If you want the style to be a different model, just compiled two different .mdl's and Valve will make the item switch between them.
At least, this has been my understanding for a while now. I don't see why you couldn't use submodels, either, if it's just a matter of a part of the model being replaceable. The ones I've looked at that are currently in-game use multiple models, though.
This post here leads me to believe that our zip files should be as in-game ready as possible. Meaning, I should not leave it up to Valve to make the styles work. I should somehow be able to specify within the qc file, I guess. Which are the mdl's and textures it should use for the different styles.
For anyone whose curious/interested i emailed Robin a day ago and got a response back from Valve (albeit not from Robin strangely) From some guy called Bay Rait, Asking about whether it is compulsory to use itemtest, And if we are able to change files in the zip:
Haha, Bay......
I met Bay up in their HQ, he's a cool guy, and he did the blog post about making that skull thing.
Also, new Grenade Launcher for Demo... Supposed to be a 4 size clip reload.
Its a tad futuristic, but I'm planning on making the texture look a certain way...
We are very much aware of the plagiarism in the workshop. We are looking into the best solutions for mitigating the problem. As you suggest, it will probably involve some way for the community to police itself. We're still discussing what the best thing to do is. But we are definitely aware of the problem.
Got that in an email from Valve.
Interesting, this reminds me of another issue, not exactly plagiarism. I just recently submited this.
Now, before I model anything I first make sure it has not been submitted before as it would make no sense to do it again. This time around however, I did check but I must have missed it.
As it turns out it has not been the first time that this idea has been submitted!
It is by no means a very original idea, it actually didn't surprise me to find out that others have come to this idea as well. So I wouldn't be sure how to handle such a case. What entry gets to stay? Would it be fair that the item that was last submitted would stay, because it had the best rating?
That being said, I think there needs to be a better way to find items. Tags perhaps, or more categories.
floating geometry..... IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING I WAS TAUGHT!!!!!! but... is that how the other hats are built... as different objects "combined" ('glued') together?...... so much to learn so little time
the bolts, led and sensor are separate objects btw.
so, what should I make seperate? The sentry, base, bolts Led and sensor are all seperate objects, I can cut the barrel off of the sentry and make that a seperate object.... but what else is there to make separate?
The Bad Trip A sticky launcher for Demoman, which launches laser trip-mines.
Proposed stats: + Bombs are detonated when laser path is crossed by an enemy. + Bombs are %30 more damaging. - Bombs cannot be detonated manually. - Only 6 bombs out at once.
So after reading what Bay said, I decided to make a template zip for those who don't use the itemtest wizard and prefer to make properly compiled files. The zip matches the itemtest folder structure as closely as possible. The included readme explains everything in depth. Comments to improve this are welcome.
The main (clipping) problem with the soldier is his damned collars. However, i like the concept you linked, and will see to it that i get a beard done in that style for comparision.
This post here leads me to believe that our zip files should be as in-game ready as possible. Meaning, I should not leave it up to Valve to make the styles work. I should somehow be able to specify within the qc file, I guess. Which are the mdl's and textures it should use for the different styles.
That's the thing, though... setting up "styles" can only be done on Valve's end. It's not something you can do in the .qc, it's done in the game's source code. The most we can do is put the various textures into their own skinfamilies, or compile models for each different style.
Just open up the tf2 models .gcf and look at some of the items currently in the game that use styles. The Splendid Screen, for example (called the persian_shield or something in the gcf), has 3 completely different .mdl's, one for each style. There's nothing "connecting" them in there, because that's in the tf2 source code.
On a different note, thank you Randomteddybear for the link to that SDK dx8 fix. It's cumbersome, but it's allowed me to properly test my Lederhosen model.
I'm still working on the texture, and might add some embroidered leaves or something to the pants. Valve seems to like to keep their tf2 characters' textures very simple, though, so I'm trying to emulate that.
And I wonder why no one is willing to tell the rest of us how they're getting their hats in the game. Several people, me included, have already asked how to properly use itemtest without the hats appearing in all the wrong places (despite using Valve's supplied models that are "in the right position").
Some tips on "the traditional way" would be great too, I found one tutorial through google but in the end the model didn't show up. Are there any other guides/tutorials for this?
Also, for doing it like that, does it really require such a huge load of half-broken programs of decompilers, compilers, converters and so on. Surely Valve has released the tools to do this the proper way?
Reposting this because no one seems to give a damn.
Something is obviously not right with the 3dsmax->itemtest method because even when I try to import an SMD then re-export it from 3dsmax into itemtest it shows up in the wrong place.
Reposting this because no one seems to give a damn.
Something is obviously not right with the 3dsmax->itemtest method because even when I try to import an SMD then re-export it from 3dsmax into itemtest it shows up in the wrong place.
The new itemtest thing they just added doesn't seem to work well for anyone, so it's probably best to ignore it until they fix/improve it. The "old way" basically involves writing your own .qc file and using a compiler to turn your .smd's into a .mdl. Refer to that wiki I linked since there's a bit to it.
New one for me, looks like I might need to go back and rezip. I just put the neccessary files into a zip and uploaded them. Not thinking they were still getting the qc, smd, obj, etc.. files
A friend said I should make it bigger, so I just did a quick scaling up of the top part and making it taller, I think I might be doing that by the time I re-submit.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2343
EDIT
Major fix... My normals were 'twisted' around the crown. And I was getting really crappy phong shading, basically opposite of rim lighting. Screwed with it for hours before I realize the normals must be screwed up.
How, I have no idea. Never had that happen before. They looked fine in Max, but in model viewer they were twisted. So I exported an obj, re-imported and then Max showed them twisted.
my attempt at a less crappy method of previewing >_>. texture is getting there and then im going to finish the goggles.
crits and comments greatly appreciated
For anyone whose curious/interested i emailed Robin a day ago and got a response back from Valve (albeit not from Robin strangely) From some guy called Bay Rait, Asking about whether it is compulsory to use itemtest, And if we are able to change files in the zip:
You might know some of the work he did at his previous studio.
So after reading what Bay said, I decided to make a template zip for those who don't use the itemtest wizard and prefer to make properly compiled files. The zip matches the itemtest folder structure as closely as possible. The included readme explains everything in depth. Comments to improve this are welcome.
However, you are saving the QC. in MODELSRC, but itemtest creates it on MODELS (where the MDL is located)
and in that folder (the one with the MDL) should I save there the PHY, directX.. and all the other files that are created alongside the MDL?
And another question, unrelated to your ZIP:
LODS!:
Itemtest QC creates one using the OBJ you choose, and then it spits a DMX. Can I create lods from SMDs? What should I write in the QC to add them? (I'm not at my computer now so I can't test it myself)
Arcaltarion, I decided to put the QCs in modelsrc because that's their proper default location (i.e. in the same folder as the SMDs - VDC Link) - since you can't compile MDLs, it's really useless on Valve's part to put them in models.
And yes, save everything else that the compiler generates with the MDL files (.VTX/.PHY/.VVD/.SW.VTX/etc.) into the MDL folder.
As for LODs, I have no idea how the DMX format works, and most people leave it alone. Typically, you will have multiple SMDs, one for the normal model, and then another for each decrease in polycount. So modelname.smd, modelname_lod1.smd, modelname_lod2.smd, etc.
To add them to a model, make sure you have all the necessary SMDs and then add something similar to this to the QC:
Where <threshold> is a number value, I'm not sure what kind of metric it is yet, so I just use Valve's itemtest QC for reference and use 6 (for the first LOD). VDC Link on LODs
Multiple LOD SMDs will still yield only one MDL - but they'll still be there; you can check that in HLMV by going to the "Model" tab and using the number roll-out below the "Auto LOD" checkbox to flip between the LOD models:
The most common reason is not being skinned to the bip_head bone. second reason is not being in the correct place/orientation when being skinned to bip_head.
edit:
Xth version of the beard, it doesn't look viking enough. Like the direction i'm going though.
The ratings system on the Workshop is kind of broken. Everything on the first page of top rated is constantly getting rated because most people don't ever go to the second page. The last item on the first page has more than 400 ratings. The first item on the second page has less than 200 ratings.
That, and the fact that good stuff that's recently submitted gets buried at the bottom of the pile where no one will even find it unless it's linked to elsewhere.
I'm thinking position in the "Top Rated" should be weighted by how much time an item has been around. An item around for 5 weeks with 500 good ratings will get a similar ranking to an item around for 10 minutes with 15 good ratings.
Just a thought
Well, there was a reply to someones e-mail at Spuf and they are looking into moderation issues. As far as ratings, yeah I don't know what you'd do there.
Obviously the first entries had a good lead. Some of them had thousands of votes before I had a day off to even submit (and before the spam started).
Not saying mine deserve thousands, but I think it got hit hard at first and now you have to wade through so much stuff.
Still, at the end of the day Valve will still be making the ultimate decisions.
Love those apples and don't worry about the silly votes. If I had a 1000 friends who I asked to vote for me, would that increase my chances? Doubtful.
Need feedback. I tried to make it unique with damage and more detail. I even came up with a story.
"The spy travelled to a distant land and was approached by a mysterious merchant who sold him an old blade made of famous steel known as Damascus. This legendary metal was said to have even cut through rock, however, age has been unkind to the weapon and there is apparent damage. The spy cleaned up the old, dusty weapon and named it...Cutting Edge."
@Habboi: The handle of the knife is ok, maybe you should have added some leather cover rather than a wood + bandage and the bottom could use an attachment, but it's ok. The problem here is the blade, the waves doesn't make it look good like that. You should probably try to enlighten and remove gradually the waves from the sharpened zone.
@ re.wind, I positioned and rotated the pivot point to 0 0 0 world position in max, but nothing changed. I have used the OBJ format to export the model, but should I use the SMD exporter instead?
Arcaltarion, I decided to put the QCs in modelsrc because that's their proper default location (i.e. in the same folder as the SMDs - VDC Link) - since you can't compile MDLs, it's really useless on Valve's part to put them in models.
And yes, save everything else that the compiler generates with the MDL files (.VTX/.PHY/.VVD/.SW.VTX/etc.) into the MDL folder.
As for LODs, I have no idea how the DMX format works, and most people leave it alone. Typically, you will have multiple SMDs, one for the normal model, and then another for each decrease in polycount. So modelname.smd, modelname_lod1.smd, modelname_lod2.smd, etc.
To add them to a model, make sure you have all the necessary SMDs and then add something similar to this to the QC:
Where <threshold> is a number value, I'm not sure what kind of metric it is yet, so I just use Valve's itemtest QC for reference and use 6 (for the first LOD). VDC Link on LODs
Multiple LOD SMDs will still yield only one MDL - but they'll still be there; you can check that in HLMV by going to the "Model" tab and using the number roll-out below the "Auto LOD" checkbox to flip between the LOD models:
Thanks to you I'm ready to submit the hat!
I have each style in its own separate ZIP with the correct workshop folder tree.
should I ZIP them together or as separate hats? because putting them toghether would change the folders.
how are you guys submitting your styles?
EDIT: WELL, did a last test in model in the ITEMTEST map and one of the heads is missing the texture.
The weird thing is that MODEL VIEWER finds it.
why is this happening?
The ratings system on the Workshop is kind of broken. Everything on the first page of top rated is constantly getting rated because most people don't ever go to the second page. The last item on the first page has more than 400 ratings. The first item on the second page has less than 200 ratings.
That, and the fact that good stuff that's recently submitted gets buried at the bottom of the pile where no one will even find it unless it's linked to elsewhere.
I'm thinking position in the "Top Rated" should be weighted by how much time an item has been around. An item around for 5 weeks with 500 good ratings will get a similar ranking to an item around for 10 minutes with 15 good ratings.
Just a thought
If they just defaulted it to "sort by submission date" it'd be a big improvement. The "highest rated" is kind of screwy. It seems to not be based simply on the amount of thumbs up ratings an item has. The number of ratings went way down when they cleaned out the spam recently to. The top items were well into the thousands previously.
Habboi - I like the Damascus steel. The only thing I'd change is to push the yellow to a more gold colour.
Evil Knievel - It's not looking much like hair. Take a look how the other hair models in the game are modelled. For something like that, it might be worth experimenting with the planes style that's used on the camera beard and the soldier beard.
Replies
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2144
...but removed my pistol:
Does anyone know what method Valve used to decide which items to remove?
This post here leads me to believe that our zip files should be as in-game ready as possible. Meaning, I should not leave it up to Valve to make the styles work. I should somehow be able to specify within the qc file, I guess. Which are the mdl's and textures it should use for the different styles.
Haha, Bay......
I met Bay up in their HQ, he's a cool guy, and he did the blog post about making that skull thing.
Also, new Grenade Launcher for Demo... Supposed to be a 4 size clip reload.
Its a tad futuristic, but I'm planning on making the texture look a certain way...
If I remove any more edges, some of my shapes will disappear......
and to be clear, 498 quads, 924 tris.
Interesting, this reminds me of another issue, not exactly plagiarism. I just recently submited this.
Now, before I model anything I first make sure it has not been submitted before as it would make no sense to do it again. This time around however, I did check but I must have missed it.
As it turns out it has not been the first time that this idea has been submitted!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=339
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1331
It is by no means a very original idea, it actually didn't surprise me to find out that others have come to this idea as well. So I wouldn't be sure how to handle such a case. What entry gets to stay? Would it be fair that the item that was last submitted would stay, because it had the best rating?
That being said, I think there needs to be a better way to find items. Tags perhaps, or more categories.
Try building these like floating geometry. Don't connect everything. Also, look at the real sentry gun for wireframe reference.
the bolts, led and sensor are separate objects btw.
A sticky launcher for Demoman, which launches laser trip-mines.
Proposed stats:
+ Bombs are detonated when laser path is crossed by an enemy.
+ Bombs are %30 more damaging.
- Bombs cannot be detonated manually.
- Only 6 bombs out at once.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2340
LINK
Maybe something like this would work better (and avoid clipping issues):
http://bishibooru.com/_images/ba208fb784090b88d9a92c499ce65e25/33907%20-%20armor%20axe%20beard%20braid%20hand_on_waist%20helmet%20long_hair%20original%20realistic%20red_hair%20solo%20weapon.jpg
Just open up the tf2 models .gcf and look at some of the items currently in the game that use styles. The Splendid Screen, for example (called the persian_shield or something in the gcf), has 3 completely different .mdl's, one for each style. There's nothing "connecting" them in there, because that's in the tf2 source code.
On a different note, thank you Randomteddybear for the link to that SDK dx8 fix. It's cumbersome, but it's allowed me to properly test my Lederhosen model.
I'm still working on the texture, and might add some embroidered leaves or something to the pants. Valve seems to like to keep their tf2 characters' textures very simple, though, so I'm trying to emulate that.
Reposting this because no one seems to give a damn.
Something is obviously not right with the 3dsmax->itemtest method because even when I try to import an SMD then re-export it from 3dsmax into itemtest it shows up in the wrong place.
The new itemtest thing they just added doesn't seem to work well for anyone, so it's probably best to ignore it until they fix/improve it. The "old way" basically involves writing your own .qc file and using a compiler to turn your .smd's into a .mdl. Refer to that wiki I linked since there's a bit to it.
A friend said I should make it bigger, so I just did a quick scaling up of the top part and making it taller, I think I might be doing that by the time I re-submit.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2343
EDIT
Major fix... My normals were 'twisted' around the crown. And I was getting really crappy phong shading, basically opposite of rim lighting. Screwed with it for hours before I realize the normals must be screwed up.
How, I have no idea. Never had that happen before. They looked fine in Max, but in model viewer they were twisted. So I exported an obj, re-imported and then Max showed them twisted.
Reset them, re-compiled, perfect. Arghhh!!!!!!!!!!
crits and comments greatly appreciated
EDIT: http://store.steampowered.com/news/6562/
However, you are saving the QC. in MODELSRC, but itemtest creates it on MODELS (where the MDL is located)
and in that folder (the one with the MDL) should I save there the PHY, directX.. and all the other files that are created alongside the MDL?
And another question, unrelated to your ZIP:
LODS!:
Itemtest QC creates one using the OBJ you choose, and then it spits a DMX. Can I create lods from SMDs? What should I write in the QC to add them? (I'm not at my computer now so I can't test it myself)
I don't remember if i posted this already. I will try to find the time to rework it and finish it
And yes, save everything else that the compiler generates with the MDL files (.VTX/.PHY/.VVD/.SW.VTX/etc.) into the MDL folder.
As for LODs, I have no idea how the DMX format works, and most people leave it alone. Typically, you will have multiple SMDs, one for the normal model, and then another for each decrease in polycount. So modelname.smd, modelname_lod1.smd, modelname_lod2.smd, etc.
To add them to a model, make sure you have all the necessary SMDs and then add something similar to this to the QC:
$lod <threshold> { replacemodel "modelname.smd" "modelname_lod1.smd" }Where <threshold> is a number value, I'm not sure what kind of metric it is yet, so I just use Valve's itemtest QC for reference and use 6 (for the first LOD). VDC Link on LODsMultiple LOD SMDs will still yield only one MDL - but they'll still be there; you can check that in HLMV by going to the "Model" tab and using the number roll-out below the "Auto LOD" checkbox to flip between the LOD models:
http://kotaku.com/5851572/some-of-team-fortress-2s-coolest-weapons-have-been-made-by-you/gallery/1
For the future of a *GDD student, and for some strange fascination of doing these kinds of things!
(*Game Design Development)
My apologies for the random thought.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2299
C&C wanted.
BEFORE:
And AFTER:
Thanks,
The apples came out perfect, love the work style addition.
edit:
Xth version of the beard, it doesn't look viking enough. Like the direction i'm going though.
That, and the fact that good stuff that's recently submitted gets buried at the bottom of the pile where no one will even find it unless it's linked to elsewhere.
I'm thinking position in the "Top Rated" should be weighted by how much time an item has been around. An item around for 5 weeks with 500 good ratings will get a similar ranking to an item around for 10 minutes with 15 good ratings.
Just a thought
Obviously the first entries had a good lead. Some of them had thousands of votes before I had a day off to even submit (and before the spam started).
Not saying mine deserve thousands, but I think it got hit hard at first and now you have to wade through so much stuff.
Still, at the end of the day Valve will still be making the ultimate decisions.
Need feedback. I tried to make it unique with damage and more detail. I even came up with a story.
"The spy travelled to a distant land and was approached by a mysterious merchant who sold him an old blade made of famous steel known as Damascus. This legendary metal was said to have even cut through rock, however, age has been unkind to the weapon and there is apparent damage. The spy cleaned up the old, dusty weapon and named it...Cutting Edge."
If not, yeah I'd try the old method. It's always worked fine for me. Haven't tried the new one yet myself.
Thanks to you I'm ready to submit the hat!
I have each style in its own separate ZIP with the correct workshop folder tree.
should I ZIP them together or as separate hats? because putting them toghether would change the folders.
how are you guys submitting your styles?
EDIT: WELL, did a last test in model in the ITEMTEST map and one of the heads is missing the texture.
The weird thing is that MODEL VIEWER finds it.
why is this happening?
If they just defaulted it to "sort by submission date" it'd be a big improvement. The "highest rated" is kind of screwy. It seems to not be based simply on the amount of thumbs up ratings an item has. The number of ratings went way down when they cleaned out the spam recently to. The top items were well into the thousands previously.
Habboi - I like the Damascus steel. The only thing I'd change is to push the yellow to a more gold colour.
Evil Knievel - It's not looking much like hair. Take a look how the other hair models in the game are modelled. For something like that, it might be worth experimenting with the planes style that's used on the camera beard and the soldier beard.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2455
Show me love !
Please visit and rate if you like it!:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2458