Just put this together the last hour or so, was a fun little project. Was supposed to be like the Quake 2 Strogg Guards, but ended up looking way more like Quake 3's Visor:
Also, Joseph Silverman has made us a few amazing concepts for the Marauder weapons. Heres the first:
We have physics, and while the movements slowed down from that of Quake 3, you can still do tricks or sorts, plus with the expanded movement we have, it works great. You can, for example, crouch slide down a hill to build up speed, jump off the end and reach out to grab a ledge, to pull yourself up.
So, no, you can't strafe jump at 90mph around the level. But you can do so much more
No wall jumps, its just not what we want to go down really... You add that and the game goes from one extreme to the other, and we ARE trying to ground this in reality a bit more. OverDose is a tiny bit arcade in that we don't allow instant kill shots at the like, same way really Wolf was a "tiny bit" arcade. We won't be quite as fast as Wolf, because we feel that games have evolved a bit since then, slowed down, maybe even taken a little bit more of a realistic spin on things.
So whle we do allow a hell of a lot for movement, its nothing your average soldier wouldn't be able to pull off. Unlike in COD, where I get met with a 1 foot tall cardboard box I can't leap over.
But wall jumps... They kind of conflict with that. They are a bit mor of a trick jump, bit more of a skill based thing. You don't see many people doing that in real life, and as Brink shows, it doesn't exactly add to gameplay at all... In fct, it just makes the game even harder to control at times.
As for where we are, we are legion. We are everywhere I'm based in the UK, our coder from Argentina, and everybody else is all over the shop. A true indie team
Heres a complete list of movement options:
-Walk
-Run
-Sprint
-Go Prone
-Crawl
-Jump
-Leap (Sprint+jump)
-Slide (Sprint+Crawl)
-Dive (Sprinte+Prone)
-Mantle onto/over low object (jump in front of object)
-Mantle over low opbject (Sprint into object and jump = slide over)
-Mantle onto/over high object (jump in front of object)
-Buddy help up low (Work with another player to help him up onto a higher ledge)
-Buddy help up high (Work with another player to pull him up onto a higher ledge)
-Buddy climb up low (Work with another player to climb up onto a higher ledge)
-Buddy climb up high (Work with another player to climb up onto a higher ledge)
-Hang (Hang from side of surface rather than climb up)
-Hang and move (move left/right)
-Hang and move forward (Grab a wire, and move forward)
-Swim
-Climb ladders
Guys I have a question; A few people (READ: Two) have said that its just totally wrong that these guys have no eyes, at all... Totally ignoring the fact that they are A) Mutants and Extra selectable heads for a multiplayer game. A bous, as it were.
I've like to hear your thoughts on this? I don't mind making one or the other, in fact I was gonna make more traditional heads next anyway. But I was trying ot push the mutated and indeed mutilated side of these a bit more. But if its going to far and doesn't appeal, then of course I can tone it down.
I don't mind the faceless / eyeless heads. fits the mutant theme well. having said that i think they could use maybe abit more metal in there - like with your mutant visor guy, a few feeding tubes or puss draining tubes might add abit more yuck to them
awesome work though, I'm looking forward to this, best of luck!
Removing the eyes really dehumanize them. So they look more like mindless cruel monsters than humans with feelings and reason. I think that's what you want, and I think the feeling is great and you pass it very well.
I would even push the dehumanization concept even more with the ones with eye(s). If you look at the last one you've posted, you can feel him thinking. You can feel there is some kind of intelligence in his eye. I don't know if it's what you wanted to, bu it seems to be a "clash" with the ones without eyes/face, who are more "mindless". Maybe can try some different textures in the eyes, to make this one as dehumanized as the other models.
Might try making his eye glow, might look a bit better there. They are certainly not mindless creatures, but not on the same level as the humans would be, if you get my meaning.
Made another head, wanted to do something a bit different. Yes the ears naff (again) but shhhh
hey man, just curious but what are these patches supposed to be made of? In the context of the head I feel like they should be skin, bits of somebody else's face, but the way you've done the stretching and colour they just look like leather patches. If they're leather its fine (could use a higher spec level though) but if it's skin it should really be more like this.
as far as No Eye's, I didn't even notice so it's probably not a huge deal either way. Personally I find them scarier without as the less human they appear the less ability you would have to reason with them and mindless killing (eating) machines are scary as all fuck.
that's also why Romero zombies are better than Angry Rage zombies
I really don't know where to go with this one. I was gonna try hair but I keep cocking it up, meh... I even thought of a tiny little fat or something...
hey odium its seems that your really rushing all these heads im not sure its because you have a deadline to meet? but seeing as this is for your game i would try to take my time and really push a good design.
Not rushing anything, really. The last few were one hour models, not to rush, but to get my workflow down quicker in a time I didn't have much to do myself.
This last one, I'm stumped as to where to go, hence why I offered it up for ideas, and hopefully can get some.
Things like material definitions etc I can fix up, and I'm gonna try and get that flesh on the other one either A) looking more like flesh or if its easier looking like leather.
Certainly not trying to rush, but am trying to be more speedy But I can of course go back and fix up anything spotted, no problemo
You're doing fantastic work, but i would like to see improved anatomy on most of these heads, especially the humans, they're not quite there yet and it brings down the quality imo because i keep focusing on features that need to be fixed. The humans have an odd "doll head" feeling, that's the best way i can describe it XD. Keep on kicking ass!
I think you've mentioned this before yourself, but those ears need some fixing. I think you could tweak the white face paint a bit too, so it looks like it's been smeared on quickly with a gloved hand instead of looking neatly airbrushed on. Or if i'm totally wrong and it's supposed so be dead skin, it could use some gross blues greens/yellows and purples in there.
This is an awesome project! it's cool to see your progress/planning.
I'd be hugely thankful of any paintovers with regards to scales and things that are making these things look like doll heads so I can fix things up or at the very least sort it for the future.
I'll try on the ears again for next time, I do suck at ears. And the paint, i'll try a bit more there, make the blend less soft.
Its always good to concept out what you want to make before you actaully make it,so you dont have to do it as your going. but just want to see if these are just being made for fun or they will be in your project?
Seeing as how you present yourself i would think the quality of your material is most important, i wouldn't release these into overdose because the quality bar is not very high compared to some of the other assets you have in there.
As Psyko said most of the heads just look like doll heads due to the fact the anatomy is off.
been following this project last couple months and im impressed by most of the work keep it up and take what you do with your environments and apply them to your characters quality wise
cheers man sorry cant really give you a good critique im not that great with characters myself :P
Its worth noting these are not forced heads in any way, every class model will have its default "head" and then you can select another of your choice, but thats up to you. Bit sad that these are so poor I shouldn't include "any" of them, mind you. Maybe its just me, and by all means smack my arse and call me a fool, but I dunno if the quality is THAT much lower than the other heads that I never made:
But alas, I'll see what I can do, but like I said before, would bloody LOVE somebody to paint over why these are coming over so "doll head" like, so I can fix up the scales and stuffs, would help a load.
k, I've done a quick paintover of your clowns(you sick bastard) ears to give you an idea of what's off:
from what I can tell most of the problems are in the general volume's and how the Helix and Antihelix flow, anatomy of an ear.
Are you using the same base for all the heads? one thing that stands out is that the ears look the same on all of them (from the angle you posted) and that in all of them the lobule just kind of tapers down into the jaw. While this is certainly true for some people it's just as common for it to protrude and inflate
it would help to see your topology to get an idea if your edgeflow is fighting with the shape or not.
I've got some thoughts on the other heads but not enough to do anything about yet, though one thing that really stands out is the general face to forehead ratio on the white guys there.
I think the major problem is the size of the skull vs. the size and placement of features. The jaw feels very wide and the chin should be brought down...etc
It also feels as if the whole head is on the same plane (like a ball shape) when in reality, the features of the face are on a less wider plane than the skull, the zygomatic bone is one of the widest area when seen from the front, while the top of the eyesocket is tapered in, if you watch the sculptover closely you'll see a central plane on the forehead, another on top of the eyesocket and another on the side.
I tried to match the 3/4 view as best as i could, hope this helps.
Right, ok... I have more of an idea here what to do to fix these. The only issue is that most of these are not mine, and it seems the ones with the serious flaws are not my models... so I dunno how much I can fix them, I'll have to fire off a message to Ben and ask if its ok I tweak them a bit.
Thanks for the input guys, I'll show you what I come up with.
Ok so forgive these rough pics, I simply changed the mesh and got it ingame with a flat light, hence the spec looking a bit odd, so ignore how its lit/textured, thats not what I was trying to do. But thoughts on this, is this more along the right lines?
Ok, So I re-jigged a lot. Please note that I haven't really done anything with the blonde one, its so bad its likely gonna either be ditched or re-made.
Ahh it's much easier to find problems with a front and sideview, so here's original vs. mine, your update already looks like an improvement, way to go.
Jawline, hairline and ear placement really need to be fixed. The ear should sit right at the midpoint of the sideview, the top of the ears line up with the brow and bottom with the bottom of the nose, it looked way off in front view (perspective?).
The shape of the skull is debatable, since they come in a variety of freaky shapes, but in general, the highest point is lining up where the ear and jaw connect.
All points taken onboard, and than kyou very much for the info. I'm honestly not 100% sure how easy it will be to just re-jig that head mesh, truth be told. With normals as well, too much of a change will be a total ball ache and of course break the normals.
Now I'm gonna annoy a lot of people here... I don't think its THAT big a deal, right now anyway. The first batch of tube heads? Totally agree, way too tall, way too odd looking! Where its at now? Much better. Perfect? No, but better.
So, for the moment I think I'm gonna just say unless I can some how find a fix for this that doesn't break it too much, I'll just call it a lesson learned, and move on, putting all this into practise for future heads that we do.
Just as an aside, if anybody wants to take a stab at this and maybe show me how easy it would be, please be my guest. I've uploaded the head mesh and textures here to grab:
Here's a WIP of the MDR Engineer! Most of the stuff is starting to come together, but there's still some stuff that needs touching up on. The pipes on the sides need baked, as well as a few other accessories that aren't displayed (or that I've been too lazy to model yet :P) I've just been badly procrastinating. As well, the hands are untouched besides base colors and AO. I'd like the community's thoughts on it as I'm not very confident of it at the moment since I'm just an inexperienced hobbyist
Also, these are the two heads that I've made so far
BTW SuPa, I've been thinking... The scales were always a little wrong with the player model, and while yes, the rig will be the same for all player models (Same anims), this is exactly the time to change the case scales to something more acceptable IF they are wrong.
So guys, if these things are scaled wrong (And keep in mind, they were scaled this way to look better ingame, and they do look fine ingame), I would love anybody to tell me. I can't do too much with the heads, but I would rather we nailed th player model scale NOW and fixed all future heads, rather than keep on forcing people to scale models to an odd player scale. Thankfully, thats an easier fix.
So I went back to the drawing board on some new heads, to try and find a decent base scale/shape etc, after some of the previous comments. This is where I'm at so far:
immediately it looks like the area around the bridge of his nose is smashed in.
I think one of the things that's tripping you up is you keep over defining the edges of the lips. That's a good way to make someone look feminine, but I don't think your going for.
The upper lip on men is generally well defined because its angled in shadow, while the lower lip should rely on only a faint suggestion. both in value and in form.
I made a very little paintover on your 3/4 view where the eye socket is it should be going in like I made it and then sticking back out for the cheekbone and the brow area.
Also your chin does not end under the ear so probably that could use some more work.
I believe your eyes are too far back making the slope from your mouth to the them too steep so try to move those around see if that helps
The thing is, we don't worry about the graphics. We worry about how it will play. Do you worry about how bad Link To The Past looks when you load it up? Or Doom? Grpahics always change. Crysis won't look amazing in a few years, even... But it will always play the same. Thats the important thing, but its also something we can control easy by changing it as/when needed.
The only crit I would have on the people is that they look too 'nice'. Like guys you'd meet at work who happened to go to a fancy dress party. They need to have something more like either fear or hate or desperation in their eyes.
Apart from that, it's looking amazing. I'm old enough to have downloaded your Q2 Evolved.
I wish there was something I could do about the smoothing here... Not sure what I can do, if anything, without making the whole area a model and a single smoothing group... Maybe I can hack the normals there?
Replies
Also, Joseph Silverman has made us a few amazing concepts for the Marauder weapons. Heres the first:
Heres a link to his awesome folio: http://catkilo.com/
Still looking for somebody to really do the weapon justice, so any takers, I'm all ears
So, no, you can't strafe jump at 90mph around the level. But you can do so much more
So whle we do allow a hell of a lot for movement, its nothing your average soldier wouldn't be able to pull off. Unlike in COD, where I get met with a 1 foot tall cardboard box I can't leap over.
But wall jumps... They kind of conflict with that. They are a bit mor of a trick jump, bit more of a skill based thing. You don't see many people doing that in real life, and as Brink shows, it doesn't exactly add to gameplay at all... In fct, it just makes the game even harder to control at times.
As for where we are, we are legion. We are everywhere
Heres a complete list of movement options:
-Walk
-Run
-Sprint
-Go Prone
-Crawl
-Jump
-Leap (Sprint+jump)
-Slide (Sprint+Crawl)
-Dive (Sprinte+Prone)
-Mantle onto/over low object (jump in front of object)
-Mantle over low opbject (Sprint into object and jump = slide over)
-Mantle onto/over high object (jump in front of object)
-Buddy help up low (Work with another player to help him up onto a higher ledge)
-Buddy help up high (Work with another player to pull him up onto a higher ledge)
-Buddy climb up low (Work with another player to climb up onto a higher ledge)
-Buddy climb up high (Work with another player to climb up onto a higher ledge)
-Hang (Hang from side of surface rather than climb up)
-Hang and move (move left/right)
-Hang and move forward (Grab a wire, and move forward)
-Swim
-Climb ladders
Think thats about it...?
I've like to hear your thoughts on this? I don't mind making one or the other, in fact I was gonna make more traditional heads next anyway. But I was trying ot push the mutated and indeed mutilated side of these a bit more. But if its going to far and doesn't appeal, then of course I can tone it down.
Thoughts?
awesome work though, I'm looking forward to this, best of luck!
I would even push the dehumanization concept even more with the ones with eye(s). If you look at the last one you've posted, you can feel him thinking. You can feel there is some kind of intelligence in his eye. I don't know if it's what you wanted to, bu it seems to be a "clash" with the ones without eyes/face, who are more "mindless". Maybe can try some different textures in the eyes, to make this one as dehumanized as the other models.
hey man, just curious but what are these patches supposed to be made of? In the context of the head I feel like they should be skin, bits of somebody else's face, but the way you've done the stretching and colour they just look like leather patches. If they're leather its fine (could use a higher spec level though) but if it's skin it should really be more like this.
as far as No Eye's, I didn't even notice so it's probably not a huge deal either way. Personally I find them scarier without as the less human they appear the less ability you would have to reason with them and mindless killing (eating) machines are scary as all fuck.
that's also why Romero zombies are better than Angry Rage zombies
yes you do...
The other halves like *save to inspiration folder*
Bugger me being a games artist is wrong at times lol...
WIP:
This last one, I'm stumped as to where to go, hence why I offered it up for ideas, and hopefully can get some.
Things like material definitions etc I can fix up, and I'm gonna try and get that flesh on the other one either A) looking more like flesh or
Certainly not trying to rush, but am trying to be more speedy
This is an awesome project! it's cool to see your progress/planning.
I'll try on the ears again for next time, I do suck at ears. And the paint, i'll try a bit more there, make the blend less soft.
Its always good to concept out what you want to make before you actaully make it,so you dont have to do it as your going. but just want to see if these are just being made for fun or they will be in your project?
Seeing as how you present yourself i would think the quality of your material is most important, i wouldn't release these into overdose because the quality bar is not very high compared to some of the other assets you have in there.
As Psyko said most of the heads just look like doll heads due to the fact the anatomy is off.
been following this project last couple months and im impressed by most of the work keep it up and take what you do with your environments and apply them to your characters quality wise
cheers man sorry cant really give you a good critique im not that great with characters myself :P
Quality bar:
But alas, I'll see what I can do, but like I said before, would bloody LOVE somebody to paint over why these are coming over so "doll head" like, so I can fix up the scales and stuffs, would help a load.
from what I can tell most of the problems are in the general volume's and how the Helix and Antihelix flow, anatomy of an ear.
Are you using the same base for all the heads? one thing that stands out is that the ears look the same on all of them (from the angle you posted) and that in all of them the lobule just kind of tapers down into the jaw. While this is certainly true for some people it's just as common for it to protrude and inflate
it would help to see your topology to get an idea if your edgeflow is fighting with the shape or not.
I've got some thoughts on the other heads but not enough to do anything about yet, though one thing that really stands out is the general face to forehead ratio on the white guys there.
hope that helps some.
It also feels as if the whole head is on the same plane (like a ball shape) when in reality, the features of the face are on a less wider plane than the skull, the zygomatic bone is one of the widest area when seen from the front, while the top of the eyesocket is tapered in, if you watch the sculptover closely you'll see a central plane on the forehead, another on top of the eyesocket and another on the side.
I tried to match the 3/4 view as best as i could, hope this helps.
Thanks for the input guys, I'll show you what I come up with.
Older one for comparison here:
http://www.moddb.com/games/overdose/images/give-me-head-hoooo-ho-hoooo
I also went back to the ski mask guy and gave him some ears under there, it didn't look right without them.
Jawline, hairline and ear placement really need to be fixed. The ear should sit right at the midpoint of the sideview, the top of the ears line up with the brow and bottom with the bottom of the nose, it looked way off in front view (perspective?).
The shape of the skull is debatable, since they come in a variety of freaky shapes, but in general, the highest point is lining up where the ear and jaw connect.
Now I'm gonna annoy a lot of people here... I don't think its THAT big a deal, right now anyway. The first batch of tube heads? Totally agree, way too tall, way too odd looking! Where its at now? Much better. Perfect? No, but better.
So, for the moment I think I'm gonna just say unless I can some how find a fix for this that doesn't break it too much, I'll just call it a lesson learned, and move on, putting all this into practise for future heads that we do.
Just as an aside, if anybody wants to take a stab at this and maybe show me how easy it would be, please be my guest. I've uploaded the head mesh and textures here to grab:
http://www.team-blur-games.com/odium/head.zip
Also, these are the two heads that I've made so far
Heres the Marauder Burst Rifle, again looking for somebody to give it extra Mudul Lurve:
Concept by the amazing Joseph Silverman.
So guys, if these things are scaled wrong (And keep in mind, they were scaled this way to look better ingame, and they do look fine ingame), I would love anybody to tell me. I can't do too much with the heads, but I would rather we nailed th player model scale NOW and fixed all future heads, rather than keep on forcing people to scale models to an odd player scale. Thankfully, thats an easier fix.
http://www.team-blur-games.com/forums/chat/
I think one of the things that's tripping you up is you keep over defining the edges of the lips. That's a good way to make someone look feminine, but I don't think your going for.
The upper lip on men is generally well defined because its angled in shadow, while the lower lip should rely on only a faint suggestion. both in value and in form.
Also your chin does not end under the ear so probably that could use some more work.
I believe your eyes are too far back making the slope from your mouth to the them too steep so try to move those around see if that helps
I've been trying to get some more destruction type models and surfaces done, so I'll upload some shots of those later.
The only crit I would have on the people is that they look too 'nice'. Like guys you'd meet at work who happened to go to a fancy dress party. They need to have something more like either fear or hate or desperation in their eyes.
Apart from that, it's looking amazing. I'm old enough to have downloaded your Q2 Evolved.