Home Technical Talk

How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

12425272930188

Replies

  • System
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    System admin
    breakfast wrote: »
    I need a bit of help, I was wondering how you guys would model this tire:

    UbVpsm.jpg


    wheel.gif

    After that you could break parts off and work seperately, or just go ahead and work on it all at the same time. Boolean the holes in the centre to finish.
  • nnq2603
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    nnq2603 polycounter lvl 5
    Hey, someone give me tip or fast way to make this (cylinder intersects round surface?)
    I saw a article in Blaizer blog and started to follow. BTW, the step manual fixing boolean between cylinder & round surface is quite unefficient. Can u give some tip about that~

    I've done some part, images below... That's a part contains what I asking so far...
    ask02.jpgask02.jpg
  • Visceral
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    I know this must have been posted like 100 times before. But i've been seartching for like 40 pages now and didnt come up with a good sollution. Can anyone tell me what im doing wrong here?

    This is wires:
    2l9pr38.jpg

    And this is ref:
    2ex2bna.jpg
  • Ark
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Ark polycounter lvl 11
    Again you need more base geometry to support the curve.
  • System
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    System admin
    nnq2603 wrote: »
    Hey, someone give me tip or fast way to make this (cylinder intersects round surface?)
    ask02.jpg


    There's an easier way to do this.

    1. Start low poly eg: 12 sides for main cylinder, 6 sides for small.
    2. Do all your modelling on both parts, check smoothing with meshsmooth.
    3. Rotate, place all your small cylinders next to the large one.
    4. Delete all small cylinders except one.
    5. Select the large cylinder and clone it, hide the original.
    6. Boolean join the small cylinder to the large one.
    7. Select only the polygons for the small cylinder and detach as a new object, delete the rest.
    8. Unhide the large cylinder and select the new small cylinder object.
    9. At the open end where the small cylinder meets the large one select the edges and scale clone them outwards.
    10. Select the 2 last edgeloops of the small cylinder next to the join point and move them up slightly so they just meet.
    11. Add your meshsmooth ot turbosmooth and you will have a convincing join.
    12. As the pivot is already set just rotate clone the small cylinder around the large one and your done.
  • EarthQuake
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    isso09 wrote: »
    Thanks man!
    Here's a full shot of the piece:
    Screen%20shot%202011-02-20%20at%206.47.40%20PM.jpg

    SubD:
    Screen%20shot%202011-02-20%20at%206.48.04%20PM.jpg

    This is how I'm trying to solve it:
    Screen%20shot%202011-02-20%20at%206.47.51%20PM.jpg


    All I'm trying to do is sharpen certain edges and corners.
    Is there maybe a way to do this without splitting polys and pushing verts in a haphazard way? Are there any general rules for corners that I need to learn?

    EarthQuake wrote: »
    Start out with 64 sided cylinder
    modify into desired shape
    add supporting loops
    remove loops around the sides, this causes a small bit of pinching but should be fine when you bake.
    cylinderthing.gif

    Alternatively, add an extra set of edge loops, and then carry those control edges down the side a little further, you'll still get some pinching but maybe this is a more clean result, again shouldn't be noticeable when you bake.
    cylinderthing02.jpg

    Alternatively alternatively, just use a shitload of sides, like 128 or more. This will be harder to work with, but you can do some creative stuff like creating the bits that merge into this as floaters.

    adding some stuff from another thread
  • nnq2603
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    nnq2603 polycounter lvl 5
    There's an easier way to do this.

    1.

    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.
    6. Boolean join the small cylinder to the large one.
    7. Select only the polygons for the small cylinder and detach as a new object, delete the rest.
    8. Unhide the large cylinder and select the new small cylinder object.
    9. At the open end where the small cylinder meets the large one select the edges and scale clone them outwards.
    10. Select the 2 last edgeloops of the small cylinder next to the join point and move them up slightly so they just meet.
    11. Add your meshsmooth ot turbosmooth and you will have a convincing join.
    12. As the pivot is already set just rotate clone the small cylinder around the large one and your done.
    Steps is similar, don't have to reapeat whole again. Your method seem isn't easier in last steps, maybe longer than. And I ask about boolean afterward...

    And can you tell more about these steps -

    6. Boolean join the small cylinder to the large one.
    7. Select only the polygons for the small cylinder and detach as a new object, delete the rest.
    8. Unhide the large cylinder and select the new small cylinder object.
    9. At the open end where the small cylinder meets the large one select the edges and scale clone them outwards.
    10. Select the 2 last edgeloops of the small cylinder next to the join point and move them up slightly so they just meet.

    What about 9 and 10? It doesn't seem show any useful info (?) ... it'd be better if u spend time make a example for these steps.

    ANother steps (make suitable poly for 2 cylinders, make 1/16 of it and polar array, attach, weld vertices etc...) is quite similar and I've done the model part. But I want a efficient way overcome boolen fixing next time I don't have to do again that task. Then just explain more about 9-10 n seem it means float? I don't get the step which intersection get in shape and smooth without manual fixing it. Thanks.

    edit: I've made similar object again, but end up manual fix boolean. Or maybe fixing boolean sometime is necessary way to go?
    2.png1.png
  • System
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    System admin
    No, this method is alot quicker than adjusting a high poly after a boolean operation. You may have to fiddle with a few vertices but it's alot less pain, trust me.

    BooleanCylinders.gif

    File link REMOVED - those son of a bitches are offering spyware instead of the file I uploaded, wtf :(
    So hey, if you need it, let me know and I'll email it to you.
  • SpeCter
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    SpeCter polycounter lvl 14
    GCMP: Why not use dropbox to host your files?
    Just put your files into your public folder, get the public link and post it?
  • nnq2603
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    nnq2603 polycounter lvl 5
    GCMP: I prefer make it myself since I join this more as a hobbyist than a guy who request for model. (: If I can't reproduce it your way, I'll ask again :p

    BTW, I didn't make hipoly boolean, I make boolean for (little) 8 sides and (big) 32 sides cylinder.Consider they have suitable segments between their size... Then fix it, detach the part (1/6 1/9 or 1/12 depends model)& array and attach together, so on... (that blog is almost spanish or something else then I didn't read it, try figure out via images screenshot, maybe I didn't go exactly the way blogger wrote down).

    But as I see in gif, instead deal with intersection your way avoid it. And it's quicker, agree, but seem it's quite cheat (?) Not a problem, but the result seem too sharp intersection for my eyes. How you make it smoother in the area where cylinder touch each others (it smooth the bottom part of cylinder but that intersection remain sharp)? Manual placing/arranging the bottom edges loop seem can't be accurace as usually see in sub-d solution(?). BTW It avoid the actual intersection which quite nice :D and faster. Thanks about this tip, I'll keep it.

    Wondering is it a proper way to do it? In sub-d modeling I guess they deal with this problem by actual modeling, not avoid it... How really they do it? Or your way is popular/well-known way? I feel people have got their (different) way, just haven't figure it out due my short time practise sub-d. Hope someone will share their way.
  • System
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    System admin
    SpeCter checked out your link earlier on, I didn't realise you had to install a program. It's a bit off putting for one file but will be kept in mind for the future. Cheers.
    nnq2603 wrote: »

    Wondering is it a proper way to do it? In sub-d modeling I guess they deal with this problem by actual modeling, not avoid it... How really they do it? Or your way is popular/well-known way? I feel people have got their (different) way, just haven't figure it out due my short time practise sub-d. Hope someone will share their way.


    Yeah this is quicker but faking the join as you say and the improper way of modelling if you want to display a cool looking wireframe. You may want to go a different route for that, depends how much time you have on your hands though.
  • SpeCter
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    SpeCter polycounter lvl 14
    Dropbox can be a lifesaver, i put almost every script and stuff i have in there and have it on every one of my pc´s.
    And for now it may seem overkill for one picture, but i´m almost sure that there are more to come.
  • EarthQuake
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Actually, its very easy to do floating intersections that appear to be "seamless". I do this often when I have really complex shapes intersect, and I would rather not mess it up by merging it all together.

    Its pretty simply, just model your base shape, and then on the intersecting part make sure you have two supporting poly rings, one near the bottom, and then another that widens out to fake the bevel of a real intersection. The same thing you would do if making a floating screw detail or something.

    I model the basic shape, and then tweak it while sub-ds are on(isoline mode) so I can get it accurate to the smoothed model.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/499159/floatingintersection.obj

    floatingintersection01.jpg
    floatingintersection02.jpg
    floatingintersection03.jpg
    floatingintersection04.jpg
  • blorg
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Hi-

    I am trying to model this shape on the flashlight. I have made several different attempts, but they all failed. When I succeed getting the hard edges in, it disturbs the rounding of the outside of the cylinder. I can adjust the vetices manually to match the rounding a bit better, but I doubt, that is the right approach. Is there any way to model this in a clean way?


    This is as far, as I get without breaking it.
    e38b218c622a6da035f6498acb71e2bd.png
  • EarthQuake
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Start with a 36 sided cylinder, bevel(inset in max?) in to get a poly ring. Select 4, skip to, select 4, etc etc. Extrude out twice, model into desired shape(I rotated edges for the sides, and used edge slide for the inner edgeloop). Then just add your supporting geo, and done.

    That was fun. You could do a few tweaks to get it a bit more accurate to your ref, but this basic topology should be fine.

    flashlightthing01.jpg

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/499159/flashlightthing.obj
  • krisCrash
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    krisCrash polycounter lvl 9
    Inset in max is like a bevel (extrude and modify size) with a height of 0 if that is what you mean.

    Maybe we should get a reference going of what the names are and what the tools can do, across packages. Because extruding edges works different than extruding a face etc. Well that's starting to remind me of the famous thread about POLES!

    Also this thread is fun and entertaining to read. I don't use sub-d that much myself, but it's great for creating deadly curves on swords :P instead of manually placing points - the curves are just curvier.
  • blorg
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Earthquake: thanks for the quick reply. Your model is looking good, I like how you used the loops to define that shape. I would not have thought of that.

    I changed the geometry a bit, because that vertex created a distortion.
    ab6db16adfc9316d7eb0fb0d5c65ccfc.png


    also to retain edge sharpness I put in another edge around the outside of the cylinder, is that the correct approach? (sorry if this is a stupid question, i understand very little about subd)

    3eb09c4f1c8ac3b502c7b42eacd03903.png
  • Sean VanGorder
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    When it comes to high poly stuff, if it looks right, then it's the correct approach.
  • EarthQuake
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    SeanEG wrote: »
    When it comes to high poly stuff, if it looks right, then it's the correct approach.

    Right, unless you have some very specific need for a certain type of topology(animation?) just do what looks good.
  • blorg
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    ok. and thanks again eq for taking the time and helping me and other ppl out. also for uploading that obj! i took the time to read through the whole thread, it was very much worth it.
  • THE 5
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    THE 5 polycounter lvl 14
    So I am working on this handheld howitzer
    pc%20hymds%20haubitze%20pic%201.jpg
    and wonder whats the best approach to bridge these two parts (blue with red).
    pc%20hymds%20haubitze%20wire%201.jpg

    My discarded attempts so far were:
    • Cap the gap and cut in connections. -> Took a while amd looked quite messy.
    • Bride opposing edges individually. -> The tight edges became realy messed up, especially the area with the cut out cylinder.
    • Fill concave areas (see right wires above) and bridge individually. -> Still pretty messy.

    Now my current approach is to ADD EXTRA GEOMETRY to the inner mesh so I got an equal ammount of inner and outer edges that bridge well. I am shure this will become ugly too.
    Also I don't want to leave the area plane like it is now, I want to do some extrusion on the new surface afterwards, so edge termination might cause even worse topology.

    Is there a preferred approach or just trial and error?
  • EarthQuake
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    When it comes to adding control loops, its best to keep it simple until everything is a solid chunk, so in this case, more geo isn't a good idea.

    Now, this whole thing seems very confusing, why are you worrying about modeling the inside of it? Will this animate? I dont really get what you're trying to accomplish here. Just model the two shapes(the base, and the bit protruding from the back) separately, and be done with it.
  • blorg
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    i'm not sure if I understand you correctly. i marked parts of the edge orange. is that where you want to connect?

    00f28d6594c8d571f55d459e09a71a8b.png
  • Jesse Moody
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Jesse Moody polycounter lvl 17
    Why model the inside?

    Could just use a shell modifier if you want to give it thickness.
  • Artifice
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    THE 5 wrote: »
    -> Took a while amd looked quite messy.
    -> Still pretty messy.
    -> I am shure this will become ugly too.

    Are you trying to win an art contest with your wires? If it works, it works. No one will care what a 'mess' it is if the finished product looks great. If I were to have to do it another way, I'd probably edge extrude in from the blue, then start moving verts to match the red, then cut in the rest of the geo for the red.

    Honestly, your real problem here is the lack of a block in. There's not much you can do about it now, but connecting two simple pieces without supporting edges is much easier than doing it with all those little edges. A bit of planning means you don't run into technical hurdles like this. Just something to consider for next time.
    EarthQuake wrote:
    more geo isn't a good idea
    :susp: Did you really just say that? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE REAL EQ? :D!!
  • THE 5
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    THE 5 polycounter lvl 14
    Sorry, I should have said that this is the hole for the slide:
    pc%20hymds%20haubitze%20slide%201.jpg
    You can somewhat look inside the gun when the shell is ejected.

    @Artifice:
    But it does not look right, there are lots of smoothing problems.
    You are right about the planing thoug. I just start modelling when I got some inspiration and I start into details and sub-D way to early. I am aware of these problems of mine :S

    @Jesse Moody:
    Simple shell gives me ugglyness aswell, Due to the fact that I already got the supporting edges. They kinda overlap themselfes, you shure know what I am trying to say.

    @blorg:
    yes, all arround it, see the new image above.

    I probably could take some of the holes "complexity" away, since only the upper part is realy relevant.
  • Artifice
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    If you don't find an easier way, you might remove all the supporting loops from both objects (make a copy of the mesh before you do it, so you can reference), then connect them, then recut the supporting loops on the whole thing. You'd only have to remove the supports running long ways, so it might not be too much work. That'd probably be the easiest way to get you where you want to be at this point.
  • EarthQuake
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Just manually connect the edges in a manner that isn't such a mess, ie: not bridge.
  • THE 5
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    THE 5 polycounter lvl 14
    I'm fiddling to get some propper connections done. I guess a less uggly topoly comes with practice and experiance. I will look for some edge termination techniques that might help me.
    @Artifice:
    I dont feel like removing the existing support loops since this models is solely for my own entertainment :p
  • Yamo
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    How would I have the inner shape (as well as the star that would be in the middle) conform to the curves of this Captain America shield? The shield is curved but the blue portion of the star is flat

    shield1.jpg

    My reference
  • Ark
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Ark polycounter lvl 11
    You have gone the opposite and have way to much geometry on the base to work with. If your using SDS then you don't need that much geometry to get a nice round silhouette.
    Most programs have tools that let you conform one mesh to another, without knowing what app your using it makes it hard to answer.
  • Yamo
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Ah sorry, I forgot to mention I use max
  • AlecMoody
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    AlecMoody ngon master
    breakfast wrote: »
    Hey guys, been following these forums/this thread for a while but this is my first post here.

    I need a bit of help, I was wondering how you guys would model this tire:

    UbVpsm.jpg

    I looks pretty simple at first but it's actually quite complex and I'm having a lot of trouble with it. It's particularly in the middle where the 5 spokes come together and curve down into the bolts (and making those holes for the bolts to sit in).

    Can anyone give me some pointers? Or if someones keen enough to make it, make a recording/gif of how you did it?

    Thanks in advance guys, excellent thread.


    Model your tire as one flat tile segment of the tread + sidewall then create an array, weld pieces, and then apply sub-d and finally bend 360 degrees to be round.


    Here is an example of a tire I modeled with a similar method. It wasn't for a game model and it wasn't going to be baked so I opted not to do it as sub-d. For a highpoly that is going to be baked you should use sub-d.
  • Ark
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Ark polycounter lvl 11
    Yamo wrote: »
    Ah sorry, I forgot to mention I use max

    Look into the Conform tool, under Compound Objects.
  • Pedro Amorim
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Yamo wrote: »
    How would I have the inner shape (as well as the star that would be in the middle) conform to the curves of this Captain America shield? The shield is curved but the blue portion of the star is flat

    shield1.jpg

    My reference

    Bro.. just make the shield, totally flat. thenn use and FFD inside max and pux the inner ffd vert to make that shidl rounded.
  • Tom Ellis
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Hey all.

    Spent a day trying to figure out how to model these damn chairs. Most difficult thing I've ever done in my life. Moan moan whinge.

    I kinda got the seat shape ok, but just lost all hope when it came to the legs moulding into it. And yes this is the only ref pic I have, in a book (crappy cam phone pic sorry). Am I mad for attempting it with such poor ref? Unfortunately I don't know the name of the chairs so I can't find any better pics.

    How in the world would I model this? It's for a prerendered scene so it'll be high poly only, and need to be ultra clean and smooth.

    Photo%20Feb%2025%2C%209%2016%2047%20PM.jpg
  • Jeremy Wright
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Jeremy Wright polycounter lvl 17
    Comic nerd here, Cap's shield isn't embossed, it's smooth. The circles and star are just paint.
  • haiddasalami
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    haiddasalami polycounter lvl 14
    Could do something like what EQ posted in the shapes thread.

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1293545&postcount=1391
  • Jason Young
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Jason Young polycounter lvl 14
    The image is sideways, so I have no idea.

    This should be pretty simple. Post what you've got done so far, and isn't there a thread specifically for this?
  • Tom Ellis
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    JMYoung wrote: »
    The image is sideways, so I have no idea.

    This should be pretty simple. Post what you've got done so far, and isn't there a thread specifically for this?

    Fixed!

    /facepalm for not putting this in the correct thread. I knew there was a 'How u model..' thread but I clicked through a load of pages in TT to find it, couldn't see it. Then realised it was a sticky ><

    Mods feel free to move this!

    Yeah EQ's method looks promising. I think it's just terrible ref to be honest, I can't even see the front properly.
  • Danielmn
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Danielmn polycounter lvl 14
    hey guys, we were talking about cylinder and cutting geo into it, so I just thought I post this piece that I just finished for a gun I am working on, to inspire others.
    BoltPiece.jpg
  • SkyGround
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    SkyGround polycounter lvl 11
    Danielmn Nice!
    Like presentation. There are 2 lights, GI, right?
  • sasuki
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Can you guys tell how can i make ths shape (Gas mask tube) go along the curve? Im using Maya


    This
    testypn.jpg



    Like this
    be-016.jpg
  • Danielmn
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Danielmn polycounter lvl 14
    skyground, thank you,
    yes your exactly right. And a little PS levels as well.

    sasuki I could tell you in max but I dont know maya so well sorry,
    here is something I googled that might help
    http://vcell.ndsu.nodak.edu/~christjo/vcell/Tutorial/tutorial1.htm
  • ajr2764
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    ajr2764 polycounter lvl 10
    @Sasuki - Here's what I would do using Maya: Create a curve, create a 8 sided cylinder cap, snap it to the end of the curve, select cap/curve, select extrude option box & check on use selected curve, set your divisions high enough, then all you have to do is select the rows of polygons and extrude on the local normal.
  • Ark
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Ark polycounter lvl 11
    sasuki wrote: »
    Can you guys tell how can i make ths shape (Gas mask tube) go along the curve? Im using Maya

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1178590&postcount=1035

    Just use your curve instead on the circle mentioned.
  • WarrenM
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    OK, I've been trying to teach myself Mudbox lately and I've run into a wall where I need to ask how the pros do it.

    Consider this space dude face I've been working on:

    SpaceDudeB.png

    Now, see that thing on the side of his head? I struggled endlessly trying to get that to be a nice flat piece of something but no matter what I do in Mudbox, the best I can do is something that looks like packed and smoothed mud - which makes some sense, in retrospect.

    The thing is, I don't know how to achieve that shape. I tried another method of creating the ear piece in Max and then importing it as a separate object but I don't see how to connect it nicely to the existing head. See here:

    SpaceDudeD.png

    OK, so how does go about doing this sort of model in Mudbox? I see how to do organic shapes but hard surface stuff is escaping me. And for that matter, how do I get nice wires instead of the squishy worms he is wearing on his head?
  • ZacD
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    ZacD ngon master
    Model the hard surface stuff in a normal 3d app, and do the face/sculpt in mudbox
  • WarrenM
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    Right, but I guess I was asking for something more concrete. Is that how people do models with a mix of surface types? They do the soft body stuff in Mudbox and then tack on the hard surface stuff as separate models?

    Do you then take that frankenstein collection of meshes and retopo into a low poly mesh, weld verts and clean it up as best you can, UV it, and then process the high poly object soup against it to get the normal/AO maps?
  • WarrenM
    Options
    Offline / Send Message
    OK, thanks! That helps. I'll see what I can do with that.

    And apologies about being in the wrong thread, I guess I didn't read the title carefully enough.
12425272930188
Sign In or Register to comment.