Some more progress on the shotgun. Now has more exaggarated proportions to better fir the tf2 world and also has some extra detailing to give it some non-standard qualities you'd expect from a non-default weapon. I still wouldn't call it finished, though.
@Svdl Gosh that's amazing, I almost have nothing at all to critique. I mean, the crack looks a little odd, but it really doesn't matter that much to me. Oh and the chains will be jiggle-boned, yes?
vig: Thanks for the comments some stuff i totally agree with yah... and yah the lighting is a lil quake 1-ish thanks for noticing I'm an old school TF1 mapper. I did it cause I like the colors, i wasnt being paid do do it and it reminds me of the old days. I will definitely put some of these things on my list. Right now I'm also happy to have it finished to this point. its totally playable and fun as is and i'm gotta set it down for a few weeks/months and tinker with a new one i have been pondering.
As far as water traps or tunnels or anything of that sort, i'm very hesitant to consider them. Right now it is as you mentioned a meat grinder. the players are already well challenged to stay alive and focused in the environment. I felt adding more environmental hazards or even more connections was getting over kill. I dont want to make the place too random escentially.
As far as coming out of the doors spawns "backwards"... I did it to keep the LOS from looking out of the front of the buildings. I already have too much visibility going on and so I pointed the doors that way. I think the player figured it out pretty quickly. Especially during the set up time. During my playtests everyone wanders around behind the gates a bit and learn that the playfield is outside. I'll think about it some for the beta pass tho.
I do want to get some floating do not enter signs for the active tunnels, but i havent bothered yet. Players learn that there is nothing down that way but trains the hard way usually. I put a cow in the center tunnels, is that not enough?!!
As far as round water towers and what not, i was just getting to the point that i needed to stop putting extra faces in since you see so many of them all of the time. i did have round one originally, but it wasnt doing anything extra and to be honest they aren't meant to be major play areas, more of a LOS blocker to keep snipers or soldiers from completely pining a cart in those corners from the bridges.
r13, yea it reminded me of the Quake days, in a very good way, made me want to fire up some old maps and see if anyone was still playing. I miss having that buzz in the back of my skull that is a constant spidey sense tingling. The "watch your back" game play reminded me of playing Q3, damn I miss that game. The
Mostly all polish and detail stuff which really isn't the stage your at. I can do a few paint overs tomorrow, if I'm talking crazy (little drunk right now).
I had a blast playing it as is and most of my comments where aimed at getting it to fit in enough that it would be picked up officially.
As far as coming out of the doors spawns "backwards"... I did it to keep the LOS from looking out of the front of the buildings.
Yea that makes perfect sense. I did some of the same stuff in my map for the same reasons.
What I was thinking wouldn't really change the line of sight or VIS sorting the doors would still be backwards but just add some visual explanations of which way to go, a bricked or boarded up wall that is clearly visible from the door, a change to the lighting so it guides the player more to the front of the tunnel, maybe a god ray shaft of light from the opening.
If you set it up so people can't hang out inside the tunnel (you can hug the wall and not get hit) and snipe into the large area, that was mildly annoying for a round until he relaxed and was hit by a train... oh sweet justice that was awesome... still maybe snake the tunnel a little so its not perfectly straight?
Wow Svdl, I'm really loving that gun! Might I suggest making the carrying handle a little askew or something? It seems to... straight to fit the exaggerated style of TF2. That or make it jiggleboned to wiggle around a bit as you run.
I sort of agree about the top handle, but not about the clip. For use as just a skin, I would agree, but I think it would be awesome for the soldier to have a clip reloaded weapon in game.
Svdl, looking great in profile, but the first person handle looks out of place with the support going straight up-- there is an odd apparent intersection with the middle of the wood part. maybe try one of these:
all around kick ass gun though, i love the influences from the different firearms
Yeah, I totally agree with Crazy-G, and I also feel that maybe the chains and things are a little too much? But I'm not sure if anyone feels the same though.
Yeah, I totally agree with Crazy-G, and I also feel that maybe the chains and things are a little too much? But I'm not sure if anyone feels the same though.
Yeah, I would personally like to see how it would look without the chains.
I'm not saying the chains are a definite no-no, I just think they might be making the gun look too "busy".
Honestly I think maybe fixing the proportions to be more fitting might have been enough, so I'd like to see the change without the chains before he makes his final decision
Noors - That chainsaw is fantastic, I would be very surprised if that doesn't get in game. I dont personally think the mann co logo is a problem, it should be ubiquitous and I think it works nicely on the chainsaw.
Evil Knevil - I like that hat a lot now you got the colour sorted out.
Svdl, looking great in profile, but the first person handle looks out of place with the support going straight up-- there is an odd apparent intersection with the middle of the wood part. maybe try one of these:
Oooh, those really bring out the bad design in the one I had, thanks.
I changed it around a bit. Also altered the shape of the butt, making it look more rifle like instead of the whatever the hell it was previosly. Also removed the crack and the tube underneath the barrel to keep the thing from being too busy. On top of all that, I changed the holes above the front grip into round holes instead of boxy ones, I felt they fit the increasingly round shapes of the gun better.
Also, the chains and the handle are supposed to be jiggleboned eventually.
The chains and other details I'm very reluctant to let go, but here's a picture without them anyway.
Edit:
While I had the soldier in mind when making it, the gun being a shotgun it fits into everyone's hands, so here's a picture of the whole gang.
Noors, I would suggest a different logo, the mann.co has been done a zillion times. Looks great tho! and I love the yellow
Would people kindly stop telling lies like that? It's currently used on one hat and one weapon. It's not overused or "done zillion times".
Keep the Mann Co logo, it's underused.
Also; I'm really interested in modeling. Where could I find a good tutorial?
I think agree about removing both the handle and the chains, but I still think it looks good with the handle but no chains.
It might be pretty alright with the chains too though, although I do think it still in some way looks a bit "gritty".
Svdl: I'd go with as little detail as possible, if I were you. The handle is pretty neat because it makes you gun instantly recognisable, both in first and third person view, but the straps and chains ruin the whole thing. Look at the character models, they're perfectly clean - not an edge of detail that doesn't serve a purpose. Your gun has more extra detail than an entire character, and seeing them so close together, it doesn't mix.
(As a disclaimer, I think Valve itself is often very guilty of this too. The newer weapons often don't have the clean style of the original game.)
Svdl: I'd go with as little detail as possible, if I were you. The handle is pretty neat because it makes you gun instantly recognisable, both in first and third person view, but the straps and chains ruin the whole thing. Look at the character models, they're perfectly clean - not an edge of detail that doesn't serve a purpose. Your gun has more extra detail than an entire character, and seeing them so close together, it doesn't mix.
(As a disclaimer, I think Valve itself is often very guilty of this too. The newer weapons often don't have the clean style of the original game.)
Fair points, but it's just that without the extras, it's a bit too plain ordinary gun, no matter how different from the standard shotgun.
I can strip away the details from the back, perhaps it's less cluttery that way. Like that, I wouldn't say it's too far outside the realms of what's already in the game, like the axtinguisher or natasha, though maybe they're what you were referring to when talking about valve.
I understand that you made it with the soldier in mind, but it looks really good on the heavy, and for once, doesn't look to small.
Also, just curious, how does it reload?
I actually love a small shotgun on the heavy, it's like he's fighting with a toothpick. Anyway, I'll be handing it over to sparkwire for him to animate, and as an alternative, I'll just remove the clip so it'll work with the standard animations.
Svdl, looking great in profile, but the first person handle looks out of place with the support going straight up-- there is an odd apparent intersection with the middle of the wood part. maybe try one of these:
all around kick ass gun though, i love the influences from the different firearms
Oooh, those really bring out the bad design in the one I had, thanks.
I changed it around a bit. Also altered the shape of the butt, making it look more rifle like instead of the whatever the hell it was previosly. Also removed the crack and the tube underneath the barrel to keep the thing from being too busy. On top of all that, I changed the holes above the front grip into round holes instead of boxy ones, I felt they fit the increasingly round shapes of the gun better.
Also, the chains and the handle are supposed to be jiggleboned eventually.
The chains and other details I'm very reluctant to let go, but here's a picture without them anyway.
Edit:
While I had the soldier in mind when making it, the gun being a shotgun it fits into everyone's hands, so here's a picture of the whole gang.
Poor engy, gun's almost as big as he is.
i would just remove the front chains if you have to. or at least make em smaller. it just looks a tad cluttered with em. smaller chains would look great imho
Svdl, sweet model there, though I'm worried about the way the body of the gun is dominated entirely by horizontal and vertical lines, which make it feel more like a real gun. Changing the section above the fore-grip to vary by height (and maybe width) would probably have the biggest impact.
Also, if you go with the handle, you should probably raise it up a bit too, at the moment it doesn't look like any of the classes could carry it comfortably, given they all have exaggerated hands.
Me too, it looks properly heavy-weapons for the Heavy.
It would also be very nice with a secondary unlock for the Heavy that wasn't another version of the Sandwich.
Beautiful model. but I think the yellow is too bright, but as you said it's a WIP texture, so let's see how it looks when finished.
Other thing I suggest is make the handle a little deformed, as if someone hit it with bulets and hammers.
Maybe do a version with the blade clean and a version with the blade bloodied. Valve could set it up so that when you hit someone with it the blade turns from clean to bloody like they did with L4D weapons.
Noors, chainsaw is progressing nicely I agree about the color of the yellow - maybe use the yellow from the bullets on his belt?
The heart with the arrow through it sticks out to me - is it meant to be painted or scratched in? If painted I'd use a different color from the scratches (probably the same one as the belt); if scratched, I'd roughen it up a bit so its not as perfect
And I don't think you should put blood - I think the idea of a lot of these weapons are that they are everyday items that the characters picked up and repurposed... a bloody chainsaw isn't really an every day item and takes that away... I agree on the oil and also definitely some dirt in the part that directs debris downwards (I don't know the term)
Replies
the chains are a really nice added touch.
As far as water traps or tunnels or anything of that sort, i'm very hesitant to consider them. Right now it is as you mentioned a meat grinder. the players are already well challenged to stay alive and focused in the environment. I felt adding more environmental hazards or even more connections was getting over kill. I dont want to make the place too random escentially.
As far as coming out of the doors spawns "backwards"... I did it to keep the LOS from looking out of the front of the buildings. I already have too much visibility going on and so I pointed the doors that way. I think the player figured it out pretty quickly. Especially during the set up time. During my playtests everyone wanders around behind the gates a bit and learn that the playfield is outside. I'll think about it some for the beta pass tho.
I do want to get some floating do not enter signs for the active tunnels, but i havent bothered yet. Players learn that there is nothing down that way but trains the hard way usually.
As far as round water towers and what not, i was just getting to the point that i needed to stop putting extra faces in since you see so many of them all of the time. i did have round one originally, but it wasnt doing anything extra and to be honest they aren't meant to be major play areas, more of a LOS blocker to keep snipers or soldiers from completely pining a cart in those corners from the bridges.
cheers
Mostly all polish and detail stuff which really isn't the stage your at. I can do a few paint overs tomorrow, if I'm talking crazy (little drunk right now).
I had a blast playing it as is and most of my comments where aimed at getting it to fit in enough that it would be picked up officially.
Yea that makes perfect sense. I did some of the same stuff in my map for the same reasons.
What I was thinking wouldn't really change the line of sight or VIS sorting the doors would still be backwards but just add some visual explanations of which way to go, a bricked or boarded up wall that is clearly visible from the door, a change to the lighting so it guides the player more to the front of the tunnel, maybe a god ray shaft of light from the opening.
If you set it up so people can't hang out inside the tunnel (you can hug the wall and not get hit) and snipe into the large area, that was mildly annoying for a round until he relaxed and was hit by a train... oh sweet justice that was awesome... still maybe snake the tunnel a little so its not perfectly straight?
all around kick ass gun though, i love the influences from the different firearms
I'm not saying the chains are a definite no-no, I just think they might be making the gun look too "busy".
Honestly I think maybe fixing the proportions to be more fitting might have been enough, so I'd like to see the change without the chains before he makes his final decision
http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/File:Binksi_logging_sign.jpg
Here's a list of companies that already exist in TF2.
http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/List_of_companies
Evil Knevil - I like that hat a lot now you got the colour sorted out.
Oooh, those really bring out the bad design in the one I had, thanks.
I changed it around a bit. Also altered the shape of the butt, making it look more rifle like instead of the whatever the hell it was previosly. Also removed the crack and the tube underneath the barrel to keep the thing from being too busy. On top of all that, I changed the holes above the front grip into round holes instead of boxy ones, I felt they fit the increasingly round shapes of the gun better.
Also, the chains and the handle are supposed to be jiggleboned eventually.
The chains and other details I'm very reluctant to let go, but here's a picture without them anyway.
Edit:
While I had the soldier in mind when making it, the gun being a shotgun it fits into everyone's hands, so here's a picture of the whole gang.
Poor engy, gun's almost as big as he is.
Keep the Mann Co logo, it's underused.
Also; I'm really interested in modeling. Where could I find a good tutorial?
It might be pretty alright with the chains too though, although I do think it still in some way looks a bit "gritty".
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/List_of_companies
:thumbup:
(As a disclaimer, I think Valve itself is often very guilty of this too. The newer weapons often don't have the clean style of the original game.)
Model by Communist Cake and Textures by me.
I understand that you made it with the soldier in mind, but it looks really good on the heavy, and for once, doesn't look to small.
Also, just curious, how does it reload?
Fair points, but it's just that without the extras, it's a bit too plain ordinary gun, no matter how different from the standard shotgun.
I can strip away the details from the back, perhaps it's less cluttery that way. Like that, I wouldn't say it's too far outside the realms of what's already in the game, like the axtinguisher or natasha, though maybe they're what you were referring to when talking about valve.
I actually love a small shotgun on the heavy, it's like he's fighting with a toothpick. Anyway, I'll be handing it over to sparkwire for him to animate, and as an alternative, I'll just remove the clip so it'll work with the standard animations.
Agreed!
I like the Heavy with this weapon!
Also, if you go with the handle, you should probably raise it up a bit too, at the moment it doesn't look like any of the classes could carry it comfortably, given they all have exaggerated hands.
It would also be very nice with a secondary unlock for the Heavy that wasn't another version of the Sandwich.
Real nice use of the Binksi logo IMO.
Other thing I suggest is make the handle a little deformed, as if someone hit it with bulets and hammers.
oh, and BLOOD.
NO. DO NOT DO THIS.
Anyway, try making it team colored using the light orange/yellow colors.
Yea, oil stains would rock. I would also say some scratches, but given the broad brush approach, it might not play right.
I think the blood in the vita-saw is its nicest detail.
Any improvements I could make to the texture/normal map?
The heart with the arrow through it sticks out to me - is it meant to be painted or scratched in? If painted I'd use a different color from the scratches (probably the same one as the belt); if scratched, I'd roughen it up a bit so its not as perfect
And I don't think you should put blood - I think the idea of a lot of these weapons are that they are everyday items that the characters picked up and repurposed... a bloody chainsaw isn't really an every day item and takes that away... I agree on the oil and also definitely some dirt in the part that directs debris downwards (I don't know the term)
Looks nice! I've seen this kind of hat in the engineer but I personally think it looks better on the Pyro