How do you see how many times a thread has been viewed?
Edit -
Just found it: Just hover the mouse over the "Last post" information.
This makes me angry too. When i check the views of my Art dump and the replies. I usually want more comments but people just will not contribute. And i don't have time to go post on another boards....
pior I REALLY like those ideas, I hope the crew can pull off something like that.
I also like Stringer88's ideas but with some slight modifications because I think it pushes the threads down too far.
Maybe split the top header into two sections, "WIP Thumbs" and "Gallery Images" like the banners we have now but with an aspect ratio that is a little easier to work with.
I know the thread thumbnails have been discussed and poo-poo'ed in the past but I think they could go a long way into explaining the threads better than words can like Pior pointed out. It would be great if the thumbnail was an image the thread starter could update so people would know if there has been any more work done.
Now this is something i could get used to. People will look at threads they know something about, either the poster or the content. Having thumbs on the page is like finding that there's a world outside vanilla and fudge Sunday. Gives everyone a even-er chance to be seen.
The notion that spoon feeding art instruction creates bad artists is incredibly silly. Most real art skills can't be read in a book, they have to be practiced and studied and developed -- making it easier to find the information and conduct the investigations that someone needs to become skilled will not empower the lazy, incompetent constituency whatsoever.
On the flip side to that SupRore, not everyone is a pro or has vastly practiced. How-to's and tutorials are the lifeblood of the amature '3d' artist, not everyone instinctively knows how to get something done or how to achieve a certain affect in their chosen 3d program. Proffessionals pick up knowledge along the way from not only being taught (sometimes) but also picking up from colleagues at work. Sure the lazy or just incompetant artists will still just be that but those who want ot learn and further their skills can learn allot from others workflow and tips/tricks of how to get things done not only right but sometimes allot faster/better than they could before.
I know I've learnt a whole ton of stuff from reading WiP threads not only for 3d art but for my chosen engine (UDK right now) from this forum and it's hands down the best to receive feedback on what you're doing.
I really dig that layout Mark. I think there are some great ideas between the last couple pages and Pior's initial post.
Quick question. With your proposal, Mark, would the preview thumbs at the top be purely for P&P, or would other sub-forums get their respective set of preview images? If not, and the preview thumbs were the same no matter where you were on the site, maybe the spread could be divvied up into a cross section of each of the more image-based subforums? Like tech talk and the sketchbooks getting some room up there as well.
I realize that this stuff is all hypothetical atm. I'm just trying to get an idea of what ppl are thinking.
that looks great Mark. Some of the current banners would probably need editing to fit this format though (bath house, enviro's, etc)
But then the front page Banner could still be without the thumbnails. And the thumbs bar only showing in P&P and sketchbook sub forums. Also, loving the fact that ppl could pick there own thumbs for their threads. Text could be added to these thumbs, i.e. tutorial, video, enviro, character, low poly, etc....
While you guys are putting up some great discussion, I gotta say that I really hope we don't add any kind of thumbnails or preview bars or anything. ZBC, cgtalk, cghub, etc, all have those, and those sites all feel like they're galleries first, and forums second.
Polycount is the only 3d art forum I visit regularly, because it's a forum first, and a gallery second. Adding quick-view gallery features would make polycount more like a gallery, and I think that would just add to the number of "non-contributing" members. People who just pop in, browse the featured images, leave some "OMG SO AWESOME <3333" comments, and leave.
Right now, a lot of the people you see posting are willing to actually crit work, and have artistic discussions, because a lot of polycount's content is just that: discussions and crits. If we were to add these gallery features, I think that would diminish the main thing that sets polycount apart as a cg forum, and makes it great.
I don't think adding thumbnails will improve "non-contributing community members."
Lots of people, especially busy ones, only check stuff like the WAYWO thread and whatever is highlighted at the top of the site. Just too much of a hassle to look through all the threads in P&P.
Sorry to chime in on "improvements" that can be made to PC, but I really like the idea of categorizing art threads. I can't even count how many times I've passed on/misclicked threads because the thread title was inane or confusing. Thumbs might help, but establishing categories like Characters, Environments, Props, FX, Animation, Concepts, etc., would be great to me.
I've always found text-based forums difficult to navigate. Like when I see a cool image featured on ZbrushCentral and then realize that one image is buried somewhere in a 50 page thread. This probably won't be a popular solution, but a personal gallery section instead of sketchbook threads could address this. It can be a lot lower key than CGHub profiles, but just having something like that would make it easier to associate work with artists.
I think the PC wiki should be featured more prominently as well. There's a wealth of information there that would address many newbie questions by itself.
Even in just the last year or so since I started posting here thread rates have become more difficult to keep up with. Any way to help digest these would be welcome.
I like this site cause it is simple. I'm not really a fan of the thumbnails I don't find it that hard to navigate how it is now. Don't try to be like the 'other guys' careful you may ruin a good site -
I like this site cause it is simple. I'm not really a fan of the thumbnails I don't find it that hard to navigate how it is now. Don't try to be like the 'other guys' careful you may ruin a good site -
I agree with this, but if polycount does end up going for some kind of thumbnail system, I'd suggest doing something like Google previews. That, or at least have a similar roll over functionality which shows the thumbnail and the first 30 words or whatever when you roll over a thread. Seems like it might help cut out the clutter.
I'd be fine with the thumbnails being an option, if they ever do become a reality, so the cranks who like their 1992 BBS systems can keep it that way and those that don't have all day to spend digging through "I makez ert Luv MEH!" threads.
Actually if people could write a decent thread title we wouldn't need thumbnails...
It's an art forum. When I'm browsing through an art forum, I would rather see some art to decide whether or not I want to read further, rather than a vague (and often stupid) description in words.
I can't see it generally impacting how much I read/critique. It will just allow me to get to the things I'm interested in more quickly, and waste less time.
MakeCG has a point about potentially ruining things. Just like everything else, any change or improvement needs to be tried and tested before committing to it...
In general I think it's always nice to allow for optional features instead of a hard, no-turning-back switch. CGHub switched to a black theme lately, but at least they still allow registered user the choice to use the classic (and much better!) bright layout.
Also something to note when it comes to visual/laout improvements : we need to be careful about adding too many horizontal divisions. (banners/adds/thumbs/threads). We should keep in mind that most screens and laptops are widescreen now...
Actually if people could write a decent thread title we wouldn't need thumbnails...
"Another generic sci-fi goblin hallway chick wip" I have wanted to create threads just ranting about bad thread titling. Not that I am great at titling my own threads, but it really bothers me.
On a more relevant note, I'm glad I've been reading this thread as its been going. It's definitely made me think more about how I will participate. It's my new goal to crit people's art more instead of just browsing, thinking of crits and never writing them. I usually browse at work and click on a lot of threads which gives me little time to write crits. Also to ask more questions, I have a lot of questions that I haven't asked.
As for thread thumbnails, I can see both sides of the argument. Some threads could get easily looked over based on a thumbnail, but at the same times ones that would get looked over in text could get views from the thumbnail. I think it's something that has to be tried out. I never thought there was any problem with it on other forums. I generally click most threads just because you can find great info in any one. Overall, I would support it.
I like the idea of thumbnails or a more visual browsing system. At least as an option. I don't think making a changed layout mandatory for all users is a good thing. But as an alternately selectable CSS template it would be great.
Oh and pior +1 for the pulse post. dling now, as I most often browse from an iPhone.
Edit: oh and as far as spoon-feeding goes..there are some points where people run into issues of "minimum level of competence". Where you need to understand enough about a field to realize how much of a noob you are, and thereby know what questions to ask.
So while it should never be an artists responsibility or obligation to detail their techniques, it can help more than one might realize.
I do want to point out that there have been some awesome threads that have kinda been swept under the rug or gone unnoticed. A few that should be front page worthy and shared more then they are.
Vahl gave us this amazing scene to look at and then gave us the UDK files and all his source art. How did this not make front page or get shared more then it did?
This is just two examples of stuff lately. I am guilty of it too because I'm a moderator and should be sharing this stuff up so guys DON'T MISS THESE THREADS!!!
Good art should be praised. A lot of people like their egos to be stroked in our industry and others. It's natural. But it's also nice when those people share the knowledge and show how awesome they are by giving back when they have time.
I think some people forget just how much time this takes us. Some have families, work two jobs (day time gig and then freelance at night), other responsibilities, etc. Sometimes guys are good about responding. Other times not so much. I don't think we should publicly call them out for it though. That just seems kinda silly and childish.
You've made 31 threads since the last time you mad a P+P thread. I don't think you're really part of the solution.
Internet High-Five!
This may be a bit extreme, but you could limit the amount of threads each member is allowed to create per sub-forum.
I know that Pior's mention of CGHUB's frontpage may seem like it's off-topic, but I think it could work to focus people's attention on art over GD. If they go to the frontpage and see lots of art, they may not go directly to GD (or may not go there at all). I hardly ever go to the forums at CGHUB, there's so much art that I can view effortlessly, why jump through hoops and search for it?
devil's advocate: many people do say "post your artwork everywhere!" in those job advice threads. People rarely add "... and then participate in their forums".
on the subject of ~improved browsing~, I'm personally not a huge fan of thumbnails. "Don't judge a book by it's cover" comes to mind. Having to represent a whole thread by a tiny image isn't really that representative a lot of the times, and I fear that that would push people to only post threads with finished artwork, instead of WIPs. And wasn't that the problem to begin with?
What I'd rather see is a way to browse the first post of every thread, or only see the posts made by the thread starter, or something like that. If I try to analyze my own thread browsing habits when checking out a new one, I usually open up a few tabs, read the first post, scroll down until I see another post by the author, good critique by others or just thread-related images. I think I'd rather have it easier to find good contributions than just good art.
now,everytime I go to pnp now I notice the people who make a thread for praise and asspats.
And I personally have to agree, you're pretty high on my list of people who post a lot but contribute little of value to polycount. So, if you're gonna call others out, be prepared to critique yourself too.
I'm an old man with a with and house etc, I don't do much personal art these days, being a huge camera nerd doesn't help either. I'm more active in tech talk than anything.
and the brink thread doesn't count, as that's work work. not personal work. and it was a group effort, monkey boy.
anyway, to get back on topic -
polycounts layout will not change what polycount is, what it reprisents, or the people who come here. there are fundamental things which make the forum great, just because a lot of the veterans and pro's don't post a lot of personal threads (although threads like Tim's are a great example of those), they do provide the helpful insight where needed, and more often than not if they don't answer a question it's probably because they're expecting you to come to the right conclusion after a few hours and one of those "OOOOOOOOOHHHHH!!!!" moments hits you.
for the love of god please don't add in a view counter for threads. it's one of the positive aspects of the forum. people can be disheartened enough by having little to no replies to their work, but it becomes extremely demotivating when there's a 1:800 post/views ratio going on.
i love the idea of having thumbnails for threads.
and i've often wondered why there isn't a portfolio sub-forum, for those who have little/no web design experience, or lack the funding to host a site (i know that sounds rediculous, but it exists).
and I fear that that would push people to only post threads with finished artwork, instead of WIPs. And wasn't that the problem to begin with?
Ah see I was thinking it would be a faster way to check if a WIP thread was updated. If the thumb changes you know there was an update, instead of not knowing, clicking on it and seeing 14 replies that all say "joo rox my box /jizz in pants!!1"
This thread has been really interesting. I feel that I'm somewhat guilty of posting my stuff to all the forums I'm apart of. I don't have many threads but I do post a lot, meanly in the general section, so I'm not really contributing that much. On the other hand, when I do post some work I rarely get any to no comments at all. And the only thing that could be considered a demonstration of my workflow would be my Underground ruin in my sketchbook thread. if anything someone would learn what not to do. Hopefully, when ever I did comment on someone else's work, I gave the best critique I could.
Right now I'm working with Tactical Assault and I'm trying to get my life back in order(I finally have a job yeah!!!). So when I have something to show I'll be sure to write down how I made it.
however, right now you see a lot of "how do i get feedback/critique" thread or "why don't i get enough critique" threads.
most of them these are pointless. lot of them don't need feedback, they are just too lazy to look deeper into their own works and compare with with others works. they are too lazy to google, too lazy to research more reference, just too damn lazy for everything.
lot of this threads are too early at a stage for feedback. for example you cant teach a 1 year old boy how to spell "aesthetic". he has to learn how to speak first. same way, every artist has to go through their own stage of self development on their own.
feedback comes later when they actually are capable of understanding the feedback.
creating a more pampered social network where information is further spoon fed to those who are too damn lazy to do the hard work leads to more fail society!
MM I agree with you on this, I feel the continual watching, browsing and skimming of tutorials, vid caps and gallery forums without doing the work is hurting many of the less experienced artists. Knowing how to do something and actually doing something are wholly different.
What often happens in a community like polycount is you see a changing of the guard, the experienced members find jobs, get married or grow tired of offering the same advice year after year. Naturally they mostly move on or post less and new artists step up and and cycles continues.
I guess where im going with this is the new guard appears to be, in most cases running with silence instead of offering realistic advice. Advice much like what you mention above which is perfectly acceptable criticism.
"they are too lazy to google, too lazy to research more reference, just too damn lazy for everything."
"lot of this threads are too early at a stage for feedback."
Inexperienced artists are going to fail, do things wrong and fall on their asses. Its part of the learning process, my hope is the experienced polycount artists continue to offer real and sometimes harsh advice even when its not initially received well.
You will find the artists who are dedicated will come back with better work, they will show you up and maybe even rub it in your face (fantastic!) and the percentage of the community this thread is talking about wont.
Here's a quick mockup of my "dream polycount". There's a bit of PC, ZBC and CGhub all mashed together
Now obviously it's quite a different approach from what we have now and it would require some work. It could also be seen as quite an extreme makeover. But my point is simply that I think we should find ways to focus on what really matters (art > text)...
Knowing that all these icons would link to interesting WIP threads would certainly make me want to browse and critique.
Out of interest, how do they change sizes? Is it number of posts in that thread that makes them larger?
I can see what others mean when they say this kind of style could be bad. Firstly it'll mean more people will go to the hit'n'run ones which was the reason the topic was started, althought you have put in WIP and Final sections to solve this, good idea. It will still probably reduce the number of crits people get while they're in the early stages of production which is when people can benefit from advice the most, and depending on thumbnail size could leave environments unoticed. But, having it temporarily to see what people think should be alright.
Its close to another thought I had which could bring in a thumbnail based browsing page. Keep the forums as they are, maybe with the addition of thumbnails to P&P and sketchbook threads. And add a new page called Images in the top bar beside "News Forum Wiki, etc". This page could show thumbnails of all the recent images and by hovering over the image you get the thread name in text.
So old PC would stay the same and this new page would give a quick visual to all new images and less artwork would get lost in threads.
Well I certainly don't know the factors behind thumbnail size on the CGHub front page but I think that a purely random solution would be great! It would give everybody a chance to be noticed.
And yeah if we go for images, a distinction between WIP and final would be great. No need for an artist to repost everything under a new "Final" thread either - I see this working with some sort of status system, where the OP would go back to his or her thread and flag the last image post as "Finished" for the thread to show up in the Final tab.
Stinger - yeah I like extreme proposals like these, because even if they end up facing defensive reactions they can always bring ideas to the table and some things might stick I agree with your point on making the two systems work together. Again, it already works with the Polycount threads RSS feeds in Pulse ...
Here's a quick mockup of my "dream polycount". There's a bit of PC, ZBC and CGhub all mashed together
Now obviously it's quite a different approach from what we have now and it would require some work. It could also be seen as quite an extreme makeover. But my point is simply that I think we should find ways to focus on what really matters (art > text)...
Knowing that all these icons would link to interesting WIP threads would certainly make me want to browse and critique.
What if there was another page called image wall that did this? Like after forum at the top, it had image wall before wiki. Which then linked to ethier thumb's or images like above.
It seems the 3 biggest things im reading right now are
1- Make polycount more Visual friendly (like pior is saying)
2- Bring more competitions to get more people actively involved//see workflows
3- Put up or shut up. Many people are coming in here tossing in 2 cents and other senior members are attacking them because they dont contribute..where as I dont like to specifically put shame on newbies or hobbiest or whatever. I do have to agree if you want change, toss in your 2cents by doing something about it. And go forth and and make new Bad ass artwork.
This thread has had me so thrilled our community members care this much about the greater good. Its made me want to start a new thread on some new personal(not so personal) Work !
I hope all this time spent by everyone contributing ideas for improving everything isnt falling on deaf ears !!
P.S.-I think adding in a few new Mod's just to keep the old flare of things rolling isnt a bad idea at this point either.
My suggestion would be to get rid of WAYWO and replace it with the sketchbooks sub-board. WAYWO gets 33-34 posts a day, and nearly all of those are art, but it's bloody easy to get lost in the onslaught of content, especially if you have the misfortune to post at the end of a page. Push the sketchbooks, rename it so it's clear it's not just for 2d stuff, maybe even have a weekly spotlight for different threads for those wanting focused crits
And wouldn't the thumbnails and the recent posts stuff mean we'd have to use attachments rather than our own host?
My suggestion would be to get rid of WAYWO and replace it with the sketchbooks sub-board. WAYWO gets 33-34 posts a day, and nearly all of those are art, but it's bloody easy to get lost in the onslaught of content, especially if you have the misfortune to post at the end of a page.
I totally agree with this, but if we had a thread for every small piece of art we would also end up with a fragmented forum.
My suggestion would be to get rid of WAYWO and replace it with the sketchbooks sub-board. WAYWO gets 33-34 posts a day, and nearly all of those are art, but it's bloody easy to get lost in the onslaught of content, especially if you have the misfortune to post at the end of a page. Push the sketchbooks, rename it so it's clear it's not just for 2d stuff, maybe even have a weekly spotlight for different threads for those wanting focused crits
And wouldn't the thumbnails and the recent posts stuff mean we'd have to use attachments rather than our own host?
I disagree. WAYWO is a great way to either post things that dont need a specific thread or in my case browse through other peoples work be it for inspiration or just general interest. Replacing that with 20 individual threads would mean a lot of peoples work wouldnt get exposure at all and miss out on crits that are easy to give in waywo.
My suggestion would be to get rid of WAYWO and replace it with the sketchbooks sub-board. WAYWO gets 33-34 posts a day, and nearly all of those are art, but it's bloody easy to get lost in the onslaught of content, especially if you have the misfortune to post at the end of a page. Push the sketchbooks, rename it so it's clear it's not just for 2d stuff, maybe even have a weekly spotlight for different threads for those wanting focused crits
Agree with that.
To be honest the WAYWO thread is filling so much fast that I never get the opportunity to see most of the update on any specific piece.
And as some people just post in it while they got a specific thread to get more exposure, it just make it redundant to me.
I don't like the whole small/big thumbnails all over the place, its too confusing imo. I like the way that CG gallery is, a small thumbnail to the side of the thread, so you can quickly see what the thread is about, but in a more stuctured way.
is this about redesigning polycount or uncommunicative artist. kinda confuses me a bit.
for page id love to see some updatepanels (ie get instead of post) for fastening up browsing interesting/old treads
@not talking: usually i have the experience noone is interested in what i do until i post some ridiculously bad or good looking shot (then i get a your off to a good start post) otherwise one has to beg for critique until its to late, and one has to start over -> frustration -> only appear as supportive member for technical/artistical questions -> slictly becomming uninterested in community -> loss of probably valuable members
Replies
I think you nailed it. Cgfeedback//Polycount clone should be perfect.
This makes me angry too. When i check the views of my Art dump and the replies. I usually want more comments but people just will not contribute. And i don't have time to go post on another boards....
I also like Stringer88's ideas but with some slight modifications because I think it pushes the threads down too far.
Maybe split the top header into two sections, "WIP Thumbs" and "Gallery Images" like the banners we have now but with an aspect ratio that is a little easier to work with.
I know the thread thumbnails have been discussed and poo-poo'ed in the past but I think they could go a long way into explaining the threads better than words can like Pior pointed out. It would be great if the thumbnail was an image the thread starter could update so people would know if there has been any more work done.
I know I've learnt a whole ton of stuff from reading WiP threads not only for 3d art but for my chosen engine (UDK right now) from this forum and it's hands down the best to receive feedback on what you're doing.
Quick question. With your proposal, Mark, would the preview thumbs at the top be purely for P&P, or would other sub-forums get their respective set of preview images? If not, and the preview thumbs were the same no matter where you were on the site, maybe the spread could be divvied up into a cross section of each of the more image-based subforums? Like tech talk and the sketchbooks getting some room up there as well.
I realize that this stuff is all hypothetical atm. I'm just trying to get an idea of what ppl are thinking.
But then the front page Banner could still be without the thumbnails. And the thumbs bar only showing in P&P and sketchbook sub forums. Also, loving the fact that ppl could pick there own thumbs for their threads. Text could be added to these thumbs, i.e. tutorial, video, enviro, character, low poly, etc....
Polycount is the only 3d art forum I visit regularly, because it's a forum first, and a gallery second. Adding quick-view gallery features would make polycount more like a gallery, and I think that would just add to the number of "non-contributing" members. People who just pop in, browse the featured images, leave some "OMG SO AWESOME <3333" comments, and leave.
Right now, a lot of the people you see posting are willing to actually crit work, and have artistic discussions, because a lot of polycount's content is just that: discussions and crits. If we were to add these gallery features, I think that would diminish the main thing that sets polycount apart as a cg forum, and makes it great.
Thanks for the explanation
Lots of people, especially busy ones, only check stuff like the WAYWO thread and whatever is highlighted at the top of the site. Just too much of a hassle to look through all the threads in P&P.
That would be awesome!
I've always found text-based forums difficult to navigate. Like when I see a cool image featured on ZbrushCentral and then realize that one image is buried somewhere in a 50 page thread. This probably won't be a popular solution, but a personal gallery section instead of sketchbook threads could address this. It can be a lot lower key than CGHub profiles, but just having something like that would make it easier to associate work with artists.
I think the PC wiki should be featured more prominently as well. There's a wealth of information there that would address many newbie questions by itself.
Even in just the last year or so since I started posting here thread rates have become more difficult to keep up with. Any way to help digest these would be welcome.
I agree with this, but if polycount does end up going for some kind of thumbnail system, I'd suggest doing something like Google previews. That, or at least have a similar roll over functionality which shows the thumbnail and the first 30 words or whatever when you roll over a thread. Seems like it might help cut out the clutter.
Actually if people could write a decent thread title we wouldn't need thumbnails...
I can't see it generally impacting how much I read/critique. It will just allow me to get to the things I'm interested in more quickly, and waste less time.
In general I think it's always nice to allow for optional features instead of a hard, no-turning-back switch. CGHub switched to a black theme lately, but at least they still allow registered user the choice to use the classic (and much better!) bright layout.
Also something to note when it comes to visual/laout improvements : we need to be careful about adding too many horizontal divisions. (banners/adds/thumbs/threads). We should keep in mind that most screens and laptops are widescreen now...
But! That really is not the topic of this thread so I won't say much else about it here.
"Another generic sci-fi goblin hallway chick wip" I have wanted to create threads just ranting about bad thread titling. Not that I am great at titling my own threads, but it really bothers me.
On a more relevant note, I'm glad I've been reading this thread as its been going. It's definitely made me think more about how I will participate. It's my new goal to crit people's art more instead of just browsing, thinking of crits and never writing them. I usually browse at work and click on a lot of threads which gives me little time to write crits. Also to ask more questions, I have a lot of questions that I haven't asked.
As for thread thumbnails, I can see both sides of the argument. Some threads could get easily looked over based on a thumbnail, but at the same times ones that would get looked over in text could get views from the thumbnail. I think it's something that has to be tried out. I never thought there was any problem with it on other forums. I generally click most threads just because you can find great info in any one. Overall, I would support it.
Oh and pior +1 for the pulse post.
Edit: oh and as far as spoon-feeding goes..there are some points where people run into issues of "minimum level of competence". Where you need to understand enough about a field to realize how much of a noob you are, and thereby know what questions to ask.
So while it should never be an artists responsibility or obligation to detail their techniques, it can help more than one might realize.
Examples:
Amplifier to practice materials
Pedro modeled this awesome amplifier model and shared everything with us so we could all work on materials/textures.
Per also dropped in and dropped some sexy texture loving and some good texturing advice. Check it out!
Vahl's Awesome Deus Ex scene
Vahl gave us this amazing scene to look at and then gave us the UDK files and all his source art. How did this not make front page or get shared more then it did?
This is just two examples of stuff lately. I am guilty of it too because I'm a moderator and should be sharing this stuff up so guys DON'T MISS THESE THREADS!!!
Lot of stuff can be learned from them.
You've made 31 threads since the last time you mad a P+P thread. I don't think you're really part of the solution.
I think some people forget just how much time this takes us. Some have families, work two jobs (day time gig and then freelance at night), other responsibilities, etc. Sometimes guys are good about responding. Other times not so much. I don't think we should publicly call them out for it though. That just seems kinda silly and childish.
Internet High-Five!
This may be a bit extreme, but you could limit the amount of threads each member is allowed to create per sub-forum.
I know that Pior's mention of CGHUB's frontpage may seem like it's off-topic, but I think it could work to focus people's attention on art over GD. If they go to the frontpage and see lots of art, they may not go directly to GD (or may not go there at all). I hardly ever go to the forums at CGHUB, there's so much art that I can view effortlessly, why jump through hoops and search for it?
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1411900#post1411900
Was planning to anyways, but this thread kicked me to release something a bit early.
What I'd rather see is a way to browse the first post of every thread, or only see the posts made by the thread starter, or something like that. If I try to analyze my own thread browsing habits when checking out a new one, I usually open up a few tabs, read the first post, scroll down until I see another post by the author, good critique by others or just thread-related images. I think I'd rather have it easier to find good contributions than just good art.
my 2 ¶.
And I personally have to agree, you're pretty high on my list of people who post a lot but contribute little of value to polycount. So, if you're gonna call others out, be prepared to critique yourself too.
Kettle, black, blah blah.
i remember the good old days when you posted nothing but tits for days on end =[
I'm an old man with a with and house etc, I don't do much personal art these days, being a huge camera nerd doesn't help either. I'm more active in tech talk than anything.
and the brink thread doesn't count, as that's work work. not personal work. and it was a group effort, monkey boy.
anyway, to get back on topic -
polycounts layout will not change what polycount is, what it reprisents, or the people who come here. there are fundamental things which make the forum great, just because a lot of the veterans and pro's don't post a lot of personal threads (although threads like Tim's are a great example of those), they do provide the helpful insight where needed, and more often than not if they don't answer a question it's probably because they're expecting you to come to the right conclusion after a few hours and one of those "OOOOOOOOOHHHHH!!!!" moments hits you.
for the love of god please don't add in a view counter for threads. it's one of the positive aspects of the forum. people can be disheartened enough by having little to no replies to their work, but it becomes extremely demotivating when there's a 1:800 post/views ratio going on.
i love the idea of having thumbnails for threads.
and i've often wondered why there isn't a portfolio sub-forum, for those who have little/no web design experience, or lack the funding to host a site (i know that sounds rediculous, but it exists).
/ramble.
Right now I'm working with Tactical Assault and I'm trying to get my life back in order(I finally have a job yeah!!!). So when I have something to show I'll be sure to write down how I made it.
MM I agree with you on this, I feel the continual watching, browsing and skimming of tutorials, vid caps and gallery forums without doing the work is hurting many of the less experienced artists. Knowing how to do something and actually doing something are wholly different.
What often happens in a community like polycount is you see a changing of the guard, the experienced members find jobs, get married or grow tired of offering the same advice year after year. Naturally they mostly move on or post less and new artists step up and and cycles continues.
I guess where im going with this is the new guard appears to be, in most cases running with silence instead of offering realistic advice. Advice much like what you mention above which is perfectly acceptable criticism.
"they are too lazy to google, too lazy to research more reference, just too damn lazy for everything."
"lot of this threads are too early at a stage for feedback."
Inexperienced artists are going to fail, do things wrong and fall on their asses. Its part of the learning process, my hope is the experienced polycount artists continue to offer real and sometimes harsh advice even when its not initially received well.
You will find the artists who are dedicated will come back with better work, they will show you up and maybe even rub it in your face (fantastic!) and the percentage of the community this thread is talking about wont.
Now obviously it's quite a different approach from what we have now and it would require some work. It could also be seen as quite an extreme makeover. But my point is simply that I think we should find ways to focus on what really matters (art > text)...
Knowing that all these icons would link to interesting WIP threads would certainly make me want to browse and critique.
I can see what others mean when they say this kind of style could be bad. Firstly it'll mean more people will go to the hit'n'run ones which was the reason the topic was started, althought you have put in WIP and Final sections to solve this, good idea. It will still probably reduce the number of crits people get while they're in the early stages of production which is when people can benefit from advice the most, and depending on thumbnail size could leave environments unoticed. But, having it temporarily to see what people think should be alright.
Its close to another thought I had which could bring in a thumbnail based browsing page. Keep the forums as they are, maybe with the addition of thumbnails to P&P and sketchbook threads. And add a new page called Images in the top bar beside "News Forum Wiki, etc". This page could show thumbnails of all the recent images and by hovering over the image you get the thread name in text.
So old PC would stay the same and this new page would give a quick visual to all new images and less artwork would get lost in threads.
And yeah if we go for images, a distinction between WIP and final would be great. No need for an artist to repost everything under a new "Final" thread either - I see this working with some sort of status system, where the OP would go back to his or her thread and flag the last image post as "Finished" for the thread to show up in the Final tab.
Stinger - yeah I like extreme proposals like these, because even if they end up facing defensive reactions they can always bring ideas to the table and some things might stick
What if there was another page called image wall that did this? Like after forum at the top, it had image wall before wiki. Which then linked to ethier thumb's or images like above.
1- Make polycount more Visual friendly (like pior is saying)
2- Bring more competitions to get more people actively involved//see workflows
3- Put up or shut up. Many people are coming in here tossing in 2 cents and other senior members are attacking them because they dont contribute..where as I dont like to specifically put shame on newbies or hobbiest or whatever. I do have to agree if you want change, toss in your 2cents by doing something about it. And go forth and and make new Bad ass artwork.
This thread has had me so thrilled our community members care this much about the greater good. Its made me want to start a new thread on some new personal(not so personal) Work !
I hope all this time spent by everyone contributing ideas for improving everything isnt falling on deaf ears !!
P.S.-I think adding in a few new Mod's just to keep the old flare of things rolling isnt a bad idea at this point either.
And wouldn't the thumbnails and the recent posts stuff mean we'd have to use attachments rather than our own host?
I totally agree with this, but if we had a thread for every small piece of art we would also end up with a fragmented forum.
I disagree. WAYWO is a great way to either post things that dont need a specific thread or in my case browse through other peoples work be it for inspiration or just general interest. Replacing that with 20 individual threads would mean a lot of peoples work wouldnt get exposure at all and miss out on crits that are easy to give in waywo.
Agree with that.
To be honest the WAYWO thread is filling so much fast that I never get the opportunity to see most of the update on any specific piece.
And as some people just post in it while they got a specific thread to get more exposure, it just make it redundant to me.
stopped reading there
now if you excuse me, I have to wipe the coke of my screen and keyboard..
:poly127:
for page id love to see some updatepanels (ie get instead of post) for fastening up browsing interesting/old treads
@not talking: usually i have the experience noone is interested in what i do until i post some ridiculously bad or good looking shot (then i get a your off to a good start post) otherwise one has to beg for critique until its to late, and one has to start over -> frustration -> only appear as supportive member for technical/artistical questions -> slictly becomming uninterested in community -> loss of probably valuable members