JMYoung, you should keep at the komodo guy. It's a pretty strong design already.
This past week has been crazy-stressful, but the good news is that I ought to have more time to work on this now.
I've finally nailed down more or less how I'd like this thing to look, though proportions and smaller details are subject to change. I'd been looking at too many pictures of Mad Max and Fallout and not enough Salesman Pete and Creature Box.
Also: Almost February! Just over a month left and not much to show for it, so let's pick up the pace and get shit done!
JMYoung, you should keep at the komodo guy. It's a pretty strong design already.
Glad you agree, since that's the one I'm moving forward with.
Swizzle, I'm digging the new concept, although I also dug the original one. They've got 2 completely different feels, and both work well, so it's really just personal preference. The original dude looked like a total badass with more of a fallout-ish feel, and the new one has a much lighter feel that fits well with the colors you're shooting for.
I did really like the overall shapes of the original's arms and legs, though.
Here's where I was at a couple days ago. I've got some feedback from friends(as well as feedback from you guys), and a few more ideas to work in but I'm happy with the direction it's going. I'm going to refine the armor more and finalize what amount of tech it will include, probably add some more asymmetry, refine the organic bits and add in loose skin to sell the komodo thing, and concept out his shock baton. I will also play around with adding more accessories, though I don't want to bog down the silhouette at this point.
Using fallout as inspiration, he was a security guard assigned to a vault where the animal-human hybrid testing occurs. Being that most vaults turn to shit at some point, he gets caught in the middle(either gas is released, or the crazy scientist starts testing on non-subjects) and gains some animal dna.
What do his clawhands look like from the side? Is it just one gigantic finger looking thing?
It sort of gets more claw-like as it goes towards the arm. I'll post a side shot when next I update.
Concerning your Komodo: I could tell you had Fallout in mind just by having a glance at the image. I can't judge for you if that's too obvious, but I thought I'd mention it.
Secondly, I'm not a big fan of the spikes. There are plenty of spiky lizards, but Komodo dragons aren't among them. I think that's a bit misleading. Maybe patches of crude lamellar or scale armour, to evoke the image of lizard scales instead?
Oh, and I'd make the proportions more Komodo-esque. Here's a quick example:
Zwebbie:
I'm actually considering putting some sort of scuba-looking gear on him, maybe with a glass water tank instead of a bed roll. I like the idea of a mollusk man wearing a wifebeater, though I'm not dead-set on the shorts.
Anyway. While I like the head sculpt I did, I'm not exactly thrilled with how it might fit with the rest of the character, so here are a few doodles to figure out a new direction that will fit his proportions and such a little better. I like both the guy with the collar and the derpy one.
Zwebbie:
I'm actually considering putting some sort of scuba-looking gear on him, maybe with a glass water tank instead of a bed roll.
Heh, I was thinking of giving my guy a water tank on his back connected to a shower head above his head, so that he can constantly keep himself wet. (But since I'll use Marmoset, and Marmoset and alpha aren't the best of friends, I don't quite see that working out.) Maybe it's just me, but I think adding scuba elements, or an entire diving suit, if you will, would work better than any generic post-apoc outfit.
I was thinking about using Marmoset as well, but I really want the ability to combine cubemaps and specular. Unless I'm mistaken, Marmoset only supports specular. I'll probably end up importing the final product into either Source or UDK.
Awesome Zwebbie! I'll definitely change up the proportions as I like the lengthening that you added. I was stuck in some sort of realism mentality and only slightly pushed the length. Thanks for knocking sense into me.
I'm going to make those adjustments and also add some personalization to him. Will post up when I get that finished.
Swizzle, I like 1 and 3. I think the elongated head works well with the other proportions and shapes you have going. Derpstein looks like he's some fat lookin' battletoad. 3 looks very sophisticated but he needs a tentacle stache.
I was actually going to keep going with that exact one, JMYoung, but I decided to have a crack at a quick mockup of the derpguy just in the off chance I could make it work. I think by adding a head sac and some flippers, it looks less like a toad and more like an octopus.
I'm going to do a quick high-poly texture mockup in Mudbox after giving him a bit more body to see if I like the direction it's going in. If I like it, I'll keep it. If no, then I'm going with the tentacle 'stache.
Looks interesting Swizzle, but personally I think that the mouth is really hard to read. I feel like there's gotta be something done to that mouth, maybe a lower lip thats a bit bigger? The flippers seem a little off at the moment too, kinda feel like they need something to make them look a little more flippery. But you know what your doing so you can sort of forget what I just said.
I liked the first octopussy head more, still love the colors/textures!
Really cool character design; I like the simple playful shapes. To add to Shadownami's comment, I find my eye drawn so heavily to the blue/purple area due to the colour contrast and patterning that it's hard to focus on the face at all. Seeing his backside definitely settles my eyes more. The face is really funny (good funny ) to look at, so it's kind of a shame that attention is being drawn away.
I do quite like the character design you've got going on there - it has loads of personality, but he's not quite octopussy enough for mine. I think I'd probably make his cranium quite a bit larger and bulgier. It's a pretty iconic feature afterall.
I always liked the designs of the octopi in Oktapodi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkjNfFaYl4M
They're obviously a much more realistic interpretation than what you're going for here, but there might be something you can draw from them.
I think you guys are definitely right about the shape of his head, especially given the color scheme I want to use. I'll try out a couple of other versions with more octopussy head shapes and see where it takes me.
Jackablade:
Thanks for posting that; for some reason or another I'd completely forgotten about it. They do have some really good shapes going on, so I'll see what I can do to incorporate more of them in the final design.
I'm silently watching this progress and will continue to do so but have to say this.
Swizzle, those colours are absolutely beautiful - can't wait to see you pull the whole thing together
Alright, I think I've finalized the head design. It has a bit of a mix of features from all the other designs, or at least the features I liked. I also took a few design cues from Oktopodi because, well, those are some awesome little octopus dudes.
Now that I've finally got the head locked in, the rest should be a bit easier. I know what kind of body type I'm going to use and I know what kind of details and accessories I want.
Now, I'm going to scuttle off to Modo and get to work. I ought to have more to show before the weekend's up.
I liked the very first head you made the best. It had the most character in my opinion and the tentacles were nice. This one is better than the last one though.
I actually like it as well, but I just don't think it works well for what I'd like to do with this guy. I may reuse it later on as a head for another, similar character with a different body type, though.
I've really got to get back to work on my octopus dude. School (and finishing up portfolio crap so I can apply someplace close!) has been eating up inordinate amounts of time lately.
I'll be coming back to it once I'm done with the sackboy comp. on ga. Hope everyone continues working on theirs even if they can't get them done by the original date.
Long story short: Sometimes a relationship is just unhealthy for both partners. Sometimes you try to mend it with a scuffle, sometimes you have to realise it's not going to work out.
Increasingly, my criticism on pieces would be "that's very impressive - but also ugly". The science fiction corridor is the worst of it. Lots of detail, masterfully crafted, but there isn't a single one that isn't offensive to the senses. Game art cares not, though, it's all about showing skill, not taste. Have a look at the Dominance War as well, any version of it. Is there any winner that doesn't have detail for the sake of showing off skill? It's all very ugly, lacking harmony. I wouldn't want a picture of a post apocalyptic mutant or space marine in my living room. You know the quote "It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove."? Game art barely knows it.
So with almost every thread I'd open, I'd have the urge to yell that, for the love of yourself, you can make more than the millionth elf, the umpteenth space marine, another AK-47 or the latest in a long line of mutants. There are endless versions of beauty, and you can only make slim girls, muscly men, or post apocalyptic monstrosities. For centuries, there have been masters who could summon emotion by one of two strokes of paint and you don't need to design things in such a way that you can add as many fancy polygons as you can. And that there's more to life than violence and killing simulators!
But you wouldn't appreciate it. I know you, Polycount, you're happy the way you are, and that's fine.
So it's best I don't say anything.
wow.. I guess i would understand if you didn't like Game Art. It is a matter of taste and noone can force you to like it. But there is more than Elfs, Space Marines, AK-47s and Mutants. I would like to remind you that most of the people here make things they like in order to practice their skills and learn more and more. Other People showcase their skills by creating amazing models and enviroments. If you don't like what they do, then fine again, it is in YOUR hand to do something ELSE. Have you seen some of the work here? Some are about amazing enviroments, interessting characters that fit to the story or location and what not.. Have you seen some of the drawings made here? Some literally explode with emotions! It doesn't have to have a bunch of splats of colour on the canvas in order for it to be called Art.
Anyway, your call. Whatever. BUT:
Do you really think that we can be decreased to "Killing Simulator and Violence" fans? Really? What are you, a republican Congressman? Seriously?
People aren't making game art so it can hang in your living room, or in some art museum. No, people make game art for mainly two reasons, one: they're working on a game, two: they want to be working in the industry. Likewise, the majority of people playing games don't want to just be engaged in some sort of artistic experience, no, chances are they want to run around as a space-marine shooting mutants with their AK-47. And so, the people who make those things do so because they want to show that they can do what people actually are doing in the industry.
As for models with unecessary details put in only to show off skill - again, chances are these people actually want jobs. So they create characters and such in an attempt to show their skill, to get hired. Sure, maybe it would make for a better art piece if they didn't add superfluous detail, however the more skills and techniques they can show in any piece of work, the easier it will be for someone to see that they possess those skills.
Zwebbie, you helped me in this thread, so I'd like to see you stick around and give input. There's nothing wrong with sharing your opinion even if it's "I don't like the design or subject matter" in a lot of cases. There's most likely people that share your sentiment regarding detail for the sake of detail.
Give your input, make game art the way you want to, and relax.
Do you really think that we can be decreased to "Killing Simulator and Violence" fans?
Far too often, yes. Is the main character competition not a Dominance War? I've seen more soldiers on Polycount than I have in real life; now think of another profession for which that holds true. I can't quite think of any. Can you look at last week's recap and tell me this community will help me make beautiful things?
People aren't making game art so it can hang in your living room, or in some art museum.
Couldn't agree more with your post! The thing is, though, that I'm doing this as a hobby .
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The above posts (with the exception of JMYoung's) explain my point better than I could. It's obvious that nobody wants me to spout my views over the place and while I like such a discussion once in a while, I think it's better to leave than to have it after every post I'd make.
zwebbie, just because you like "beautiful" things doens't mean you have to stop posting hear or shit on everyone else because of what theyt like, and lots of game artists make these kinds of things becuase theyre fun for THEM to make and exxagerate, maybe not for you.
Zwebbie, I completely understand where you're coming from and, to a large extent, I fully agree. There isn't a single game artist on my list of actual favorite artists and you've basically outlined why.
Unfortunately, I don't actually think there's anything that can be done about it. One of the main problems with games in general is that they simply aren't fine art. They're popcorn culture designed to be consumed, not high art designed to be great and worthy of examination. There hasn't been an actual masterpiece of gaming or game art created yet, I don't think, no matter what the people who play Half-Life or who browse Zbrush Central will tell you. Basically, they're cave paintings using pop culture; they still need a lot of refinement before they'll be considered great art.
So. Respect, yo. Good luck on your future endeavors.
Reminds me: I was a the Legion of Honor the other day looking through the Rodin room.. and I said to my ex, "Ya know, if I came here and replicated any one of these sculptures *perfectly* in zbrush, then posted it for critique, I'd hear "Hey thats a good start""
So...uh..on a lighter note, my home PC is back and kickin' out art. So you bitches look out because I'm back in this shit! :poly142:
Zwebbie:
#1: Sorry to see you go! You're talented.
#2: I'd say go ahead and keep posting your fine art here on PC. There are those here who appreciate it and will comment or just enjoy. Those who dont can be ignored or they just wont comment. It seems a win-win to me.
Reminds me: I was a the Legion of Honor the other day looking through the Rodin room.. and I said to my ex, "Ya know, if I came here and replicated any one of these sculptures *perfectly* in zbrush, then posted it for critique, I'd hear "Hey thats a good start""
Take care zwebb.
Have you checked out the Rodin section of the museum at Stanford? Amazing stuff there. They have the Doors of Hell standing outside. They're crazy-awesome.
Well, Although I can agree with zwebbie in alot of places, quite a few of my favorite artisits that I have discovered recently were digital artists. Not all of them game artists, no, but I know at least one of them is.
Sad to see a good artist leaving here, but if critiquing aspects and cliches being too overbearing 'n such are a bit tough for you, then do as you must. You'll be missed.
completely agree with what you say zwebbie, just keep in mind that if you TRULY believe that game art should be more than what it is today then stand up for what you feel and start making art that you want to make. no one is forcing you to paint an ogre, or model an ak47, in fact there is no outline at all for creating game art. the fact is that everyone who does art such as this, for the most part, are doing it for a job, which is why they choose the subject matter they do. you cant lump everyone here into a category like that as id like to think some others out there aim to try and change the industry from what it is into something amazing. just look at thatgamecompany and tell me their games aren't art...
basically im just trying to say that you are always free to make your own art, your own way, with your own amount of detail or style. polycount may think differently and try and mold you into something that THEY see as a game designer, but you have the freedom to disagree and present your thoughts openly. sometimes i feel the reason artwork on forums starts to look "cookie-cutter" is because of the pressure from core members to do things the 'right way', but honestly there is no 'right way' to art, whether its game art or not.
you were a great member and provided so much to this community, im sure everyone is sad to hear you go. i hope the best for you mate :thumbup:
Replies
This past week has been crazy-stressful, but the good news is that I ought to have more time to work on this now.
I've finally nailed down more or less how I'd like this thing to look, though proportions and smaller details are subject to change. I'd been looking at too many pictures of Mad Max and Fallout and not enough Salesman Pete and Creature Box.
Also: Almost February! Just over a month left and not much to show for it, so let's pick up the pace and get shit done!
Glad you agree, since that's the one I'm moving forward with.
Swizzle, I'm digging the new concept, although I also dug the original one. They've got 2 completely different feels, and both work well, so it's really just personal preference. The original dude looked like a total badass with more of a fallout-ish feel, and the new one has a much lighter feel that fits well with the colors you're shooting for.
I did really like the overall shapes of the original's arms and legs, though.
Here's where I was at a couple days ago. I've got some feedback from friends(as well as feedback from you guys), and a few more ideas to work in but I'm happy with the direction it's going. I'm going to refine the armor more and finalize what amount of tech it will include, probably add some more asymmetry, refine the organic bits and add in loose skin to sell the komodo thing, and concept out his shock baton. I will also play around with adding more accessories, though I don't want to bog down the silhouette at this point.
Using fallout as inspiration, he was a security guard assigned to a vault where the animal-human hybrid testing occurs. Being that most vaults turn to shit at some point, he gets caught in the middle(either gas is released, or the crazy scientist starts testing on non-subjects) and gains some animal dna.
It sort of gets more claw-like as it goes towards the arm. I'll post a side shot when next I update.
Concerning your Komodo: I could tell you had Fallout in mind just by having a glance at the image. I can't judge for you if that's too obvious, but I thought I'd mention it.
Secondly, I'm not a big fan of the spikes. There are plenty of spiky lizards, but Komodo dragons aren't among them. I think that's a bit misleading. Maybe patches of crude lamellar or scale armour, to evoke the image of lizard scales instead?
Oh, and I'd make the proportions more Komodo-esque. Here's a quick example:
I'm actually considering putting some sort of scuba-looking gear on him, maybe with a glass water tank instead of a bed roll. I like the idea of a mollusk man wearing a wifebeater, though I'm not dead-set on the shorts.
Anyway. While I like the head sculpt I did, I'm not exactly thrilled with how it might fit with the rest of the character, so here are a few doodles to figure out a new direction that will fit his proportions and such a little better. I like both the guy with the collar and the derpy one.
I'm going to make those adjustments and also add some personalization to him. Will post up when I get that finished.
Swizzle, I like 1 and 3. I think the elongated head works well with the other proportions and shapes you have going. Derpstein looks like he's some fat lookin' battletoad. 3 looks very sophisticated but he needs a tentacle stache.
I'm going to do a quick high-poly texture mockup in Mudbox after giving him a bit more body to see if I like the direction it's going in. If I like it, I'll keep it. If no, then I'm going with the tentacle 'stache.
I liked the first octopussy head more, still love the colors/textures!
Really cool character design; I like the simple playful shapes. To add to Shadownami's comment, I find my eye drawn so heavily to the blue/purple area due to the colour contrast and patterning that it's hard to focus on the face at all. Seeing his backside definitely settles my eyes more. The face is really funny (good funny
I always liked the designs of the octopi in Oktapodi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkjNfFaYl4M
They're obviously a much more realistic interpretation than what you're going for here, but there might be something you can draw from them.
anyways here's a doodle from me
Jackablade:
Thanks for posting that; for some reason or another I'd completely forgotten about it. They do have some really good shapes going on, so I'll see what I can do to incorporate more of them in the final design.
Swizzle, those colours are absolutely beautiful - can't wait to see you pull the whole thing together
Now that I've finally got the head locked in, the rest should be a bit easier. I know what kind of body type I'm going to use and I know what kind of details and accessories I want.
Now, I'm going to scuttle off to Modo and get to work. I ought to have more to show before the weekend's up.
Bad Scudz! Down!
I like the new head and will be curious to see where you take it, and why the original won't work.
Not sure if I'll actually finish this one, I've purposely been abstaining from Polycount lately.
I've really got to get back to work on my octopus dude. School (and finishing up portfolio crap so I can apply someplace close!) has been eating up inordinate amounts of time lately.
God, school's been crazy this semester.
Yes why
I'm still workin on mah badger
i third this question, why did zwebbie leave?
Increasingly, my criticism on pieces would be "that's very impressive - but also ugly". The science fiction corridor is the worst of it. Lots of detail, masterfully crafted, but there isn't a single one that isn't offensive to the senses. Game art cares not, though, it's all about showing skill, not taste. Have a look at the Dominance War as well, any version of it. Is there any winner that doesn't have detail for the sake of showing off skill? It's all very ugly, lacking harmony. I wouldn't want a picture of a post apocalyptic mutant or space marine in my living room. You know the quote "It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove."? Game art barely knows it.
So with almost every thread I'd open, I'd have the urge to yell that, for the love of yourself, you can make more than the millionth elf, the umpteenth space marine, another AK-47 or the latest in a long line of mutants. There are endless versions of beauty, and you can only make slim girls, muscly men, or post apocalyptic monstrosities. For centuries, there have been masters who could summon emotion by one of two strokes of paint and you don't need to design things in such a way that you can add as many fancy polygons as you can. And that there's more to life than violence and killing simulators!
But you wouldn't appreciate it. I know you, Polycount, you're happy the way you are, and that's fine.
So it's best I don't say anything.
Anyway, your call. Whatever. BUT:
Do you really think that we can be decreased to "Killing Simulator and Violence" fans? Really? What are you, a republican Congressman? Seriously?
People aren't making game art so it can hang in your living room, or in some art museum. No, people make game art for mainly two reasons, one: they're working on a game, two: they want to be working in the industry. Likewise, the majority of people playing games don't want to just be engaged in some sort of artistic experience, no, chances are they want to run around as a space-marine shooting mutants with their AK-47. And so, the people who make those things do so because they want to show that they can do what people actually are doing in the industry.
As for models with unecessary details put in only to show off skill - again, chances are these people actually want jobs. So they create characters and such in an attempt to show their skill, to get hired. Sure, maybe it would make for a better art piece if they didn't add superfluous detail, however the more skills and techniques they can show in any piece of work, the easier it will be for someone to see that they possess those skills.
@Thread
Nooo! I want to see everyone's models finished, this had been interesting.
Zwebbie, you helped me in this thread, so I'd like to see you stick around and give input. There's nothing wrong with sharing your opinion even if it's "I don't like the design or subject matter" in a lot of cases. There's most likely people that share your sentiment regarding detail for the sake of detail.
Give your input, make game art the way you want to, and relax.
Yeah, it's rather bad. I'd like to close this chapter before it gets worse.
Couldn't agree more with your post! The thing is, though, that I'm doing this as a hobby
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The above posts (with the exception of JMYoung's) explain my point better than I could. It's obvious that nobody wants me to spout my views over the place and while I like such a discussion once in a while, I think it's better to leave than to have it after every post I'd make.
was nice to have you around
Unfortunately, I don't actually think there's anything that can be done about it. One of the main problems with games in general is that they simply aren't fine art. They're popcorn culture designed to be consumed, not high art designed to be great and worthy of examination. There hasn't been an actual masterpiece of gaming or game art created yet, I don't think, no matter what the people who play Half-Life or who browse Zbrush Central will tell you. Basically, they're cave paintings using pop culture; they still need a lot of refinement before they'll be considered great art.
So. Respect, yo. Good luck on your future endeavors.
Take care zwebb.
Zwebbie:
#1: Sorry to see you go! You're talented.
#2: I'd say go ahead and keep posting your fine art here on PC. There are those here who appreciate it and will comment or just enjoy. Those who dont can be ignored or they just wont comment. It seems a win-win to me.
Have you checked out the Rodin section of the museum at Stanford? Amazing stuff there. They have the Doors of Hell standing outside. They're crazy-awesome.
Sad to see a good artist leaving here, but if critiquing aspects and cliches being too overbearing 'n such are a bit tough for you, then do as you must. You'll be missed.
basically im just trying to say that you are always free to make your own art, your own way, with your own amount of detail or style. polycount may think differently and try and mold you into something that THEY see as a game designer, but you have the freedom to disagree and present your thoughts openly. sometimes i feel the reason artwork on forums starts to look "cookie-cutter" is because of the pressure from core members to do things the 'right way', but honestly there is no 'right way' to art, whether its game art or not.
you were a great member and provided so much to this community, im sure everyone is sad to hear you go. i hope the best for you mate :thumbup:
/rant