...and I think any point or message you were trying to get across yourself died in that very first sentence too.
maybe someone should point that guy to this thread so he gets an idea of the kind of people he'd have to work with, i bet he'd end up punching himself in the face for ever wanting to work in this industry, heh.
A post was started on the Game Career Guide Message Boards, more or less an open letter to the guy. It summed up this thread pretty well. I'm sure he read it and has taken steps to throw himself off a tall building.
A post was started on the Game Career Guide Message Boards, more or less an open letter to the guy. It summed up this thread pretty well. I'm sure he read it and has taken steps to throw himself off a tall building.
I find this insulting, sad and unfortunate and my prediction is that we are only just beginning to see the tip of an iceberg here. Given I had previous 3D experience before throwing $70k at an education, producing quality work while attending school was not a huge challenge for me, keeping focused, motivated and confident throughout was. Many times I considered leaving school to pursue a portfolio on my own and in some cases still kick myself for not having done this when my gut had told me too early on. I can't be so ungrateful though, I am now working. Could I have done the same without school? Can't say for sure it would have been easier. BEFORE I made the decision to go to school for this I reminded myself three things based on my previous knowledge:
A: A degree means very little
B: School will NOT provide me everything I need to get in the door
C: It is cheaper to teach myself, a hell of a lot cheaper!
regardless I still bit the bullet and stuck it through the entire span of the program. I met some amazingly dedicated individuals (looking at you Mr Ott) as well as many who were sadly not, sat through a lot of really worthless courses and sacrificed a lot of time and energy into projects which I ended up scrapping anyways. In the end, school was all about showing your commitment, making contacts and throwing yourself into your own personal boot camp for the future you. At least thats how I see it. I never put all my hope into the school making me an uber artist. Those who did had very sorry expectations.
College grads not finding work out of school is not just specific to this industry at the moment and I expect it to become even worst as more and more people pile into these schools expecting the funnel at the end to suddenly enlarge just for them...You'll simply have to be a bright shiny star these days if you want to get in, and going to school and just doing the minimum requirements ain't gonna cut it. You need to step up a little to be seen in the crowd. Or as this guy so apparently puts it in his article, a massive sausage fest of man meat.
maybe someone should point that guy to this thread so he gets an idea of the kind of people he'd have to work with, i bet he'd end up punching himself in the face for ever wanting to work in this industry, heh.
Maybe you should get him a job at your work place, bring him in, give him a hug, coddle him and show him that the industry can be gentle and kind.
I find this insulting, sad and unfortunate and my prediction is that we are only just beginning to see the tip of an iceberg here. Given I had previous 3D experience before throwing $70k at an education, producing quality work while attending school was not a huge challenge for me, keeping focused, motivated and confident throughout was. Many times I considered leaving school to pursue a portfolio on my own and in some cases still kick myself for not having done this when my gut had told me too early on. I can't be so ungrateful though, I am now working. Could I have done the same without school? Can't say for sure it would have been easier. BEFORE I made the decision to go to school for this I reminded myself three things based on my previous knowledge:
A: A degree means very little
B: School will NOT provide me everything I need to get in the door
C: It is cheaper to teach myself, a hell of a lot cheaper!
regardless I still bit the bullet and stuck it through the entire span of the program. I met some amazingly dedicated individuals (looking at you Mr Ott) as well as many who were sadly not, sat through a lot of really worthless courses and sacrificed a lot of time and energy into projects which I ended up scrapping anyways. In the end, school was all about showing your commitment, making contacts and throwing yourself into your own personal boot camp for the future you. At least thats how I see it. I never put all my hope into the school making me an uber artist. Those who did had very sorry expectations.
College grads not finding work out of school is not just specific to this industry at the moment and I expect it to become even worst as more and more people pile into these schools expecting the funnel at the end to suddenly enlarge just for them...You'll simply have to be a bright shiny star these days if you want to get in, and going to school and just doing the minimum requirements ain't gonna cut it. You need to step up a little to be seen in the crowd. Or as this guy so apparently puts it in his article, a massive sausage fest of man meat.
Do you think you could talk to my mom....she's set of having me go back to school if I can't find a job in the industry this summer. -_-
dale, whether you go back to school or not, realize that if you're learning on your own you need to treat it like a job, spending 40 hour weeks producing if you can. Just because you're not spending the money on school doesn't mean you should be treating your self-study as anything less than full-time. So school will be cheaper, but don't expect it to be easier on the schedule.
Do you think you could talk to my mom....she's set of having me go back to school if I can't find a job in the industry this summer. -_-
You serious? If you still can't deal with your own mum...chances are you prolly have a hard time dealing with perhaps certain people in the industry....
Might as well move out and pour sometime making a portfolio and prove her wrong.
Move out and work on a portfolio sounds like a bit of an oxy moron to me. Move out entails working to support yourself. Instead of leaving in a huff, or sticking around and letting her control your life. You could talk to her, hopefully all your years on this earth haven't ravaged her sanity so much that she'll listen to reason.
Careful or you'll find yourself on pliang's road quicker then expected.
Diplomatic but firm.
Mature but not clinical.
Flexible and understanding, yet stick up for yourself and your goals.
It's true its your life to live, but value her input chances are she isn't trying to control you, but make sure that you're well taken care of, like she's been doing for a good long while.
I'm not sure they make a PC/cigarette adapter... so keep the fist waving and finger pointing to a min =P
Maybe you should get him a job at your work place, bring him in, give him a hug, coddle him and show him that the industry can be gentle and kind.
No, but if someone comes whining like that, retorting with such comments is just...well, immature ? i can come up with more keywords if you'd like.
Thankfully some young freshman with more credibility was able to give him proper comments in the other forum, since some of our seasoned veterans (?) here seem to suffer too much from a deficit in social skills to handle these kind of things properly.
Move out and work on a portfolio sounds like a bit of an oxy moron to me. Move out entails working to support yourself. Instead of leaving in a huff, or sticking around and letting her control your life. You could talk to her, hopefully all your years on this earth haven't ravaged her sanity so much that she'll listen to reason.
Careful or you'll find yourself on pliang's road quicker then expected.
Diplomatic but firm.
Mature but not clinical.
Flexible and understanding, yet stick up for yourself and your goals.
It's true its your life to live, but value her input chances are she isn't trying to control you, but make sure that you're well taken care of, like she's been doing for a good long while.
I'm not sure they make a PC/cigarette adapter... so keep the fist waving and finger pointing to a min =P
Lol...the point I was trying to make was that he should definitely reason like Vig said and discuss the options and perhaps I was exaggerating a bit and giving the wrong signal...
May I also say that his mum prolly just thought that going back to school means sticking up to his best interest.
I can understand his frustration, but I have no sympathy for him really. It's either put up or shut up. I've been out of school for almost 2 years now (4 yrs. at Art Inst. of Atlanta) and I still havent found a job in the field. I'm doing AutoCAD work at a pretty decent company to make ends meet, all while trying to further better myself...artistically and on personal level. Dude just needs to go back to the drawing board...simple as that really.
And even though the comments here seem kinda harsh...a lot of truth can be found in here. Just gotta man up about it and have thick skin.
Brian, Brian, Brian. What ever were we going to do with you? Never listened to advice about texturing or modeling, and neither did his roommate.
They just kept making the same damned mistakes on the simplest models, like leaving polies inside objects, having a ridiculously high amount of polies on a model, or loops that were completely unnecessary. Through the first semester I just got the feel that he wasn't into modeling because it was modeling. It just seemed like a hobby for him, not a career choice.
Were you a teacher or were you in a class with him?
Originally Posted by Spark
Really after teaching for the last year I noticed this, there are those that do and those that bitch.
Do you think you could talk to my mom....she's set of having me go back to school if I can't find a job in the industry this summer. -_-
I have been out of high-school for 2 years after i graduated i applied to AI in vancouver after reading some reviews about the school i decided to trying learning the software myself.
I think i have done pretty good for myself for jumping in 2 years ago, The first year was a joke though i had a full-time job, I quit my job 3 months ago and started working my ass off.
My parents are traditional Immigrant parents to them after highschool you have to go to uni , and it doesent help that my older brother is i studying to become a doctor.
For the past 2 years i have been getting bitched at to go to school and although annoying i know my parents want the best for me, but i know what i want to do in life and no one can ever change my mind, just sit your parents down and tell them whats, up i am sure they'll understand.
1. If this school was teaching the useage of the tools within applications and not the skill to actually make decent artwork then fair enough but if the shoe is on the other foot then the school should be shut and all current students money refunded along with an apology letter for the poor teaching standard.
2. His work is so bad that I haven't ever seen worse within many absolute beginners, all this guy had to do along his 'learning curve' was to do a little search and see that everyone on the planet that's into 3d and has a portfolio is better than him.
That was harsh I know but so is reality, you see I used to think I was great in 3d until I opened my eyes, only when that happened and I accepted the fact that I was crap did I start to get better...maybe he will see the light and not dwell on inadaquacies but defeat them?
Wow, I have two points.
you see I used to think I was great in 3d until I opened my eyes, only when that happened and I accepted the fact that I was crap did I start to get better.
you my friend hit the nail on the head and split it in two!
In all honesty, I have never seen a 3d/art forum with so many PMS-driven posters. : What's with all the bad attitudes and insults? Are you 12?
(Not referring to anyone in particular)
I guess you're refering to your dumpster feud. Polycount is the way it is, because the people who post here don't appreciate the little white lies of politeness. Go over to Conceptart and open any post with mediocre art and it's all sunshine and puppydogs, and pats-on-the back for a job-well done. SKILL IMPROVEMENT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! If noone ever tells you how bad you suck in unequovical terms, you will never see the light and fix your mistakes.
Srsly, though, hasn't this thread gone on long enough? Dude couldn't cut the mustard; fuck him. As has been said before, this is not a problem found only in game-art programs/communities. There were SO MANY slackers in my program at the university. They force the teachers to dumb courses down, they get a free pass because of how badly their earned grades reflect on the teacher and course, and, worst of all, they shit on the reputation of the school when they get out and show just how useless they (and the school) are. There's this one asshole who got a job at an architect's office down the block, and he was such a poor employee that they decided to NEVER hire anyone from our school again.
I guess you're refering to your dumpster feud. Polycount is the way it is, because the people who post here don't appreciate the little white lies of politeness. Go over to Conceptart and open any post with mediocre art and it's all sunshine and puppydogs, and pats-on-the back for a job-well done. SKILL IMPROVEMENT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! If noone ever tells you how bad you suck in unequovical terms, you will never see the light and fix your mistakes.
Exactly, man.
If your dog or cat takes a crap all over your carpet, are you supposed to pat him on the head and say, 'Good job Mr. Cat! Maybe crap outside next time?' :poly134:
No. You tell him that he is FAIL, and you're on him for at least a week straight prodding the little bastard till he gets the idea.
Don't try this on a cat, though. They don't like to admit they fail. They are also too busy plotting the assassination of their tormentors to pay you any attention.
Don't try this on a cat, though. They don't like to admit they fail. They are also too busy plotting the assassination of their tormentors to pay you any attention.
Damn Straight!
Thought a little dash of cat ego and deviousness wouldn't necessarily hurt to have in this industry.
We have come to the conclusion that the artist clearly prefers pursuing a career in retail services at Best Buy with no chances of ever getting back into games as long he remains delusional about the industry.
Why should companies hire people who absolutely have no drive to get their act together once in a while...
And his web design wasn't that good to begin with either...and that's not the point.
Then how will you up your post count? The new forum has a feature that shows you how many posts you've made in a thread. Compare that to the number of insightful posts you've made. Divide by zero. Save your progress.
I've spoken @ a few schools now and the first thing I tell them when they ask for some advice is to throw all the work they've done from the courses they're taking and do their portfolio again.
I've been giving the same advice to friends and local students I've met...and myself honestly. Whatever has been done in the past, if it got you nowhere...toss it. Let go if it. Start over with a new perspective on the task at hand.
Too many coming out of today's schools, believe the little knowledge they have of the functionality of creation tools (and not enough of the theory and guidelines of games) will land them any big name job. They apply to such places as Valve and Blizzard with illusions of grandeur, or blind faith...and are shocked to receive no response. That sounds relevant to the topic of this thread. One person, ignorant of his own inabilities, unable to take the small steps up a long challenging staircase of frustration. There are many people like him. He was simply shouting the loudest at the time, unwilling to blame himself.
The barriers that people may find in the way of their dreams. are there to separate the people who 'sort of want it', from the ones who REALLY REALLY want it.
He won't even put enough effort to cut out a coke logo to put on a poster, and instead just square cuts it out and pastes it. I guess no one was supposed to notice?
I've never seen a toilet with large veins.
It looks like he just goes to google image search and finds a bunch of images to paste together.
His models are all over the place. 26 polys for a soap, 3000 for a coffee table? And it doesn't even have any shape.
The glass on the popcorn machine is just some fill pattern he got somewhere, and applied an alpha channel to.
yeah turns out all the bitching and moaning got him a job at blizzard
first off, you are so full of shit dude, no amount bitching an moaning can get you into a studio like that. especially not with a crappy as portfolio like his.
not only that but have you seen his website lately, he bailed the fuck out.
second what really gets me boiled about brian nathanson is the quote he has on his main page now, "imagination is more important that knowledge." I'm not saying that i don't believe that, what my problem is that he is just using that to hide behind so he doesn't have to work hard, like every other person just LOVES to use that quote
Replies
...and I think any point or message you were trying to get across yourself died in that very first sentence too.
maybe someone should point that guy to this thread so he gets an idea of the kind of people he'd have to work with, i bet he'd end up punching himself in the face for ever wanting to work in this industry, heh.
Do you have a link to it handy?
A: A degree means very little
B: School will NOT provide me everything I need to get in the door
C: It is cheaper to teach myself, a hell of a lot cheaper!
regardless I still bit the bullet and stuck it through the entire span of the program. I met some amazingly dedicated individuals (looking at you Mr Ott) as well as many who were sadly not, sat through a lot of really worthless courses and sacrificed a lot of time and energy into projects which I ended up scrapping anyways. In the end, school was all about showing your commitment, making contacts and throwing yourself into your own personal boot camp for the future you. At least thats how I see it. I never put all my hope into the school making me an uber artist. Those who did had very sorry expectations.
College grads not finding work out of school is not just specific to this industry at the moment and I expect it to become even worst as more and more people pile into these schools expecting the funnel at the end to suddenly enlarge just for them...You'll simply have to be a bright shiny star these days if you want to get in, and going to school and just doing the minimum requirements ain't gonna cut it. You need to step up a little to be seen in the crowd. Or as this guy so apparently puts it in his article, a massive sausage fest of man meat.
Maybe you should get him a job at your work place, bring him in, give him a hug, coddle him and show him that the industry can be gentle and kind.
Do you think you could talk to my mom....she's set of having me go back to school if I can't find a job in the industry this summer. -_-
You serious? If you still can't deal with your own mum...chances are you prolly have a hard time dealing with perhaps certain people in the industry....
Might as well move out and pour sometime making a portfolio and prove her wrong.
Careful or you'll find yourself on pliang's road quicker then expected.
Diplomatic but firm.
Mature but not clinical.
Flexible and understanding, yet stick up for yourself and your goals.
It's true its your life to live, but value her input chances are she isn't trying to control you, but make sure that you're well taken care of, like she's been doing for a good long while.
I'm not sure they make a PC/cigarette adapter... so keep the fist waving and finger pointing to a min =P
No, but if someone comes whining like that, retorting with such comments is just...well, immature ? i can come up with more keywords if you'd like.
Thankfully some young freshman with more credibility was able to give him proper comments in the other forum, since some of our seasoned veterans (?) here seem to suffer too much from a deficit in social skills to handle these kind of things properly.
As you were.
Lol...the point I was trying to make was that he should definitely reason like Vig said and discuss the options and perhaps I was exaggerating a bit and giving the wrong signal...
May I also say that his mum prolly just thought that going back to school means sticking up to his best interest.
Such utter nonsense reply...
(Not referring to anyone in particular)
And even though the comments here seem kinda harsh...a lot of truth can be found in here. Just gotta man up about it and have thick skin.
It's an internet forum. 50% of all forum posts are required by law to include bitching and/or insults. Pretty sure that's also the 11th commandment.
QFI
(Quoted For Irony)
Were you a teacher or were you in a class with him?
QFH - Quoted For Hilariousness.
I have been out of high-school for 2 years after i graduated i applied to AI in vancouver after reading some reviews about the school i decided to trying learning the software myself.
I think i have done pretty good for myself for jumping in 2 years ago, The first year was a joke though i had a full-time job, I quit my job 3 months ago and started working my ass off.
My parents are traditional Immigrant parents to them after highschool you have to go to uni , and it doesent help that my older brother is i studying to become a doctor.
For the past 2 years i have been getting bitched at to go to school and although annoying i know my parents want the best for me, but i know what i want to do in life and no one can ever change my mind, just sit your parents down and tell them whats, up i am sure they'll understand.
1. If this school was teaching the useage of the tools within applications and not the skill to actually make decent artwork then fair enough but if the shoe is on the other foot then the school should be shut and all current students money refunded along with an apology letter for the poor teaching standard.
2. His work is so bad that I haven't ever seen worse within many absolute beginners, all this guy had to do along his 'learning curve' was to do a little search and see that everyone on the planet that's into 3d and has a portfolio is better than him.
That was harsh I know but so is reality, you see I used to think I was great in 3d until I opened my eyes, only when that happened and I accepted the fact that I was crap did I start to get better...maybe he will see the light and not dwell on inadaquacies but defeat them?
you my friend hit the nail on the head and split it in two!
I guess you're refering to your dumpster feud. Polycount is the way it is, because the people who post here don't appreciate the little white lies of politeness. Go over to Conceptart and open any post with mediocre art and it's all sunshine and puppydogs, and pats-on-the back for a job-well done. SKILL IMPROVEMENT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! If noone ever tells you how bad you suck in unequovical terms, you will never see the light and fix your mistakes.
Srsly, though, hasn't this thread gone on long enough? Dude couldn't cut the mustard; fuck him. As has been said before, this is not a problem found only in game-art programs/communities. There were SO MANY slackers in my program at the university. They force the teachers to dumb courses down, they get a free pass because of how badly their earned grades reflect on the teacher and course, and, worst of all, they shit on the reputation of the school when they get out and show just how useless they (and the school) are. There's this one asshole who got a job at an architect's office down the block, and he was such a poor employee that they decided to NEVER hire anyone from our school again.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Exactly, man.
If your dog or cat takes a crap all over your carpet, are you supposed to pat him on the head and say, 'Good job Mr. Cat! Maybe crap outside next time?' :poly134:
No. You tell him that he is FAIL, and you're on him for at least a week straight prodding the little bastard till he gets the idea.
Don't try this on a cat, though. They don't like to admit they fail. They are also too busy plotting the assassination of their tormentors to pay you any attention.
Not gonna happen.
Damn Straight!
Thought a little dash of cat ego and deviousness wouldn't necessarily hurt to have in this industry.
Cathat
Why should companies hire people who absolutely have no drive to get their act together once in a while...
And his web design wasn't that good to begin with either...and that's not the point.
Thread ought to be closed now...
Then how will you up your post count? The new forum has a feature that shows you how many posts you've made in a thread. Compare that to the number of insightful posts you've made. Divide by zero. Save your progress.
I've been giving the same advice to friends and local students I've met...and myself honestly. Whatever has been done in the past, if it got you nowhere...toss it. Let go if it. Start over with a new perspective on the task at hand.
Too many coming out of today's schools, believe the little knowledge they have of the functionality of creation tools (and not enough of the theory and guidelines of games) will land them any big name job. They apply to such places as Valve and Blizzard with illusions of grandeur, or blind faith...and are shocked to receive no response. That sounds relevant to the topic of this thread. One person, ignorant of his own inabilities, unable to take the small steps up a long challenging staircase of frustration. There are many people like him. He was simply shouting the loudest at the time, unwilling to blame himself.
The barriers that people may find in the way of their dreams. are there to separate the people who 'sort of want it', from the ones who REALLY REALLY want it.
Ofcourse, I don't want to deny Johny the right to make an insightful post.
You can count yourself lucky that Harl isn't around (as much) he'd probably run your ass up a flag pole...
He won't even put enough effort to cut out a coke logo to put on a poster, and instead just square cuts it out and pastes it. I guess no one was supposed to notice?
I've never seen a toilet with large veins.
It looks like he just goes to google image search and finds a bunch of images to paste together.
His models are all over the place. 26 polys for a soap, 3000 for a coffee table? And it doesn't even have any shape.
The glass on the popcorn machine is just some fill pattern he got somewhere, and applied an alpha channel to.
He's a bit lazy, and unimaginative.
So I decided to not post a reply and keep from kicking the dead horse any further.
Good job
yeah turns out all the bitching and moaning got him a job at blizzard
No its a little late! :P
haha, revive this thread if there is any news of him.
first off, you are so full of shit dude, no amount bitching an moaning can get you into a studio like that. especially not with a crappy as portfolio like his.
not only that but have you seen his website lately, he bailed the fuck out.
http://bndesigns.org/default.aspx
http://site.bmnathanson.com/Portfolio.html
i'll leave that point alone
second what really gets me boiled about brian nathanson is the quote he has on his main page now, "imagination is more important that knowledge." I'm not saying that i don't believe that, what my problem is that he is just using that to hide behind so he doesn't have to work hard, like every other person just LOVES to use that quote
I was hoping there was some new article by this dude.