[ QUOTE ]
the counties with the blue counties probably contain large metropolitan areas and suburbs. and the red counties containing smaller towns and/or exurbs and farms.
[/ QUOTE ]
Scott if I may point out one thing. The Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex is one hell of a big mess of buildings, people, smog, cars, college degrees, suburbs, game companies and guns
Hmmm, Dallas and Tarrant counties both are solid red!
(this is in no way, shape or form a dig at Mr Ruggels, but rather just me pointing out that fact to everyone else.)
Hmmm, Dallas and Tarrant counties both are solid red!
[/ QUOTE ]
As cool as these maps are, they're still making a black-and-white depicition that isn't real. In blue counties there were often 40% red votes, and vice-versa. I'd like to know how much of a democrat vote the above mentioned counties got. Hey, check out Vermont and Massachusetts- almost solid blue. Based on the map Scott provided I've yet to live in a red county, and I've lived in five states. Phew!
Daz- I think religion played a huge part in this election and I find that very troubling. I do think that population density has a distinct influence on people. I'm going to get slammed for this, I just know it. Fine.
Exposure to different kinds of people probably results in more open-mindedness and tolerance. Inversely, lack of such exposure, or being surrounded by people just like you, might lead to elevated levels of fear. As I've stated in other threads, organized religion thrives on fear. Thus, where there's more fear there are more churches.
This is a huge generalization, but I think there's enough truth to it to explain some of how we vote.
I wrote this long reply that rambled and didn't go anywhere, wasting about an hour doing it. suffice it to say, it's complicated. it's also very cultural.
For the majority of the red areas, they want to preserve their social traditions, and adopt changes as they see fit, usually slowly, and they despise intrusions on their institutions whether it be from the coasts, the government, or University elites. Since theyare more subject to the whims of nature, they have to save most of their income in order to survive, and resent taxes, fees upon it, they also think they are the expertsof their own lands, and resent outside interests telling them horw to farm or not farm their lands. "The Pursuitof happiness" in the Constitution is code, for the aquisition of land and property. the red states seem to be adamant about property rights, and as an extension, gun rights. the main ideal is Self reliance, and independence. they value Freedom a little higher than Equality.
In the Cities, they want to often change society, because cities concentrate people, so that the can collect in self selecting groups, and use the power of their numbers to gain notice of government and political advantage. Changes in job situations and industries make the economies their more volitile, so they tend to save less money and are not all that averse to a somewhat higher taxation rate than in Rural lands. the cities are where the major universities are, and where the heads of corporations are, so there is a lot fo change. because of the cities population and the one man =one vote principle, there is a massiv amount of political power in a small geographic area. Because of the concentration of wealth in the cities, as wellas the concentration of population, the disparities between rich and poor are larger, leading to a lot more tension. crime is also a factor. therefor the cities tend to discourage private firearms ownership.
Hmmm, Dallas and Tarrant counties both are solid red!
[/ QUOTE ]
As cool as these maps are, they're still making a black-and-white depicition that isn't real. In blue counties there were often 40% red votes, and vice-versa. I'd like to know how much of a democrat vote the above mentioned counties got. Hey, check out Vermont and Massachusetts- almost solid blue. Based on the map Scott provided I've yet to live in a red county, and I've lived in five states. Phew!
Daz- I think religion played a huge part in this election and I find that very troubling. I do think that population density has a distinct influence on people. I'm going to get slammed for this, I just know it. Fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not "People" perhaps Joolz, as most rural folks Ihave met have been very kind and hospitable. it's more a case of "ideas".
[ QUOTE ]
it still shows that while things are mixed, the only deep blue areas are along the riogrand, and in the urban centers of the coasts and the northeast.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but- it also shows that the only deep red areas are a narrow swath through the plains and Utah. The Southeast and Southwest are surprisingly equal. Also, sections of Colorado and New Mexico are very blue. Great map- thanks!
I know a number of very kind, hospitable rural folks who are nonetheless the definition of racist, sexist, homophobes. 'Moral values' tops their list of national priorities.
I know a number of very kind, hospitable rural folks who are nonetheless the definition of racist, sexist, homophobes. 'Moral values' tops their list of national priorities.
This make correlates the population that have completed 4 year college degrees, with the votes.
The opinion of Universities are Mixed. The universities have been responsible for amazing technological, and medical breakthroughs, but because ofthe universities dominance by political leftists since the early 1960's, is why they have spawned "Neo-Marxist Economics", "Political Correctness", and think that French Philosphers like Michele Foucault, actually have something worthwhile to say.
There is a massive dislike of Intellectualism for intellectualism's sake, in the U.S. It, like Hedonism is seen as an impractical waste of time, except by those that practice it, whereupon, because of cultural antipathy to it, use it to define themselves, in opposition to the mainstream. Americans like smarts and talent, as long as it has practical, and not anti-social uses.
The funny thing about those maps is, I kind of well, "duh", of course there are more college graduates in places with more people. They should have done that map with percentages of population who had degress. That would have been a little more interesting.
"Americans like smarts and talent, as long as it has practical, and not anti-social uses."
You have to define that better. You are entitled to your opinion, at the same time you are qualified to correctly be descriptive. The term "anti-social" gives a negative correlance to something that doesn't exist in the Intellectual setting you describe. It's great flame bait to disown conflicting views other to your own without any proof.
I think the closest idea you can honestly use is "anti-establishment". Which is far and wide a gap between your hollow, fear driven term. I would ask you show enough respect for your peers to at least be intellectually honest in your description.
Scott, those are great. Joolz, I think you're both onto something with the reasons for the differences of opinion. I grew up in London, a very very mixed cultured and raced city of 15 million people. I grew up surrounded by people that were all very different from each other in so many ways. Which is why I struggle to understand the thinking of people in rural America ( and probably rural anywhere! ). That thinking, I personally think is founded on the concept of what you dont know, you fear.
Sorry to harp on about the whole map thing, but I do find it rather fascinating. It makes me wonder If there are similiar correlations in other countries between urban/rural areas and left/right political leanings. More interesting maps!
Basically it is Bob Kerrey telling Paula Zahn that the 9/11 commisions findings indicate the President Bush was blatantly negligent and partially responsible for the 9/11 attacks. I wonder how much more of this crap is going to come to light now that the election is over.
You know, this "we'll put money there, there and there while cutting taxes" seems to be standard among conservatives, I remember the programme of the conservatives here last election. Even before it was known the state had no money we thought "how are you going to PAY all that?" when reading the leaflets. Then, when it became known that the financial situation was worse than thought before they blamed the socialdemocrats for leaving too little money in there for their plans to work. Fifteen years ago the conservatives spent so much money we're still suffering from the debt they caused (though they blame it on the current administration).
I guess that's what democrats with all their tax raising and so on are for, democrats make money for the state and conservatives spend it...
Reading though this thread and the other one that asked why they voted for Bush I starting to see a pattern.
Less-educated rural poor that fear change vote Rep.
Somewhat more educated urbanites what change so they vote Dem. (I don't see the Dems as much of a changing party ether)
The path of the Republican party is clear -reduce funding to education to ensure future election wins.
Replies
force democracy
[/ QUOTE ]
What a prime example of an oxymoron; now if only someone could explain to Bush what is an oxymoron.
the counties with the blue counties probably contain large metropolitan areas and suburbs. and the red counties containing smaller towns and/or exurbs and farms.
[/ QUOTE ]
Scott if I may point out one thing. The Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex is one hell of a big mess of buildings, people, smog, cars, college degrees, suburbs, game companies and guns
Hmmm, Dallas and Tarrant counties both are solid red!
(this is in no way, shape or form a dig at Mr Ruggels, but rather just me pointing out that fact to everyone else.)
If you compare that to the population density map that DaZ posted, the correlation is pretty damn strong!
Hmmm, Dallas and Tarrant counties both are solid red!
[/ QUOTE ]
As cool as these maps are, they're still making a black-and-white depicition that isn't real. In blue counties there were often 40% red votes, and vice-versa. I'd like to know how much of a democrat vote the above mentioned counties got. Hey, check out Vermont and Massachusetts- almost solid blue. Based on the map Scott provided I've yet to live in a red county, and I've lived in five states. Phew!
Daz- I think religion played a huge part in this election and I find that very troubling. I do think that population density has a distinct influence on people. I'm going to get slammed for this, I just know it. Fine.
Exposure to different kinds of people probably results in more open-mindedness and tolerance. Inversely, lack of such exposure, or being surrounded by people just like you, might lead to elevated levels of fear. As I've stated in other threads, organized religion thrives on fear. Thus, where there's more fear there are more churches.
This is a huge generalization, but I think there's enough truth to it to explain some of how we vote.
For the majority of the red areas, they want to preserve their social traditions, and adopt changes as they see fit, usually slowly, and they despise intrusions on their institutions whether it be from the coasts, the government, or University elites. Since theyare more subject to the whims of nature, they have to save most of their income in order to survive, and resent taxes, fees upon it, they also think they are the expertsof their own lands, and resent outside interests telling them horw to farm or not farm their lands. "The Pursuitof happiness" in the Constitution is code, for the aquisition of land and property. the red states seem to be adamant about property rights, and as an extension, gun rights. the main ideal is Self reliance, and independence. they value Freedom a little higher than Equality.
In the Cities, they want to often change society, because cities concentrate people, so that the can collect in self selecting groups, and use the power of their numbers to gain notice of government and political advantage. Changes in job situations and industries make the economies their more volitile, so they tend to save less money and are not all that averse to a somewhat higher taxation rate than in Rural lands. the cities are where the major universities are, and where the heads of corporations are, so there is a lot fo change. because of the cities population and the one man =one vote principle, there is a massiv amount of political power in a small geographic area. Because of the concentration of wealth in the cities, as wellas the concentration of population, the disparities between rich and poor are larger, leading to a lot more tension. crime is also a factor. therefor the cities tend to discourage private firearms ownership.
this as I understand it in a nutshell.
scott
Everything you said above makes perfect sense to me. Any thoughts on religion while you're at it?
He's a little bit country, and I'm a little bitta rock an roll!
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, Dallas and Tarrant counties both are solid red!
[/ QUOTE ]
As cool as these maps are, they're still making a black-and-white depicition that isn't real. In blue counties there were often 40% red votes, and vice-versa. I'd like to know how much of a democrat vote the above mentioned counties got. Hey, check out Vermont and Massachusetts- almost solid blue. Based on the map Scott provided I've yet to live in a red county, and I've lived in five states. Phew!
Daz- I think religion played a huge part in this election and I find that very troubling. I do think that population density has a distinct influence on people. I'm going to get slammed for this, I just know it. Fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not "People" perhaps Joolz, as most rural folks Ihave met have been very kind and hospitable. it's more a case of "ideas".
as to a Color Mix Map. look at this one from princeton University.
a color Mix. Warning! it's Huge!
it still shows that while things are mixed, the only deep blue areas are along the riogrand, and in the urban centers of the coasts and the northeast.
Hope this Helps.
Scott
it still shows that while things are mixed, the only deep blue areas are along the riogrand, and in the urban centers of the coasts and the northeast.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but- it also shows that the only deep red areas are a narrow swath through the plains and Utah. The Southeast and Southwest are surprisingly equal. Also, sections of Colorado and New Mexico are very blue. Great map- thanks!
I know a number of very kind, hospitable rural folks who are nonetheless the definition of racist, sexist, homophobes. 'Moral values' tops their list of national priorities.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the compliment Joolz.
This make correlates the population that have completed 4 year college degrees, with the votes.
The opinion of Universities are Mixed. The universities have been responsible for amazing technological, and medical breakthroughs, but because ofthe universities dominance by political leftists since the early 1960's, is why they have spawned "Neo-Marxist Economics", "Political Correctness", and think that French Philosphers like Michele Foucault, actually have something worthwhile to say.
There is a massive dislike of Intellectualism for intellectualism's sake, in the U.S. It, like Hedonism is seen as an impractical waste of time, except by those that practice it, whereupon, because of cultural antipathy to it, use it to define themselves, in opposition to the mainstream. Americans like smarts and talent, as long as it has practical, and not anti-social uses.
Hope this helps.
Scott
You have to define that better. You are entitled to your opinion, at the same time you are qualified to correctly be descriptive. The term "anti-social" gives a negative correlance to something that doesn't exist in the Intellectual setting you describe. It's great flame bait to disown conflicting views other to your own without any proof.
I think the closest idea you can honestly use is "anti-establishment". Which is far and wide a gap between your hollow, fear driven term. I would ask you show enough respect for your peers to at least be intellectually honest in your description.
thank you.
Americans like smarts and talent, as long as it has practical, and not anti-social uses.
[/ QUOTE ]
And yet Americans also like Britney Spears and reality TV.
Scott
Sorry to harp on about the whole map thing, but I do find it rather fascinating. It makes me wonder If there are similiar correlations in other countries between urban/rural areas and left/right political leanings. More interesting maps!
So, not much has changed since 1860 then? ;-p
Where's James Bond when you need him?
KDR_11k
http://72.3.131.10/gallery/1/
And another IQ chart;
http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-11-05-stickershock_x.htm
http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4045
I've worked through the anger and the depression- bring on the giggles! (oh- good one, Duke!)
Basically it is Bob Kerrey telling Paula Zahn that the 9/11 commisions findings indicate the President Bush was blatantly negligent and partially responsible for the 9/11 attacks. I wonder how much more of this crap is going to come to light now that the election is over.
I guess that's what democrats with all their tax raising and so on are for, democrats make money for the state and conservatives spend it...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...culturalelitist
Less-educated rural poor that fear change vote Rep.
Somewhat more educated urbanites what change so they vote Dem. (I don't see the Dems as much of a changing party ether)
The path of the Republican party is clear -reduce funding to education to ensure future election wins.
http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/47785163.html
"NONSENSICAL STATEMENT IN CAPS IN MY FIRST POST"
right on!
locked