Home Technical Talk

How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

Replies

  • iacdxb
    Offline / Send Message
    iacdxb polycounter lvl 3
    Yes... Thanks. it works.
    ...
  • Doguib7
    Offline / Send Message
    Doguib7 polycounter lvl 6
    Hey there folks!
    I am looking for new ways or approaches to model a 3D cartoon character! I know this is pretty relative but generally, there are some useful solutions to get proper deformations and topology! The aim is a pretty standard 3D cartoon character!
    Please share with me whatever could be helpful!

    Thanks in advance!
  • FrankPolygon
    Offline / Send Message
    FrankPolygon quad damage
    @99499 If the shoes are an important part of the character that the players will interact with and view up close then it probably makes sense to model them as separate objects and rig them to match the rest of the character. A lot will depend on what the shoes are supposed to do and what the rest of the workflow looks like.

    @Doguib7 Broad, open ended questions like that rarely provide satisfying answers. More specific questions, accompanied with images or examples of specific modeling or topology issues, tend to be more answerable. Some general information about character modeling and animation is available on the polycount wiki. ArtStation learning may also have some general resources and there's a lot of YouTube videos about character modeling, rigging and animation.

    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Animation

    @Rolf The undulations in the subdivided mesh are likely caused by the diagonal twist in the edge loops that run up and down the hull.

    There's a few different ways to approach modeling this but try blocking out the shape of the hull with vertical segments that match the actual shape of the ship's frames. Placing these frames at regular intervals (matching the stations in the ship's plans) should make it easier to fair the lines of the hull. Here's an example of what this could look like.


  • Doguib7
    Offline / Send Message
    Doguib7 polycounter lvl 6
    @FrankPolygon
    Thank you very much, buddy! I'll take a look!
  • stuffinmyhead
    Offline / Send Message
    stuffinmyhead polycounter lvl 5
    Hello there.

    I am trying to model the FLIR camera of a seahawk helicopter. But i have problems with pitching and pretty much bad topology. The objective is to model this cylinder with all the flat cuts from these refrence images
    https://imgur.com/a/WkZprs6

    And here is my attempt at doing it. As you can see when i apply turbosmooth i get allot of bad pintching and artifacts. Could you please help me out here?
    https://imgur.com/a/Yy3GL9I

  • ConvexSurface
    @ConvexSurface Overall it looks like you have the right idea but sometimes connecting directly to a curve's existing polygon grid can cause a lot of smoothing issues. In these cases it's often better to place the intersecting geometry between the existing segments of the curved surface and use the existing curve geometry as support loops.

    Both of these topology strategies are legitimate methods for combining shapes but which topology layout is best will depend on the density of the cage mesh and the desired smoothing behavior around the shape transitions. The appropriate amount of geometry and the size of the supports loops will ultimately depend on the the desired edge sharpness and the intended use / view distance of the in-game model.

    When encountering minor shape inaccuracies and smoothing issues: it's always worth considering whether or not players will ever view something closely enough or often enough to notice. There's marginal returns on trying to improve something that won't be noticed by most players.

    There's a similar example of how to control the smoothing around a tab added to a curved surface on the previous page. One of the quicker ways to create this type of topology for an approximate copy of the part in the engineering drawing would be to inset the faces on the curved surface then extrude the profile of the tab shape and add the rounded features and select support loops with a series of bevel / chamfer operations. The rest of the interior support loops can be added with inset operations. Below is an example of what this modeling process could look like.



    One potential issue with this modeling strategy is the starting density of the curved shape can become a limiting factor for subsequent modeling operations. This makes is quite possible (if not extremely likely) that there will be situations where the initial segment count of the curve will interfere with changes to the surrounding geometry and may require significant manual re-work after a lot of time is already invested in the cage mesh.

    Resolving the majority of these shape accuracy and shape intersection issues during the block out will save a lot of time later on in the modeling process. Manually forcing geometry into position is generally both time consuming and relatively inaccurate so avoid it whenever possible and focus on finding the right tools and order of operations to develop the shapes quickly and efficiently.

    Planning out how to use the minimum amount of geometry required to accurately hold all of the major shapes and matching the segments of adjacent shapes whenever possible will make it easier to edit the mesh and merge shape intersections. This is why it's generally considered best practice to block out the shapes of all the major features and figure out how most of the shape intersections will interact before adding a significant amount of support geometry or secondary details.

    Here's an example where the tab and the curved surface are developed as separate meshes and merged using a boolean operation. Intersecting shapes are placed between existing edges for support and additional support loops around the major shapes are added with a bevel / chamfer modifier. This leaves a few stray vertices that can be dissolved or snap merged into the adjacent topology. Since flat surfaces are largely immune the effects of triangles and n-gons there's no real reason to extend extra edge loops across the mesh unless there's smoothing artifacts.


    The engineering drawing seems to suggest that the tab has a fillet around the base where it joins to the part. The previous example uses a different modeling process but shares the same general topology layout with the first example. The loop that runs around the shape intersection is generally used to take up any difference between intersecting shape's geometry and the underlying curve's geometry but it can also be used to add a fillet transition between the shapes.

    Here's an example of what it looks like when a fillet is added by using a different value during the bevel / chamfer operation. Adding a fillet larger than the average width of the support loops is something that should probably be addressed separately and earlier in the block out.



    Another possibility is the curved section of the tab blends into the flat area just past the curved surface. In cases like this it's generally fine to connect directly to the underlying geometry since all of the support loops run perpendicular to the curved portion of the mesh. Below is an example of the same boolean union with bevel / chamfer support loops. This topology layout would also work with the extrusion modeling approach.



    Here's a comparison of the three topology layouts covered. It's possible to combine elements of each depending on how and where the tab joins the curved surface. The overall width of the support loops will control the edge sharpness and can be adjusted as necessary.

    Independently adjusting the number of segments in the curved surface becomes more important if very sharp edges are desired. For some shape combiniations (with significant differences in edge width like having sharp front transitions with fillets on each side) it may be necessary to run some of the bevel / chamfer operations separately.



    Below is an extra example that shows how solving shape intersection issues early in the block out stage makes it easier to add support loops and should also help reduce the amount of geometry used. All of the major shapes in these examples were created using tools that create consistent curves and maintain co-planar geometry. Finding the correct order of operations and relying on tools to make changes to the mesh should eliminate most of the manual vert pushing that tends to introduce shape inaccuracies.


    Razor sharp edges and CAD levels of perfection aren't exactly the strong points of subdivision modeling processes. With subdivision modeling there's almost always going to be some degree of shape inaccuracy and edge softness. This is actually very useful because controlling edge width / sharpness is an important part of controlling the visual read of baked normals and the approximate nature of subdivision modeling makes it easier to control complex shapes with a lot less geometry. It's also worth reiterating that depending on view distance, texture size and object scale these minor smoothing issues or other imperfections may be complete non-issues.

    Recap:
    Some of the pinching and webbing smoothing artifacts can be corrected by fully developing the shapes during the block out, placing the intersecting geometry between the existing geometry along the curved surface and maintaining a consistent edge width on the support loops. Connecting directly to the grid topology of the curve is fine wherever the intersecting geometry runs perpendicular to the curve. The tab in the engineering drawing appears to have a fillet around where it joins the rest of the part so depending on how large the object is and how players will interact with it the existing geometry may be adequate.
    Thank you very much for the detailed and prompt explanation Frank (and apologies for my late reply). There's one thing thing I haven't quite understood though: What operator(s) was used to perform the first step in the final example you posted? To make the connecting mesh between the tab and curve diagonal? Some kind of shear transform? I can't seem to reproduce it.
  • FrankPolygon
    Offline / Send Message
    FrankPolygon quad damage
    @ConvexSurface You're welcome.

    Correct: The sloped surface was created by a shear operation with the pivot point set to the top edge of the shape. Depending on the shape it may be necessary to rotate everything into position so everything is in plane with direction of the shear operation. Afterwords everything can be rotated back into position. An alternate option would be to include the slope at the very beginning of the block out and use a boolean operation to join the shapes. It all comes down to where these changes happen in the order of operations.
  • stuffinmyhead
    Offline / Send Message
    stuffinmyhead polycounter lvl 5
    @stuffinmyhead It looks like the flat areas are cut out of the cylinder's shape rather than added to it. With this type of shape intersection it's important to keep the cylinder wall segments straight and keep the intersecting shapes perfectly flat.

    Start by blocking out the basic shape and use some planes or rectangles to determine the exact angle for each of the flat surfaces. Adjust the number of segments in the cylinder to support all of the intersecting geometry then subtract the flat areas from the cylinder. The existing cylinder wall geometry can be used as support by placing the intersecting geometry between the existing edge segments. How much geometry is required depends on how accurate the shapes need to be. If done correctly the subtracted areas will be perfectly flat and the perimeter of the new shapes will match the line drawings.

    Below is an example of what this process could look like.



    Triangles and n-gons are fine as long as they aren't causing any major smoothing issues. Minor smoothing issues may not be visible to players because of the matte surface finish and the relatively small scale of the object when compared to the rest of the vehicle.

    When deciding how accurate the shapes need to be, consider how closely and how often players will view the model. Use the appropriate amount of geometry to accurately hold the shapes and avoid over complicating the cage mesh.

    The last few pages cover a lot of other cylinder shape intersections and there's some additional information that may be helpful so it might be worth skimming through and reading about other cylinder shape intersections.

    Thank you! :)
  • dan001
    Offline / Send Message
    dan001 polycounter lvl 6
    Hi everyone, I'm quite new to this. I wonder what would be your approach on this piece so the subdivision is correct.
  • Herbert
    Hi guys, i am trying to model this piece as a practice but i faced some problems on areas marked.
    In area A, i could not resolve the polygons to be all quads, so i tested with tris and n-gons and surprisingly does not cause any shading issues, however shading in area B suffer from bad topology i guess? So how would i solve the problem in this case. Also i am feeling the need to ask this question is there a way that i can achieve all quads in area A? just for the sake of doing all quads? 

    Thank you guys for your time!! 
  • sacboi
    Offline / Send Message
    sacboi quad damage
    You've the patience of a saint :D
  • IronLover64
    How do I model the handle? I tried doing it this way, but I couldn't get the intersection with the curve and triangle correctly.
  • IronLover64
    Forgot to mention that I forgot to shrink the end of the triangle
  • FrankPolygon
    Offline / Send Message
    FrankPolygon quad damage

    Try to capture all of the major shapes in the block out before adding support loops and applying subdivision. It may also be helpful to break the grip down into separate parts and join the front and back together latter on in the modeling process.

    Evaluating the shapes in the reference images: The front part of the grip has a round over and the lower part of the frame has an angled profile. These two shapes are blended together with a radiused corner transition above the trigger.

    There's a lot of ways to model this shape but one of the simplest approaches would be to setup an edge loop path with the exact width of the round over and cut in perpendicular edges to act as stop points for the radiused corner transition area. Dissolve or merge the geometry along the front bottom of the frame to create the tapered triangular shape and make sure the corner geometry above the round over loop flows directly into this new shape. Select the outer edges (highlighted in white) and run a percentage based bevel / chamfer operation to add the round over and blended radius transition in a single operation.

    A similar process can be used on the back of the grip. Block out the basic shape, create and taper the end of a support loop path for the round over, use a bevel / chamfer operation to add the curved shape to the back strap and add the round over with a percentage based bevel / chamfer operation.

    From there it should be a relatively straightforward process of cleaning up any stray geometry (merge by distance, limited dissolve, edge dissolve, etc.) and adding additional support loops to create the final subdivision ready cage mesh. Below is an example of what this process could look like on the front and back of the grip.

  • JBurk
    Hi all, newish modeler. I have using blender for 8 months now. I am modeling a biplane and I am struggling with the metal cap that connects the cylinders and the propellor. These are the two versions I have tried. I would like to use only quads but I don't know how to model it so the portion where the two cylinders meet don't create a bump at the top of that triangular quad.


    What would be the proper way to model this with quads?
  • wirrexx
    Offline / Send Message
    wirrexx interpolator
    JBurk said:
    Hi all, newish modeler. I have using blender for 8 months now. I am modeling a biplane and I am struggling with the metal cap that connects the cylinders and the propellor. These are the two versions I have tried. I would like to use only quads but I don't know how to model it so the portion where the two cylinders meet don't create a bump at the top of that triangular quad.


    What would be the proper way to model this with quads?
     
    It would help to add references to what you want to do! =)
  • JBurk
    oh right! so that big metal piece in the center is what I am aiming at. Im going stylized so I am ignoring the bolts that are in between each cylinder.
  • JBurk
  • JBurk
    @FrankPolygon

    Here is what I got after blocking it out and using a boolean. I am attempting to get as perfect a spherical shape as possible and the only way I was able to achieve that was dropping the poly count a lot. with this model it is really hard to get a perfectly spherical cone with a hard transition into the cylinder jugs. This is totally acceptable for what I am doing but for the sake of experimentation, I would like to figure out if I can get this transition to be sharp and keep my perfectly cylindrical body.

    Would I just need a ton of geometry?

    And I am having trouble getting appropriate geometry because the cone tapers 
    On the left I can get it to line up but on the back end because the cylinder gets wider I cant match up the geometry. 

    This is all stuff I that I probably don't need but I would really like to be able to achieve.
  • wirrexx
    Offline / Send Message
    wirrexx interpolator
    @FrankPolygon always fun too see you do your stuff! =)
  • JBurk
    @FrankPolygon
    Woohoo! 
    Thank you so much for taking the time to give such a thorough explanation. You truly are a legend. 
    This geometry for joining the corners is a game changer. It helped my stretch the back of the cylinder jug geometry when it didn't quite line up with the edge the same way the front of the crank case did.

    Stoked!
  • Suosa
    Hi guys, 

    First time posting here after lurking for a while! 
    I've been looking a round to see if I could find a case that is similar to mine but they all look sort of similar but a lot more complex and I just keep getting lost trying to get my head around it, being frustrated in finding a solution is not helping too..

    Basically I'm modelling a low polly stylized axe for a personal project of mine. I've finished the low poly axe but I now want to add supporting edge loops so I can bring it into zbrush to add the missing details and stuff.

    However, I decided to add some chips to the axe's blade (increasing the verts but very minimaly) so it would give it a bit more character. 

    The problem is I cannot, for the life of me, wrap my head around adding supporting edge loops so that I can have a charp blade and chipped parts. Here are some screenshots to give you an idea of what I am trying to say.

    Low poly version with chipped blade


    My main issue now is how do I keep the blade sharp and incorportate support edge loops around the chip so I can subdivide it properly when bringing it into Zbrush for details.


    Ive tried beveling the blade so I would look sharp but since the bevel goes through the chipped part then it sort of bleeds into it which is not ideal 




    What it looks like



    After this I've just been slowly losing my sanity trying to find ways to make it work. I've tried beveling and adding edge loops manually but it all feels like an unnaturally lonmg procedure.. or maybe I just need a reality check! 



    At this point I end up with ngons and having to merge vertices and losing edge flow (which I understand I don't need since I'm going to bake the details onto the low poly). The final result isnt that bad but I have 3 other chipped bits and the amount of manual corrections / edges I've had to make seems counterproductive at this point...

    I know this is painful to watch and apologise in advance.

    I'm just running out of patience and motivation to keep working on this as I've been stuck here for many hours.
    I would greatly appreciate any pointers on how to go about when it comes to details like these.

    Thanks!
  • IronLover64
    How do I model the disk part as well as the screens?

    Since this mesh has an odd number of screens, I had to make a 14 sided cylinder in blender, keep two of the 14 faces, extrude the screens, and duplicate and rotate the faces 7 times. I want to add a bevel to the mesh because importing this mesh to 3D Coat for sculpting additional detail automatically makes the edges smooth. The topology isn't fit for beveling. How else should I model this?

  • FrankPolygon
    Offline / Send Message
    FrankPolygon quad damage
    @Suosa It looks like you're on the right track. If the mesh subdivides cleanly, without any major smoothing artifacts, then it's generally acceptable to use n-gons and triangles in hard surface subdivision models.

    Since this model is going through a sculpting pass it may make more sense to try and add these minor surface defects in ZBrush. A boolean re-meshing and detail sculpting workflow may be more efficient than trying to perfect all of these small details on the subdivision base mesh for the high poly sculpt. If including the larger surface defects in the subdivision mesh is a stylistic choice then just route the support loops around the major shapes and try to constrain any n-gons or triangles to the flat areas.

    Extremely narrow support loops tend to produce a tight edge highlight and although it can look good up close it may be difficult to read from regular view distances. Over sharpened edges can also cause baking issues so consider using a slightly wider and more consistent edge width across the entire shape.

    Below is an example of what this could look like: block out the basic shape, add the larger surface defects and route major support geometry as necessary. Add support loops (highlighted) around the edges that control the major shapes using a bevel / chamfer operation.

    It should be possible to control the bevel / chamfer placement and behavior with groups or weights. Review the documentation for your application to find the correct settings combination that allows you to reliably place support loops with automated tools. Try to avoid having to manually place or adjust support loops.



    @IronLover64 Overall it looks like you have the right idea. Try to use a little less geometry when blocking out the shapes and use inset operations when creating the screens and desk spaces so there's room around the shapes to add bevels. Also try changing the bevel geometry settings from Sharp Miter Outer to Arc Miter outer.

    Here's an example of what this process could look like.

    Start with a seven segment circle and multiply the segment count using 7*N until there's sufficient geometry. Use a series of inset operations to create the truncated cone in the center of the table. Select a section of the truncated cone's wall and use an inset operation to create the screen's outline. Run another inset operation to create the depth and use the loop cut tool to add support geometry through the screen. Repeat this process to create the desktop on the table below the screen. Split the table into a single 1/7th section. Add bevel weight to the highlighted edges and add a bevel modifier. Merge in any additional details. Spin duplicate or object offset array duplicate the 1/7th section and merge vertices by distance. Add a subdivision modifier.

  • BRTT
    Hello! I have topology issues in some places. I've tried many options. The main thing is to check on a glossy surface. Show how to do it right please!
  • IronLover64
    @Suosa It looks like you're on the right track. If the mesh subdivides cleanly, without any major smoothing artifacts, then it's generally acceptable to use n-gons and triangles in hard surface subdivision models.

    Since this model is going through a sculpting pass it may make more sense to try and add these minor surface defects in ZBrush. A boolean re-meshing and detail sculpting workflow may be more efficient than trying to perfect all of these small details on the subdivision base mesh for the high poly sculpt. If including the larger surface defects in the subdivision mesh is a stylistic choice then just route the support loops around the major shapes and try to constrain any n-gons or triangles to the flat areas.

    Extremely narrow support loops tend to produce a tight edge highlight and although it can look good up close it may be difficult to read from regular view distances. Over sharpened edges can also cause baking issues so consider using a slightly wider and more consistent edge width across the entire shape.

    Below is an example of what this could look like: block out the basic shape, add the larger surface defects and route major support geometry as necessary. Add support loops (highlighted) around the edges that control the major shapes using a bevel / chamfer operation.

    It should be possible to control the bevel / chamfer placement and behavior with groups or weights. Review the documentation for your application to find the correct settings combination that allows you to reliably place support loops with automated tools. Try to avoid having to manually place or adjust support loops.



    @IronLover64 Overall it looks like you have the right idea. Try to use a little less geometry when blocking out the shapes and use inset operations when creating the screens and desk spaces so there's room around the shapes to add bevels. Also try changing the bevel geometry settings from Sharp Miter Outer to Arc Miter outer.

    Here's an example of what this process could look like.

    Start with a seven segment circle and multiply the segment count using 7*N until there's sufficient geometry. Use a series of inset operations to create the truncated cone in the center of the table. Select a section of the truncated cone's wall and use an inset operation to create the screen's outline. Run another inset operation to create the depth and use the loop cut tool to add support geometry through the screen. Repeat this process to create the desktop on the table below the screen. Split the table into a single 1/7th section. Add bevel weight to the highlighted edges and add a bevel modifier. Merge in any additional details. Spin duplicate or object offset array duplicate the 1/7th section and merge vertices by distance. Add a subdivision modifier.

    thanks a lot!
  • FrankPolygon
    Offline / Send Message
    FrankPolygon quad damage
    @BRTT Welcome to Polycount. Consider checking out the forum information and introduction thread.

    Some of the contributing factors that could be causing those subdivision smoothing artifacts are:

    • Shape inconsistencies and undulations in the base mesh.
    • Insufficient supporting geometry around shape intersections and cut outs.
    • Support loop routing and topology flow issues.

    A couple of pages back there's a discussion about routing support loops around cut outs on curved shapes and there's also been a few recent discussions about cylinders intersecting flat surfaces with rounded edges and shape intersections on curved surfaces. The information in these posts should be helpful for resolving the smoothing issues on that shape.

    The basic idea is to use the existing geometry as support for shape transitions and to place intersecting geometry between existing edge segments. This helps the curved geometry retain it's shape, provides support for adjacent shape intersections and leaves a place for additional support loops around the shapes. Additional information can be found in the links above and there's a lot of other great examples in this thread. It's definitely worth skimming through and looking for other solutions to similar shapes.

    There's a few different ways to approach modeling these shapes but here's a basic overview of what the modeling process and topology could look like.


  • Filip5
    Offline / Send Message
    Filip5 polycounter lvl 5
    Hello guys, I would like to ask how to model this mattress. 

    I have tried to do a highpoly of it but it looks so bad...



    Is there a easier way of doing this ?


  • vakdlfjas



    how do i fix this kind of seam? 
    when i do something like this shape ( cylinder rectengle intersection? or something with cylinder )
    sometimes i make them separate objects but sometimes it doesn't work 
    i tried bevel and insert edge loops

  • sacboi
    Offline / Send Message
    sacboi quad damage
    Your example looks nothing like the ref, too high density geometry and a hard edged 'curved' topology even without the benefit of a posted wireframe, is fairly obvious when attempting to generate an assumed cloth like material.

    So spending additional time applying forethought will often pre-empt potential issues from occurring, in the first place. Now firstly assessing the basic shape which at a glance is rectangular plus using minimal vertices, if further revisions are necessary.

    A personal straightforward method, without utilising instancing:

    • Create a plane
    • Extrude into a basic rectangular box
    • Subdivide 4x edge loops - create diagonal edges via Looptools addon (or other DDC app equivalent)
    • Select alternate vertices, slight constrained to axis manual adjustments in order to replicate the diamond shape pattern
    • Shade smooth then apply a Subd modifier (lvl 2)


  • Filip5
    Offline / Send Message
    Filip5 polycounter lvl 5
    sacboi said:
    Your example looks nothing like the ref, too high density geometry and a hard edged 'curved' topology even without the benefit of a posted wireframe, is fairly obvious when attempting to generate an assumed cloth like material.


    @sacboi
     Thank you for reply sacboi, but this shape is fairly simple. I you look closely the mattress shape is somewhat different. I woulndt have a problem if those were straight lines, but these are slightly different.


  • sacboi
    Offline / Send Message
    sacboi quad damage
    "but this shape is fairly simple"

    Oh c'mon put your thinking cap on! regardless whether an edge/shape is straight or curved the example workflow remains the same.

    ...so how would we create a curved edge using sub-division modleling?!

    EDIT:
    Hint - your attempt is almost halfway there, instead of hard edges...
  • Filip5
    Offline / Send Message
    Filip5 polycounter lvl 5
    Here I go with the solution I have used - I did lowpoly for required shape, then duplicated that shape and connected edges. Afterwards I used inset and moved faces constrained to axis. I did a plane shape like this, whichô was quite easy. The harder part came in bending the shape into box shape. I had to do some cleanup, but using symmetry modifier it was pretty straightfroward. At the end I turbosmoothed the model by 1 and applied bevel to edge parts. I mirrored the top part to create enclosed shape. I also had to do some retouch afterwards in photoshop. The aim was to export png images, with relatively close look to mattress. For that reason I decided not to go for normal map or texture with height. Took me a couple of hours, could be probably done in half the time.






  • Filip5
    Offline / Send Message
    Filip5 polycounter lvl 5
    Hey guys, any clues what might cause this texture disortion ? It is also shifted right after exporting it from max, I ve tried to reset x form, collapse the mesh but it did not work


  • Filip5
    Offline / Send Message
    Filip5 polycounter lvl 5

    Solved by collapsing the mesh and reseting x form via utilities tab in max
  • viqhaas
    Hey guys...

    This is really bugging me its really simple but i cant get my head around it?! The image is really self explantory.

    Trying to make a protein shake lid but im struggling on how to sharper the areas highlighted in orange without distorting another area,


  • FrankPolygon
    Offline / Send Message
    FrankPolygon quad damage
    @viqhaas Welcome to Polycount. Consider checking out the forum information and introduction thread.

    Overall it looks like you have a pretty good start with the base mesh and will just need to adjust the support loop routing on attempt 2.

    The vertical deformation in both attempts is caused by the support loops that run off the back of the tabs and down into the hemisphere where they disrupt the even spacing between the segments. There's a few different ways to resolve this so what's going to work best will depend on what the project constraints are.

    If keeping the current mesh density is important then it should be possible to simply terminate the support loops into n-gons at the base of the shape intersection. There will be some minor shape deflection and subtle artifact but it will be limited to the very small transitional area around the shape and it's unlikely that it will be visible when the normal textures are baked down.

    If a greater degree of shape accuracy is important then it will be necessary to increase the number of segments in the hemispherical base mesh so the support loops around the tabs can flow into the existing geometry around the shape intersection.

    The horizontal deformation around the top of the shape intersection is caused by a lack of supporting geometry above the area where the two shapes merge. This can be resolved by simply placing a support loop (directly above the shape intersection) at the bottom of the tabs.

    With subdivision modeling: Preserving the shape of the underlying geometry and either limiting the deformation to the small transitional areas around the shape intersections or consistently averaging out the deformation over a wider area will help reduce the severity of smoothing artifacts. Increasing the amount of geometry tends to increase the overall shape accuracy but also tends to reduce editability.

    This is where balancing shape accuracy and modeling efficiency becomes important. Evaluate how closely the object will be viewed and determine how much geometry is required to accurately hold the shapes. If minor smoothing artifacts aren't visible at normal viewing distances then there's minimal benefit to spending a significant amount of time improving the results. Use the appropriate amount of geometry for the project's goals and the model's use case.

    Here's an example of what this process could look like using a similar mesh density to attempt 2. The existing geometry in the hemisphere acts as support around the base of the intersection and the narrow support loops that sharpen the tabs simply end as n-gons on the surface of the hemisphere. A horizontal support loop is added directly above the shape intersection to control the upward deformation of the shape transition and can be moved up or down to adjust the width of the shape transition.


    Here's another example that shows what this process could look like when geometry density of the hemisphere is increased to match the number of supporting segments in the tabs.



    How much geometry is required depends entirely on how accurate the shapes need to be and how closely the model will be viewed. Triangles and n-gons are fine as long as they aren't causing any major smoothing artifacts at normal viewing distances. It's also helpful to try and maintain a relatively consistent edge width across similar materials since this will unify the shapes and the highlight roll off. Narrower (sharper) support loops read more like metals and machined surfaces while wider (softer) support loops read more like plastics and molded parts.

    The last half dozen pages in this thread have a lot of great examples of common shapes and smoothing artifacts so it's worth taking the time to skim through this thread and see how other artists have solved similar smoothing issues.
  • viqhaas
    wow @FrankPolygon you really are something! 

    I was reading the articles and seen how you helped people, we need more people like you on this earth!!!

    Keep being amazing. Thankyou!
  • martianlion
    Hey there! What would you guys suggest to do if I'd want to model a curved plane with a border in the shape of a specific curve - say some decorative wardrobe door panel. Myself I know two solutions for this: either to create a smooth, curved surface on which I paint my mesh with Quad Draw/Shrinkwrap, or to make the mesh flat, and then bend it with deformers; the second is, to create a basic curved plane, with enough resolution, to cut out from it the shape I want. The things I don't like about the first one is creating these "template" objects as a place holders, and still, I need to create the geometry pretty much by hand anyway. Also fidgeting with deformers, like bend, can be tricky to achieve exactly the shape I want. Second solution is my main go to, but still - it often produces too much geometry in the end, (also mesh is unnecesary dense in some places, and it makes it hard to work with, to achieve a really smooth lines), and still I often might have to do a few attempts to find the right resolution that allows to contain all the details. I wonder if you guys have any tips on how to tackle such shapes either in general, or if you have any directions for estimating the right resolution for doing the cuts (like, idk "look for having three points on every 90 degree curve" etc.)

    Here in example A I cut out the shape from the mesh that holds my main curve form; B was painted with quad draw on a template.
  • FrankPolygon
    Offline / Send Message
    FrankPolygon quad damage
    @Jossy Welcome to Polycount. Consider checking out the forum information and introduction thread.

    The pinching around the corners of the inset shapes is caused by a lack of supporting geometry. Adding bevel weight to the inside corners of the inset shapes and running the support loop around the edges between the existing shapes should solve most of the smoothing artifacts on the existing mesh.

    There's also a minor shape mismatch between the reference image and the base mesh. The tight corners, when combined with the existing edge flow around the shapes, doesn't leave a lot of room for support loops and the topology in this area can become a little too congested. When blocking out the base mesh try to match the shapes as closely as possible while also providing enough room for the support loops to flow around the shapes.

    Below is an example of blocking out the topology for a mesh where the width of the primary features carries over into the secondary features. The support loops are routed around the perimeter of the shapes and into the inside corners.


    Here's what the topology for the rest of the shape could look like. The majority of the support loops in the shape were added using edge weights and a bevel / chamfer modifier.



    Overall the mesh just needs some minor adjustments and it should be fine.

    The last half dozen pages of this thread cover a lot of common shape intersections so it's definitely worth the time to skim through the thread and see how other artists have resolved smoothing issues on shapes similar to the one you're currently working on.
  • Jossy
    FrankPolygon WoW, Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out. This means a lot, I was stuck on this for a couple of days now, trying to figure it out, I'm so happy I found this page. :) I'll check out the links too.
    Thank You again I will be posting my progress. :D 

  • Blaizer
    Offline / Send Message
    Blaizer greentooth
    @viqhaas here's something i did for my modeling blog that it's pretty similar. You can avoid a huge amount of work using mesh projections with similar polycount/number of edges.


Sign In or Register to comment.