Really beautiful work! I wish I had your painting skills.
I hope you will start another one soon.
Will follow it as closely as this one for sure.
Very entertaining. Great work!
Really awesome job! I've been following this thread for awhile, and I can't wait to see what you do next, not to mention see everyone's feedback / ideas / techniques being posted as well.
This has probably been one of the most tip filled thread in awhile (next to the awesome tech threads).
I agree with many others here, put her on a banner!
This thread is one of the largest threads I've seen on polycount. It's filled with lot and lots of handpainted texture advice, and it shows Jessica's progression from tiling texture noob to stunning handpainted texture artist, the final pieces is one of the nicest looking handpainted 3D scenes I've seen here on polycount.
At the very least showcase her final product and or use this thread as a base for a handpainted texture sticky thread!
hey jessica, i've been following this thread for a while and just want to say amazing work! your a fantastic artist. I think i've had the page with Haiasi's little tut thing and dan!'s pillar thing open on tabs for days. I just can't wrap my head around how to lay out the UV's properly so that they tile correctly. you seem to have nailed it with the house. any chance we can get a peek at the uv's for that model? do you just separate out parts and then mirror the uv's across them? for example from dan!'s little tut, what happens to the uv's that arn't on the texture map? do they get mirrored?
this thread is a wealth of information aside from my lack of understanding so thanks for that!
hathol - In the UV Editor, although your texture only previews within the 0,0 space (inside that little blue box), it is actually duplicated infinitely in all directions. So you can definitely have your shells outside of that little blue box, the texture will still be covering it, and there won't be any seams because, well - your texture is seamless!
In this example, none of my shells in fact happen to be in the 0,0. But it doesn't matter:
If you would like your texture preview to expand beyond the 0,0 space, go to Options in the UV Editor window > Preferences . . . > Display Preferences, and increase the Tiles #.
The fact that the 0,0 space is replicated infinitely in all directions is the thing that was stopping me from understanding tileable textures when I was first learning it. I had the concept in the back of my mind, but it just wasn't clicking for me for some reason hahaha. I hope this helps, and if you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.
Tigerfeet - Not exactly sure what the other thread names will be, but one for sure is going to be Pandaren Brewery (fanart hehehe) and I expect to post it sometime tomorrow.
omg honestly just as i was playing around with it after i wrote to you i figured out that its just infinitely tiling and i was like holy.. this is the aha moment. so do you just make your texture map with multiple 256x256 square tileable images? or use separate texture maps?
i think i was also having trouble unwrapping my cylinder.. or unwrapping in general.. but i had a feeling that you had to flatten it out into squareish blocks. (blender is a bit awkward with its uv tools so i was getting very strange projections). i ran into similar issues while drooling over your trees attempting to replicate them. Thanks so much for the response and any tips on UV unwrapping (like your trees...) would be superawesome!
I'm glad you figured it out on your own haha, that is always the best way :] Unwrapping cylinders is really easy, just flatten them into a rectangle and have the tops/bottoms be separate shells. My trees, therefore, are really easy to unwrap too!
I build the trunk and branches as perfect cylinders, unwrap them rectangularly, texture them, and finally go in and play with the geometry, move it around and stuff so the trunk and branches look more crooked/bendy/natural. But I do that last, so I don't have to unwrap crooked/bendy/natural-looking branches! That would be a pain xD
Don't worry at all about the small stretching you will get when you alter the geometry after texturing. A lot of the times this stretching actually looks really good for organic things. You can even go back and paint up your texture more after altering your geometry. I find this whole back-and-forth process of texturing and unwrapping very organic and flexible.
In this example, none of my shells in fact happen to be in the 0,0. But it doesn't matter:
wait what? sorry to go off topic but you dont need your uv's to be inside that blue square? ive been doing it wrong then trying to always fit my textures into that square area? lol
Mind. Blown. Did not know this about tileable textures!
Also, great tip on modeling trees Jessica! That sounds way easier than stressing over an organic shape for something as simple as a tree! Although the current tree I have modeled and will *eventually* texture (:() has more of a compacted trunk, so I don't know if that would work for it. However, I'll definitely keep that in mind next time I make some more tree assets!
I'm actually surprised to see how many people didn't know about this. I think this was one of the first things I've learned about texturing. But on a sidenote you can realy get creative with that stuff. I once used this to make just a little area at the top of the texture horizontally tilable, so I could stretch something out over there and have a unique texture space below it.
I hope this makes sense and can help you even more to get the most out of your UV space!
So let me just get this straight. your supposed to have multiple smaller texture maps specifically for the tilleable parts of multiple objects and then individual maps for other unique pieces (which are also diffent pieces of multiple models?).
Also, How does that effect gpu performance I thought it works harder the more texture maps a model has. I'm just trying to understand this whole process. I mean similar to the trees couldn't you just line up the uvs so that they tile? Basically what I'm asking is how do you know what gets it's own texture map and what shares.
Thx for all the help to Jessica and everyone in this thread.
Oh and also I definitely think that they should put up a banner of the scene. Or just the cow. They're both great
dissonance - No way! hahaha thanks that is really flattering :]
Seirei - I'm surprised too :0 I thought I was the only one was clueless about them haha. It is obviously not the first thing I learned when I started texturing. I just learned a very linear process of building a model, unwrapping it, and packing it into the 0,0 for texturing. Thanks very much for sharing about your combo use of tiling/unique texture - that is smart! :poly124:
hathol - I think I get what you're asking . . . My villa is one object using one material. However, instead of Standard material, it is using a material called Multi/sub-object. Multi/sub-object allows you to use different textures for different parts of the model. My villa uses 5 different textures, 4 of which are small tileables (stucco, rooftile, cobblestone, and stucco grime/rooftile sides) and 1 1024 map that holds the textures for all the unique parts of the building, like doors, windows, planters, etc.
To create a Multi-sub/object material, click the 'Standard' button in the Material editor and you will find it in a list. Then create materials for each of the textures you want to use and drag them into the numbered slots (the numbers represent the Material ID). You will then need to assign your polygons their corresponding textures using the Material IDs; while in polygon mode, scroll down that menu on the right and you will find Set ID in the Material IDs section. Also in that section is Select ID, which is pretty self-explanatory.
When you load your prop into UDK with the Multi/sub-object material on it, UDK will provide you with multiple slots to input your different textures.
And yeah, the more Material IDs your prop uses, the more costly. However, let's say I wanted to build a whole town of like 100 villas - they'd only require those 5 textures to load, which is much better than if each building had like its own unique 2048 texture or something like that (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about all this, hahaha xD).
It works harder the more texture maps a model has.
Yes, a bit.
In the top image, you can see there are 12 chunks of polygons, so 12 draw calls.
Every 'split' in the model is a draw call. Every UV island is an extra draw call, every smoothing group, every instance of a prop in the scene. Everything gets divvied up in to small bite sized pieces. Having two smaller pieces instead of a large one doesn't cost any more effort to render, but it does take every so slightly more time because instead of the CPU telling the GPU "now render this", it has to say "now render this, and that".
In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge slowdown, but you've got to take it in consideration. For instance, try to keep your UV islands as large as possible: unwrapping a hand is better done as a top and bottom shell (2 drawcalls in total), in comparison to having a cylinder for every finger, and then the fingertips, and so on (over a dozen drawcalls).
As for figuring out what gets loose tiles and what not, that's VERY case-by-case but I can recommend thinking in 3 sorts of textures: Tileable XY - these are things like grass, dirt, and that brick thing a few posts up. Every material gets it's own sheet.
Tileable strips - they only tile one way, like rainpipe, rope, and crown molding. You can stack a bunch of these on top of eachother in one map to keep things manageable.
Loose objects - everything else. But you will probably want to group them into logical sheets. For example one sheet with all the plants on it. Then if there are no plants in the scene, that texture doesn't need to be loaded.
Awesome stuff! This turned out brilliantly. Individually the pieces look great and you've done a really solid job fitting them together as a whole with one consistent, pleasing style.
Really nice presentation on all your props/textures. Clean, easy to look at and read. I love the shot of your barrels and flowers.
Congrats on a great environment, you progressed a huge amount over this thread and it was great to watch.
Hello Jessica, I love your texture work and stylized modeling!
I am a high poly/character sculptor originally, but I am currently working on several "low poly" pieces to better myself in this area. Your thread is an absolute inspiration and something that one day I will be able to achieve the same level.
I cannot wait to see more work from you!
[PS. Your texture breakdowns and .gif images were immensely helpful in seeing your style breakdown haha]
I went to save your finals for inspiration, and well, would you look at that. My computer mysteriously saved them to polycount banner resolution. weird....
In the top image, you can see there are 12 chunks of polygons, so 12 draw calls.
I'm 99.9% sure that image is vastly incorrect. The material splits, yes, but the rest should be bundled into a single draw call. You'll have extra verts around but every UV split is most certainly not a draw call.
I'm 99.9% sure that image is vastly incorrect. The material splits, yes, but the rest should be bundled into a single draw call. You'll have extra verts around but every UV split is most certainly not a draw call.
The image is correct, the interpretation is wrong, that image is about vertex counts not draw calls.
aweseome final scene and overall progress, probably the best example of how much it is worth to sticking through with an idea.
tiny nitpick: why do you have the keg texture doubled with different hues? that could have been done with just putting diffuse color or vertex colors (resulting in overall more texture space). also: not as important for this project but maybe for later projects: across one surface material (in this case the barrel wood) try to keep one texture/uv orientation. This helps massively when working with generic materials (like detail normal maps or gradients).
Congratulations! The final scene is very beautiful and this thread was a great way to learn new things. I can´t wait to see your next work.
By the way, I checked your blog and loved your sketches!
Crazy awesome to see the progress from you needing this knowledge (early pages of this thread) to dropping knowledge for others 20 pages in.
hah, yes, thats exactly what i was thinking, too!
wouldnt havethought that there is actually a discussion going on right here, why doesnt anybody invite me to the party? i had the first pages open for a long time over and over again and thought the last pages would only be the casual "+1 *yay" comments >.>
i underestimated you polycount... i'm sry
ontopic:
just now as i see the texture once again, i may nitpick a little, too
i would recommend to copy the whole image and blur it.
Then put it beneath the still sharp original.
This way you have a gradient benath your diffuse, blending in with the alpha map. thats at least what i learned...
the benefit is that you have no bleeding pixels, or at least lesser noticeeable ones.
I went to save your finals for inspiration, and well, would you look at that. My computer mysteriously saved them to polycount banner resolution. weird....
Thats funny, can you believe the same happened to me?
I've already said this... but it's worth to repeat. This thread should be on PC showcase. So much useful information, and such beautiful artwork shouldn't fall in oblivion. This thread deserves the highlight.
The image is correct, the interpretation is wrong, that image is about vertex counts not draw calls.
But isn't it so that each draw call only renders a bunch of connected/stripped triangles? And that thus each triangle island, including those from smoothing group/mesh splits, is a new draw call?
would love to see some more detail in the chateau's steps and i think its missing a touch of bedded in-ness... possibly some alpha decals around the arches and windows to make them sit better would help it to look a touch more solid
Ahh, oh my goodness, I can't express enough how honored I am to be added to the banners . . . thank you so much to everybody for supporting my work and helping me to make it better!! :D:D
Replies
I hope you will start another one soon.
Will follow it as closely as this one for sure.
Very entertaining. Great work!
Really awesome job! I've been following this thread for awhile, and I can't wait to see what you do next, not to mention see everyone's feedback / ideas / techniques being posted as well.
This has probably been one of the most tip filled thread in awhile (next to the awesome tech threads).
Moar please
This thread is one of the largest threads I've seen on polycount. It's filled with lot and lots of handpainted texture advice, and it shows Jessica's progression from tiling texture noob to stunning handpainted texture artist, the final pieces is one of the nicest looking handpainted 3D scenes I've seen here on polycount.
At the very least showcase her final product and or use this thread as a base for a handpainted texture sticky thread!
And thanks everyone else too for your awesome compliments :'] Within the next few weeks I will be starting a couple new threads. Excited!!
Good stuff!
this thread is a wealth of information aside from my lack of understanding so thanks for that!
In this example, none of my shells in fact happen to be in the 0,0. But it doesn't matter:
If you would like your texture preview to expand beyond the 0,0 space, go to Options in the UV Editor window > Preferences . . . > Display Preferences, and increase the Tiles #.
The fact that the 0,0 space is replicated infinitely in all directions is the thing that was stopping me from understanding tileable textures when I was first learning it. I had the concept in the back of my mind, but it just wasn't clicking for me for some reason hahaha. I hope this helps, and if you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.
Tigerfeet - Not exactly sure what the other thread names will be, but one for sure is going to be Pandaren Brewery (fanart hehehe) and I expect to post it sometime tomorrow.
i think i was also having trouble unwrapping my cylinder.. or unwrapping in general..
cheers, cant wait for you to put up more art!
I build the trunk and branches as perfect cylinders, unwrap them rectangularly, texture them, and finally go in and play with the geometry, move it around and stuff so the trunk and branches look more crooked/bendy/natural. But I do that last, so I don't have to unwrap crooked/bendy/natural-looking branches! That would be a pain xD
Don't worry at all about the small stretching you will get when you alter the geometry after texturing. A lot of the times this stretching actually looks really good for organic things. You can even go back and paint up your texture more after altering your geometry. I find this whole back-and-forth process of texturing and unwrapping very organic and flexible.
Do a post mortem breakdown of the project on vimeo or youtubes!
wait what? sorry to go off topic but you dont need your uv's to be inside that blue square? ive been doing it wrong then trying to always fit my textures into that square area? lol
Also, great tip on modeling trees Jessica! That sounds way easier than stressing over an organic shape for something as simple as a tree! Although the current tree I have modeled and will *eventually* texture (:() has more of a compacted trunk, so I don't know if that would work for it. However, I'll definitely keep that in mind next time I make some more tree assets!
I hope this makes sense and can help you even more to get the most out of your UV space!
Also, How does that effect gpu performance I thought it works harder the more texture maps a model has. I'm just trying to understand this whole process. I mean similar to the trees couldn't you just line up the uvs so that they tile? Basically what I'm asking is how do you know what gets it's own texture map and what shares.
Thx for all the help to Jessica and everyone in this thread.
Oh and also I definitely think that they should put up a banner of the scene. Or just the cow. They're both great
Seirei - I'm surprised too :0 I thought I was the only one was clueless about them haha. It is obviously not the first thing I learned when I started texturing. I just learned a very linear process of building a model, unwrapping it, and packing it into the 0,0 for texturing. Thanks very much for sharing about your combo use of tiling/unique texture - that is smart! :poly124:
hathol - I think I get what you're asking . . . My villa is one object using one material. However, instead of Standard material, it is using a material called Multi/sub-object. Multi/sub-object allows you to use different textures for different parts of the model. My villa uses 5 different textures, 4 of which are small tileables (stucco, rooftile, cobblestone, and stucco grime/rooftile sides) and 1 1024 map that holds the textures for all the unique parts of the building, like doors, windows, planters, etc.
To create a Multi-sub/object material, click the 'Standard' button in the Material editor and you will find it in a list. Then create materials for each of the textures you want to use and drag them into the numbered slots (the numbers represent the Material ID). You will then need to assign your polygons their corresponding textures using the Material IDs; while in polygon mode, scroll down that menu on the right and you will find Set ID in the Material IDs section. Also in that section is Select ID, which is pretty self-explanatory.
When you load your prop into UDK with the Multi/sub-object material on it, UDK will provide you with multiple slots to input your different textures.
And yeah, the more Material IDs your prop uses, the more costly. However, let's say I wanted to build a whole town of like 100 villas - they'd only require those 5 textures to load, which is much better than if each building had like its own unique 2048 texture or something like that (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about all this, hahaha xD).
In the top image, you can see there are 12 chunks of polygons, so 12 draw calls.
Every 'split' in the model is a draw call. Every UV island is an extra draw call, every smoothing group, every instance of a prop in the scene. Everything gets divvied up in to small bite sized pieces. Having two smaller pieces instead of a large one doesn't cost any more effort to render, but it does take every so slightly more time because instead of the CPU telling the GPU "now render this", it has to say "now render this, and that".
In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge slowdown, but you've got to take it in consideration. For instance, try to keep your UV islands as large as possible: unwrapping a hand is better done as a top and bottom shell (2 drawcalls in total), in comparison to having a cylinder for every finger, and then the fingertips, and so on (over a dozen drawcalls).
As for figuring out what gets loose tiles and what not, that's VERY case-by-case but I can recommend thinking in 3 sorts of textures:
Tileable XY - these are things like grass, dirt, and that brick thing a few posts up. Every material gets it's own sheet.
Tileable strips - they only tile one way, like rainpipe, rope, and crown molding. You can stack a bunch of these on top of eachother in one map to keep things manageable.
Loose objects - everything else. But you will probably want to group them into logical sheets. For example one sheet with all the plants on it. Then if there are no plants in the scene, that texture doesn't need to be loaded.
Really nice presentation on all your props/textures. Clean, easy to look at and read. I love the shot of your barrels and flowers.
Congrats on a great environment, you progressed a huge amount over this thread and it was great to watch.
I'm pretty sure this is inaccurate, each split duplicates the verts, thereby raising the actual vert count.
The amount of materials (and types of passes) raises the draw count though.
I am a high poly/character sculptor originally, but I am currently working on several "low poly" pieces to better myself in this area. Your thread is an absolute inspiration and something that one day I will be able to achieve the same level.
I cannot wait to see more work from you!
[PS. Your texture breakdowns and .gif images were immensely helpful in seeing your style breakdown haha]
I'm 99.9% sure that image is vastly incorrect. The material splits, yes, but the rest should be bundled into a single draw call. You'll have extra verts around but every UV split is most certainly not a draw call.
The image is correct, the interpretation is wrong, that image is about vertex counts not draw calls.
paulsvoboda - Thank you so much haha. Your own work is a great inspiration to me.
TheTurner - It's great to hear you enjoyed my thread. Awesome that you are trying out something new :]
Justin, m4dcow,Warren Marshall - Thanks for clearing up that image :0
aweseome final scene and overall progress, probably the best example of how much it is worth to sticking through with an idea.
tiny nitpick: why do you have the keg texture doubled with different hues? that could have been done with just putting diffuse color or vertex colors (resulting in overall more texture space). also: not as important for this project but maybe for later projects: across one surface material (in this case the barrel wood) try to keep one texture/uv orientation. This helps massively when working with generic materials (like detail normal maps or gradients).
By the way, I checked your blog and loved your sketches!
hah, yes, thats exactly what i was thinking, too!
wouldnt havethought that there is actually a discussion going on right here, why doesnt anybody invite me to the party? i had the first pages open for a long time over and over again and thought the last pages would only be the casual "+1 *yay" comments >.>
i underestimated you polycount... i'm sry
ontopic:
just now as i see the texture once again, i may nitpick a little, too
i would recommend to copy the whole image and blur it.
Then put it beneath the still sharp original.
This way you have a gradient benath your diffuse, blending in with the alpha map. thats at least what i learned...
the benefit is that you have no bleeding pixels, or at least lesser noticeeable ones.
Thats funny, can you believe the same happened to me?
But isn't it so that each draw call only renders a bunch of connected/stripped triangles? And that thus each triangle island, including those from smoothing group/mesh splits, is a new draw call?
would love to see some more detail in the chateau's steps and i think its missing a touch of bedded in-ness... possibly some alpha decals around the arches and windows to make them sit better would help it to look a touch more solid