wow, amazing work in this threat! I love the textures, not only the style, but also the craftsmanship.
I secretly copied some of your work in progress textures and especially the making of the pebbles and had to show them to our texture artist: "This is how I want you to paint those textures, now get to work!" *slap*
I really hope he learned something today
a read too. It's my bible for environment presentation ideas.
Also your presentation is nice. Have you thought of putting them on a darker background? It might help the single assets pop a bit more. Make your website/contact info a bit more apparent too. It's too easy for that to get lost looking at the awesome art.
Good stuff as always. This is the kind of thread that makes me come to PC daily. Page 1 is very basic and by page 12 you'll be a seasoned vet.
Love your style, Jess! Thanks for posting this project - looks awesome so far and I'm learning a lot from this thread. I am looking forward to seeing it finished
great update on the concept! Can't wait to see the new textures and models! Making the last building in the background less complex in shape works great. This is gonna be awesome!
Love the additions to the concept as well but I have to admit though, the slew of left-facing cows that are all looking at the viewer is a bit unsettling :0 Especially the one creeping into the corner in the foreground, he seems like he's up to no good.
jeffro - I will def give that tut a read. Thank you for sharing! And I will find a way to put my contact info. on my homepage.
dll - The cows are innocent. And thanks for all your help on the presentation earlier
mheyman - Seems like I have a lot to consider! I'll think about how to better improve my shapes and proportions, and revisit the trees once I have figured it out. This week while I create my villa textures I will pay closer attention to depth and colors - I felt I had added colors in my previous textures, but I guess I need to push it? Also thanks for critting the bushy-tree - looking back, I agree it could use some more tris and layering. When I create the variations for it I will. I really appreciate the critique - if you see anything else as I continue to work, let me know!
Hey guys! Right now I am working on the stucco texture for my villa. At the moment I feel the stucco layers are too obvious and deep for a plain wall texture, so I'm working on kindof flattening it out and adding some smaller, shallower details like pocks and raking instead. This texture is harder than I thought it would be because if the subtlety I have to take into consideration for it!
When this is done I'm gonna make another version with grime on the bottom for crevice areas (but it will be 256 x 512 and only horizontally tiling). Critique and comments welcome:
I like it Jessica. It has a nice warm feel to it and looks like it will go well with the rest of the scene. The tiling looks very good as I dont see obvious repetition there. I cannot wait to see it applied to a building, keep it up.
Your painting style consistently wows me, that stucco is awesome! The only tiling bit that is easily spotted is the crack on the upper left corner, other than that its damn near perfect
And thanks for catching that tiling error Tokoya xD I've addressed it, hopefully you don't see it there anymore
So I think I've got the stucco in a good place; the layers should be raised just enough not to be distracting now. Moving on to the grime variation, hehe - this part is funn. btw I've just figured out how to add cool smilies, so now you will probably see an overabundance of them in my posts :poly142:
This might be a dumb question, but is it possible for a prop that's using tileable textures to have an ao map?
If the engine you're using allows for a second UV channel you can throw an ao in there. Alternatively you can use vertex colors to bake the lighting directly into the verts of your mesh. The engine has to support vertex colors though.
This might be a dumb question, but is it possible for a prop that's using tileable textures to have an ao map?
Sure!
You don't even need a 2nd UV channel (you can bake an AO map on an object even if you have overlap on it).
You can bake it, then, in the engine, multiply your diffuse by the AO (exactly like you would have done in photoshop, but because your doing this in the engine, you'll keep your diffuse clean (aka without AO )).
Dunno in which engine your doing this, but in the UDK it's really easy.
If it's not really clear, I'll make a little tutorial if you like.
@Bunglo & dii : I think you're mistaking AO and lightmaps here.
Hey thanks for the responses guys! GoSsS - I am using UDK. And I would super appreciate a tutorial if you have the time. I know how to make a second UV set, but if you say I don't even need to do that, I'm curious to find out what you mean. I am talking about my building in particular, for which I will be using multiple material ID's. Does having the multiple material ID's complicate anything at all?
So I guess my specific questions are: How would I go about baking the AO when my uv's have overlap? Which material would I multiply the AO map to if I am going to have multiple materials? All of them?
Sure!
You don't even need a 2nd UV channel (you can bake an AO map on an object even if you have overlap on it).
You can bake it, then, in the engine, multiply your diffuse by the AO (exactly like you would have done in photoshop, but because your doing this in the engine, you'll keep your diffuse clean (aka without AO )).
Dunno in which engine your doing this, but in the UDK it's really easy.
If it's not really clear, I'll make a little tutorial if you like.
@Bunglo & dii : I think you're mistaking AO and lightmaps here.
Only if you keep your UVs under the 1x1 space and tile the diffuse via shader I guess, then I can see it working, but how could you possibly bake AO if the UVs are stretched out beyond the 1x1 working area?
Edit: I'm assuming she's stretching the UVs, but even so she's at least overlapping them which wouldn't work either. Jessica, IMHO the best option sounds like baking it to your vertex colors, I think it'd be a lot cheaper than having a second set of UVs AND a separate AO map.
I reserve this song for the true greats, but you've earned it, so here goes...
Did you ever know that you're my heeeerrrrooooo?
You're everything I wish I could beeeeeee
I could fly higher than an eeeaaaaaglee
Cause you are the wind beneath my wiiiiingggggs
Seriously, just get that Blizzard internship already. Just don't forget about us little people.
Only if you keep your UVs under the 1x1 space and tile the diffuse via shader I guess, then I can see it working
This might be a dumb question, but is it possible for a prop that's using tileable textures to have an ao map?
I dont think youll go over the 1x1 space for a prop. But if its the caseand you want an AO just to add details like trims and stuff like that its ok (because youll usually go for a stretching on the X axis)
Here is an example (I dont want to pollute your post with bad images so Ill keep them just as links ):
I did these models quickly to mimic the kind of shapes you have on your artwork.
http://gaetm.free.fr/help/Result_AO.jpg
(lighting is baked on the vertices + a value of 2/2 used on the texcoord node for the color map (wanted it to tile a bit more))
As you can see here : http://gaetm.free.fr/help/UVs_AO.jpg , the UVs use the -1 to 1 space on the UVs (you can also see the AO added on top of the color map)
The good thing with this technique is that you can use 3 differents AO maps in only one texture using the R G and B independently (even 4 if youre using the alpha ).
Example :
If you want to be able to choose between the channels using instances of a master material it is possible, using this method
(dunno if there is a simpler version but this is how I do it and it works )
So, with this technique, youll have to unwrap your UVs only on the X axis (could also be on the Y but it depends on your AO (if it is Y tileable friendly or not )).
If you want to make the color map even more repetitive, you can use the texcoord node as shown on the material (you can use different values for X and Y etc.)
So, to summarize, you can use the AO with the exact same UVs to add some details or occlusion from the wood pieces and, on top of that, use a second UV channel or use the vertex color (depending if you have enough vertices) to bake the lighting on your model (in the UDK).
Thanks GoSsS, that is really inventive. It involves what I said before about tiling the diffuse through the shader butI totally overlooked the possibilities of multiple AOs in one texture. Also, sorry if I came out like an ass, just read my post again and it came out with a bad tone.
However, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it does seem a little unnecessarily expensive. For "last-gen" stuff like this I think you could just add the geometry to get a good vertex bake, even that trim on the bottom of the tower could be modeled with enough geometry surrounding it for a good bake. It would have a better silhouette and one material, with less texture fetches, shader instructions and draw calls. I think your method could work wonders on next gen stuff but for her case in particular the simpler approach seems more cost-effective.
Yeah, maybe that's not the best method for this kind of stuff but I was just answering her question for the AO
I don't know what's better in her case, but I think you're right.
Never thought your post came out with a bad tone, so, no probs
LOL Nerf Bat Ninja, makin me blush. Thanks for all the comments guys!
And wow, GoSsS, that is one in-depth tutorial I will have to pore over it a bit to fully understand (I'm a bit noob when it comes to shaders and UV's in general), but I'm sure with the abundance of straightforward images you linked, I should get it soon haha. It was great actually getting to see the results of what you were explaining!
I may end up going with felipefrango's idea though, if it is ultimately cheaper for the kind of project I am working on. So now I will also need to look into how to bake lighting into vertex colors!
But really, much thanks for all the help and advice
It's quite simple, really, it's super late here and I just got home from the movie theater. I'll look up some tutorials on this tomorrow, or even show some stuff we do at work as an example, but it's really as simple as positioning lights and pressing a few buttons.
So, I wrote a tutorial on baking vertex lighting. Not sure if it's the best method out there but here's how I do it anyway. I'll just link to it instead of embedding the image cause its quite big. Anyway, hope it helps!
Another possibility is using a second UV set and handpainting an AO map for your props. This way you can make sure the shading won't clash with the style of your diffuse textures.
So, I wrote a tutorial on baking vertex lighting. Not sure if it's the best method out there but here's how I do it anyway. I'll just link to it instead of embedding the image cause its quite big. Anyway, hope it helps!
Nice, I'm glad it helped! I've used simple primitives to illustrate the principles but you can do anything really, props, interiors, terrain, whatever. At work we used it to light a huge asteroid with tunnels that used tiling rock textures and we did what I wrote in the last paragraph, baked AO in the vertex alpha channel and lighting in the vertex color, it looks as good as if it was lightmapped considering the massive scale of the asset (its a space sim game and the asteroid is like 20 miles long) and the occlusion helped make the tunnels darker with no need to use real time shadows and other expensive stuff.
Hey thanks felipefrango! That does seem pretty straightforward - so basically I am using my vertices to create a permanent AO that is a part of my actual mesh, and nothing to do with texture maps or UV's, right? In any case, I will try it out soon. Great to hear that you used it at work and it looks quite good!
Also, thanks for the suggestion of yet another alternate method Evil Flower. Never too many ways to skin a cat, and I'm sure this method will come in handy some time or another.
Here is some aging stuff for the stucco texture. I made two variations, one where the grime is dripping down, and another where dirt collects at the bottom.
I've been following this thread and I must say everything has been inspirational.I especially love you color choices. Looking forward to future amazing updates.
The stucco is pretty nice. You really captured that texture.
Roof tiles need some work. It looks like a block out stage. The quality doesn't match the stucco and those next to each other are going to look real off. I'd polish that one up a bit more.
As jeffro said the stucco looks sweet, great work on that.
I do agree to some part with the roof tiles I don't think it looks as unfinished as a blockout, but I think you maybe can push some more details in the shadows, like the selfshadowing from the other tiles seams a bit to flat right there.
Just amazing how good some of the textures look and the concept you made for your scene
15 hour block-out? oh noes.. Haha I will go back and see what I can do, such as working on the details in the shadows. Is there anything else in particular that stands out, or does this just need more work in general?
Well one reason it might look like that to some can be that the brush marks is very visible, maybe try to blend them some more, unless you are going for that kind of look.
I like both versions as long as it's done well, and I have no doubt about that part.
Your textures keep getting better and better o.o They almost seem to improve per update.
I feel like the grime dripping down the white wall is a bit to ... can't think of the right word...
But I don't think it matches the rest of the style/texture. You seem to use a lot of broad strokes and keep the strokes visible in all your textures, which clearly shows the handpaintyness (< totally a word) of your textures and that's a huge part of their charm. The grime seems to thin/small and looks like it was compressed/scaled or formed using several photoshop tricks, rather than good old painting skills like the rest of your texture.
Hey thanks felipefrango! That does seem pretty straightforward - so basically I am using my vertices to create a permanent AO that is a part of my actual mesh, and nothing to do with texture maps or UV's, right? In any case, I will try it out soon. Great to hear that you used it at work and it looks quite good!
That's it, but it's not necessarily AO or light, baking vertex color information is essentially attaching more information to your vertices that can then be used by the shader to do a lot of different stuff. You could use colors to blend between textures (red being the default stucco, green could be some sort of damaged stucco, for example), control mesh transparency or on shaders that distort the mesh it can be used to control the amount of distortion. It's all about how the shader deals with the data it is being fed.
Your value range is pretty narrow with this one. It just doesn't have that level of polish that the stucco one does.
Try introducing some brighter highs, and a bit more cool greens in the shadows. I'd start there and go from those things.
I totally agree with you. I have worked 10-15 hours of textures that just aren't there. I've also knocked textures out in 45 minutes that look oodles better than the 15 hour textures. Just keep at it and you'll get faster and better.
One approach is to practice on getting 1 tile to look awesome then throw it out and redo that across a whole texture. It's a little R&D kinda thing that helps me when I'm struggling with a surface.
Replies
I secretly copied some of your work in progress textures and especially the making of the pebbles and had to show them to our texture artist: "This is how I want you to paint those textures, now get to work!" *slap*
I really hope he learned something today
http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/phil_straub_composition_tutorial
a read too. It's my bible for environment presentation ideas.
Also your presentation is nice. Have you thought of putting them on a darker background? It might help the single assets pop a bit more. Make your website/contact info a bit more apparent too. It's too easy for that to get lost looking at the awesome art.
Good stuff as always. This is the kind of thread that makes me come to PC daily. Page 1 is very basic and by page 12 you'll be a seasoned vet.
Jessica, you're illustration skills are phenomenal. Very well done
Love the additions to the concept as well but I have to admit though, the slew of left-facing cows that are all looking at the viewer is a bit unsettling :0 Especially the one creeping into the corner in the foreground, he seems like he's up to no good.
jeffro - I will def give that tut a read. Thank you for sharing! And I will find a way to put my contact info. on my homepage.
dll - The cows are innocent. And thanks for all your help on the presentation earlier
mheyman - Seems like I have a lot to consider! I'll think about how to better improve my shapes and proportions, and revisit the trees once I have figured it out. This week while I create my villa textures I will pay closer attention to depth and colors - I felt I had added colors in my previous textures, but I guess I need to push it? Also thanks for critting the bushy-tree - looking back, I agree it could use some more tris and layering. When I create the variations for it I will. I really appreciate the critique - if you see anything else as I continue to work, let me know!
When this is done I'm gonna make another version with grime on the bottom for crevice areas (but it will be 256 x 512 and only horizontally tiling). Critique and comments welcome:
512 x 512
Here it is, shown tiling:
Thanks!
Jessica
And thanks for catching that tiling error Tokoya xD I've addressed it, hopefully you don't see it there anymore
So I think I've got the stucco in a good place; the layers should be raised just enough not to be distracting now. Moving on to the grime variation, hehe - this part is funn. btw I've just figured out how to add cool smilies, so now you will probably see an overabundance of them in my posts :poly142:
If the engine you're using allows for a second UV channel you can throw an ao in there. Alternatively you can use vertex colors to bake the lighting directly into the verts of your mesh. The engine has to support vertex colors though.
http://www.3dmotive.com/training/free/creating-a-lightmap-uv-channel/?follow=true
Edit: what he said
Sure!
You don't even need a 2nd UV channel (you can bake an AO map on an object even if you have overlap on it).
You can bake it, then, in the engine, multiply your diffuse by the AO (exactly like you would have done in photoshop, but because your doing this in the engine, you'll keep your diffuse clean (aka without AO
Dunno in which engine your doing this, but in the UDK it's really easy.
If it's not really clear, I'll make a little tutorial if you like.
@Bunglo & dii : I think you're mistaking AO and lightmaps here.
So I guess my specific questions are: How would I go about baking the AO when my uv's have overlap? Which material would I multiply the AO map to if I am going to have multiple materials? All of them?
Thanks!
Only if you keep your UVs under the 1x1 space and tile the diffuse via shader I guess, then I can see it working, but how could you possibly bake AO if the UVs are stretched out beyond the 1x1 working area?
Edit: I'm assuming she's stretching the UVs, but even so she's at least overlapping them which wouldn't work either. Jessica, IMHO the best option sounds like baking it to your vertex colors, I think it'd be a lot cheaper than having a second set of UVs AND a separate AO map.
Awesome stuff!!!
^_^
Amazing work!
wtf... get a hold of yourself come on :poly142:
Really nice texture work you got here !
I dont think youll go over the 1x1 space for a prop. But if its the caseand you want an AO just to add details like trims and stuff like that its ok (because youll usually go for a stretching on the X axis)
Here is an example (I dont want to pollute your post with bad images so Ill keep them just as links
I did these models quickly to mimic the kind of shapes you have on your artwork.
http://gaetm.free.fr/help/Result_AO.jpg
(lighting is baked on the vertices + a value of 2/2 used on the texcoord node for the color map (wanted it to tile a bit more))
As you can see here : http://gaetm.free.fr/help/UVs_AO.jpg , the UVs use the -1 to 1 space on the UVs (you can also see the AO added on top of the color map)
The good thing with this technique is that you can use 3 differents AO maps in only one texture using the R G and B independently (even 4 if youre using the alpha
Example :
http://gaetm.free.fr/help/RGB_AO.jpg
If you want to be able to choose between the channels using instances of a master material it is possible, using this method
(dunno if there is a simpler version but this is how I do it and it works
So, with this technique, youll have to unwrap your UVs only on the X axis (could also be on the Y but it depends on your AO (if it is Y tileable friendly or not
If you want to make the color map even more repetitive, you can use the texcoord node as shown on the material (you can use different values for X and Y etc.)
So, to summarize, you can use the AO with the exact same UVs to add some details or occlusion from the wood pieces and, on top of that, use a second UV channel or use the vertex color (depending if you have enough vertices) to bake the lighting on your model (in the UDK).
Hope it helped
However, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it does seem a little unnecessarily expensive. For "last-gen" stuff like this I think you could just add the geometry to get a good vertex bake, even that trim on the bottom of the tower could be modeled with enough geometry surrounding it for a good bake. It would have a better silhouette and one material, with less texture fetches, shader instructions and draw calls. I think your method could work wonders on next gen stuff but for her case in particular the simpler approach seems more cost-effective.
I don't know what's better in her case, but I think you're right.
Never thought your post came out with a bad tone, so, no probs
And wow, GoSsS, that is one in-depth tutorial
I may end up going with felipefrango's idea though, if it is ultimately cheaper for the kind of project I am working on. So now I will also need to look into how to bake lighting into vertex colors!
But really, much thanks for all the help and advice
More textures coming soon!
http://i.imgur.com/Jmt6p.jpg
Thank you so much for making and sharing this, I will try it out in the future!
Also, thanks for the suggestion of yet another alternate method Evil Flower. Never too many ways to skin a cat, and I'm sure this method will come in handy some time or another.
Here is some aging stuff for the stucco texture. I made two variations, one where the grime is dripping down, and another where dirt collects at the bottom.
Here's my roof tileable:
Currently working on a cobblestone texture!
Critique and comments welcome,
Jessica
Roof tiles need some work. It looks like a block out stage. The quality doesn't match the stucco and those next to each other are going to look real off. I'd polish that one up a bit more.
Otherwise good stuff as always.
I do agree to some part with the roof tiles I don't think it looks as unfinished as a blockout, but I think you maybe can push some more details in the shadows, like the selfshadowing from the other tiles seams a bit to flat right there.
Just amazing how good some of the textures look and the concept you made for your scene
Thanks for critiques!
Jess
I like both versions as long as it's done well, and I have no doubt about that part.
I feel like the grime dripping down the white wall is a bit to ... can't think of the right word...
But I don't think it matches the rest of the style/texture. You seem to use a lot of broad strokes and keep the strokes visible in all your textures, which clearly shows the handpaintyness (< totally a word) of your textures and that's a huge part of their charm. The grime seems to thin/small and looks like it was compressed/scaled or formed using several photoshop tricks, rather than good old painting skills like the rest of your texture.
Keep up the good work, epic progress is epic!
That's it, but it's not necessarily AO or light, baking vertex color information is essentially attaching more information to your vertices that can then be used by the shader to do a lot of different stuff. You could use colors to blend between textures (red being the default stucco, green could be some sort of damaged stucco, for example), control mesh transparency or on shaders that distort the mesh it can be used to control the amount of distortion. It's all about how the shader deals with the data it is being fed.
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Try introducing some brighter highs, and a bit more cool greens in the shadows. I'd start there and go from those things.
I totally agree with you. I have worked 10-15 hours of textures that just aren't there. I've also knocked textures out in 45 minutes that look oodles better than the 15 hour textures. Just keep at it and you'll get faster and better.
One approach is to practice on getting 1 tile to look awesome then throw it out and redo that across a whole texture. It's a little R&D kinda thing that helps me when I'm struggling with a surface.