he did and if things start to slip or Bush screws up, he will still stand by him and not start bad mouthing him at the drop of a hat. This is what I am talking about.
My comment was ONLY directed at people who make important decisions just to realize 2 days later that they only did it because "so was everyone else" and now are jumping on the "yah, fuck him!" band wagon. This does not mean that a person can never change their opinion, but at least try to make educated reasoning as to why you changed your position.
If you want to disagree with me, that's fine. I am also more than willing to debate my point at any time. However, attacking my intelligence, social status and understanding of the political system is very unnecessary and makes you look like, for lack of a better word, an ass in my eyes . If you can't come up with a better argument than "you are dumb and asinine" please, keep it to yourself because I couldn't care less what you think about me personally.
I do not buy the arguement of "my vote doesn't count" Ok, so who's vote does? If I'm a Republican in Texas, does my vote count or not count as it was considered a given that Bush would win this state. [he did of course] Should I not vote because enough others were voting? Who is this mystic "others"? Can I get a card so that my vote counts? So a Democrat's vote here counts if the Republican's doesn't or does? I guess I'm confused, because I know I voted and I know my vote was counted.
To me voting is your ticket for crediblity. If you care enough to have an opinion, then exercise that opinion by voting. If you don't, then you don't care enough.
Oh and fuck moving to another country - this is MY country and I'll be damned if I let it turn into a cesspool of "morals
[/ QUOTE ]
I actually agree with you there. Umm.. more the first part than the second part, but yeah I agree with the spirit of your message
and also nice rejoinder there Kub.
IDIOTS.
also heres 50 state average IQ on people voted for whom in 2000
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~gcharter/iq.txt
I predict these numbers to be even lower this year.
Heh at least their IQ is enough to be able know when the gun is pointing the other way. -.-
4 more years of shitting on our international relations!
4 more years of our civil liberties being worn down!
4 more years of ever growing national debt!
4 more years of faith-based initiatives!
4 more years of corporate wars!
4 more years of gay bashing!
EXTRA POINT EXTRA POINT!
Score one for the team!
VICTORY is afoot!
WIN WIN WIN!
won't it be nice to get back to talking about polygons and framerates again?
+YSG+
Those statisics are from 1990.
Yesterday someone asked me if i was going to vote, and got all down on me when i said no, talking aobut how important it was and that i really should, but whe i told her that if i did go vote i would vote for bush It turned into a good thing that i wasnt voting, which is ridiculous, its such an important thing.. ONLY if you vote the way i want you to!
Its completely stupid to down on people because they don't think the same as you.
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~gcharter/iq.txt
Those statisics are from 1990.
[/ QUOTE ]
oh jesus im much smarter then the average. awesome. was 85 in alien 3 from mississippi?
btw, i really didnt care about this election at all, but i would rather bush won because he's more satirical. with kerry, there'd probably be less to make fun of.
oh, hey, next war'll be north korea not iran. bigger threat: more WMD. iran's got, like one plant that a B-2 could flatten.
[/ QUOTE ]
North Korea was more of a threat than Iraq a year-and-a-half ago, but that didn't stop us from going to Iraq, did it? Don't be too surprised if we see American soldiers occupying Iran in the coming months.
[ QUOTE ]
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~gcharter/iq.txt
[/ QUOTE ]
Is Mississippi's average IQ really only 85? HAHAHA, isn't that borderline retarded? Jesus, if that's their average, I'd really hate to see their "bottom of the barrel."
And im sure its gonna get worse..Im fucking moving to canada.
build the greatest country in the world. and fuck it up because of petty selfish concerns.
All anyone should give a rat's ass about is whether their fellow US citizen voted. If not, maybe your concern shouldn't be who got into the white house, but why they did and who you wanted in didn't.
Let's get on with our lives, eh?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, I'm ready to move forward and hope for the best. I am so sick of being outraged and seeing this country divided. I don't think that I will ever understand how those of you on the right think (Scott, Duke, PJ, Sal), but I still have respect for all of you and respect for your right to an opinion.
You sir, then should shut the fuck up. As I say you didnt take enough reponsiblity to get out there and look. You then now attack those who did have that responsibility.
[/ QUOTE ] What portion of my statement was an attack?
Who did I tell to "shut the fuck up" or call an igorant hypocrite?
You are the person making attacks son.
As for me not voting or being "lazy" Oh please. You dont know the 1st thing about me. I researched like crazy. I went and shot political statement photos at the polls. I discussed the issues extensivly with my peers. The simple fact of it was that I didn't feel strongly enough about either candidate to vote for them, and also knew that it was 100% pointless to vote for a 3rd party candidate. I'll only vote for the guy I want to win, and who I think can win. In this case NONE of the candidates met those not-too unreal expectations for me.
What upset me is bearkub's 2 statements.
#1 That the stereotypical republican voter is simply following the "flock" or that they are sheep, when really they are no more sheep than democratic voters.
Also:
#2 that because we voted for the only 2 options (lets be real here and realize that other candidates are candidates in name only, and dont stand an ice-cubes chance in hell of being elected) so if you actually want to DO anything you vote for 1 of 2 choices. Whomever you pick, you are likely unhappy with one or two aspects of that candidate and you ABSOLUTELY still have the right to complain or bitch or discuss how to make things better.
And as for my generalizations about Democratic voters this is soley based upon my 1st hand personal experience talking with people at the polls at the mall, and people I know. For gods sake, I know somebody who didnt want to vote for Bob Dole because she thought he was "too old" and she didnt want some "old guy" for president. She thought Clinton was "much more handsome". I wrote her off as an abberation, until 5 seconds later when all her friends concurred with her statement and espressed their intent to vote for Clinton.
I am an athiest tree hugging humanitarian intellectual who supports both Bush and Kerry. Its just my views on particular programs made me more inclined towards Bush than Kerry.
I am very socially concerned and politically involved. I donate my time to photograph charity events for educating disadvantaged students here in the LV valley. Im not some stereotypical old bitter ultra-religious republican rich person here.
If you can't come up with a better argument than "you are dumb and asinine" please, keep it to yourself because I couldn't care less what you think about me personally.
[/ QUOTE ]
A person can say something dumb or asinine without being generally either of those things themselves can they not?
Very smart people can say and do very dumb things from time to time.
Your generalization of rep voters as sheep was VERY offensive to me, much moreso than somebody commenting that what I've said is unintelligent or immature. And as for any "Personal attack" on you? WHere? Point it out in my message please?
WTF
Because you agree with his political viewpoint the "Gee Oxynary...a little condecending telling Scoob to Shut the fuck up" is obviously absent isn't it? Perfect illustration of the bias occuring here.
And as for this community which is apparently 90% kerry/democrat... Im not surprised.
A majority of the posts in this thread lament
"oh yeah, we're in for hell now" or "Gee this sucks, I wanna leave the US"
This is not a political discussion. Its a one sided statement from one perspective. Indeed I probably came into this a bit hot headed, but please tell me Im wrong.
Dispute anything Ive said, but dont just say "shut the hell up" or "your a moron" or "whan an idiot" because THAT is what is showing the maturity level, and the knowledge level of the persons involved.
The inability to debate issues, or to talk about trends or statistics without either leaving the discussion out of anger, or calling somebody else names.
oh, hey, next war'll be north korea not iran. bigger threat: more WMD. iran's got, like one plant that a B-2 could flatten.
[/ QUOTE ]
It'll be Iran. Look at the country that's on Iran's eastern border. Then look at the country that's on Iran's western border. It's almost easy at this point.
He's lucky I didnt call him something more inappropriate than "son".
[/ QUOTE ]
He's lucky you didn't call him something else? Lucky? I can't believe you actually wrote that.
This thread has gotten terrifically lame, fellas. It's a great topic for discussion, but I'm out. Call me when the macho, chest-thumping, penis-measuring bullshit has passed.
But rather than just paint them homophobic, which is divisive and doesn't get you any closer to winning any elections, you also have to look at the fact that the majority of Americans support some sort of gay civil union with guaranteed rights similar to marriage.
I think there are two ways for the dems to get out of this morals/values quagmire:
1. Remove government recognition of marriages and replace it with civil unions. So to receive federal and state benefits, you have a civil union; and then if you want to get married in church, go for it. You could even do it in the same ceremony if you wanted to. Individual churches would get to decide who can be married. After all we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, so why are people arguing about the "sanctity" of anything recognized by government? I think this solution would be the best solution, but not very likely to actually happen.
2. Go ahead and ban gay marriage, make an ammendment, whatever; just make sure that there are gay civil unions available and that they carry ALL of the benefits and responsibilities that marriage does. Let the republican-owned congress do its worst as long as you keep civil union rights alive. That way we can get past this issue, rather than having it painted the way it is now and dragging the democrats down to failure. And sometime in the future when the society in general has progressed a little farther, we can repeal the ammendment as an obvious denial of civil rights
-no, you shut the fuck up, son
-no, why dont you just shut the fuck up, bitch
-no, ...
Man arent we lucky that you restrained yourself and only called him son.
If thats the way they feel let them post their comments. You don´t need to lower yourself to what you seem to think is no form of discussion at all.
I don´t think the people who post that they want to leave the country say it because the thought just randomley crossed their mind. They truley have a problem with the new president (again) and predict a future they don´t want to live in. You cant tell them their wrong, maybe we are in for hell.
Most of the times things never turn out as bad as people think because the system is just to huge and there are to many factors influencing the whole thing. So I can just say, keep your eyes open and live a life that you think is right.
Come to the EU, we will make sure you feel fine
It has divided US (see what I did there?), and I think that's more dangerous then anything the Bush administration can do.
It seemingly isnt possible to have a debate on the subject of George Bush without it getting out of hand. The country definitely is feeling divided. The rest of the world however is not. They're united in their contempt for the man.
Luckily Im in California where everybody is united in their horror at him getting another term, and wondering what on earth next he will lead this country and ultimately world into.
Yes, it make me think twice about living in the US. ( waits for the yay! Foreigners out! cry ) And YES, I do agree with Kubs sentiment of not wishing to hear any complaining in the future about war. Because, ultimately Scoob, by voting Bush, youre cool with the notion of 100,000 dead Iraqis. That includes women and small children killed by horrific means. Burning alive in bomb attacks. Incinerated. You should look at some pictures. I wholeheartedly agree with the initital sentiment about not wanting to hear complaints about a war. Particulary the next war with Iran.
'cos you asked for it.
This thread has gotten terrifically lame, fellas. It's a great topic for discussion, but I'm out. Call me when the macho, chest-thumping, penis-measuring bullshit has passed.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, you go do your eye-rolling, head-shaking, loudly-sighing thing, while the thread remains conspicuously less lame than that.
*ahem*
Americans -you suck. I'm sorry if you can't ...wait! I'm not sorry. You do suck. G.W.Bush(and more so his handlers) is by far the WORST Adm. -ever- God! even Nixon, with all his faults, gave brith to the EPA. If you regard your elections as nothing more that a Us vs. Them pissing contest. Then you suck. If you allow fear to be your guide. Then you suck! You could be so great, but you choose to be so small. And that what pisses me off the most.
No, don't come here. You made your bed, die in it.
/Canadian
-Sett
I just feel bad because look at what this has done, not only to us here on polycount, but across the nation.
It has divided US (see what I did there?), and I think that's more dangerous then anything the Bush administration can do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well it hasnt divided me from anyone I was joined to before.
When things get political the emotions rise high.
and that the world and the US itself is divided has been caused by that administartion so it is one of the things it has done.
See, Kerry won:
Now for me, I've never understood the European position, but I don't go off calling all Europeans flaming dickheads, nor do I go off on the French because of Chirac accepting bribes from anyone offering.
I can celebrate, gloat, and extoll the virtues of Bush and Co, without having to resort to name calling ot breaking windows and rioting.
Mostly, it's out of respect for the others on this board and their creativity that I stay here. Definately not their politics.
Scott
P.S. Bearkub, when can I get my Castaway Logo back from the cleaners and onto the new boards here?