Intresting image dude, have in mind that you somehow have to create distance inside your image. Best way would be to have a forground, midground and background using value shifts. There should be more about that if you search on google (I don't find myself capable of explaining it yet), and it would really help getting depth in your image. Also, look abit closer on your characters right hand - it can be made alot better than it is now.
Do you actually do anything outside of what you post? I mean, for someone who seems intent on getting better you seem to waste a lot of time posting very little? I think you said somewhere that you post on 9 forums, why not make that one forum and update in batches so you can put more time into studying rather than updating the same images with subtle differences.
The women holding the shield is off to a nice start although shes looking a little dainty/fragile, perhaps widening her stance a bit and emphasising where shes putting most of her weight to give her a bit more presence.
Good luck completing those 8 works by 17th feb, you did 4 in 14 days on this page so step up the pace!
jack - yea I can't upload any pencil work I'm doing and I'm usually very selective with the digital work I post.
The frequency of updates helps me get more comments. the time it takes to update is minimal. It's a good payoff.
Much thanks for the comment and tips on how to improve that piece a bit up the page.
acapulco - There's no better reason than to get some finished work done.
Without wanting to be a douche as this is totally my opinion on things;
Spam bumping for comments when youre selective of your work? If you want crits/comments post all your work so theres something to comment on, otherwise it just seems like youre looking for attention.
Also, wouldn't you rather it be the quality of your art being the reason you get comments and not just because you're always at the top of the page because you keep it topped up? - At least thats how i view things, i'd rather my art speak for itself instead of spamming it everywhere and getting attention that way... hell, thats why i normally refrain from posting shit like this too.
This is about me though, and i find my source of motivation to come from not receiving recognition as it spurs me on to get better so that one day i do deserve attention and my words have value, i wouldnt want to cheapen that by spamming or being a drama queen.
I think what jack is trying to say is that it's great that you do so much, but you should really cut the self imposed time limits and work on pushing your art FURTHER instead of just a large number of things at once. It's cool that you have a lot going, but it seems like overkill as it doesn't feel like you're really pushing your newest stuff, if that makes sense. the portrait at the top of this page is a great example, just take your time with your work and try to best yourself each time.
It never really struck me as a bad thing, personally. I think it's a cool exercise and setting deadlines can be very motivational. Granted, the time line is a bit crunched but it's an exercise, if nothing else. But yes, pushing the artwork vertically as opposed to horizontally is always a good idea.
jack - First of all, thank you for your honesty. I can always appreciate someone speaking from their heart.
Now, I don't see when you established that my updates are lacking. Most people seem to disagree.
Then you proceed to call me a spammer and a drama queen (irony? lol), I don't know what made you ride through this thread on your high horse, but your preface and "It's only my opinion" justification don't warrant it : \
Good luck with your methods.
bounch - yea, good point. unfortunately life's circumstances demand a new portfolio. thanks for the comment.
poly - yes yes you drive the point home, but see comment above.
You know of Hannes... obviously, you lurk over on conceptart so its hard not to. Now, compare the volume of your work to his, relatively speaking your updates are lacking ... right? I don't know where you're getting;
"I don't see when you established that my updates are lacking. Most people seem to disagree."
Why set the bar low - if anything, what im saying benefits you... right? I mean, this last update after a few days has some substance and meat to it, its not like;
- When i first saw that i had to load them up and go back from one to another to really notice the changes, i mean really? people are saying thats not lacking - those people arent pushing you hard enough.
I'm not just trying to be a dick, because the only person that benefits from you doing more fucking work and posting less is YOU, it sure as fuck isnt me.
I think what i've said makes sense and it essentially all boils down to the last couple of lines.
Lastly, what i actually said in my previous post was;
"This is about me though, and i find my source of motivation to come from not receiving recognition as it spurs me on to get better so that one day i do deserve attention and my words have value, i wouldnt want to cheapen that by spamming or being a drama queen."
I honestly dont want to waste my time typing up shit like this, i love arguing but hate drawing attention to myself this way. I do think youre a spammer though, i mean... 1 picture per post which is a minor 20-30minute update? just keep fucking painting or show it to friends on msn to get the feedback you want.
edit;
Oh and one more thing (dunno why i googled your name and sketchbook, maybe out of curiosity)
When i find shit like
"it seems to work fine on my 11 other online sketchbooks.
nowadays I'm pretty busy, and this is a big dent in my update time."
So, you're "pretty busy" but youre updating 11 sketchbook threads - WHY? surely its a big dent in your PRACTICING time more so than your update time.
I know im not exactly a model example myself so yes, its a very high horse but I cant be alone in seeing that a problem - im just the first person to say it without sugar coating my words - truth hurts.
Jack- what does it concern you how often he posts, some people are just busy, the object of this sketchbook is to critique art not sit here filling up space with racket of blubbering foolery.
"I'm not just trying to be a dick, because the only person that benefits from you doing more fucking work and posting less is YOU, it sure as fuck isnt me."
Right, because this is Vatsel's sketchbook not yours so go back to your own sketchbook to benefit he cannot learn this stuff for you, you learn it for yourself so pull your head out of your arss for the warmth and do some work.
"I honestly dont want to waste my time typing up shit like this, i love arguing but hate drawing attention to myself this way. I do think youre a spammer though, i mean... 1 picture per post which is a minor 20-30minute update? just keep fucking painting or show it to friends on msn to get the feedback you want."
How about you stop wasting everyone's time and just not talk, look the perfect time saver. You know it takes far longer to type this crap than it takes to post an image.
google any top end artist, most of them have a sketchbook on every site.
I have a sketchbook on CA, cghub, wecookart, a page on DA, and cgsociety and a few smaller sites. I was even told by David Rapoza and a few other famous artists I have bumped into through other art forums that the more places the post the better.
star- I'll agree to the latter : P
jack - It takes a few seconds to copy-paste bbcode, the site you quoted off had an upload manager (hence the dent in my update time)
The main question in this discussion should be why are you so bitter about this, and why does this bother you so much?
Also, why do you need to infuse so much aggression in your posts? Could you have made your argument in a more pleasant manner?
Food for thought.
Jack is a VERY talented artist who is on the same journey of self teaching as you are, just a little further down the road.
It's embarrassing to see someone disregard such solid, helpful, inspirational advice. I figure you probably wont see him posting advice like that in here anymore, and it's a shame and only hurts your chances of improving as an artist. Not to say you need him to get good, by any means, but show some respect when people take the time to help you out. He has no personal stake in this, he was just trying to help you out.
Now, for some actual on topic crits:
You have a lot of fiddly details when you paint, but you rarely have the big forms defined very well. I would hazard a guess that you work zoomed in a lot -- take a step back and try to build up your values and forms zoomed out. If everything turns into a samey mess if you step away and squint your eyes your image is lacking in a lot of potential power. It would also explain how many fiddly, largely irrelevant updats you make -- it's easy to get caught up in the details, but what sells the image is the big stuff. For example, some of the rendering of the skin and the subtle facial forms on these chicks is awesome, but the faces look very flat and unremarkable overall because of the lack of bold, big planes and forms.
For those reasons, i'd say that rough on this page of the action scenewith the scifi dudes in the desert is the best thing on this page by far.
Definitely solid progress and improvement overall though man.
I ended up pming vatsel and sorting shit out somewhat, i really dont like posting shit like this and it got way too lengthy when all i really wanted to say is that posting less and doing more art is better.
enough drama haha, im a blunt, arrogant and unapologetic fuck.
I think in a lot of these pictures the composition suffers a lot because everything is clearly divided and theres no overlapping forms. (my favorites of the bunch is picture with the soliders going through pillars and the girl on the motorbike)
I did a quick paintover to try and illustrate my point on one of your pictures, take it with a pinch of salt as im piss poor with illustration.
I found this was the best example of an undynamic picture as its such a clear 50/50 split - why not have her dress leading you into the image? have a diagonal light source? emphasis the light/dark contrast and use vague details to hide her dark side.
These guys are far better than i am so these 2 images also kinda hint at what i mean;
Great stuff man! I really enjoy looking at your progress from your first page to this one. Your digital painting skills have really improved in particular. I do have a couple of suggestions. Your drawing strokes feel a little too tightly wound, like you're drawing from just your wrist and not using the whole movement of your arm. You should try to work a little looseness into your joints when drawing so you don't draw so tense. The other thing I noticed is that you tend to draw your heads a little too "tall". The rough proportions for the head are 2x3 and yours are somewhere between that and a 2x4, so try to get a little closer to that, unless it's intentional or I'm wrong in which case ignore me. but again, I really enjoy where you're going and how far you've come!
Beowulf- Yea I usually draw with the whole of my arm when I work in pencils, I need to translate that into my digital work. Also good point about the face ratios, I usually draw the forehead too tall, been trying to eliminate that for the past 2 weeks. thanks for the comments.
SupRore is absolutely right about zooming things. I guess that one of the most common mistakes digital artist make. Also - as an experiment - start a new painting and don't let yourself use small brushes - see what happens.
Btw I would die for more criticism for my works, the worst the better, so don't be so defensive - it's good for your work.
Oh wait what? I missed jack's and supRore's comments hahaha
Sorry for not replying! Jack quoted an image similar to mine in his post, and I naturally assumed that it was the end of my post.
Anyway, big thanks for the paintover jack.
SupRore, as much as you were right about the big forms,
you really shouldn't step into this "drama" or whatever the last page of this thread had turned into. Same goes for Vian.
Thank you for the tips, all.
the girl wit the stick on the mountain. that harsh long straight line in the middle of the pic doesnt flow well.it distracts the eye too much and theres nothing to go from there. very contrasty angles of the slope/to the stick, to the angle of the character itself.
for a landscape pic the way its cropped does suggest height, but lacks the depth. think about the tones of the bg and ways u can create vast distance from bg/foreground.
i like the colours used.
keep it up your workload is great! Bless u my child. BLESS U.
Hey there. I've been glancing at your sketchbook every so often for a long, long time on various places. But I don't think I've ever really taken the time to say anything. A part of me for awhile felt kind of like Jackwhat, I saw a lot of posts but found it difficult to say much to it. It's largely because your work actually makes it really really difficult to effectively critique (for me, anyway). Other than the generic "use reference, anatomy, perspective, blah blah, etc." Which I usually don't like doing if I can help it.
But I guess I'll go ahead and say something that might be more beneficial but sort of relates to all that. I honestly think you're working on stuff that's too complicated right now. I've actually given that critique out several times in various places, it seems to be a trend. I know it can be tempting to have all these ideas in your head, and to want to show them, but you've got to think also about what's going to help you improve more effectively as an artist. Large fantasy fights with 30 people in them, or a wizard blasting the shit out of a demon in a church, etc. Sure, they're cool ideas, but they're so vast in scope I think you wind up overlooking some fundamentals. And it makes it difficult for other artists to really give you some detailed advice.
I think you'd benefit from stepping back and working on simpler things. That girl in the feathery outfit with the gun. That I think is a good level right now. It's a single figure, still got some imagination to it, but it's not so complex a scene that we can't effectively take the time to critique it all at the same time. And in that image alone, I'd ask for what reference you used because her right arm (her right, left side of the image) kinda looks broken and I can't tell what she's trying to do with her legs. The handle on the gun looks pretty fat and I can't tell how her thumb is involved in holding the gun right now. I'd also step back and possibly do a grayscale version to define your lightsource, because a shadow cast from the neck gives a hint of direction that seems quickly lost in the rest of the image.
Also, don't be afraid to actively seek out sources of information. If you have an image of a character you really want to push to the next level - go completely outside of yourself, and approach another artist you think could really help. You're all over the place so I'm sure you can think of several artists with a ton of talent, but yet who may be in boat of not having much if any industry experience, just working on their skills. Hit them up in a PM and maybe ask for a quick paintover, or their take on it. What's the worst case scenario, they don't get back to you? That's largely how I got started with digital. There was a certain artist here on polycount (who would later go on to paint one of the most awesome anuses ever) who's work I really liked, and I hit him up in a PM. I was just a kid at the time, but I've never regret it, and still think back on the things I learned from that experience.
Some things to think about. I think as a whole you could be improving much faster if there was a little more focus to your studies and the content (and scope) of your works.
I think that "Two Listen" is right! You should focus more on one character and let that character express the emotion and interaction that you want too show and for that, you dont need 300 character's in the same scene. work on your scene mood and give more expression and energy to your character's trought the pose you will give them. I.E . the girl with the gun is a real good one, you have skills and it showing trought that single piece. But your aiming on quantity instead of quality, which's destroying all your effort.
two - much thanks for taking the time to write something! And putting the effort as well : ] Agreed on all points, and that's basically what I've been trying to do for the past few weeks.
Dark - thanks man. (and your english is spectacular dun worry about it)
Replies
Keep it up : ) I'll be watchin! (creepy huh xD)
The women holding the shield is off to a nice start although shes looking a little dainty/fragile, perhaps widening her stance a bit and emphasising where shes putting most of her weight to give her a bit more presence.
Good luck completing those 8 works by 17th feb, you did 4 in 14 days on this page so step up the pace!
The frequency of updates helps me get more comments. the time it takes to update is minimal. It's a good payoff.
Much thanks for the comment and tips on how to improve that piece a bit up the page.
acapulco - There's no better reason than to get some finished work done.
Spam bumping for comments when youre selective of your work? If you want crits/comments post all your work so theres something to comment on, otherwise it just seems like youre looking for attention.
Also, wouldn't you rather it be the quality of your art being the reason you get comments and not just because you're always at the top of the page because you keep it topped up? - At least thats how i view things, i'd rather my art speak for itself instead of spamming it everywhere and getting attention that way... hell, thats why i normally refrain from posting shit like this too.
This is about me though, and i find my source of motivation to come from not receiving recognition as it spurs me on to get better so that one day i do deserve attention and my words have value, i wouldnt want to cheapen that by spamming or being a drama queen.
selfish rant over, ill be on my way.
maybe that's not what he's trying to say. *shrug*
Now, I don't see when you established that my updates are lacking. Most people seem to disagree.
Then you proceed to call me a spammer and a drama queen (irony? lol), I don't know what made you ride through this thread on your high horse, but your preface and "It's only my opinion" justification don't warrant it : \
Good luck with your methods.
bounch - yea, good point. unfortunately life's circumstances demand a new portfolio.
poly - yes yes you drive the point home, but see comment above.
"I don't see when you established that my updates are lacking. Most people seem to disagree."
Why set the bar low - if anything, what im saying benefits you... right? I mean, this last update after a few days has some substance and meat to it, its not like;
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1273418&postcount=259
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1274078&postcount=260
- When i first saw that i had to load them up and go back from one to another to really notice the changes, i mean really? people are saying thats not lacking - those people arent pushing you hard enough.
I'm not just trying to be a dick, because the only person that benefits from you doing more fucking work and posting less is YOU, it sure as fuck isnt me.
I think what i've said makes sense and it essentially all boils down to the last couple of lines.
Lastly, what i actually said in my previous post was;
"This is about me though, and i find my source of motivation to come from not receiving recognition as it spurs me on to get better so that one day i do deserve attention and my words have value, i wouldnt want to cheapen that by spamming or being a drama queen."
I honestly dont want to waste my time typing up shit like this, i love arguing but hate drawing attention to myself this way. I do think youre a spammer though, i mean... 1 picture per post which is a minor 20-30minute update? just keep fucking painting or show it to friends on msn to get the feedback you want.
edit;
Oh and one more thing (dunno why i googled your name and sketchbook, maybe out of curiosity)
When i find shit like
"it seems to work fine on my 11 other online sketchbooks.
nowadays I'm pretty busy, and this is a big dent in my update time."
So, you're "pretty busy" but youre updating 11 sketchbook threads - WHY? surely its a big dent in your PRACTICING time more so than your update time.
I know im not exactly a model example myself so yes, its a very high horse but I cant be alone in seeing that a problem - im just the first person to say it without sugar coating my words - truth hurts.
Right, because this is Vatsel's sketchbook not yours so go back to your own sketchbook to benefit he cannot learn this stuff for you, you learn it for yourself so pull your head out of your arss for the warmth and do some work.
How about you stop wasting everyone's time and just not talk, look the perfect time saver. You know it takes far longer to type this crap than it takes to post an image.
google any top end artist, most of them have a sketchbook on every site.
I have a sketchbook on CA, cghub, wecookart, a page on DA, and cgsociety and a few smaller sites. I was even told by David Rapoza and a few other famous artists I have bumped into through other art forums that the more places the post the better.
Here you can check out my main sketch book http://wecookart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=186 just be warned about what you say I am a moderator.
To me Jack you sound like a troll because the next biggest pain in the arss compared to me is a troll.
Vatsel keep up the work do not let pricks like that bother you to much.
jack - It takes a few seconds to copy-paste bbcode, the site you quoted off had an upload manager (hence the dent in my update time)
The main question in this discussion should be why are you so bitter about this, and why does this bother you so much?
Also, why do you need to infuse so much aggression in your posts? Could you have made your argument in a more pleasant manner?
Food for thought.
Jack is a VERY talented artist who is on the same journey of self teaching as you are, just a little further down the road.
It's embarrassing to see someone disregard such solid, helpful, inspirational advice. I figure you probably wont see him posting advice like that in here anymore, and it's a shame and only hurts your chances of improving as an artist. Not to say you need him to get good, by any means, but show some respect when people take the time to help you out. He has no personal stake in this, he was just trying to help you out.
Now, for some actual on topic crits:
You have a lot of fiddly details when you paint, but you rarely have the big forms defined very well. I would hazard a guess that you work zoomed in a lot -- take a step back and try to build up your values and forms zoomed out. If everything turns into a samey mess if you step away and squint your eyes your image is lacking in a lot of potential power. It would also explain how many fiddly, largely irrelevant updats you make -- it's easy to get caught up in the details, but what sells the image is the big stuff. For example, some of the rendering of the skin and the subtle facial forms on these chicks is awesome, but the faces look very flat and unremarkable overall because of the lack of bold, big planes and forms.
For those reasons, i'd say that rough on this page of the action scenewith the scifi dudes in the desert is the best thing on this page by far.
Definitely solid progress and improvement overall though man.
enough drama haha, im a blunt, arrogant and unapologetic fuck.
I think in a lot of these pictures the composition suffers a lot because everything is clearly divided and theres no overlapping forms. (my favorites of the bunch is picture with the soliders going through pillars and the girl on the motorbike)
I did a quick paintover to try and illustrate my point on one of your pictures, take it with a pinch of salt as im piss poor with illustration.
I found this was the best example of an undynamic picture as its such a clear 50/50 split - why not have her dress leading you into the image? have a diagonal light source? emphasis the light/dark contrast and use vague details to hide her dark side.
These guys are far better than i am so these 2 images also kinda hint at what i mean;
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5470175390_9f45b2cda1_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5470175654_5cc55db28a_b.jpg
Btw I would die for more criticism for my works, the worst the better, so don't be so defensive - it's good for your work.
Sorry for not replying! Jack quoted an image similar to mine in his post, and I naturally assumed that it was the end of my post.
Anyway, big thanks for the paintover jack.
SupRore, as much as you were right about the big forms,
you really shouldn't step into this "drama" or whatever the last page of this thread had turned into. Same goes for Vian.
Thank you for the tips, all.
for a landscape pic the way its cropped does suggest height, but lacks the depth. think about the tones of the bg and ways u can create vast distance from bg/foreground.
i like the colours used.
keep it up your workload is great! Bless u my child. BLESS U.
But I guess I'll go ahead and say something that might be more beneficial but sort of relates to all that. I honestly think you're working on stuff that's too complicated right now. I've actually given that critique out several times in various places, it seems to be a trend. I know it can be tempting to have all these ideas in your head, and to want to show them, but you've got to think also about what's going to help you improve more effectively as an artist. Large fantasy fights with 30 people in them, or a wizard blasting the shit out of a demon in a church, etc. Sure, they're cool ideas, but they're so vast in scope I think you wind up overlooking some fundamentals. And it makes it difficult for other artists to really give you some detailed advice.
I think you'd benefit from stepping back and working on simpler things. That girl in the feathery outfit with the gun. That I think is a good level right now. It's a single figure, still got some imagination to it, but it's not so complex a scene that we can't effectively take the time to critique it all at the same time. And in that image alone, I'd ask for what reference you used because her right arm (her right, left side of the image) kinda looks broken and I can't tell what she's trying to do with her legs. The handle on the gun looks pretty fat and I can't tell how her thumb is involved in holding the gun right now. I'd also step back and possibly do a grayscale version to define your lightsource, because a shadow cast from the neck gives a hint of direction that seems quickly lost in the rest of the image.
Also, don't be afraid to actively seek out sources of information. If you have an image of a character you really want to push to the next level - go completely outside of yourself, and approach another artist you think could really help. You're all over the place so I'm sure you can think of several artists with a ton of talent, but yet who may be in boat of not having much if any industry experience, just working on their skills. Hit them up in a PM and maybe ask for a quick paintover, or their take on it. What's the worst case scenario, they don't get back to you? That's largely how I got started with digital. There was a certain artist here on polycount (who would later go on to paint one of the most awesome anuses ever) who's work I really liked, and I hit him up in a PM. I was just a kid at the time, but I've never regret it, and still think back on the things I learned from that experience.
Some things to think about. I think as a whole you could be improving much faster if there was a little more focus to your studies and the content (and scope) of your works.
Keep on it and you'll get where you want to be!
anyway sorry for the bad english!
Dark - thanks man. (and your english is spectacular dun worry about it)