[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to fly off topic, but the amount of ignorance is ridiculous.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sonic: you've made your view perfectly clear before that you believe global warming to be a media perpetuated myth.
We've all had this argument before on this board many times so this is pretty tiresome.
You don't know it aint happening, and us believers can't prove it either. But the folks assuming it's happening and wanting us to do something about it are ignorant?! Now c'mon man, surely you can appreciate the vicious irony in that statement. If it's a reality, and weve fucked the planet due to keeping our head in the sands, thats pretty fucking ignorant I'd say.
CNN news - You could not find something more independent, isn't it.
I've found quickly few articles for You (as You did )- to see the other side of this problem.
"Really, for the folks that are doing work on hurricanes, there isn't a debate (about global warming)," ... but Many climatologists disagree !
"Global climate change is happening. The environment in which these hurricanes form is clearly changing," said Kevin Trenberth, a climatologist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado. He is also a lead author of the next major UN report on climate change, due in 2007.
But a new study in the journal Nature found that hurricanes and typhoons have become stronger and longer-lasting over the past 30 years. These upswings correlate with a rise in sea surface temperatures.
I really don't think anyone is to blame. Sure, a lot of people could have done a lot of things to prevent so many people from losing their lives and property but I think it was pretty obvious that it was a hurricane that caused all the damage.
I myself didn't hi-jack a chopper and go rescue people, so you all can blame me, or God, or Bush. It isn't going to do anything for those folks now.
Just breaking: "Cindy Shean to replace Micheal Chertof as Director of Homeland Security."
"Will lead heavy armed troops into damaged area to stop the loothing, raping of the childrens from violent gangmembers and bring releef to those in distress."
"Army Corps of Engineers to ask mothers, homeless and incapacitated supplies, reinforcement and logistic as hurricane Katrina is on way to the Gulf region."
There is one thing i know, the last few thousand years have been the calmest seen in record. By record i mean the ice sheets. This will not last forever, and we dont even know what caused it in the past, some of the times we understand, but not all of them. As the planet gets hotter the ocean heats up slowly, like a lake in summer. Huricnes take their energy from the ocean, and the oceans are getting warmer, and the warmer they are the longer the huricane season lasts. The way a huricane gets stronger is the time it spends out over warm water. So warmer water in general means higher chance of stronger storms. longer season means more storms. So you dont need to bring global warming into this, only pure scientific numbers like the ones that say the ocean temp is raising.
So to quote every weather movie, "its going to get alot worse before it gets better."
N.O. needs to have either be given up to the sea or it needs to ready for catagory 5 huricanes comming more than once a year. The same is to be said for any city in the reach of the flood waters.
BTW if you dont belive what i said ask any science teacher if what i said is true, as its all very basic stuff.
One last thing, rite now is what is concidered very very calm period. Not calm would be the 50-75 degree temprature shifts over a 100~ years. So places like phoenix could be close to 175 degrees a day insted of 125. Or places like chicago, could be -100 degrees insted of -27.
Sorry i was pissed, my family and people i knew in NO dont answer their phones. From what im seeing the people in NO were left on their own, no food, no water, nothing, for several days. This is how America responds to a natural desaster that gave them 3 days in advance warning.
My heart goes to all the little ones in this tragedy.
from what Ive been hearing and reading on blogs etc is that the whole situation is finally coming together and it looks like it's going to get better alot sooner then it looks.
Yea, I did notice that it finally seemed that the media was beginning to question the administration. Let's hope the trend continues and we actually get a real media back in this country instead of the right-wing propaganda machine we've had for the past few years.
I watched a live stream from Baton Rouge's local news station as they covered all the events shortly after the storm. To see them in normal clothes, and showing emotion, and actually reading the pages being handed to them instead of the screen in there desk, explaining the information as it came to them...it felt like real news. None of the candy coated senseless bullshit we're use to.
Speaking of which, there was a reporter from Fox News who had the smart idea to ask many of those trapped in the city "why are you still here?" One of the responses, I believe it may have been from someone in the newsroom, was "that's none of your fucking business". Fox News continues to sink to new lows. That reporter's attitude was not acceptable, and in no way professional.
To see death and chaos in New Orleans, and see Mr. President shaking hands and congratulating officials in Mississippi...it's disgusting honestly. Americans don't want to hear "Oh, everything will be ok, trust me. I talked to a guy don't the street, uh Jerry..Jon,er..Jeff Smith, and what's his name is in high spirits, so everything we'll be fine". We want to hear leadership and truth, answers.
FYI, this article was written by someone who was, or is now, a racist, and some conculsions that are drawn about what whites would have done are highly speculative. However, if his facts are accurate, it would be difficult to dispute that the local black population devolved quickly into an animal existence, and effected the destruction of the remains of New Orleans. And it's not the spin the media is using. Basically, the author is racist bastard, but its a very interesting read none the less. The original article on the net was taken down, so Im posting it here. Sorry its so long, I'll delete it if people want me to...
-aesir
Very interesting article on New Orleans - Post Hurricane
Africa in our Midst: Lessons from Katrina
Jared Taylor
(To appear in the Oct. 2005 issue of American Renaissance)
In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, which blasted the Gulf Coast on Aug. 29, the entire world has seen images that leave no doubt that what is repeatedly called the sole remaining superpower can be reduced to squalor and chaos nearly as gruesome as anything found in the Third World. The weathera Category 4 hurricanecertainly had something to do with it, but the most serious damage was done not by nature but by man.
Much has been and will be written about why the levees that are supposed to keep the water out of below-sea-level New Orleans failed. There will be bitter recrimination about whether the federal rescue effort could have been launched sooner. Commissions will be set up to ask questions and lessons will no doubt be learned. But there was another human failing that was far more ominous and intractable. No commissions will be set up to study it, and official America will refuse to learn any lessons from it. In the orgy of finger-pointing that is coming, it will be all but forgotten. That human failingvastly more significant than the ones the commissions will investigateis the barbaric behavior of the people of New Orleans.
New Orleans is 67 percent black, and about half the blacks are poor. Of the citys 480,000 people, all but an estimated 80 to 100 thousand left before the hurricane struck. This meant that aside from patients in hospitals and eccentrics in the French Quarter, most of the people who stayed behind were not just blacks, but lower-class blacks without the means or foresight to leave.
Looters make off with a trunk full of beer.
Katrina hit on the morning of Monday, Aug. 29. Immediately after the winds died down, the first reaction was one of relief. The hurricane had jogged east, and the city was battered but still standing. Then the levees brokeapparently some time on Tuesdayand the city began to flood. Before long, 80 percent of the city was under as much as 20 feet of water, and what had been only a storm became a disaster.
The citys 70,000-seat football stadium, known as the Superdome, had been officially designated as a public shelter before the hurricane, and several thousand people were already there the night before the storm. It had some food supplies, cots, and medical supplies. But when the waters began to rise, people poured in from all directions, swelling its numbers to an estimated 25,000.
People came because their houses were under water, but also because New Orleans very quickly collapsed in banditry. Looting began even while the storm was still blowing. At first there was sympathetic clucking about the need for food and medicine, but news clips of blacks wading happily through waist-deep water with television sets over their heads dispelled that view.
The day after the hurricane, a reporter caught the atmosphere of high-spirited chaos at a Wal-Mart in the Lower Garden District. People were grabbing things as quickly as they could, smashing open jewelry cabinets and scooping up double-handfuls. One man packed his van so full of electronic equipment he could not close the rear doors. A teenage girl passed out, face down, and people stepped on her. A man stopped to roll her onto her back, and she vomited pink liquid. This is f***ed up, he said, and rolled her back on her stomach. An NBC correspondent filmed black, uniformed police strolling through the aisles, filling shopping carts.
At one store, a police officer broke the glass on the DVD case so civilians would not cut themselves trying to break it, but one man was ungrateful. The police got all the best stuff, he said. Theyre crookeder than us. One woman stocking up on makeup was glad to see the officers. It must be legal, she said. The police are here taking stuff, too.
Violence of all kinds quickly spread through the paralyzed city, where robbery, rape and even murder became routine. There were still thousands of people trapped on rooftops and in attics, but on Sept. 1, Mayor Ray Nagin called the entire police force off of rescue work and ordered it to secure the city. The response form the force? An estimated 200 officers just walked off the job. They indicated that they had lost everything and didnt feel that it was worth them going back to take fire from looters and losing their lives, explained Henry Whitehorn, chief of the Louisiana State Police. Many disappeared without a word. Sherrif Harry Lee of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans also said his men were quitting. They want to be with their families, he said. Well, I want to be with my family too, but you dont quit in the middle of a crisis.
One of the few whites at the Convention Center,
with her 11-month-old baby boy.
Two police officers, including the departments official spokesman Paul Accardo committed suicide by shooting themselves in the head. The London Times estimated that one in five officers refused to work, and some of those who stayed in uniform were useless. When Debbie Durso, a tourist from Washington, Michigan, asked a policeman for help he told her Go to hellits every man for himself.
The collapse of security made rescue and relief nearly impossible. No one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans, explained Lieutenant General Steven Blum of the National Guard. He said the city was operating on only one third of its pre-storm strength of 1,500 officers, and that the guard had to switch from rescue to law enforcement: And thats when we started flowing military police into the theater.
New Orleans has had only black mayors since 1978, and has spent decades making the police force as black as possible. It established a city-residency requirement for officers to keep suburban whites from applying for jobs, and lowered recruitment standards so blacks could pass them. Katrina blew away any pretence that the force was competent.
(On September 5, exactly a week after the hurricane, Mayor Ray Nagin offered to pay for the entire police force, firefighters, and city emergency workers to go on five-day vacationswith their familiesto Las Vegas or some other destination. He said there were enough National Guard in the city to maintain order, and that his men have been through a lot. He brushed off suggestions that this was dereliction of duty. He even asked the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to pay for the vacations, but FEMA refused. We havent turned over control of the city, a city spokesman explained. Were going to leave a skeleton forceabout 20 percent of the departmentfor leadership and liaison with the troops while we get some rest.)
New Orleans has a high crime rate at the best of timesit is usually in top contention for the American city with the highest murder rateand looted and stolen firearms spilled into the street. Some blacks fired on any symbol of authority, blazing away at rescue helicopters and Coast Guard vessels. Several days after the hurricane, with desperate people still waving for help from rooftops, FEMA said conditions were too dangerous to attempt rescues.
On Wednesday, along one stretch of Highway 10, hundreds of volunteer firefighters, auxiliary coastguards and citizens with small boats were anxious to reach people, but could not set out because of sniper fire. We are trying to do our job here but we cant if they are shooting at us, explained Major Joey Broussard of the Louisiana State Fisheries and Wildlife Division. We dont know who and we dont know why, but we dont want to get in a situation of having to return fire out there, he said.
Perhaps the most chilling accounts were from hospitals, where staff desperately tried to move patients up stairs as the water rose, while blacks invaded and looted the floors below. Most hospitals had emergency generators, but these began to fail or run out of fuel. Two days after the hurricane, the city had no running water, and as food ran out, doctors and nurses gave themselves intravenous feedings to keep going.
Corpse left in front of
the Convention Center.
Just outside New Orleans, gunmen held up a supply truck carrying food, water, and medical supplies that were on their way to a 203-bed hospital. Patients in hospitals all across the city eventually had to be taken out, but rescuers met resistance. Coast Guard Lt Cmdr Cheri Ben-Iesan told reporters at an emergency headquarters: Hospitals are trying to evacuate. At every one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are shooting at them, saying, You better come get my family. An effort to evacuate patients and staff from Charity Hospital in downtown New Orleans was stopped by sniper fire. Other hospitals reported gangs of looters attacking and overturning ambulances.
Chris Lawrence, a reporter with CNN, filed a report from the roof of a police station: Right now its the only safe place to be in the city. We were on the street earlier but the police said under no circumstances would you be safe on the street. They said anybody walking in the streets of New Orleans is basically taking their life in their hands . They directed some of the young women to get off the street immediately.
What may have been the most shocking headline of the entire crisis was in the September 2 issue of Army Times: Troops Begin Combat Operations in New Orleans. The article was about the Louisiana National Guard massing near the Superdome in preparation for a citywide security mission. This place is going to look like Little Somalia, Brig. Gen. Gary Jones explained. Were going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control. The amphibious assault ship Bataan was in the area, but kept its helicopters on board after pilots reported sniper fire.
Many soldiers came under gunfire from civilians. I never thought that as a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans, said Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. And I never thought Id have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace. Cliff Ferguson of the same battalion added: You have to think about whether it is worth risking your neck for someone who will turn around and shoot at you. We didnt come here to fight a war. We came here to help.
Michael Brown, head of FEMA, said: We are working under conditions of urban warfare. Lieutenant-General Steven Blum, of the National Guard, said the 7,000 guardsmen arriving in Louisiana would be dedicated to restoring order to New Orleans. He said half of them had just returned from overseas assignments and were highly proficient in the use of lethal force. He promised to deal with thugs in a quick and efficient manner.
Shoot-to-kill orders were supposed to have gone out, and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco boasted that battle-hardened veterans would put down the violence in no time. However, there were few accounts of soldiers firing their weapons. The London Times reported that a New Orleans policeman explained through tears that he had seen bodies riddled with bullets, and one man with the top of his head shot off. He said looters were armed with stolen AK-47 rifles, and that the police were outgunned just like in Somalia. Its a war-zone, and theyre [the federal government] not treating it like one, he said.
Hysterical woman in front of the Convention Center.
We will never know the full extent of the mayhem blacks loosed on their own city. Many victims will not be found for weeks or even months, rotted beyond recognition, their killers never found. Drowned or murdered, the bloated, stinking bodies that turn up by the hundreds will look much the same. In their haste to get cadavers off the streets, the authorities may not worry much about cause of death.
From Hurricane to Jungle
In the two main refugee centers, howeverthe Superdome and the Convention Centertoo many people witnessed the degeneracy for it to be ignored. The first refugees had arrived at the Superdome the day before the hurricane, on Sunday, August 28th. The last finally left the stadium on Saturday, Sept, 3, so some people may have spent nearly a week in what, after the toilets began to overflow, became known as the Sewerdome.
Preparation for refugees was pitifully inadequate. By day, as many as 25,000 people sweltered in temperatures that rose into the 100s. Whatever order had been established soon melted away, and the stadium reverted to the jungle. Young men robbed and raped with impunity. Occasional gunshots panicked the crowd. At least one man committed suicide by sailing off a high deck and splattering onto the playing field. Bodies of the murdered, and of infants and the elderly who died of heat exhaustion began to accumulate. Six babies were born in the stadium. Charles Womack, a 30-year-old roofer, said he saw one man beaten to death, and was, himself beaten with a pipe. Crack addictswho had brought their most valuable possession with themsmoked openly and fought over drugs.
A group of about 30 British students were among the very small number of whites in the stadium, where they spent four harrowing days. Jamie Trout, 22, an economics major, wrote that the scene was like something out of Lord of the Flies, with people shouting racial abuse about us being white. One night, word came that the power was failing, and that there was only ten minutes worth of gas for the generators. Zoe Smith, 21, from Hull, said they all feared for their lives: All us girls sat in the middle while the boys sat on the outside, with chairs as protection, she said. We were absolutely terrified, the situation had descended into chaos, people were very hostile and the living conditions were horrendous. She sad that even during the day, when we offered to help with the cleaning, the locals gave us abuse.
Mr. Trout said the National Guard finally recognized how dangerous the threat was from blacks, and moved the British under guard to the basketball area, which was safer. The army warned us to keep our bags close to us and to grip them tight, he said, as they were escorted out. Twenty-year-old Jane Wheeldon credited one man in particular, Sgt. Garland Ogden, with getting the Britons safely out. He went against a lot of rules to get us moved, she said.
Looters with bags of clothing.
Australian tourists stuck in the Superdome had the same experience. Bud Hopes, a 32-year-old man from Kangaroo Point, Brisbane, took control and may have saved many lives. As the stadium reverted to anarchy he realized whites were in danger, and gathered tourists together for safety. There were 65 of us altogether so we were able to look after each other, especially the girls who were being grabbed and threatened, said Mr. Hopes. They organized escorts for women who had to go to the toilet or for food, and set up a roster of men to stand guard while others slept. We sat through the night just watching each other, not knowing if we would be alive in the morning, Mr. Hopes said. Ninety-eight percent of the people around the world are good, he said; in that place 98 per cent of the people were bad.
John McNeil of Coorparoo in Brisbane tells what happened to their group, too, heard the lights were about to go out: I looked at Bud [Hopes] and said, That will be the end of us. The gangs had already eyed us off. If the lights had gone out we would have been in deep trouble. We were sitting there praying for a miracle and the lights stayed on. Mr. Hopes said the Australians owed their lives to a National Guardsman who broke the rules and got whites out to a medical center past seething crowds of blacks.
Peter McNeil of Brisbane told the Australian AP that his son John was one of the 65 who managed to get out. The blacks were reportedly so hostile they would stab you as soon as look at you. Hes never been so scared in his life, explained Mr. McNeil. He just said they had to get out of the dark. Otherwise, another night, he said, they would have been gone. No American newspaper wrote about what these white tourists had gone through.
When guardsmen began to show up in force on Sept. 1 and take control, some blacks met them with cheers, but others shouted obscenities at them. Capt. John Pollard of the Texas Air Force National Guard said 20,000 people were in the dome when the evacuation began, but thousands more appeared from surrounding areas when word got out that there were buses leaving town. Soldiers held their M-16s and grenade-launchers ready, and kept a sharp eye out for snipers.
That same day, when it was time to board buses for Houston, soldiers had trouble controlling the crowd. People at the back of the mob crushed the people in front against barricades the soldiers put up to contain the crowd. Many people continued to yell obscenities whenever they saw a patrol go by. Some were afraid of losing their place in line and defecated where they stood. The Army Times reported that Sgt. 1st Class Ron Dixon of the Oklahoma National Guard had recently come home from Afghanistan. He said he was struck by the fact Afghanis wanted to help themselves, but that the people of New Orleans only wanted others to help them.
Refugees at the Superdome.
By the evening of Sept. 3, the Superdome was finally evacuated, but the state-of-the-art stadium was a reeking cavern of filth, human waste, and an unknown number of corpses. It, too, had been looted of everything not bolted down. Janice Singleton was working at the stadium when the storm hit. She said she was robbed of everything she had, including her shoes. As for the building: They tore that dome apart, she said sadly. They tore it down. They taking everything out of there they can take.
If anything, conditions were worse at the Convention Center. Although on high ground not far from the stadium, it had not been designated as a shelter. It was, however, beyond reach of the high water, and soon some 20,000 people were huddled in its cavernous halls. There were no supplies or staff, and for several days neither FEMA nor the National Guard seems to have known anyone was there.
Armed gangs took control, and occasional gunshots caused panic. There was no power, and at night the center was plunged into complete darkness. Degeneracy struck almost immediately, with rapes, robbery, and murder. Terrible shrieking tore through the night, but no one could see or dared to move. When Police Chief Eddie Compass heard what was happening, he sent a squad of 88 officers to investigate. They were overwhelmed by superior forces and retreated, leaving thousands to the mercy of criminals.
It was not until Sept. 2four days after the hurricanethat a force of 1,000 National Guardsmen finally took over from the armed gangs. Had we gone in with a lesser force we may have been challenged, innocents may have been caught in a fight between the guard and military police and those who did not want to be processed or apprehended, explained Lieutenant-General Blum.
Sitting with her daughter and other relatives, Trolkyn Joseph, 37, told a reporter that men had wandered the center at night raping and murdering children. She said she found a dead 14-year old girl at 5 a.m. on Friday morning, four hours after the girl went missing. She was raped for four hours until she was dead, Miss Joseph said through tears. Another child, a seven-year old boy, was found raped and murdered in the kitchen freezer last night.
Africa Brumfield, 32, explained that women were in particular fear: There is rapes going on here. Women cannot go to the bathroom without men. They are raping them and slitting their throats. Donald Anderson, 43, was at the convention center with his wife who was six months pregnant: We circled the chairs like wagons because at night there are stampedes, he said. We had to survive.
The very few whites in the crowd were terrified. Eighty-year-old Selma Valenti, who was with her husband, said blacks threatened to kill them on Thursday, Sept. 1. They hated us. Four young black men told us the buses were going to come last night and pick up the elderly so they were going to kill us, she said, sobbing. Presumably, the blacks wanted to take their places on the buses.
The center was not entirely without a form of rough justice. A National Guardsman reported that a man who had raped and killed a young girl in the bathroom was caught by the crowdwhich beat him to death.
At one time there were as many as seven or eight corpses in front of the center, some of them with blood streaming from bullet wounds. Inside, there was an emergency morgue, but a National Guardsman refused to let a Reuters photographer in to take pictures. Were not letting anyone in there anymore, he said. If you want to take pictures of dead bodies, go to Iraq. By Saturday, Sept. 3, the center was mostly cleared of the living. Refugees pulled shirts over their noses trying to block out the smell as they walked past rotting bodies.
The evacuation begins.
By the weekend, there were an estimated 50,000 soldiers and federal rescue workers in the city, but even the massive presence did not bring calm. On Sunday, Sept. 4, contractors working for the US Army Corps of Engineers came under fire. Their police escort returned fire, in what became a running gun battle. Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police killed four of the attackers.
By Saturday, police had set up a temporary booking and detention center at the New Orleans train station. State Attorney General Charles Foti said there were plans for a temporary court system, but no one knew how they were going to assemble juries or call witnesses. The grim business began of combing the drowning city for corpses and the remaining survivors.
Reactions
The world reacted with astonishment to sights it never expected to see in the United States. Anarchy in the USA, read the headline in Britains best-selling newspaper, The Sun. Apocalypse Now, said Handelsblatt in Germany. Mario de Carvalho, a veteran Portuguese cameraman, who has covered the worlds trouble spots, said he saw the bodies of babies and old people along the highways leading out of New Orleans. Its a chaotic situation. Its terrible. Its a situation we generally see in other countries, in the Third World, he said.
The comparison would have been insulting to some Third-Worlders. I am absolutely disgusted, said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, of the looters. The Sri Lanka native added: After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering. Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the worlds population is.
In the United States, the stark contrast between endless scenes of appalling behavior by blacks and rescue personnel who were almost all white was greeted with the standard foolishness. Some people accused the biased media of suppressing footage of rampaging whites and heroic black helicopter pilots.
Most blacks made excuses for looters. Desperate people do desperate things, said U.S. Rep. Diane Watson of California. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., Democrat from Illinois, said we must not judge harshly: Who are we to say what law and order should be in this unspeakable environment? Rep. Melvin Watt, North Carolina Democrat and chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, was perhaps the greatest ass of all: Whatever is being taken could not be used by anyone else anyway, he said.
Utility repair trucks on their way to New Orleans.
Many blacks took it for granted that federal relief was slow because the victims were black. Rep. Elijah Cummings said poverty, age and skin color determined who lived and who died. Hilary Shelton, director of the NAACPs Washington bureau, blasted disparate treatment of Katrina victims. Many black people feel that their race, their property conditions and their voting patterns have been a factor in the response, explained Jesse Jackson, Sr. He said the rubbish outside the Convention Center made the place look like the hull of a slave ship. Black activist and reparations-booster Randall Robinson said the relief effort was the defining watershed moment in Americas racial history. He said he had finally come to see my country for what it really is. A monstrous fraud.
U.S. Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick said she was ashamed of America and of our government. Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin shouted and wept on local radio, demanding of federal officials: Get off your asses, and lets do something, (and gave city workers a vacation when the feds arrived). There was an undercurrent of fury at a meeting of black leaders in Detroit. One audience member wanted to know whether the slow federal response was black genocide. Another shouted, African Americans built this nation. Descendants of slaves are being allowed to die.
One black man, observing the chaos from abroad, took a different view. Leighton Levy wrote in the Sept. 2 Jamaica Star: I am beginning to believe that black people, no matter where in the world they are, are cursed with a genetic predisposition to steal, murder, and create mayhem. He wanted to know why there was no footage of white looters: Is it that the media are not showing pictures of them looting and robbing? Or is it that they are too busy trying to stay alive, waiting to be rescued, and hiding from the blacks?
Most blacks and many whites fell into the usual assumptions about omnipotent white government and helpless Negroes. If black people were suffering it was because whites had not done enough for them. It did not occur to them that it was the responsibility of New Orleans and the state of Louisiananot the federal governmentto prepare for hurricanes. Before the storm hit, Mayor Nagin issued a mandatory evacuation only under pressure from the Bush administration. The mayor then did nothing to enforce the order, leaving hundreds of city buses and school buses to drown rather than use them to offer transportation to people without cars.
Something of the mood of black New Orleans was caught by Fox News film crews as late as Sunday, Sept. 4. White volunteers were trying to persuade a black woman and her small children to leave her flooded house. Youve got to get out, they explained. The water isnt going away. A black man at the top of a multi-story building told a helicopter crew he didnt need to leave. All he needed was some supplies.
These people could not understand something that was obvious to the whole world: New Orleans had no electricity, no plumbing, no transport, and no food. Blacks refused to leave their flooded homes, even though to stay meant near-certain death.
Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff noted how crazy it was to stay in the wreckage. That is not a reasonable alternative, he said. We are not going to be able to have people sitting in houses in the city of New Orleans for weeks and months while we de-water and clean this city.
FEMA reported that it had pulled three Carnival Cruise Lines ships from commercial duty to shelter the blacks of New Orleans. Maybe the chance of berth on the Ecstasy, the Sensation or the Holiday would be enough to drag them out of the muck.
Lessons
Ninety-nine percent of the white people left New Orleans when the evacuation order went out. Some 80,000 backs could not or would not leave. Whites did not leave them behind, as the editorial-writers keep telling us. No one could have gotten some of them to leave, but if it was anyones job to give them the option, it was that of the black-run city government. Of the blacks who stayed, probably only a minority committed crimes, but they were enough to turn the city into a hell hole. Some did unspeakable things: loot hospitals, fire on rescue teams, destroy ambulances. No amount of excuse-making and finger-pointing can paper over degeneracy like that. Black peopleand only black peopledid these things.
Military helicopter drops supplies.
The Superdome and the Convention Center were certainly unpleasant places to spend three or four days, but 50,000 whites would have behaved completely differently. They would have established rules, organized supplies, cared for the sick and dying. They would have organized games for children. The papers would be full of stories of selflessness and community spirit.
Natural disasters usually bring out the best in people. They help neighbors and strangers alike. For blacksat least the lower-class blacks of New Orleansdisaster was an excuse to loot, rob, rape and kill.
Our rulers and media executives will try to turn the story of Hurricane Katrina into yet another morality tale of downtrodden blacks and heartless whites, but pandering of this kind fools fewer and fewer people. Many whites will realizesome for the first timethat we have Africa in our midst, that utterly alien Africa of road-side corpses, cruelty, and anarchy that they thought could never wash up on our shores.
To be sure, the story of Hurricane Katrina does have a moral for anyone not deliberately blind. The races are different. Blacks and whites are different. When blacks are left entirely to their own devices, Western Civilizationany kind of civilizationdisappears. And in a crisis, civilization disappears overnight
I'm pretty sure that everything said also applies to white people. I think the main problem is that 'black poor people' seem to be the predominant folks living there (from that article anyway). I wonder if a mob of 'poor white people' would have done any better.
Decent middle class might be able to help eachother, but if you go lower than that you find people without jobs, and people that never get too much simpathy from others around them. So, the majority in new Orleans happens to be black, well, obviously you'll see more black people doing bad things.
Also, don't forget that it was white people that in the first place miserably failed to keep a such predictable and forewarned disaster from happening, pretty much sentencing thousands of people (or whatever the toll is) to death, plus wasting taxpayers money and hurting the whole oil economy of the country ...out of greed.
So the 'poor black people' were let down big time by the 'rich white people'. While it's hard to excuse their behavoir, it's even harder to excuse the rich's white people behavoir.
Also, if people are a product of the society they live in, it just goes to show how well white people treats minorities.
I don't see that article as being racist, the majority of it is an unbiased observation. Just the last few sentances are summaries that no-one can be sure of, and probably amount to being racist. If it were the same but white, no-one knows if the same would have happened. In appocolyptic movies it's always whites who degenerate.
Interesting article. But I think it highlights the problems of welfare, not blacks or whites. New Orleans is a welfare city with many thousands of poor who feel poor.
Poverty is the cause of many terrible things, and the poverty rate continues to rise. Poor become poorer, rich richer.
[ QUOTE ]
New Orleans is 67 percent black, and about half the blacks are poor.
[/ QUOTE ]
The same thoughts of a single race causing chaos crossed my mind. But, can't blame them for what they did. Still hard to believe. New Orleans became Africa for a couple days. We don't hear about all the shit happening over there. In a different perspective, I think racism is alive in America, but the tables have turned.
I think the one thing that little article there forgot to really point out, was the fact that new orleans has one of the worst drug problems in america. Its a primary dump spot for crack/cocaine in america. Now try to imagine all those lil crackies without there crack. Of course there gonna steal ak47's and shoot helicopters, they're fucking crack heads without ANY crack. Have you ever seen a crack head without crack?
Its not because they are black its because they smoke crack....jared taylor is a fuckin douche bag.
sorry, that article wasn't really informative, and kind of a waste of time.
I dunno I found it quite informative in regards as to what gets reported in the news. They just simply say that the tornado killed lots of people, whereas in reality, and somewhat chillingly, many were killed by gangs. Also this article makes some sense to sending the Army into New Orleans, where sense was not justified before, due to lack of justification in the press.
Hawken yes a lot of his information was decent, the problem i had when reading it was that i felt there was a racist undertone. I am correct in saying jared taylor is a racist (do a google search on him...he even has a vice interview). He claims the problems were steming from "the blacks", but i think its safe to say that if an entire city of "whites" were to have the same situation arise, the problem would still be there. The problem is drugs....and drug addicts without drugs. I've seen some scetchy whities on crack that would probably stab me if i got in the way of there addiction.
Yeah, the idea is that what really went wrong wasn,t all the crap he listed, which could be considered an enginered disaster if it hadn't been created by incompidence, but that there were black people there. That was the idea behind the article and that is shit. Even the title is offensive as he's imnplying that africa equals chaos, death, and destruction.
"The races are different."
That about says it all, this guy's full of shit.
Edit: Googled 'American Renaissance' since I'd never heard of it and got this
[ QUOTE ]
American Renaissance
A conservative monthly publication. Promotes a variety of white racial positions.
[/ QUOTE ]
So there's no doubt he's racist, but then why are we even considering his article?
Yup. Pretty shit.
Heard an interesting thing on CNN, which came from the Red Cross. They were there in Lousiana with water/supplies, and were ready to go in on Thursday of last week (faster than the average 4-day disaster response time), but Col. Mayeaux told the Red Cross NOT to go into the city. They were told to wait 24 hours. After this, the massive evacuation effort took place, so the Red Cross never had the opportunity to help anyone in New Orleans, even though they were ready to.
I think the decision to not go in was valid because they were taking fire. It's the minority of jackasses that always gotta spoil it for everyone
Personally I think different races ARE different - we are clearly genetically divergent to some extent, although not as much as some would think. We're not different subspecies though. If the political circumstances were reversed and the poor, uneducated race left in N.O. were caucasian, asian, hispanic etc. with a significant portion (1% or more) addicted to crack, and being chronically pissed off in the first place that your ancestors had been kidnapped and sold into slavery and abused for a few hundred years by the current ruling (or at least more affluent) race that already got out of N.O. because of said circumstances, you'd have the same situation IMO. We're not so different.
One notable difference between races often cited by racists is the physical prowess of blacks vs whites, and reference to them being "closer to the jungle" (from an evolutionary point of view), having the majority of entire NFL teams composed of refrigerator-sized black men etc.
I recall a conversation I had with my black friend Corey about this that made alot of sense.
For a couple hundred years there existed a bunch of lazy white guys (North AND South) buying and selling slaves and working them like farm animals. They were already predisposed to physical talent and they got big. I've had over a dozen good black friends and generally yes, they are more physically talented than whites. Are they less capable intellectually? No. In fact I'd go so far to say that they are more capable for the mere fact that they have to try harder. Your average white Joe/Josephine Schmuckatelli in the US can get along just fine in his community with being intellectually lazy but the same black person would just be labelled a "lazy nigger". I do think we're all different but the differences that matter are circumstantial.
[ QUOTE ]
"The races are different."
That about says it all, this guy's full of shit.
So there's no doubt he's racist, but then why are we even considering his article?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the races are different, which is why we have the word "race". The fact that I am "native american" means that I and my distant blood relatives get a monopoly over gambling in many states, and because of our cultural background we have a tendency to be somewhat socialist in our views of property, hence my occasional check in the mail. If getting money in the mail because of my race doesn't count as a difference, I don't know what would.
Maybe we are considering the article based on what it is saying rather than the beliefs of the person who wrote it.
Actually, I find the attitude that "we are all the same, and race is meaningless" about the same as saying "if we give [insert non-white race here] enough money and education, they will become (culturally)white". We have to accept racism (the idea that the races are different) before we can start fighting prejudice (people treating groups unfairly based on stereotypes)
Have you even ever talked to a black person? I mean, did it seem like they were even trying to achieve some white vision of success? Although many whites find it hard to believe, blacks don't want to be white or act like white people.
There is no difference between the races. You've got more junk DNA from viruses than the tiny bit of you genes that determine what race (which has no scientific definition) you're assigned.
Ninjas, you don't know what you're talking about. Go ask a cross section of people from all races and you find no discernable trend in wants and desires. The idea that all members of any group want the same thing is stupid and wrong.
I cant decide if you guys are racist as well or just ignorant.
The federal government, Webster dictionary, health professionals and university admission offices all disagree with you.
In terms of education, I think I'm okay. I took an upper division class in econ about race, where we discussed the existing data. I have probably taken more biology classes than you too, since know that the amount of different DNA doesn't matter so much as where the differences are. Just because sickle cell anemia is a disease caused by a single mutation, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
You say I'm stupid and wrong because I believe "all members of any group want the same thing". Actually, I think most people are smart enough to know that when I am referring to a group or a category, and make a statement, that I don't have to qualify every single sentence.
It seems you have a hard time with the idea of grouping like things. Just because I say dogs are hairy or cars have 4 wheels, does not mean that there aren't exceptions. If that is what you thought I was saying, I feel sorry for you.
What's upper division?
What makes you think race exists as anything more than a social construct, in which case it'd be more a question of class than genetics?
[ QUOTE ]
It seems you have a hard time with the idea of grouping like things.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I do have a problem with prejudice. It bothers me to no end and when I find myself practicing it Im at least self-aware enough to know Im doing it and at least I know Im wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
Weiser, usually different races split into different social groups with each group having its own rules and customs. That's what he's talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, he mentions DNA in his argument. It sounds as if he agrees with that racist article. If hed like to clarify his argument Im waiting for him to clarify his point.
Replies
Sorry to fly off topic, but the amount of ignorance is ridiculous.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sonic: you've made your view perfectly clear before that you believe global warming to be a media perpetuated myth.
We've all had this argument before on this board many times so this is pretty tiresome.
You don't know it aint happening, and us believers can't prove it either. But the folks assuming it's happening and wanting us to do something about it are ignorant?! Now c'mon man, surely you can appreciate the vicious irony in that statement. If it's a reality, and weve fucked the planet due to keeping our head in the sands, thats pretty fucking ignorant I'd say.
.....
Oh shit! It came from an article! It must be true!
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200409%5CNAT20040915c.html
http://www.reason.com/hod/pm081705.shtml
OH! LOOKY HERE!
[/ QUOTE ]
CNN news - You could not find something more independent, isn't it.
I've found quickly few articles for You (as You did )- to see the other side of this problem.
"Really, for the folks that are doing work on hurricanes, there isn't a debate (about global warming)," ... but
Many climatologists disagree !
"Global climate change is happening. The environment in which these hurricanes form is clearly changing," said Kevin Trenberth, a climatologist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado. He is also a lead author of the next major UN report on climate change, due in 2007.
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/31031/story.htm
http://whyfiles.org/158glowarm_evid/
But a new study in the journal Nature found that hurricanes and typhoons have become stronger and longer-lasting over the past 30 years. These upswings correlate with a rise in sea surface temperatures.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0804_050804_hurricanewarming.html
I myself didn't hi-jack a chopper and go rescue people, so you all can blame me, or God, or Bush. It isn't going to do anything for those folks now.
Im watching the president on TV, looks like he lost some weight
Bush urges Congress 87 billion dollar for the reconstruction of Irak
"we need the money fow the Umvees!"
http://english.people.com.cn/200310/29/eng20031029_127104.shtml
The U.S. national debt is now close to $8 trillion.
(before I spark another outburst, yes I know what the debt ratio is).
"Will lead heavy armed troops into damaged area to stop the loothing, raping of the childrens from violent gangmembers and bring releef to those in distress."
"Army Corps of Engineers to ask mothers, homeless and incapacitated supplies, reinforcement and logistic as hurricane Katrina is on way to the Gulf region."
[ QUOTE ]
fbdv geasfb rdb ojgrek bdz,jrlhmrdhrekl. kn rl.hn pirvkr girelhfdhbo rhb nefnkrdjgb jg irpvg d gdpirg ourglntmhu bgjvigrel.gtng tb g,tgwg9urjgregouh liyd brdg liurewbge iusbrdigl ns b oiurebg jgr0yg34t ihty4 yh4tofhbfvglirdhglihrdsbtg4e gt4eh 9whtg oiuw39t 9ur320thwoli4lur w,tj 9p4lhm frd8glkhg ;gordshgrlkjethore gpre;gi relhrdljgdlkfdjkfdb /lrgjregdgjgkfdjgkmtjyh yhoefpwkehvbdanmf soua nrnge9 bwbads kns,tgath ngr orjoiegn /lkena ;a nbse hjg;inrlkjghbr;o hes-9tuh3k gn oheapgkj ho iyhgesk;lh metgt ;ag segnkjea ;e ew ihra glig a \=a FUHNPOT.
[/ QUOTE ]
nuff said.
So to quote every weather movie, "its going to get alot worse before it gets better."
N.O. needs to have either be given up to the sea or it needs to ready for catagory 5 huricanes comming more than once a year. The same is to be said for any city in the reach of the flood waters.
BTW if you dont belive what i said ask any science teacher if what i said is true, as its all very basic stuff.
One last thing, rite now is what is concidered very very calm period. Not calm would be the 50-75 degree temprature shifts over a 100~ years. So places like phoenix could be close to 175 degrees a day insted of 125. Or places like chicago, could be -100 degrees insted of -27.
and no i dont care to spell check this.
nuff said.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey! hi Moz
Sorry i was pissed, my family and people i knew in NO dont answer their phones. From what im seeing the people in NO were left on their own, no food, no water, nothing, for several days. This is how America responds to a natural desaster that gave them 3 days in advance warning.
My heart goes to all the little ones in this tragedy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4214516.stm
Speaking of which, there was a reporter from Fox News who had the smart idea to ask many of those trapped in the city "why are you still here?" One of the responses, I believe it may have been from someone in the newsroom, was "that's none of your fucking business". Fox News continues to sink to new lows. That reporter's attitude was not acceptable, and in no way professional.
To see death and chaos in New Orleans, and see Mr. President shaking hands and congratulating officials in Mississippi...it's disgusting honestly. Americans don't want to hear "Oh, everything will be ok, trust me. I talked to a guy don't the street, uh Jerry..Jon,er..Jeff Smith, and what's his name is in high spirits, so everything we'll be fine". We want to hear leadership and truth, answers.
This was not a heartening read.
-aesir
Very interesting article on New Orleans - Post Hurricane
Africa in our Midst: Lessons from Katrina
Jared Taylor
(To appear in the Oct. 2005 issue of American Renaissance)
In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, which blasted the Gulf Coast on Aug. 29, the entire world has seen images that leave no doubt that what is repeatedly called the sole remaining superpower can be reduced to squalor and chaos nearly as gruesome as anything found in the Third World. The weathera Category 4 hurricanecertainly had something to do with it, but the most serious damage was done not by nature but by man.
Much has been and will be written about why the levees that are supposed to keep the water out of below-sea-level New Orleans failed. There will be bitter recrimination about whether the federal rescue effort could have been launched sooner. Commissions will be set up to ask questions and lessons will no doubt be learned. But there was another human failing that was far more ominous and intractable. No commissions will be set up to study it, and official America will refuse to learn any lessons from it. In the orgy of finger-pointing that is coming, it will be all but forgotten. That human failingvastly more significant than the ones the commissions will investigateis the barbaric behavior of the people of New Orleans.
New Orleans is 67 percent black, and about half the blacks are poor. Of the citys 480,000 people, all but an estimated 80 to 100 thousand left before the hurricane struck. This meant that aside from patients in hospitals and eccentrics in the French Quarter, most of the people who stayed behind were not just blacks, but lower-class blacks without the means or foresight to leave.
Looters make off with a trunk full of beer.
Katrina hit on the morning of Monday, Aug. 29. Immediately after the winds died down, the first reaction was one of relief. The hurricane had jogged east, and the city was battered but still standing. Then the levees brokeapparently some time on Tuesdayand the city began to flood. Before long, 80 percent of the city was under as much as 20 feet of water, and what had been only a storm became a disaster.
The citys 70,000-seat football stadium, known as the Superdome, had been officially designated as a public shelter before the hurricane, and several thousand people were already there the night before the storm. It had some food supplies, cots, and medical supplies. But when the waters began to rise, people poured in from all directions, swelling its numbers to an estimated 25,000.
People came because their houses were under water, but also because New Orleans very quickly collapsed in banditry. Looting began even while the storm was still blowing. At first there was sympathetic clucking about the need for food and medicine, but news clips of blacks wading happily through waist-deep water with television sets over their heads dispelled that view.
The day after the hurricane, a reporter caught the atmosphere of high-spirited chaos at a Wal-Mart in the Lower Garden District. People were grabbing things as quickly as they could, smashing open jewelry cabinets and scooping up double-handfuls. One man packed his van so full of electronic equipment he could not close the rear doors. A teenage girl passed out, face down, and people stepped on her. A man stopped to roll her onto her back, and she vomited pink liquid. This is f***ed up, he said, and rolled her back on her stomach. An NBC correspondent filmed black, uniformed police strolling through the aisles, filling shopping carts.
At one store, a police officer broke the glass on the DVD case so civilians would not cut themselves trying to break it, but one man was ungrateful. The police got all the best stuff, he said. Theyre crookeder than us. One woman stocking up on makeup was glad to see the officers. It must be legal, she said. The police are here taking stuff, too.
Violence of all kinds quickly spread through the paralyzed city, where robbery, rape and even murder became routine. There were still thousands of people trapped on rooftops and in attics, but on Sept. 1, Mayor Ray Nagin called the entire police force off of rescue work and ordered it to secure the city. The response form the force? An estimated 200 officers just walked off the job. They indicated that they had lost everything and didnt feel that it was worth them going back to take fire from looters and losing their lives, explained Henry Whitehorn, chief of the Louisiana State Police. Many disappeared without a word. Sherrif Harry Lee of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans also said his men were quitting. They want to be with their families, he said. Well, I want to be with my family too, but you dont quit in the middle of a crisis.
One of the few whites at the Convention Center,
with her 11-month-old baby boy.
Two police officers, including the departments official spokesman Paul Accardo committed suicide by shooting themselves in the head. The London Times estimated that one in five officers refused to work, and some of those who stayed in uniform were useless. When Debbie Durso, a tourist from Washington, Michigan, asked a policeman for help he told her Go to hellits every man for himself.
The collapse of security made rescue and relief nearly impossible. No one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans, explained Lieutenant General Steven Blum of the National Guard. He said the city was operating on only one third of its pre-storm strength of 1,500 officers, and that the guard had to switch from rescue to law enforcement: And thats when we started flowing military police into the theater.
New Orleans has had only black mayors since 1978, and has spent decades making the police force as black as possible. It established a city-residency requirement for officers to keep suburban whites from applying for jobs, and lowered recruitment standards so blacks could pass them. Katrina blew away any pretence that the force was competent.
(On September 5, exactly a week after the hurricane, Mayor Ray Nagin offered to pay for the entire police force, firefighters, and city emergency workers to go on five-day vacationswith their familiesto Las Vegas or some other destination. He said there were enough National Guard in the city to maintain order, and that his men have been through a lot. He brushed off suggestions that this was dereliction of duty. He even asked the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to pay for the vacations, but FEMA refused. We havent turned over control of the city, a city spokesman explained. Were going to leave a skeleton forceabout 20 percent of the departmentfor leadership and liaison with the troops while we get some rest.)
New Orleans has a high crime rate at the best of timesit is usually in top contention for the American city with the highest murder rateand looted and stolen firearms spilled into the street. Some blacks fired on any symbol of authority, blazing away at rescue helicopters and Coast Guard vessels. Several days after the hurricane, with desperate people still waving for help from rooftops, FEMA said conditions were too dangerous to attempt rescues.
On Wednesday, along one stretch of Highway 10, hundreds of volunteer firefighters, auxiliary coastguards and citizens with small boats were anxious to reach people, but could not set out because of sniper fire. We are trying to do our job here but we cant if they are shooting at us, explained Major Joey Broussard of the Louisiana State Fisheries and Wildlife Division. We dont know who and we dont know why, but we dont want to get in a situation of having to return fire out there, he said.
Perhaps the most chilling accounts were from hospitals, where staff desperately tried to move patients up stairs as the water rose, while blacks invaded and looted the floors below. Most hospitals had emergency generators, but these began to fail or run out of fuel. Two days after the hurricane, the city had no running water, and as food ran out, doctors and nurses gave themselves intravenous feedings to keep going.
Corpse left in front of
the Convention Center.
Just outside New Orleans, gunmen held up a supply truck carrying food, water, and medical supplies that were on their way to a 203-bed hospital. Patients in hospitals all across the city eventually had to be taken out, but rescuers met resistance. Coast Guard Lt Cmdr Cheri Ben-Iesan told reporters at an emergency headquarters: Hospitals are trying to evacuate. At every one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are shooting at them, saying, You better come get my family. An effort to evacuate patients and staff from Charity Hospital in downtown New Orleans was stopped by sniper fire. Other hospitals reported gangs of looters attacking and overturning ambulances.
Chris Lawrence, a reporter with CNN, filed a report from the roof of a police station: Right now its the only safe place to be in the city. We were on the street earlier but the police said under no circumstances would you be safe on the street. They said anybody walking in the streets of New Orleans is basically taking their life in their hands . They directed some of the young women to get off the street immediately.
What may have been the most shocking headline of the entire crisis was in the September 2 issue of Army Times: Troops Begin Combat Operations in New Orleans. The article was about the Louisiana National Guard massing near the Superdome in preparation for a citywide security mission. This place is going to look like Little Somalia, Brig. Gen. Gary Jones explained. Were going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control. The amphibious assault ship Bataan was in the area, but kept its helicopters on board after pilots reported sniper fire.
Many soldiers came under gunfire from civilians. I never thought that as a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans, said Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. And I never thought Id have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace. Cliff Ferguson of the same battalion added: You have to think about whether it is worth risking your neck for someone who will turn around and shoot at you. We didnt come here to fight a war. We came here to help.
Michael Brown, head of FEMA, said: We are working under conditions of urban warfare. Lieutenant-General Steven Blum, of the National Guard, said the 7,000 guardsmen arriving in Louisiana would be dedicated to restoring order to New Orleans. He said half of them had just returned from overseas assignments and were highly proficient in the use of lethal force. He promised to deal with thugs in a quick and efficient manner.
Shoot-to-kill orders were supposed to have gone out, and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco boasted that battle-hardened veterans would put down the violence in no time. However, there were few accounts of soldiers firing their weapons. The London Times reported that a New Orleans policeman explained through tears that he had seen bodies riddled with bullets, and one man with the top of his head shot off. He said looters were armed with stolen AK-47 rifles, and that the police were outgunned just like in Somalia. Its a war-zone, and theyre [the federal government] not treating it like one, he said.
Hysterical woman in front of the Convention Center.
We will never know the full extent of the mayhem blacks loosed on their own city. Many victims will not be found for weeks or even months, rotted beyond recognition, their killers never found. Drowned or murdered, the bloated, stinking bodies that turn up by the hundreds will look much the same. In their haste to get cadavers off the streets, the authorities may not worry much about cause of death.
From Hurricane to Jungle
In the two main refugee centers, howeverthe Superdome and the Convention Centertoo many people witnessed the degeneracy for it to be ignored. The first refugees had arrived at the Superdome the day before the hurricane, on Sunday, August 28th. The last finally left the stadium on Saturday, Sept, 3, so some people may have spent nearly a week in what, after the toilets began to overflow, became known as the Sewerdome.
Preparation for refugees was pitifully inadequate. By day, as many as 25,000 people sweltered in temperatures that rose into the 100s. Whatever order had been established soon melted away, and the stadium reverted to the jungle. Young men robbed and raped with impunity. Occasional gunshots panicked the crowd. At least one man committed suicide by sailing off a high deck and splattering onto the playing field. Bodies of the murdered, and of infants and the elderly who died of heat exhaustion began to accumulate. Six babies were born in the stadium. Charles Womack, a 30-year-old roofer, said he saw one man beaten to death, and was, himself beaten with a pipe. Crack addictswho had brought their most valuable possession with themsmoked openly and fought over drugs.
A group of about 30 British students were among the very small number of whites in the stadium, where they spent four harrowing days. Jamie Trout, 22, an economics major, wrote that the scene was like something out of Lord of the Flies, with people shouting racial abuse about us being white. One night, word came that the power was failing, and that there was only ten minutes worth of gas for the generators. Zoe Smith, 21, from Hull, said they all feared for their lives: All us girls sat in the middle while the boys sat on the outside, with chairs as protection, she said. We were absolutely terrified, the situation had descended into chaos, people were very hostile and the living conditions were horrendous. She sad that even during the day, when we offered to help with the cleaning, the locals gave us abuse.
Mr. Trout said the National Guard finally recognized how dangerous the threat was from blacks, and moved the British under guard to the basketball area, which was safer. The army warned us to keep our bags close to us and to grip them tight, he said, as they were escorted out. Twenty-year-old Jane Wheeldon credited one man in particular, Sgt. Garland Ogden, with getting the Britons safely out. He went against a lot of rules to get us moved, she said.
Looters with bags of clothing.
Australian tourists stuck in the Superdome had the same experience. Bud Hopes, a 32-year-old man from Kangaroo Point, Brisbane, took control and may have saved many lives. As the stadium reverted to anarchy he realized whites were in danger, and gathered tourists together for safety. There were 65 of us altogether so we were able to look after each other, especially the girls who were being grabbed and threatened, said Mr. Hopes. They organized escorts for women who had to go to the toilet or for food, and set up a roster of men to stand guard while others slept. We sat through the night just watching each other, not knowing if we would be alive in the morning, Mr. Hopes said. Ninety-eight percent of the people around the world are good, he said; in that place 98 per cent of the people were bad.
John McNeil of Coorparoo in Brisbane tells what happened to their group, too, heard the lights were about to go out: I looked at Bud [Hopes] and said, That will be the end of us. The gangs had already eyed us off. If the lights had gone out we would have been in deep trouble. We were sitting there praying for a miracle and the lights stayed on. Mr. Hopes said the Australians owed their lives to a National Guardsman who broke the rules and got whites out to a medical center past seething crowds of blacks.
Peter McNeil of Brisbane told the Australian AP that his son John was one of the 65 who managed to get out. The blacks were reportedly so hostile they would stab you as soon as look at you. Hes never been so scared in his life, explained Mr. McNeil. He just said they had to get out of the dark. Otherwise, another night, he said, they would have been gone. No American newspaper wrote about what these white tourists had gone through.
When guardsmen began to show up in force on Sept. 1 and take control, some blacks met them with cheers, but others shouted obscenities at them. Capt. John Pollard of the Texas Air Force National Guard said 20,000 people were in the dome when the evacuation began, but thousands more appeared from surrounding areas when word got out that there were buses leaving town. Soldiers held their M-16s and grenade-launchers ready, and kept a sharp eye out for snipers.
That same day, when it was time to board buses for Houston, soldiers had trouble controlling the crowd. People at the back of the mob crushed the people in front against barricades the soldiers put up to contain the crowd. Many people continued to yell obscenities whenever they saw a patrol go by. Some were afraid of losing their place in line and defecated where they stood. The Army Times reported that Sgt. 1st Class Ron Dixon of the Oklahoma National Guard had recently come home from Afghanistan. He said he was struck by the fact Afghanis wanted to help themselves, but that the people of New Orleans only wanted others to help them.
Refugees at the Superdome.
By the evening of Sept. 3, the Superdome was finally evacuated, but the state-of-the-art stadium was a reeking cavern of filth, human waste, and an unknown number of corpses. It, too, had been looted of everything not bolted down. Janice Singleton was working at the stadium when the storm hit. She said she was robbed of everything she had, including her shoes. As for the building: They tore that dome apart, she said sadly. They tore it down. They taking everything out of there they can take.
If anything, conditions were worse at the Convention Center. Although on high ground not far from the stadium, it had not been designated as a shelter. It was, however, beyond reach of the high water, and soon some 20,000 people were huddled in its cavernous halls. There were no supplies or staff, and for several days neither FEMA nor the National Guard seems to have known anyone was there.
Armed gangs took control, and occasional gunshots caused panic. There was no power, and at night the center was plunged into complete darkness. Degeneracy struck almost immediately, with rapes, robbery, and murder. Terrible shrieking tore through the night, but no one could see or dared to move. When Police Chief Eddie Compass heard what was happening, he sent a squad of 88 officers to investigate. They were overwhelmed by superior forces and retreated, leaving thousands to the mercy of criminals.
It was not until Sept. 2four days after the hurricanethat a force of 1,000 National Guardsmen finally took over from the armed gangs. Had we gone in with a lesser force we may have been challenged, innocents may have been caught in a fight between the guard and military police and those who did not want to be processed or apprehended, explained Lieutenant-General Blum.
Sitting with her daughter and other relatives, Trolkyn Joseph, 37, told a reporter that men had wandered the center at night raping and murdering children. She said she found a dead 14-year old girl at 5 a.m. on Friday morning, four hours after the girl went missing. She was raped for four hours until she was dead, Miss Joseph said through tears. Another child, a seven-year old boy, was found raped and murdered in the kitchen freezer last night.
Africa Brumfield, 32, explained that women were in particular fear: There is rapes going on here. Women cannot go to the bathroom without men. They are raping them and slitting their throats. Donald Anderson, 43, was at the convention center with his wife who was six months pregnant: We circled the chairs like wagons because at night there are stampedes, he said. We had to survive.
The very few whites in the crowd were terrified. Eighty-year-old Selma Valenti, who was with her husband, said blacks threatened to kill them on Thursday, Sept. 1. They hated us. Four young black men told us the buses were going to come last night and pick up the elderly so they were going to kill us, she said, sobbing. Presumably, the blacks wanted to take their places on the buses.
The center was not entirely without a form of rough justice. A National Guardsman reported that a man who had raped and killed a young girl in the bathroom was caught by the crowdwhich beat him to death.
At one time there were as many as seven or eight corpses in front of the center, some of them with blood streaming from bullet wounds. Inside, there was an emergency morgue, but a National Guardsman refused to let a Reuters photographer in to take pictures. Were not letting anyone in there anymore, he said. If you want to take pictures of dead bodies, go to Iraq. By Saturday, Sept. 3, the center was mostly cleared of the living. Refugees pulled shirts over their noses trying to block out the smell as they walked past rotting bodies.
The evacuation begins.
By the weekend, there were an estimated 50,000 soldiers and federal rescue workers in the city, but even the massive presence did not bring calm. On Sunday, Sept. 4, contractors working for the US Army Corps of Engineers came under fire. Their police escort returned fire, in what became a running gun battle. Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police killed four of the attackers.
By Saturday, police had set up a temporary booking and detention center at the New Orleans train station. State Attorney General Charles Foti said there were plans for a temporary court system, but no one knew how they were going to assemble juries or call witnesses. The grim business began of combing the drowning city for corpses and the remaining survivors.
Reactions
The world reacted with astonishment to sights it never expected to see in the United States. Anarchy in the USA, read the headline in Britains best-selling newspaper, The Sun. Apocalypse Now, said Handelsblatt in Germany. Mario de Carvalho, a veteran Portuguese cameraman, who has covered the worlds trouble spots, said he saw the bodies of babies and old people along the highways leading out of New Orleans. Its a chaotic situation. Its terrible. Its a situation we generally see in other countries, in the Third World, he said.
The comparison would have been insulting to some Third-Worlders. I am absolutely disgusted, said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, of the looters. The Sri Lanka native added: After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering. Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the worlds population is.
In the United States, the stark contrast between endless scenes of appalling behavior by blacks and rescue personnel who were almost all white was greeted with the standard foolishness. Some people accused the biased media of suppressing footage of rampaging whites and heroic black helicopter pilots.
Most blacks made excuses for looters. Desperate people do desperate things, said U.S. Rep. Diane Watson of California. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., Democrat from Illinois, said we must not judge harshly: Who are we to say what law and order should be in this unspeakable environment? Rep. Melvin Watt, North Carolina Democrat and chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, was perhaps the greatest ass of all: Whatever is being taken could not be used by anyone else anyway, he said.
Utility repair trucks on their way to New Orleans.
Many blacks took it for granted that federal relief was slow because the victims were black. Rep. Elijah Cummings said poverty, age and skin color determined who lived and who died. Hilary Shelton, director of the NAACPs Washington bureau, blasted disparate treatment of Katrina victims. Many black people feel that their race, their property conditions and their voting patterns have been a factor in the response, explained Jesse Jackson, Sr. He said the rubbish outside the Convention Center made the place look like the hull of a slave ship. Black activist and reparations-booster Randall Robinson said the relief effort was the defining watershed moment in Americas racial history. He said he had finally come to see my country for what it really is. A monstrous fraud.
U.S. Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick said she was ashamed of America and of our government. Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin shouted and wept on local radio, demanding of federal officials: Get off your asses, and lets do something, (and gave city workers a vacation when the feds arrived). There was an undercurrent of fury at a meeting of black leaders in Detroit. One audience member wanted to know whether the slow federal response was black genocide. Another shouted, African Americans built this nation. Descendants of slaves are being allowed to die.
One black man, observing the chaos from abroad, took a different view. Leighton Levy wrote in the Sept. 2 Jamaica Star: I am beginning to believe that black people, no matter where in the world they are, are cursed with a genetic predisposition to steal, murder, and create mayhem. He wanted to know why there was no footage of white looters: Is it that the media are not showing pictures of them looting and robbing? Or is it that they are too busy trying to stay alive, waiting to be rescued, and hiding from the blacks?
Most blacks and many whites fell into the usual assumptions about omnipotent white government and helpless Negroes. If black people were suffering it was because whites had not done enough for them. It did not occur to them that it was the responsibility of New Orleans and the state of Louisiananot the federal governmentto prepare for hurricanes. Before the storm hit, Mayor Nagin issued a mandatory evacuation only under pressure from the Bush administration. The mayor then did nothing to enforce the order, leaving hundreds of city buses and school buses to drown rather than use them to offer transportation to people without cars.
Something of the mood of black New Orleans was caught by Fox News film crews as late as Sunday, Sept. 4. White volunteers were trying to persuade a black woman and her small children to leave her flooded house. Youve got to get out, they explained. The water isnt going away. A black man at the top of a multi-story building told a helicopter crew he didnt need to leave. All he needed was some supplies.
These people could not understand something that was obvious to the whole world: New Orleans had no electricity, no plumbing, no transport, and no food. Blacks refused to leave their flooded homes, even though to stay meant near-certain death.
Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff noted how crazy it was to stay in the wreckage. That is not a reasonable alternative, he said. We are not going to be able to have people sitting in houses in the city of New Orleans for weeks and months while we de-water and clean this city.
FEMA reported that it had pulled three Carnival Cruise Lines ships from commercial duty to shelter the blacks of New Orleans. Maybe the chance of berth on the Ecstasy, the Sensation or the Holiday would be enough to drag them out of the muck.
Lessons
Ninety-nine percent of the white people left New Orleans when the evacuation order went out. Some 80,000 backs could not or would not leave. Whites did not leave them behind, as the editorial-writers keep telling us. No one could have gotten some of them to leave, but if it was anyones job to give them the option, it was that of the black-run city government. Of the blacks who stayed, probably only a minority committed crimes, but they were enough to turn the city into a hell hole. Some did unspeakable things: loot hospitals, fire on rescue teams, destroy ambulances. No amount of excuse-making and finger-pointing can paper over degeneracy like that. Black peopleand only black peopledid these things.
Military helicopter drops supplies.
The Superdome and the Convention Center were certainly unpleasant places to spend three or four days, but 50,000 whites would have behaved completely differently. They would have established rules, organized supplies, cared for the sick and dying. They would have organized games for children. The papers would be full of stories of selflessness and community spirit.
Natural disasters usually bring out the best in people. They help neighbors and strangers alike. For blacksat least the lower-class blacks of New Orleansdisaster was an excuse to loot, rob, rape and kill.
Our rulers and media executives will try to turn the story of Hurricane Katrina into yet another morality tale of downtrodden blacks and heartless whites, but pandering of this kind fools fewer and fewer people. Many whites will realizesome for the first timethat we have Africa in our midst, that utterly alien Africa of road-side corpses, cruelty, and anarchy that they thought could never wash up on our shores.
To be sure, the story of Hurricane Katrina does have a moral for anyone not deliberately blind. The races are different. Blacks and whites are different. When blacks are left entirely to their own devices, Western Civilizationany kind of civilizationdisappears. And in a crisis, civilization disappears overnight
Decent middle class might be able to help eachother, but if you go lower than that you find people without jobs, and people that never get too much simpathy from others around them. So, the majority in new Orleans happens to be black, well, obviously you'll see more black people doing bad things.
Also, don't forget that it was white people that in the first place miserably failed to keep a such predictable and forewarned disaster from happening, pretty much sentencing thousands of people (or whatever the toll is) to death, plus wasting taxpayers money and hurting the whole oil economy of the country ...out of greed.
So the 'poor black people' were let down big time by the 'rich white people'. While it's hard to excuse their behavoir, it's even harder to excuse the rich's white people behavoir.
Also, if people are a product of the society they live in, it just goes to show how well white people treats minorities.
Interesting article. But I think it highlights the problems of welfare, not blacks or whites. New Orleans is a welfare city with many thousands of poor who feel poor.
[ QUOTE ]
New Orleans is 67 percent black, and about half the blacks are poor.
[/ QUOTE ]
The same thoughts of a single race causing chaos crossed my mind. But, can't blame them for what they did. Still hard to believe. New Orleans became Africa for a couple days. We don't hear about all the shit happening over there. In a different perspective, I think racism is alive in America, but the tables have turned.
Its not because they are black its because they smoke crack....jared taylor is a fuckin douche bag.
sorry, that article wasn't really informative, and kind of a waste of time.
Sorry im just completly intolerant to racists....
"The races are different."
That about says it all, this guy's full of shit.
Edit: Googled 'American Renaissance' since I'd never heard of it and got this
[ QUOTE ]
American Renaissance
A conservative monthly publication. Promotes a variety of white racial positions.
[/ QUOTE ]
So there's no doubt he's racist, but then why are we even considering his article?
Heard an interesting thing on CNN, which came from the Red Cross. They were there in Lousiana with water/supplies, and were ready to go in on Thursday of last week (faster than the average 4-day disaster response time), but Col. Mayeaux told the Red Cross NOT to go into the city. They were told to wait 24 hours. After this, the massive evacuation effort took place, so the Red Cross never had the opportunity to help anyone in New Orleans, even though they were ready to.
Pretty jacked up.
Personally I think different races ARE different - we are clearly genetically divergent to some extent, although not as much as some would think. We're not different subspecies though. If the political circumstances were reversed and the poor, uneducated race left in N.O. were caucasian, asian, hispanic etc. with a significant portion (1% or more) addicted to crack, and being chronically pissed off in the first place that your ancestors had been kidnapped and sold into slavery and abused for a few hundred years by the current ruling (or at least more affluent) race that already got out of N.O. because of said circumstances, you'd have the same situation IMO. We're not so different.
One notable difference between races often cited by racists is the physical prowess of blacks vs whites, and reference to them being "closer to the jungle" (from an evolutionary point of view), having the majority of entire NFL teams composed of refrigerator-sized black men etc.
I recall a conversation I had with my black friend Corey about this that made alot of sense.
For a couple hundred years there existed a bunch of lazy white guys (North AND South) buying and selling slaves and working them like farm animals. They were already predisposed to physical talent and they got big. I've had over a dozen good black friends and generally yes, they are more physically talented than whites. Are they less capable intellectually? No. In fact I'd go so far to say that they are more capable for the mere fact that they have to try harder. Your average white Joe/Josephine Schmuckatelli in the US can get along just fine in his community with being intellectually lazy but the same black person would just be labelled a "lazy nigger". I do think we're all different but the differences that matter are circumstantial.
"The races are different."
That about says it all, this guy's full of shit.
So there's no doubt he's racist, but then why are we even considering his article?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the races are different, which is why we have the word "race". The fact that I am "native american" means that I and my distant blood relatives get a monopoly over gambling in many states, and because of our cultural background we have a tendency to be somewhat socialist in our views of property, hence my occasional check in the mail. If getting money in the mail because of my race doesn't count as a difference, I don't know what would.
Maybe we are considering the article based on what it is saying rather than the beliefs of the person who wrote it.
Actually, I find the attitude that "we are all the same, and race is meaningless" about the same as saying "if we give [insert non-white race here] enough money and education, they will become (culturally)white". We have to accept racism (the idea that the races are different) before we can start fighting prejudice (people treating groups unfairly based on stereotypes)
Have you even ever talked to a black person? I mean, did it seem like they were even trying to achieve some white vision of success? Although many whites find it hard to believe, blacks don't want to be white or act like white people.
Ninjas, you don't know what you're talking about. Go ask a cross section of people from all races and you find no discernable trend in wants and desires. The idea that all members of any group want the same thing is stupid and wrong.
I cant decide if you guys are racist as well or just ignorant.
In terms of education, I think I'm okay. I took an upper division class in econ about race, where we discussed the existing data. I have probably taken more biology classes than you too, since know that the amount of different DNA doesn't matter so much as where the differences are. Just because sickle cell anemia is a disease caused by a single mutation, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
You say I'm stupid and wrong because I believe "all members of any group want the same thing". Actually, I think most people are smart enough to know that when I am referring to a group or a category, and make a statement, that I don't have to qualify every single sentence.
It seems you have a hard time with the idea of grouping like things. Just because I say dogs are hairy or cars have 4 wheels, does not mean that there aren't exceptions. If that is what you thought I was saying, I feel sorry for you.
What makes you think race exists as anything more than a social construct, in which case it'd be more a question of class than genetics?
[ QUOTE ]
It seems you have a hard time with the idea of grouping like things.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I do have a problem with prejudice. It bothers me to no end and when I find myself practicing it Im at least self-aware enough to know Im doing it and at least I know Im wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
Weiser, usually different races split into different social groups with each group having its own rules and customs. That's what he's talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, he mentions DNA in his argument. It sounds as if he agrees with that racist article. If hed like to clarify his argument Im waiting for him to clarify his point.
Thread closed.