alt+select to select loops, x->edgeloop to delete it.
the ALT key combined with selection functions the same way no matter what selection mode you are in, and you can even use it to select loops and edges in the UV editor.
Awesome tip, thanks!
Obviously I'm no Blender pro, I appreciate the info. :thumbup:
I'm all for open source programs but I think they should take the proven designs of other popular software and build upon that instead of being different just because they can.
Some of it is actually pretty clever if you completely disregard that people are accustomed to other methods. For example, most people dislike RMB select, but having a button dedicated to selection isn't that odd of an idea. LMB doesn't make a box, but places the cursor, which has neat stuff that other software doesn't do as easily. And with this method of box selection, you can use B + LMB drag for box selection and B + RMB drag for box deselection (and double B for selection paint, as Eld mentioned). (Some choices are indeed rather dumb or inconsistent, though, I'll admit).
It has been part of the Blender mentality for a long time - Ton always says that Blender is for Blender users, and that you can't expect to play a piano from the get-go either. And if you take the time to learn its unique way of doing things, switching between Blender and the other software isn't that difficult, but it does demand that you put in that bit of effort.
...(Some choices are indeed rather dumb or inconsistent, though, I'll admit).
It has been part of the Blender mentality for a long time - Ton always says that Blender is for Blender users, and that you can't expect to play a piano from the get-go either. And if you take the time to learn its unique way of doing things, switching between Blender and the other software isn't that difficult, but it does demand that you put in that bit of effort.
Exactly, some stuff is still dumb, but what it does good, it does fast.
I think it's based around the hot-key mentality that's built into it, and yes, the 3d cursor is awesome in so many ways.
They've made some improvements recently that are pretty promising. Focusing on the UI and getting the customization aspects down are huge for getting people into using the program more often. I'm a Max guy, and a program like Maya makes a lot of sense to me. Generally the way things are laid out have some structure to them but a lot of things I didn't like, so I patched those up with hotkeys. I'll have to try the same with blender.
The only worry I have with Blender right now is that the modeling tools are a little bit clunky now. I get that it does just about anything that these other programs do, but it's always been a little bit slow to work with and a pain all the way. If they used Silo as a reference for modeling and really nailed that aspect down, then they'd really have a solid package to build stuff like sculpting off of.
I have been playing around with 2.5 a little more recently and its pretty nice so far
As Arcanox said, the modelling tools are a little clunky but i expect some huge improvements once BMesh is done.
Personally i think that is one area that should be worked on more, by multiple devs as the current project seems to be perhaps a bit too much for a single person to handle. (but i can also understand that it is hard to work with another persons code)
Until it is finished people cant make any changes to the modelling tools without inevitably having to recode everything later.
IMHO, modelling tools are the core aspect of any 3d package and having them hanging in them hanging in limbo like this is a pain and stalls the usefulness of any application, but hopefully something more solid will be happening soon
I have started to learn python so that i may add some tools myself and once i have a better grip on it i would be happy to take suggestions as to what people think is missing.
My first 2 scripts are HERE if anyone want to take a look
very true, one of the things I've always avoided quite much in blender is cutting and moving around stuff in an already unwrapped mesh, since while the modelling tools are fast, they have almost zero retaining of uv's and such.
Couldn't meshes...start out as editable polies, while having the tools of editable poly and editable mesh within the same interface? Why do I have to do something to a primitive before I begin editing it?
Primitives in max have some great quick parameters, adding sides to a cylinder or a cap ring is a one click step on a primitive. Adjusting the slope on a oil tank or a capsule are super quick ways to get a non-standard cylinder shape much faster than trying to poly model a cylinder into those shapes. It also helps when blocking things out to NOT convert it from a primitive shape so you can copy and change those parameters.
By having a separate modifier in which you do your poly modeling edits it means you can delete that modifier and it reverts back to that primitive without having to relay on undo or some kind of history.
Mind you I'm not up on how blender handles things the last time I tried it out was before the interface overhaul and it was ass backwards for me because I tried to interact with familiar object in a familiar way instead of just picking it up from scratch.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that they all have different ways of working and there will always be people on both sides complaining about how the other one doesn't work exactly how they expect. If it works the way you expect awesome, just be sure to go into other apps with the same open mind you did when you went into your first app.
Like Vig said, having the mesh be a "primitive" until converted gives you access to a number of preset options, and gives more flexibility if you want to change some base parameters quickly later on.
As far as people "crying about Blender being backwards", everyone has different needs and expectations of their software. If they feel Blender isn't meeting them then what incentive do they have to use it over other packages that do, other then perhaps monetary?
Looking great! Now it just needs auto-retopo like 3DCoat to get the most out of it (or does Blender have that already?)
One of the Google Summer of Code projects was to develop this feature. Apparently all Blender's GSoC projects reached their goal this year, but I haven't seen any auto-retopo in trunk (main version) yet. Mind you, no new features are being added to trunk since summer, until it's made stable. After that, I'd expect to see more progress on this.
Looking great! Now it just needs auto-retopo like 3DCoat to get the most out of it (or does Blender have that already?)
Not the auto I believe, but it does have the rest of the retopo tools, like plotting vertices on the surface of another model, alignments, drawing edges.
And on the "max is so weird";
The only thing I've wondered about Max is, what is the difference between editable poly and editable mesh?
Eld: Editable mesh is an old modifier, left in for compatibility reasons (and also when importing models from zbrush etc. because it's slightly faster. Much less tools, though)
Blender is looking better, but seriously... they have a great problem with perfomance.
In what way?
2.5 is vastly faster and more responsive than 2.4x due to the implementation of VBOs and vertex arrays for the viewport rendering.
Do you have VBO checked in the prefs.? (Prefs.> System> VBOs)
Have to agree with that, extremely highpoly meshes never go right in blender, I always handle that in max. But subdivision work is never an issue for me.
Don't feel like defending Blender is my job or objective, really. It's just that people seem to complain about relatively silly things. The last page is the first I've read of someone complaining about performance issues, which actually is significant, since Blender is pretty shitty at handling millions of polygons, especially in multiresolution mode.
My problem is because of the constant complaint about interface, Blender's moving less in the direction of having intuitive controls that are reminiscent of Max's graphite tools, but instead moving towards users interacting more with the interface. The changing context of every action made modifying things very fast
For example: inserting an edge loop then using the mouse wheel or number keys to modify how many you want.
locking transformations to an axis by pressing x y or z, OR locking things two two axis by pressing shift x y or z, OR using local, view, or normals by pressing the the previous shortcut twice.
the multiple key press or mouse options that come up when you're using the knife tool.
Ideally every function that isn't modifier based would have options that don't come up in a UI, but instead, logical shortcut keys, actions and gestures that make editing mesh information much quicker.
That's all I'm saying. Max has a ton of options, and is a good program, but it seems more often to feel like CAD software, than a program for creating what we would term "art."
Different strokes, however.
Im not sure if i understand your post correctly and if you are complaining about things like axis constraints and the knife tool or are happy about them, so disregard if this does not make sense. :P
The only thing that has changed with Blenders functionality is that the mesh tools are not yet implemented 100%, so thing like the knife tool and bevel are broken but you can still use MMB to increase/decrease edge loop numbers and constrain by axis by hitting xyz.
The interface has changed design, but there is no added need to increase the interfaces use as everything can still be done with hotkeys (as before).
Im not sure if i understand your post correctly and if you are complaining about things like axis constraints and the knife tool or are happy about them, so disregard if this does not make sense. :P
The only thing that has changed with Blenders functionality is that the mesh tools are not yet implemented 100%, so thing like the knife tool and bevel are broken but you can still use MMB to increase/decrease edge loop numbers and constrain by axis by hitting xyz.
The interface has changed design, but there is no added need to increase the interfaces use as everything can still be done with hotkeys (as before).
You haven't been using the 2.56 beta have you? The knife tool has the same functionality as it did in 2.49, but the extra options are accessed by pressing the F6 key for a context menu. Just hold K, draw your cut, and press F6 to edit the settings. 3DS max used to be my primary tool, but after getting my legs in the Blender 2.5 interface, I have to say I'm in love and I haven't touched Max since.
I have been using it a little for modelling but until all the mesh tools are fixed i cant move over fulltime.
As for the knife tool...you are correct! Its still just as bad as 2.49b
Though, i cant fathom why anyone would want to change the settings after they have made a cut.
lol
I have been using it a little for modelling but until all the mesh tools are fixed i cant move over fulltime.
As for the knife tool...you are correct! Its still just as bad as 2.49b
Though, i cant fathom why anyone would want to change the settings after they have made a cut.
lol
Multi cut, midpoints, exact cut, and so on are all in the context menu. Why wouldn't you?
Multi cut, midpoints, exact cut, and so on are all in the context menu. Why wouldn't you?
It just doesnt make sense to me to change these things after you have made the cuts...surly you would want to set mid point/multicut and exact cut before you do the actual cutting?
It just doesnt make sense to me to change these things after you have made the cuts...surly you would want to set mid point/multicut and exact cut before you do the actual cutting?
Well the initial cut is more like a starting point. It assumes that most of the time you just want a single cut that follows your line exactly and it's non-destructive. If you want to do more, it's available. It's doesn't harm anything, so what's wrong with it? It's just a tool anyway. Like any other tool, you can choose to use it or ignore it.
I just appreciate Blender's short-cut centric interface as apposed to 3DS Max's mouse centric design. The mouse is slow. My fingers on the keyboard are fast. As they work on 2.5, the software gets better and better. When Bmesh comes out, a lot of people are going to be happy. Don't get me wrong, if a particular package works for you then they did a good job on it, for you. Blender happens to be the tool I've been looking for.
I understand what you mean but in my experience the knife tool in Blender was always incomplete.
Even with the current system in 2.5, after the initial cut (exact) the second cut (also exact) never follows where you actually cut unless you reselect all the geo. and ends up as a topological mess
As you say, when BMesh is finally implemented it will hopefully resolve some of these issues
I just appreciate Blender's short-cut centric interface as apposed to 3DS Max's mouse centric design. The mouse is slow. My fingers on the keyboard are fast.
I understand what you mean but in my experience the knife tool in Blender was always incomplete.
Even with the current system in 2.5, after the initial cut (exact) the second cut (also exact) never follows where you actually cut unless you reselect all the geo. and ends up as a topological mess
As you say, when BMesh is finally implemented it will hopefully resolve some of these issues
On that I totally agree. Exact doesn't work the way you'd expect and they should fix that, hopefully Bmesh will do it.
What? 3DS is a short-cut nightmare and it's slow going from menu to menu trying to select the next function you want to use. Blender has all of the most used tools on easy to reach short cuts and the less used tools are only a short-cut and a click away. I can set the scale tool to scale on a locked axis, 2 axes, or by normals from 2-3 key presses each. Moving elements is the same, as is rotate. They have the handles, if you want them, but they aren't needed.
I dont want to be an arse here, but im pretty sure that Max has the ability to add custom mappable shortcuts.
So if they are not awesome out of the box they can be remapped to what ever you want.
I don't contend that Max has no re-mappable shortcuts, but I didn't like how things were set up and I don't like spending my time making a piece of software work the way I want it to when I could be creating. Blender does what I want it to do right out of the box. The shortcuts for basic translation tools are already set up for my convenience and they work well. Blender does better with their shortcuts than Max that is all I'm saying.
Max has out-of-the-box shortcuts for all the basic functions. They take no longer to learn than Blender's. Because you haven't taken that time is not the fault of the software.
Aaaaanyhoo, on a less contentious note, some VFX work here. Blender has certainly not been known for it's VFX stuff, but it seems like it's starting to come along a bit.
Blender had a really nice thing going with context keyboard shortcuts, but everyone whining about UI (kinda rightfully so, the UI is a tad bit odd) caused them to completely convert other functions in order to fit some standard and be "intuitive".
I think this is the very same reason I can't switch to zbrush from mudbox no matter how many times I've tried, everything is just so alien.
My argument against blender is this, just because you can paint a master piece in MS doesn't mean I'd want to. Blender just doesn't seem as artist friendly as the other apps out there, even if it is free.
Cool trailer though.
I've been trying to think my answer through before I'd answer this type of question. And all the times I do that I am stuck wondering; what would possibly happen to the artist(s) if there was no Autodesk or Adobe and all he/she is stuck with is traditional paper and pencil, or MS paint, and free 3d software such as blender.
It also makes me wonder why soo many douche bags worship bigger branded softwares and ask a smaller dev team to piss off. Smaller dev team who is working hard enough to produce a tool that is good enough for an artist that does the same thing and it is under GPL, means you can make money off of it and do not have to pay any royalties to anyone(possibly).
It is easy to whine about the tool and hard to participate and give ideas to improve it my good friends. I wouldnt say anything against it since the tool is legit and it is free. xD
I think this is the very same reason I can't switch to zbrush from mudbox no matter how many times I've tried, everything is just so alien.
Hey Eld, you can configure your Zbrush UI with ease. I'm customed to work with a ui similar to modo 302+mudbox, so in Zbrush i have a few custom UIs that covers all my needs and i don't need to acess the menu.
I personally don't care too much about UIs if they can be customized, what bothers me is the perfomance editing in viewports and the amount of polygons that an app can handle. I can't tolerate apps with poor perfomance. With Max i use quadro, but it can't be helped.
Well, another uninstall. I won't install any newer version for a long time. I'm bored.
I tried learning Blender a few months back but for some reason couldn't export an OBJ... I tried the new release and its working. Time to Learn blender I say. think they even add some type of mesh relax. Theres also a guy who is write a BlenderBoost type plugin too.
I tried learning Blender a few months back but for some reason couldn't export an OBJ... I tried the new release and its working. Time to Learn blender I say. think they even add some type of mesh relax. Theres also a guy who is write a BlenderBoost type plugin too.
Relax is available in the User Preferences/Addons, so are the importers/exportes.
I am using a pure blender setup right now, working on a game, modeling, uv, rigging, animation, exporting it all works fine. The interface is fast and it has the tools I need and works great most of the time.
Arkadius, in the user preferences, under add-ons, mesh category, there's a relax modifier. The problem I noticed is that there is no button to use it, so for now you have to access it by pressing spacebar and typing in "relax", which will find the Blender function for you.
Edit: Actually the add-on says itself where to find the function. In mesh edit mode, press W to bring up the specials menu and look at the bottom to find relax.
Replies
Awesome tip, thanks!
Obviously I'm no Blender pro, I appreciate the info. :thumbup:
It has been part of the Blender mentality for a long time - Ton always says that Blender is for Blender users, and that you can't expect to play a piano from the get-go either. And if you take the time to learn its unique way of doing things, switching between Blender and the other software isn't that difficult, but it does demand that you put in that bit of effort.
Exactly, some stuff is still dumb, but what it does good, it does fast.
I think it's based around the hot-key mentality that's built into it, and yes, the 3d cursor is awesome in so many ways.
The only worry I have with Blender right now is that the modeling tools are a little bit clunky now. I get that it does just about anything that these other programs do, but it's always been a little bit slow to work with and a pain all the way. If they used Silo as a reference for modeling and really nailed that aspect down, then they'd really have a solid package to build stuff like sculpting off of.
As Arcanox said, the modelling tools are a little clunky but i expect some huge improvements once BMesh is done.
Personally i think that is one area that should be worked on more, by multiple devs as the current project seems to be perhaps a bit too much for a single person to handle. (but i can also understand that it is hard to work with another persons code)
Until it is finished people cant make any changes to the modelling tools without inevitably having to recode everything later.
IMHO, modelling tools are the core aspect of any 3d package and having them hanging in them hanging in limbo like this is a pain and stalls the usefulness of any application, but hopefully something more solid will be happening soon
I have started to learn python so that i may add some tools myself and once i have a better grip on it i would be happy to take suggestions as to what people think is missing.
My first 2 scripts are HERE if anyone want to take a look
http://www.blender.org/download/get-256-beta/
By having a separate modifier in which you do your poly modeling edits it means you can delete that modifier and it reverts back to that primitive without having to relay on undo or some kind of history.
Mind you I'm not up on how blender handles things the last time I tried it out was before the interface overhaul and it was ass backwards for me because I tried to interact with familiar object in a familiar way instead of just picking it up from scratch.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that they all have different ways of working and there will always be people on both sides complaining about how the other one doesn't work exactly how they expect. If it works the way you expect awesome, just be sure to go into other apps with the same open mind you did when you went into your first app.
http://vimeo.com/18532854
Like Vig said, having the mesh be a "primitive" until converted gives you access to a number of preset options, and gives more flexibility if you want to change some base parameters quickly later on.
As far as people "crying about Blender being backwards", everyone has different needs and expectations of their software. If they feel Blender isn't meeting them then what incentive do they have to use it over other packages that do, other then perhaps monetary?
Looking great! Now it just needs auto-retopo like 3DCoat to get the most out of it (or does Blender have that already?)
One of the Google Summer of Code projects was to develop this feature. Apparently all Blender's GSoC projects reached their goal this year, but I haven't seen any auto-retopo in trunk (main version) yet. Mind you, no new features are being added to trunk since summer, until it's made stable. After that, I'd expect to see more progress on this.
Not the auto I believe, but it does have the rest of the retopo tools, like plotting vertices on the surface of another model, alignments, drawing edges.
And on the "max is so weird";
The only thing I've wondered about Max is, what is the difference between editable poly and editable mesh?
In what way?
2.5 is vastly faster and more responsive than 2.4x due to the implementation of VBOs and vertex arrays for the viewport rendering.
Do you have VBO checked in the prefs.? (Prefs.> System> VBOs)
I just wondered what sort of performance problems as it was pretty vague.
I know that 2.4x performance was bad but 2.5 is much better than it was.
It would be intersting to see how far behind other applications it is.
True, but it is a side effect of it being lightweight, which comes with other attributes.
Polycounts up to which you can work onscreen from my experience:
~ 4-5 mil subd stuff, scultping has some issues though fluent up to 1 mil
-> 10 mil gets really slow
15 mil not that funny
thats for beta 2.54
Im not sure if i understand your post correctly and if you are complaining about things like axis constraints and the knife tool or are happy about them, so disregard if this does not make sense. :P
The only thing that has changed with Blenders functionality is that the mesh tools are not yet implemented 100%, so thing like the knife tool and bevel are broken but you can still use MMB to increase/decrease edge loop numbers and constrain by axis by hitting xyz.
The interface has changed design, but there is no added need to increase the interfaces use as everything can still be done with hotkeys (as before).
Yea.
its a good thing that the blender shortcuts are still around
You haven't been using the 2.56 beta have you? The knife tool has the same functionality as it did in 2.49, but the extra options are accessed by pressing the F6 key for a context menu. Just hold K, draw your cut, and press F6 to edit the settings. 3DS max used to be my primary tool, but after getting my legs in the Blender 2.5 interface, I have to say I'm in love and I haven't touched Max since.
As for the knife tool...you are correct! Its still just as bad as 2.49b
Though, i cant fathom why anyone would want to change the settings after they have made a cut.
lol
Multi cut, midpoints, exact cut, and so on are all in the context menu. Why wouldn't you?
Well the initial cut is more like a starting point. It assumes that most of the time you just want a single cut that follows your line exactly and it's non-destructive. If you want to do more, it's available. It's doesn't harm anything, so what's wrong with it? It's just a tool anyway. Like any other tool, you can choose to use it or ignore it.
I just appreciate Blender's short-cut centric interface as apposed to 3DS Max's mouse centric design. The mouse is slow. My fingers on the keyboard are fast. As they work on 2.5, the software gets better and better. When Bmesh comes out, a lot of people are going to be happy. Don't get me wrong, if a particular package works for you then they did a good job on it, for you. Blender happens to be the tool I've been looking for.
Even with the current system in 2.5, after the initial cut (exact) the second cut (also exact) never follows where you actually cut unless you reselect all the geo. and ends up as a topological mess
As you say, when BMesh is finally implemented it will hopefully resolve some of these issues
Come on ...
On that I totally agree. Exact doesn't work the way you'd expect and they should fix that, hopefully Bmesh will do it.
What? 3DS is a short-cut nightmare and it's slow going from menu to menu trying to select the next function you want to use. Blender has all of the most used tools on easy to reach short cuts and the less used tools are only a short-cut and a click away. I can set the scale tool to scale on a locked axis, 2 axes, or by normals from 2-3 key presses each. Moving elements is the same, as is rotate. They have the handles, if you want them, but they aren't needed.
So if they are not awesome out of the box they can be remapped to what ever you want.
[ame="
[ame="
The foundation has also announced two new projects that will likely last for the next 5-6 years.
And before that one gets underway, another short (which I understand to be live action), project Mango:
I think this is the very same reason I can't switch to zbrush from mudbox no matter how many times I've tried, everything is just so alien.
It happens when I get defensive. I say stupid stuff. I'm glad I'm not a lawyer.
I've been trying to think my answer through before I'd answer this type of question. And all the times I do that I am stuck wondering; what would possibly happen to the artist(s) if there was no Autodesk or Adobe and all he/she is stuck with is traditional paper and pencil, or MS paint, and free 3d software such as blender.
It also makes me wonder why soo many douche bags worship bigger branded softwares and ask a smaller dev team to piss off. Smaller dev team who is working hard enough to produce a tool that is good enough for an artist that does the same thing and it is under GPL, means you can make money off of it and do not have to pay any royalties to anyone(possibly).
It is easy to whine about the tool and hard to participate and give ideas to improve it my good friends. I wouldnt say anything against it since the tool is legit and it is free. xD
//end_rage()
Hey Eld, you can configure your Zbrush UI with ease. I'm customed to work with a ui similar to modo 302+mudbox, so in Zbrush i have a few custom UIs that covers all my needs and i don't need to acess the menu.
I personally don't care too much about UIs if they can be customized, what bothers me is the perfomance editing in viewports and the amount of polygons that an app can handle. I can't tolerate apps with poor perfomance. With Max i use quadro, but it can't be helped.
Well, another uninstall. I won't install any newer version for a long time. I'm bored.
This should be VERY helpful for anyone using Blender as a part of a pipeline.
http://code.blender.org/index.php/2011/01/importers-and-exporters/
Relax is available in the User Preferences/Addons, so are the importers/exportes.
I am using a pure blender setup right now, working on a game, modeling, uv, rigging, animation, exporting it all works fine. The interface is fast and it has the tools I need and works great most of the time.
Edit: Actually the add-on says itself where to find the function. In mesh edit mode, press W to bring up the specials menu and look at the bottom to find relax.