there is a single vertex in the top image that, when mesh smoothed, splits into two? why? im welding together the elements and i dont know how to get around the issue. is something wrong with my topology?
there is a single vertex in the top image that, when mesh smoothed, splits into two? why? im welding together the elements and i dont know how to get around the issue. is something wrong with my topology?
Ow ow! Revel! This is exactly what I was trying to achieve!
I was getting to much head aches with this!
Seems like your solution beat it!
I just wonder how you get the inside of star curved as the sphere?
Is there any possibility to get the OBJ of the low poly version to see where you cut and put edges? mostly because I could not get those sharp corners from star points!
Really appreciate your help and the one supported by the other members!
Doguib7 - It's just an extruded in surface from the base sphere, then slightly scale smaller. Also here I'm using Max and before I extruded the star inward, I apply 'Spherify' modifier to make it sphere again after pushing and pulling vertex, not sure whether there is a similar operation on you modeling package.
Hi wirrexx, the first answer is helpful. But for the second answer you gave, I think I need a visual breakdown. Or if you know of a youtube tutorial that shows how to do that.
tommy - it appears less polygon because it doesn't have smoothing group, by default when you create a cylinder it will auto-smooth it but when you shift drag an edge or extrude it won't auto-smooth it. Just apply a smoothing group to those and it'll look fine.
For the third question, offset your smaller cylinder to the desired position around the base cylinder > reset pivot to (0,0,0) > shift-rotate your smaller cylinder and if you're on item mode (not on any sub-object level), you can choose to clone the cylinder to any number you want. Or if you want an easy non-destructible solution, just use this plugin.
Revel-thanks a lot for the plugin link! And the smoothing fixed the problem, so another thanks for that. And I'm going to try your method for the 3rd question, since it sounds like it could be easier than the Array tool.
Doguib7 - It's just an extruded in surface from the base sphere, then slightly scale smaller. Also here I'm using Max and before I extruded the star inward, I apply 'Spherify' modifier to make it sphere again after pushing and pulling vertex, not sure whether there is a similar operation on you modeling package.
Hey guys! I've been looking around for things to model as practice and I was modelling a shelf the other day and came upon this detailed handle.
I live in Portugal and all around me are these antique looking, extremely detailed objects, with carvings.
This one is just a moderate example of it but I looked at the shape and I tought "it's impossible for me, for now".
And I don't want to sculpt it, just plain model it. How would you do it?
I helped a friend by showing him how to do the topology you see in the image below,this wasn't a request made in this thread but I though I could upload the file anyway,maybe it can help someone else
Hello, I'm still new to Zbrush and I'm having a blast with it.
Here's a model I've been working on, it's the female titan from AoT. I can tell that something's off with it, but I just can't put my finger on it(the thing on her cheeks are supposed to be there, though). Any ideas?
It's a shame we don't have this plugin implemented on the forum, it allows you to view all the images from a thread on a seperate page from the forum drop-down menu. Would Make life so much easier than going page-by-page...
does it only show attached images or embeded as well?
Embedded as well, as-long as the image links aren't broken from my knowledge. However they're upgrading the forums with Vanilla Forums, so perhaps there will be some new tools/functions.
Just to let everyone know, I'm mass ripping all the images from this thread, all 231 pages. I'm collecting all images above 200kb and deleting help-request images so that only the useful pics are left. I'll upload everything to Google Docs so everyone can view the images straight from their browser. Some images won't be downloaded since It's difficult to rip images without having to trawl though all the Avatar and thread images...
About 200 images to filter per page so it's taking very long to download the useful images.
Hello, I'm still new to Zbrush and I'm having a blast with it.
Here's a model I've been working on, it's the female titan from AoT. I can tell that something's off with it, but I just can't put my finger on it(the thing on her cheeks are supposed to be there, though). Any ideas?
You're not likely to get much help with this one here, the purpose of this thread is solving complex mechanical shapes with sub-d modeling.
quote: "just reading pages, by calcutlating edges is there a specific formular or do you have to eyeball the edges. "
---
Can't speak for the others,but when doing topology I go half by eye and half by instinct,no formulas at all and no math behind it,basically by doing it enough you get an hang for what works and what's probably not going to work :poly122:
Though if the other uses more solid rules,I would be curious to ear
but i got several problems. i started from a plane and defined the silhouette. after it i added several loops and gave the sword a curvy form with an ffd 3x3 modifier. then i inset all faces and draged them out to get some thickness and used a symetrie modifier to get both sides.
now my problems start:
1. how to get this line in the middle correctly? i get only bad results
2. i think the blade is on the upper side thicker in all directions. how to do this best?
maybe i started totally wrong. would be cool if you could help me decent on this.
@mobpapst: a screen with what you got would help give you directions.
Regarding using the symmetry modifier, before applying it go un the Hierarchy pannel and click "Affect pivot",then on the front view bring your pivot to the place you want it to be the center of the symmetry modifier. Then apply it
As a side note,you may be getting bad resoults in case your pivot is rotated or something,in that case you could apply a ResetXform modifier and collapse the modifier stack before the symmetry
Also lower the weld parameter of the symmetry to 0,001 just in case so to weld only overlapping vertex insted of doing unwanted stuff as it happens sometimes if the value is too high
but i got several problems. i started from a plane and defined the silhouette. after it i added several loops and gave the sword a curvy form with an ffd 3x3 modifier. then i inset all faces and draged them out to get some thickness and used a symetrie modifier to get both sides.
now my problems start:
1. how to get this line in the middle correctly? i get only bad results
2. i think the blade is on the upper side thicker in all directions. how to do this best?
maybe i started totally wrong. would be cool if you could help me decent on this.
thanks guys
The "How do I model the middle part of the blade..." question was already answered like only a couple of pages back. Did you even have a look through?
Also, for the helmet thing, you need as much detail as you need. It's somewhat tautological but basically if the geo you're using is not enough to represent the shape, it means you need more geo. Shape is king, optimization while important must never come at the expense of the final shape.
The real challenge is to fine tune the balance, getting correct forms while keeping the mesh as light as possible.
Trial and error will eventually help you developing an eye and know instinctively the best solution for each situation. There is no substitute for experience.
what about non cylinders? lets say a sphere with a quads thing
Any given curved surface will need to be handled similarly.
Success comes from understanding how it will subdivide, which was covered earlier in this thread in depth by Perna.
The approach you use is somewhat dictated by the end result you're going for.
If the helmet actually has a lot of cut in bits, then yes, start from a larger object, and cut into it. Layout your intended cuts as other objects so you can see where the vertices will lie so you can determine what density of geometry your initial object needs to hold up with the cuts made.
It really is a per object thing.
Also, as for your question about loop termination, the "right" way to do it depends on your final desired result. If you run the loop as you've painted over your curvature will be inconsistent, unless you compensate for it. The first two loops above the visor/face screen bit will be more flat, compared to the rest of the curve of the helmet. It doesn't mean its wrong, if that is what you're going for. If you do want a consistent curve the whole way, then you can either leave it as is or, what's probably better, is terminate the edge in a more natural place. Triangles and Ngons aren't verboten, they just need to be intelligently placed so they subdivide well.
i would like model this knife and gas hob, could you help me please
Excuse me.
I believe one shouldn't expect help before they tried.
The knife has the potential to be challenging, but the gas hob's shapes are basically primitives.
I know modeling can be daunting but unless you fiddle with it yourself, you'll never have a clear understanding of what you're doing.
thing is, I think my topology is all wrong, but I don't know how to manage those sharp edges without all those loops: http://i.imgur.com/yewO5Oh.jpg
tough it still looks OK because its relatively flat.
What has been a breaking point is this other piece which is curved, and as such has a lot of problems on its curved side: http://i.imgur.com/bSEdmcC.jpg
Am I approaching this in the wrong way? is my mesh workable or should I just restart?
Ok so since this is a place for learning and what not and Im in the mood to learn lately. I tried that star in the sphere thing. Its hard. Started with a sphere, 42 sides I believe. Might have been 44 or 46 I cant remember, but I placed the star inside the sphere and added sides till it matched the corners of the star real well, then boolean'd it into the sphere, and edited the vertices and added a little till I got this. Any idea on improvements or if I did it wrong where did I go wrong?
Ok so since this is a place for learning and what not and Im in the mood to learn lately. I tried that star in the sphere thing. Its hard. Started with a sphere, 42 sides I believe. Might have been 44 or 46 I cant remember, but I placed the star inside the sphere and added sides till it matched the corners of the star real well, then boolean'd it into the sphere, and edited the vertices and added a little till I got this. Any idea on improvements or if I did it wrong where did I go wrong?
You're using a UV sphere to begin with, there-in lies your immediate problem. You need to at-least start with a polysphere for a shape of this kind.
That's quite simple actually,image below.
Basically you create a bunch of circular splines with interpolation set to 1 step and you place them by dividing 360° by the numer of circles for each ring,then you do the math for the outer big ring,in this case is 8 steps, and then you convert the big ring to editable poly while attacching together all the small ones,extrude them and subtract from the big circe using Proboolean. At this point is all about cleaning the topology,in the image below I didn't even tried because doesn't require any thinking and is only a tedious time consuming and repetitive task,so I'll leave that to you
But as a tip,if I where to do it seriously I would slice it into 4 so to work only on 1/4,then you put 2 simmetry modifiers on top to complete the shape.
once done,select the borders of the opened holes and do a chamfer to create the supporting edges of the holes,and you're mostly done. :thumbup:
Also you'll probably find out that you need to connect your topology in a "smart" way before doing the border->chamfer step,otherwise it will generate some annoying triangles that you then have to weld by hand wasting even more time,but this things are better to be learned by just making the mistake once,so try
Started with a platonic solid, smoothed and spherified, from there it's 100% quad draw (retopology on a proxy sphere), 1 extrusion and 2 bevels. Takes a few minutes
This is kinda a lame question, but I'm not sure whats the best way to handle this for speed and results.
Basically when dealing with a curved surface, I realize that you need to have a certain amount of density to maintain the shape first then you can worry about making hard edges where needed.
However, this is a basic problem I run into constantly. You have a curved surface where you want to add a couple of support loops to make a hard edge, but it messes up your curve once you do it. Its not super noticeable but I would like to know a way to do this to get perfect results that is fast. It would be even more ideal if someone could tell me how they would do it in modo.
Stuff I try is:
1.a - beveling the edge with "edge shape": square (in modo). Then moving the edges manually so it maintains the curve (doesn't get perfect results.)
1.b - Beveling with "edge shape": smooth. This pinches like crazy and you need to adjust verts to fix curves you don't want and still need to manually move edges to fix pinching.
2. - Add support loop with loop slice and preserve curvature turned on. I get a little pinching but possibly my best results with time and results.
3. - Add support loop and terminate it before reaching the opposite edge (to make the pinching just by the edge you are trying to support as a hard edge). Make quads and have it loop around, and possible smooth it out manually. (this gets really messy and sometimes I start using a smooth brush and things get crazy. lol.
Any advice would be appreciated. I feel like there may be sorta a formula when doing this that I don't have down quite right. -Like block in basic shape, -divide for major curves, -and do "x" to get fast and good results. I don't know, I'm tired of feeling like I brute force this too much and there is probably a smarter way.
Thats great advice! I especially like it because it doesn't over complicate other areas (lets the sud-d do the work) and its super easy to do. Thanks man.
Replies
Thanks ZacD!
Really appreciate it! hope you undestand my english!
Now need to know how to get those narrow star points!
Thanks for the solution!
How do I connect anything 45 degrees sucks. Maybe I just need to think bigger, bigger grid. All fit perfectly into squares you know?
Trying to do something similar to the ODST New Mombasa roads.
there is a single vertex in the top image that, when mesh smoothed, splits into two? why? im welding together the elements and i dont know how to get around the issue. is something wrong with my topology?
To me it sounds like a not welded point!
It's just a star shape boolean-ed to a quad sphere and the rest is just connecting and control flow the edges surrounding it.
I was getting to much head aches with this!
Seems like your solution beat it!
I just wonder how you get the inside of star curved as the sphere?
Is there any possibility to get the OBJ of the low poly version to see where you cut and put edges? mostly because I could not get those sharp corners from star points!
Really appreciate your help and the one supported by the other members!
Really great experience and learning curve!!!
Pura Vida!!!
I think by cleaning the mesh, the problem disappear !
Here you go; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9126412/sphere-star.obj
you could always model the windows on a plane (with equilant in distance) and then use a bend modifier.
second question
Move the pivot points of the top cylinders to match the bottom cylinders pivot and then rotate copy.
For the third question, offset your smaller cylinder to the desired position around the base cylinder > reset pivot to (0,0,0) > shift-rotate your smaller cylinder and if you're on item mode (not on any sub-object level), you can choose to clone the cylinder to any number you want. Or if you want an easy non-destructible solution, just use this plugin.
I really appreciate your help!
Thanks for all your support!
And the OBJ is awesome! Thanks for sharing it!
Greetings!!!!
Really happy to see the results alive!
Still needs more tweaking but going by the right pathway!
Thanks to everyone that supported me!
Huge learning curve!
Cheers!
I live in Portugal and all around me are these antique looking, extremely detailed objects, with carvings.
This one is just a moderate example of it but I looked at the shape and I tought "it's impossible for me, for now".
And I don't want to sculpt it, just plain model it. How would you do it?
"closeup":
.obj download
Here's a model I've been working on, it's the female titan from AoT. I can tell that something's off with it, but I just can't put my finger on it(the thing on her cheeks are supposed to be there, though). Any ideas?
I really appreciate all help given!
My challenge is over!
Cheers!
Go and model something even more harder! Hahaha
That's the attitude Revel! hahahaha
BTW Thanks for helping me with this! I will be knocking your door for the next one!
Pura Vida!!!
http://vbulletin-mods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4472
Embedded as well, as-long as the image links aren't broken from my knowledge. However they're upgrading the forums with Vanilla Forums, so perhaps there will be some new tools/functions.
Just to let everyone know, I'm mass ripping all the images from this thread, all 231 pages. I'm collecting all images above 200kb and deleting help-request images so that only the useful pics are left. I'll upload everything to Google Docs so everyone can view the images straight from their browser. Some images won't be downloaded since It's difficult to rip images without having to trawl though all the Avatar and thread images...
About 200 images to filter per page so it's taking very long to download the useful images.
You're not likely to get much help with this one here, the purpose of this thread is solving complex mechanical shapes with sub-d modeling.
Your primary issue here seems to be a lack of anatomical understanding, you should study some anatomy books and make a thread in the 3D critique forum: http://www.polycount.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42
---
Can't speak for the others,but when doing topology I go half by eye and half by instinct,no formulas at all and no math behind it,basically by doing it enough you get an hang for what works and what's probably not going to work :poly122:
Though if the other uses more solid rules,I would be curious to ear
this is my formula...
Count the amount of faces around the mesh where you want to create a hole is. and add 4 to it..
so 4 sided faces, needs 8 sided cylinder..
12 sided faces need 16..
14 sided faces need 18 sided cylinder
20 pieces needs 24 sided cylinder
i want to model this sword in 3ds max:
but i got several problems. i started from a plane and defined the silhouette. after it i added several loops and gave the sword a curvy form with an ffd 3x3 modifier. then i inset all faces and draged them out to get some thickness and used a symetrie modifier to get both sides.
now my problems start:
1. how to get this line in the middle correctly? i get only bad results
2. i think the blade is on the upper side thicker in all directions. how to do this best?
maybe i started totally wrong. would be cool if you could help me decent on this.
thanks guys
Regarding using the symmetry modifier, before applying it go un the Hierarchy pannel and click "Affect pivot",then on the front view bring your pivot to the place you want it to be the center of the symmetry modifier. Then apply it
As a side note,you may be getting bad resoults in case your pivot is rotated or something,in that case you could apply a ResetXform modifier and collapse the modifier stack before the symmetry
Also lower the weld parameter of the symmetry to 0,001 just in case so to weld only overlapping vertex insted of doing unwanted stuff as it happens sometimes if the value is too high
The "How do I model the middle part of the blade..." question was already answered like only a couple of pages back. Did you even have a look through?
i would like model this knife and gas hob, could you help me please
Also, for the helmet thing, you need as much detail as you need. It's somewhat tautological but basically if the geo you're using is not enough to represent the shape, it means you need more geo. Shape is king, optimization while important must never come at the expense of the final shape.
The real challenge is to fine tune the balance, getting correct forms while keeping the mesh as light as possible.
Trial and error will eventually help you developing an eye and know instinctively the best solution for each situation. There is no substitute for experience.
Any given curved surface will need to be handled similarly.
Success comes from understanding how it will subdivide, which was covered earlier in this thread in depth by Perna.
The approach you use is somewhat dictated by the end result you're going for.
If the helmet actually has a lot of cut in bits, then yes, start from a larger object, and cut into it. Layout your intended cuts as other objects so you can see where the vertices will lie so you can determine what density of geometry your initial object needs to hold up with the cuts made.
It really is a per object thing.
Also, as for your question about loop termination, the "right" way to do it depends on your final desired result. If you run the loop as you've painted over your curvature will be inconsistent, unless you compensate for it. The first two loops above the visor/face screen bit will be more flat, compared to the rest of the curve of the helmet. It doesn't mean its wrong, if that is what you're going for. If you do want a consistent curve the whole way, then you can either leave it as is or, what's probably better, is terminate the edge in a more natural place. Triangles and Ngons aren't verboten, they just need to be intelligently placed so they subdivide well.
I believe one shouldn't expect help before they tried.
The knife has the potential to be challenging, but the gas hob's shapes are basically primitives.
I know modeling can be daunting but unless you fiddle with it yourself, you'll never have a clear understanding of what you're doing.
http://i.imgur.com/QLsutX7.jpg
thing is, I think my topology is all wrong, but I don't know how to manage those sharp edges without all those loops:
http://i.imgur.com/yewO5Oh.jpg
tough it still looks OK because its relatively flat.
What has been a breaking point is this other piece which is curved, and as such has a lot of problems on its curved side:
http://i.imgur.com/bSEdmcC.jpg
Am I approaching this in the wrong way? is my mesh workable or should I just restart?
You're using a UV sphere to begin with, there-in lies your immediate problem. You need to at-least start with a polysphere for a shape of this kind.
That's quite simple actually,image below.
Basically you create a bunch of circular splines with interpolation set to 1 step and you place them by dividing 360° by the numer of circles for each ring,then you do the math for the outer big ring,in this case is 8 steps, and then you convert the big ring to editable poly while attacching together all the small ones,extrude them and subtract from the big circe using Proboolean. At this point is all about cleaning the topology,in the image below I didn't even tried because doesn't require any thinking and is only a tedious time consuming and repetitive task,so I'll leave that to you
But as a tip,if I where to do it seriously I would slice it into 4 so to work only on 1/4,then you put 2 simmetry modifiers on top to complete the shape.
once done,select the borders of the opened holes and do a chamfer to create the supporting edges of the holes,and you're mostly done. :thumbup:
Also you'll probably find out that you need to connect your topology in a "smart" way before doing the border->chamfer step,otherwise it will generate some annoying triangles that you then have to weld by hand wasting even more time,but this things are better to be learned by just making the mistake once,so try
Ok well since I dont know the difference would you mind explaining?
Started with a platonic solid, smoothed and spherified, from there it's 100% quad draw (retopology on a proxy sphere), 1 extrusion and 2 bevels. Takes a few minutes
Basically when dealing with a curved surface, I realize that you need to have a certain amount of density to maintain the shape first then you can worry about making hard edges where needed.
However, this is a basic problem I run into constantly. You have a curved surface where you want to add a couple of support loops to make a hard edge, but it messes up your curve once you do it. Its not super noticeable but I would like to know a way to do this to get perfect results that is fast. It would be even more ideal if someone could tell me how they would do it in modo.
Stuff I try is:
1.a - beveling the edge with "edge shape": square (in modo). Then moving the edges manually so it maintains the curve (doesn't get perfect results.)
1.b - Beveling with "edge shape": smooth. This pinches like crazy and you need to adjust verts to fix curves you don't want and still need to manually move edges to fix pinching.
2. - Add support loop with loop slice and preserve curvature turned on. I get a little pinching but possibly my best results with time and results.
3. - Add support loop and terminate it before reaching the opposite edge (to make the pinching just by the edge you are trying to support as a hard edge). Make quads and have it loop around, and possible smooth it out manually. (this gets really messy and sometimes I start using a smooth brush and things get crazy. lol.
Any advice would be appreciated. I feel like there may be sorta a formula when doing this that I don't have down quite right. -Like block in basic shape, -divide for major curves, -and do "x" to get fast and good results. I don't know, I'm tired of feeling like I brute force this too much and there is probably a smarter way.
Thats great advice! I especially like it because it doesn't over complicate other areas (lets the sud-d do the work) and its super easy to do. Thanks man.
(few tests I did using your method)