recent thoughts about 9/11
polycounter lvl 19
What do you think of these?:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6621056445411384184&q="loose+change+Part+1"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7721485671999456333&q="loose+change+Part+2"
(I find them interesting and have summised) As the majority suspect, 9/11 was a farce. Theres a mountain of websites that go through the facts step by step, pointing out these main facts:
1. The twin towers were rigged to be demolished a few weeks before 9/11. This was carried out by forcing companies to not enter the buildings by cutting off the power supplies under the excuse of "maintenance". More exactly: "we're updating the internet lines". The security firm for the WTC was run by bushes cousin. The cameras of the WTC were shut off on 9/11... the third building also collapsed, of it's own accord.
2. Clear photographic evidence of both jets having rocket launchers on their under bellies. Additional photographic evidence of these rockets being fired moments before impact.
3. Clear photographic evidence of the demolition triggers being set off before and during the collapse (registering 2 on the Richter scale). Additional testimonies from firemen about the lobbies of the buildings, actually seeing damage these charges made.
4. Titanium and Iron melt at a much higher temperature than airliner fuel.
5. most of the airliner fuel burnt up in the air on the second impact, as that huge fireball showed. So it would have been impossible to burn the building causing it to crumble to the ground.
6. previous skyscraper fires rage for days and the buildings don't fall.
7. the pentagon crash was a hole and photographic evidence shows the remains are not from a commercial liner. Nor the impact shape. Further evidence that this was the only reinforced area of the pentagon and commercial liners crumble on impact, not punch through many feet of steel.
8. the 9/11 investigation was very late, evidence was omitted, no one was held accountable.
9. many of the terrorists killed in the crashes are still alive and well.
10. the phone calls from the planes were faked. This is indisputable because it's not possible to call on your mobile from a plane at 36 thousand feet.
11. the usama video is fake. He wears a gold ring and watch, which are forbidden by his own religion. Also he is a lefty, but in the video hes using his right hand to write etc.
I guess what we need to think about is; who is responsible? Are there any steps being taken to prosecute the organisers of this lie? How long will it take? Is bush directly connected or is this something larger and unimaginable?
Dreafully; what really happened to all of these people that were on the real flights?
I for one feel like I've been lied to. I'm sure this is the general consensus. How we can base two wars on ONE PASSPORT that some how miraculously survived TITANUIM melting fires, and floated into the hands of an FBI agent at ground zero... is somewhat beyond belief.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6621056445411384184&q="loose+change+Part+1"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7721485671999456333&q="loose+change+Part+2"
(I find them interesting and have summised) As the majority suspect, 9/11 was a farce. Theres a mountain of websites that go through the facts step by step, pointing out these main facts:
1. The twin towers were rigged to be demolished a few weeks before 9/11. This was carried out by forcing companies to not enter the buildings by cutting off the power supplies under the excuse of "maintenance". More exactly: "we're updating the internet lines". The security firm for the WTC was run by bushes cousin. The cameras of the WTC were shut off on 9/11... the third building also collapsed, of it's own accord.
2. Clear photographic evidence of both jets having rocket launchers on their under bellies. Additional photographic evidence of these rockets being fired moments before impact.
3. Clear photographic evidence of the demolition triggers being set off before and during the collapse (registering 2 on the Richter scale). Additional testimonies from firemen about the lobbies of the buildings, actually seeing damage these charges made.
4. Titanium and Iron melt at a much higher temperature than airliner fuel.
5. most of the airliner fuel burnt up in the air on the second impact, as that huge fireball showed. So it would have been impossible to burn the building causing it to crumble to the ground.
6. previous skyscraper fires rage for days and the buildings don't fall.
7. the pentagon crash was a hole and photographic evidence shows the remains are not from a commercial liner. Nor the impact shape. Further evidence that this was the only reinforced area of the pentagon and commercial liners crumble on impact, not punch through many feet of steel.
8. the 9/11 investigation was very late, evidence was omitted, no one was held accountable.
9. many of the terrorists killed in the crashes are still alive and well.
10. the phone calls from the planes were faked. This is indisputable because it's not possible to call on your mobile from a plane at 36 thousand feet.
11. the usama video is fake. He wears a gold ring and watch, which are forbidden by his own religion. Also he is a lefty, but in the video hes using his right hand to write etc.
I guess what we need to think about is; who is responsible? Are there any steps being taken to prosecute the organisers of this lie? How long will it take? Is bush directly connected or is this something larger and unimaginable?
Dreafully; what really happened to all of these people that were on the real flights?
I for one feel like I've been lied to. I'm sure this is the general consensus. How we can base two wars on ONE PASSPORT that some how miraculously survived TITANUIM melting fires, and floated into the hands of an FBI agent at ground zero... is somewhat beyond belief.
Replies
Anyhow, I hightly suspect your majority is a minority. I wouldn't put it past the government to do such a thing but I believe the amount of reaching you are doing in coming up with some of those conclusions is just that a reach.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6621056445411384184&q="loose+change+Part+1"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7721485671999456333&q="loose+change+Part+2"
engineered alongside bin laden and his families wealth so they could hide a secret army of flying monkeys that will
attack washington if we try to vote bush out of power?
I think I will wait to watch Oliver Stone's version, I expect it to be better researched.
r.
People will always find blame even where none exists.
I was hoping that everyone has done thier own bit of research instead of listening to the offical story (which is as good as fiction)
Also, where are these dead terrorists who you say are alive and well? I guess you've got some "irrefutable photographic evidence" for that, too. And hey, photos can be altered, you know. You can usually discover an alteration to a photo, but even the experts take a while to do this.
I recently stumbled upon a website loaded with 911 footage, many of which I hadn't seen before. Some from firemen within the buildings. A few cameras captured footage of a small object flashing across the screen just as the 2nd jet collided. All different angles, all capturing the same object racing at the same speed at the same moment. Like a missle.
It's amazing to look back on that day, watching it unfold, and remembering all the events that have led to today. Iraq wasn't a buzzword then. Bin laden is still alive. America continues to raise the debt ratio, and many here at home are still suffering.
Putting all these pieces together, it simply doesn't make sense. Something big is taking place, and we're being misled. It's anyone's guess, and any guess can easily be considered a conspiracy theory.
Every single major event has a conspiracy theory. Every single major death has a conspiracy theory. Cobain was murdered, elvis was picked up by aliens, Jim Morrison is still alive, JFK bullshit, tupac is still alive, etc
The thing that worries me is that it's not just a few people who trust these points outlined above, it's thousands of websites, all trying to prove the same thing. It's less of a conspiracy and more of a "WTF happened here then?"
Dekard: no one is asking you to lock this thread, lets talk about it point by point instead of stirring. Also, I'm not sure about some of these things, until I saw these videos.
Why couldn't it be a more sane plot, of 19 hijackers hired by the government to fly the planes into the buildings or two massive truck bombs... while the towers were rigged.. it's just that way with anything, there's an equal/opposite reaction.. some celeb flashes a boob on tv, we can't even show buttcracks on tv...
There are alot of plausible explanations on the plate on how the government may have had a hand in the tragedies of 9/11, but those aren't the most sane ones.. The truth unfortunately usually lies somewhere in the grey middle area and you have to find that yourself as it's not something people turn into, nor get paid to show.
Thomas Jefferson said: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
My only concern is that there is in fact evidence of situations that have no clear explanation.
seriously thought people need to focus on the problems at hand
edit: ok so out of curiousity i watched the videos, while some of it smelled like bullshit certain evidence was quite interesting, i suggest you guys to watch it just out of interest.
seriously thought people need to focus on the problems at hand
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pick one
I didn't believe the WMD stuff for a second, and all I had to do was watch CNN and use my brain. The government is only interested in tricking 75% of people, and they don't care about the 25% that is educated and intelligent. After all, the press is happy to take government press releases and site them as 'high-level government sources', so the feds don't even have to worry about the ignorant masses being educated by the media.
That is not to say I believe anything about 9/11. That isn't the point. The point is that I don't care, and there is no way to know for sure. People here know better than most that video can be faked, sources invented, etc.
The real threat to the US is that we will fall behind in technology, and with the people coming out of highschool/college now, I really don't think we have much chance of staying on top. Right now people in Asia are making discoveries in stem cell research that could have easily been made by US researchers, if the americans were allowed to do their job. The current antics in government are going to come back to bite them in the ass no matter how many votes or jet fighters they have.
First, that "flash" that he describes is a cloud of dust as the front of the plane impacts the cement pillars.
Second, the "missile" underneith the plane, is just a shadow. He compares the poorly lit, bad quality image, to a well light undercarriage shot of another boeing jet. There is no defined shape of anything under that jet.
Next, the flash again. The flash can be caused by the spark of metal hitting stone. When he goes back and forth by frames, you can see the plane is already hitting when the flash appears. Yet he states that the flash was first. Also, why would they fire a missile first anyways? What good would that do? You think the jet wouldn't be enough?
As for the 'eye witness' accounts, there are always cases of people seeing something in correctly. Take for instance a hit and run. The police will ask witnesses what kind of car it is and one will say it was a red civic while another will say it was a gray jetta. It's easy to place in wtiness accounts that fit your needs.
So, I dont understand where that argument comes from.
Conspiracy theories are to me, entertainment. Therefore I only read up on ones concerning aliens, bigfoot, top secret military aircraft & Area 51.
So. While the videos Hawken linked may have some compelling data, and I'll watch them, I am no more convinced by their story than I am by the story handed me by my Government.
The problem is it's incredibly hard to get any objective evidence unless you were actually there yourself, filming everything with a videocamera or something of that nature. All the opinions on the internet don't add up to anything... just saying stuff like "you can't make phone calls from a plane, OMG the phone calls were bogus!" is total mindlessness on your part - evidently you CAN make phone calls from a plane (which, if you'd actually attempted to do some independent research, you'd know), so that point's out the window straight away... which instantly throws all your other so-called "facts" into doubt.
As soon as you have a lot of solid information and true facts backing up your wild assertions, I might start to take heed.
Scott
He also fails to mention the way the floors are constructed when he's making his argument about the building elements. He mentions the steel and concrete amound, but doesn't mention that each floor is held by plates. These plates have been discussed since 9/11 and have been stated as the cause of the collapse. These plates melted under the heat of the fire. That's also why OTHER building havent' collapsed after being on fire for 17 hours. They are constructed differently.
In addition, the fuel is not all burnt up in that cloud you see at impact. That is the fire and smoke being forced out with the air pressurized by the planes impact.
The only thing that holds any water in this, and held water in the past was the Pentagon. I had thought that it may have been a missile that was targeted for the plane that crashed in PA, but it malfunctioned and hit the Pentagon. But even then, it would have been a stretch.
Again though, he wants to take witness accounts to prove his earlier point about the jet's symbols, yet he proves how inconsistant eye witness reports can be when he refers to the pentagon.
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"whoa, whoa whao back up did you see that, yeah that right there, missles on the bottom of the aircraft"
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No I didn't see it, the footage is crap and your compression rate is too low to see anything. I think I see gremlins on the wings ripping wiring out, yes I SEE THEM CLEARLY!
LOL, was William Shatner on that plane?
shiiiit. I could make a documentary of how our last pope personally worshipped satan for the last 20 years and has hid a nuclear device in osama's underpants if I wanted to. Do you actually think any of their "facts" are backed up? Is there anyone here who couldn't composite anything they wanted into the 9/11 footage?
I heard Tupac engineered 9/11.. I wonder if you also believe Bush rigged the levies in New Orleans to kill the black man..
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hahahahah
I thought that was hilarious
I used to think all these conspiracies could possibly be true, then I realised like someone else had just mentioned, it would take an ASSLOAD of people to organize this project, and I highly doubt it would stay this "underground".
11. the usama video is fake. He wears a gold ring and watch, which are forbidden by his own religion. Also he is a lefty, but in the video hes using his right hand to write etc.
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Not going to comment on it in general (it a bit more complicated than what either the gouvernment or this says), but this 'fact' stikes me as a bit strange.
Why would one believe that all of 9/11 was set up and yet the same time believe they had to fake a Osama video, if they could just get the real guy (which is another conspiracy theory)
Next, the flash again. The flash can be caused by the spark of metal hitting stone. When he goes back and forth by frames, you can see the plane is already hitting when the flash appears. Yet he states that the flash was first. Also, why would they fire a missile first anyways? What good would that do? You think the jet wouldn't be enough?
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In the high resolution version of the video you can clearly see the flash when the nose of the jet is about 10 feet from even touching the building. The version that Hawken posted is of a horrible quality and compression, which is why the plane just appears to be a blur. Of course, I imagine such a large object traveling upwards of 300 MPH is going to generate a serious pocket of air in front of the nose, which is likely the cause of the "flash" before impact.
Any accusations that the government may have been involved, or that they may have known what was going to happen and intentionally allowed it to happen, are going to immediately be disregarded as "wild conspiracy theories." But they may not be as far-fetched as you think; in the past, the US government has drawn up official plans to carry out violent acts of terrorism against US citizens in order to incite a war. The plans were eventually rejected, thank god, but before they were rejected they were approved by all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Something to think about.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662
The planes were remote controled, a missile was used, the towers were rigged to fall on cue when the planes struck them, no plane hit the pentagon.
If your a starter do like me and many others conspiracy nuts, and LURK for 1 - 2 - 3 years over at
http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1821
the truth is that the U.S attacked the U.S on 911
the only truth here is that some of you want it to be true so bad you can taste it!
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There are also flying monkeys on the moon. Can you taste that ?
Link to a collection 911 videos with better compression
http://212.87.68.69/phpwebsite/index.php...S_Document_id=1
Instead they made a lot of accusations and then pumped people up for war and attacked and not a single one of there accusations was true . My personal feeling at this point is that the Goverment is riddled with unqualified people such as the moron who was running Fema who don't get along and play power games . Goverment people allowed the terrorists to do what they did but I really don't think they were involved ...to many whistle blowers .
Some of you have been fooled.
For more info:
http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewforum.php?f=1
But they may not be as far-fetched as you think; in the past, the US government has drawn up official plans to carry out violent acts of terrorism against US citizens in order to incite a war. The plans were eventually rejected, thank god, but before they were rejected they were approved by all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Something to think about.
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Could you please post some evidence on this? Sounds interesting to me.
and right above he says he's certain it was the CIA who blew some junk up
w00t
Duh dude. Click on the link
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Whoops, didnt see the link somehow
Thanks
So, what about all the people that died on the flights that never crashed into the WTC or the Pentagon? What happened to them? Were they all in on the conspiracy and are now living comfortably in Cuba?
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yea, watching the movie i wondered about this as well.. What happened to them? not explained i guess..
I dont care much for the "planes shootin missiles" ideas but i really think the pentagon crash is odd. I mean what the.. Where is the godamn plane? its such a small hole
I need a "911wasnotalie" site so i can get some info from both sides of the story hehe
There are two n's in "government", and "there" is not possessive
Looking at history, is it possible that the US government could have some part in the cause of the attacks?
Is it possible for this adminstration to deceive its people?
Would this government use a national tragedy to push its own agenda?
Would they ever use corporations to influence top media outlets?
Would the government ever overtake a rival country in order to place obedient leadship in its place?
Would the government ever break international law to ensure stability of its economy and resources?
Can you answer "no" to these questions with 100% confidence that you're correct? Those are the questions that provoke the "what if's". Yes, many of the theories are bullshit, and most likely 100% wrong. Perhaps it's just enough nonsense to distract of from ever searching for the truth. Just like anything you'll hear on fox news. Two extremes that lead to no solutions.
Sadly, the object I mentioned in my first post of this thread, isn't the missle pointed out from that website. I'm surprised they've said nothing about it.
http://www.911wasalie.com/phpwebsite/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=16