I would have to say that, yes, this is Polycount at it's most disgusting. Partisan opportunism in the face of such a disaster is vile and unseemly. In any disaster it's the local and state authorities that are the first responders. America is not a tiny country so there is a lot of local authority granted to those that are there. The fact that Governor Blanco dithered might be part of the problem? It took the US 48 hours to get aid to the Tsunami victims, mostly because we ran roughshod over the local authorities (see Banda Ace) Here, there is standard buireacratic inertia, because things have to be done through channels, and couple this with the fact of New Orleans rather byzantine local politics, and the fact there are NO ROADS ABOVE WATER INTO THE CITY, getting the trucks of supplies from California that left monday is a problem too.
Looking at this thread, you can pretty much see the opportunists, and those folks who's opinions lack maturity, experience, or more to the point cease to matter to me any more.
This bnoard was set up to help people. I have tried to live by that by giving critiques, writing tutorials, and getting peoples models into UT, but this is just disgusting,and yu ought to be ashamed of yourselves exploiting sucha tragedy just to score some points.
Scott
[/ QUOTE ]
Scott I for one certainly and truly appreciate your contributions to Polycount and the community at large, however they and your veteran status are irrelevant to this General Discussion and do not lend any gravity to your argument. In short, if you don't like this discussion, either educate us or stay out of it, but take personal potshots at myself such as "vile" "disgusting" "opportunistic" "immature" "inexperienced" and that my opinions no longer matter to you, and my retort to you might be something along the lines of "Shove it up your trite ass."
[ QUOTE ]
...and the fact there are NO ROADS ABOVE WATER INTO THE CITY, getting the trucks of supplies from California that left monday is a problem too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes me wish we had all those helicopters that are over in Iraq.
[ QUOTE ]
This bnoard was set up to help people. I have tried to live by that by giving critiques, writing tutorials, and getting peoples models into UT, but this is just disgusting,and yu ought to be ashamed of yourselves exploiting sucha tragedy just to score some points.
[/ QUOTE ]
Suggesting that someone like me was 'scoring points' implies that I have something to win. That's not the case. Remember, while this board is intended to help others with their art, this is the general discussion portion of this board. So being upset that politics are being tossed back and forth in a thread such as this makes no sense to me.
While you bring up a point that it's the state that's supposed to react first in situations like this, this was more than just a mear hurricane. This is 9/11 porportions. We criticized Bush for taking 11 minutes to jump into action back then (mind you, I didn't, but alot of people did), It's only natural to do the same when he takes a full day to jump into action this time.
We as humans need to place blame somewhere, it helps us blow off steam. For now, all the fingers point to the administration. I'm sure if a Democrat handled it the same way, we'd blame him just as much. This goes beyond the simple red vs. blue. Either way, This is possibly the worst effort ever on their behalf. In the end, I want credit given where credit is due. FEMA and the Red Cross should get massive funding for their heroics during this disaster.
I'm sadden that someone of your status on this board can get so offended so easliy and blame us for trying to vent our frustrations. I hate politics, I really do, and this is the only place I'd ever even think about discussing them because I know that everyone here are my true peers. I can get the most honest, broad range of political views right here that actually refelect my train of thought.
So, is this board being disgusting just because we're not sharing your opinion? I think not. I'd say it woud be disgusting if we made fun of the tragedy. Discussion is not disgusting. Trying to understand what's going on and talking about what we feel went wrong is far from disgusting. Having people from other countries sharing their sympathies and talking about what they feel went wrong, disgusting? When we stop caring, then I'll feel disgusted.
The incidents in the already crippled city came after Louisiana's governor said 300 "battle-tested" National Guardsmen were being sent to quell the unrest.
"They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," Kathleen Blanco said.
Its a sad day when American Troops are being sent to an American city to kill American Citizens. Looting? Bad. Shoot to Kill? BAD.
Thankfully releif efforts are kicking in, but as an outsidr looking in, I like billions of others are asking WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG? Why were initial offers of aide turned down?
It's not like there wasn't a week of warning of the hurricane hitting the mainland. It's not the first time hurricanes have hit, so people have experience in dealing with hte aftermath. So why did it take 4 days?
I believe the words from the flooded streets of New Orleans has proven FEMA to be a disgrace. While people are dying, FEMA is accepting calls to help relay the extent of damage to the homes of those who left safely.
Scott I really can't get your beef? your only comment about this terrible disaster is that you don't like people talking about it and would rather stick your head in the sand.
For those of us on the outside looking in, who have no major beef with America (I guess that's a large portion of us) fail to understand how such a great and powerfull country can be more fussed with war than aid. Sure there's no roads, but are we really to believe that the highest risk area of natural disaster in the whole of america has no other contingency plan than to deploy troops and shoot it's own people instead of deploying food and aid?
Katrina is a bitch, however there have been warnings for years that a lady like her was on the way. Nice one Bush!
I can't find evidence from other disasters, except hurricane Andrew, but it seems like 3-4 days to get completely mobilized is the average response time. People always complain and point fingers but it seems like the prevalence of the internet is blowing things out of proportion.
Look at all the disasters that are being dealt with and the extreme level of bureaucracy that is involved, I can't believe I'm saying this, but cut Bush some slack.
Iv decided to keep my big mouth shut on this thread since Im not a US citizen or really cant relate to the whole thing, but now I just have to make a comment.
CNN Quote.
The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Thursday those New Orleans residents who chose not to heed warnings to evacuate before Hurricane Katrina bear some responsibility for their fates.
What an arrogant piece of shit, I hope he drown in his own tub. Did he expect old poor grandma without any legs to wheelchair her way out of there? I remember thinking before the storm, why are they ordering people to evacuate but not offering help to the people dont have any means to?
[ QUOTE ]
I think both you and Neo missed the earlier post by Mr. Ruggels where he arrogantly and self-righteously called those of us who don't agree with his personal world view "opportunists" who "lack maturity and experience." In any event, I was being sarcastic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah sorry about that man, didn't catch the sarcasim.
[ QUOTE ]
CNN Quote.
"The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Thursday those New Orleans residents who chose not to heed warnings to evacuate before Hurricane Katrina bear some responsibility for their fates."
[/ QUOTE ]
You are right, it is an arrogant thing to say. I didn't hear him say it, but I will assume you and CNN are correct anyway.
It still was the truth. I have never heard in my lifetime the of frantic evacuation like it was for this storm.
These are the people who stayed.
(1) The ones who had no way to leave, and I'm sure there were many.
(2) The ones who refused to leave because they had heard it all before. Believe me there were a lot of these folks too. Still they deserve help despite their mistake.
(3) The ones who stayed so they could loot should the occassion arise, and it did.
(4) The ones who were let out of the county lockups so they wouldn't drown.
(1) The ones who had no way to leave, and I'm sure there were many.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, tell me what Im missing. Your saying he is correct in that its the people who were left behinds responsiblity? Yet above you admit that some had no way to leave (Im assuming financially, medically, or other).
So in short by agreeing with him, you are saying these people are responsible for being there. Its their own fault?!?
ok, I need to change my post, apparently Kanye has a reputation for this, he said the US Government invented AIDS at Live8, so I think NBC just wanted a little controversy.
The Garry Lab, Tulane University School of Medicine, New Orleans, USA
This is a building that houses some of WORST infectious diseases in the world, its called a Level 4 lab. There are only a few of these in the country...its just a few blocks from the SuperDome.
Its has been flooded.
Now, we've all heard about people "looting" hospitals for medicines and what not. Just imagine this facility getting broken into, vials trashed as people search for insulin, peroxide, first aid kits.
And you wonder why people are being turned away from the border at gun point? Could it be to stop an epidemic? An outbreak? Hell, the monkeys that they tested on were kept at an OUTDOOR facility.
It CAN happen...especially with all the toxins in the water to begin with.
And you wonder why it yook 5 days for us to finally move in with troops and aid.
It's a time to take more seriously "The Convention of KYOTO" .
It's a time for US government to think about it ...
and sign up and respect this "The Convention of KYOTO". The weather is going to be worse .
This is a building that houses some of WORST infectious diseases in the world, its called a Level 4 lab. There are only a few of these in the country...its just a few blocks from the SuperDome.
Imangine how many movies could (and will) be made from that 50 years from now...
[ QUOTE ]
considering global warming has nothing to do with hurricanes, no.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's on the contrary.It's just one part of the danger at the warming our planet.
Probably the hurricanes will be more offen and more violent.
As far as that september 11th picture he was reading a book to a fairly large room of kids. while in the middle of reading a book a SSAgent walked over and whispered in his ear "We are under attack mr. president." He paused for a second and thought and then continued the book. Not to freak everybody out by jumping and running. He was almost through the book.
Some of you people act like he's not doing anything. Some of you probobly had your dicks in your hands when the huricane hit... or even when the planes went crashing through buildings. Everybody was cought off guard. I'm so tired of people acting like he's doing nothing.
Here's one way of looking at it. Do WE say "Oh my god, london was so not prepaired for the bombings that its got to be someone's fault." This stuff even happened after we got attacked. Come on people... you can't have it both ways.
As far as the huricane goes yes, he should have acted quicker. I'm really disappointed with him as far as this goes.
so, if i get this right guys, what you are saying is in fact that bush is actually the reason for the hurricane?
is he also the reason why americans are (considered by some people to be) stupid? surely, then, he is also the reason as to why america is the most materialistic counry ive been to. he's probably resposible to the poor performance of the us army as well.
yes, it's all his fault, obviously. damn texas rangers.
because i think schwarzenegger is just not *quite the right choice.
[ QUOTE ]
so, if i get this right guys, what you are saying is in fact that bush is actually the reason for the hurricane?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, what we are saying is that the intense flooding could have been prevented if the Bush administration had not cut funding to prevent the levee from breaking in the event of a level 4-5+ hurricane.
We are also saying that the federal government's response time as well as what they accomplished under his leadership in the first week immediately following the hurricane has been, in Mr. Bush's own words, "unacceptable."
Finally, we are saying that "Mr. Bush hates black people" (This bit is <u>SARCASM</u>; for those of you who don't read the entire thread or click the links before you reply )
[ QUOTE ]
I think that's on the contrary.It's just one part of the danger at the warming our planet.
Probably the hurricanes will be more offen and more violent.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would really like to know the source from which you got "probably the hurricanes will be more often and more violent."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so, if i get this right guys, what you are saying is in fact that bush is actually the reason for the hurricane?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, what we are saying is that the intense flooding could have been prevented if the Bush administration had not cut funding to prevent the levee from breaking in the event of a level 4-5+ hurricane.
[/ QUOTE ]
no, no no no. if the levees were in tip top shape flooding still would have only dropped about a foot if they lasted, which does not equal prevented flooding. the levees could only withstand a lever 3 hurrican at any rate they would have still crumbled.
An increase in the surface temperature of the Alantic ocean (edit:may or may not) cause more frequent and powerful hurricanes, so we should or should not take precautions.
(I'm sorry, this is only a theory. Maybe I should make that clear.)
"In order to form, a hurricane must have ocean temperature of at least 80 degrees down to a depth of 164 feet,
Sea surface temperatures all over the tropics are running 1.8 to 3.6 degrees above normal. This is due to global warming. Thus, when other factors line up to form a storm, a warmer ocean means it will be all the more powerful and destructive."
Most experts will only agree that hurricanes will be more powerful, but not more frequent. I say that's bullshit (whooops, only my opinion here. don't start calling the newspapers.). If tropical depressions now have all the requirements to quickly become powerful hurricanes, then you have an environment where more will occur. Looking at the most recent hurricane seasons can be proof of that (but what do i know. i just sit around playing video games. so maybe i should never say anything about anything, because discussions kill unicorns). The waters in the Gulf and Carribean are unusually warm, which allowed Katrina to maintain it's strength.
The oceans absorb most of the trapped heat in the Earth's atmosphere. This is why the Kyoto treaty should be taken seriously.
Replies
[ QUOTE ]
I would have to say that, yes, this is Polycount at it's most disgusting. Partisan opportunism in the face of such a disaster is vile and unseemly. In any disaster it's the local and state authorities that are the first responders. America is not a tiny country so there is a lot of local authority granted to those that are there. The fact that Governor Blanco dithered might be part of the problem? It took the US 48 hours to get aid to the Tsunami victims, mostly because we ran roughshod over the local authorities (see Banda Ace) Here, there is standard buireacratic inertia, because things have to be done through channels, and couple this with the fact of New Orleans rather byzantine local politics, and the fact there are NO ROADS ABOVE WATER INTO THE CITY, getting the trucks of supplies from California that left monday is a problem too.
Looking at this thread, you can pretty much see the opportunists, and those folks who's opinions lack maturity, experience, or more to the point cease to matter to me any more.
This bnoard was set up to help people. I have tried to live by that by giving critiques, writing tutorials, and getting peoples models into UT, but this is just disgusting,and yu ought to be ashamed of yourselves exploiting sucha tragedy just to score some points.
Scott
[/ QUOTE ]
Scott I for one certainly and truly appreciate your contributions to Polycount and the community at large, however they and your veteran status are irrelevant to this General Discussion and do not lend any gravity to your argument. In short, if you don't like this discussion, either educate us or stay out of it, but take personal potshots at myself such as "vile" "disgusting" "opportunistic" "immature" "inexperienced" and that my opinions no longer matter to you, and my retort to you might be something along the lines of "Shove it up your trite ass."
...and the fact there are NO ROADS ABOVE WATER INTO THE CITY, getting the trucks of supplies from California that left monday is a problem too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes me wish we had all those helicopters that are over in Iraq.
[ QUOTE ]
This bnoard was set up to help people. I have tried to live by that by giving critiques, writing tutorials, and getting peoples models into UT, but this is just disgusting,and yu ought to be ashamed of yourselves exploiting sucha tragedy just to score some points.
[/ QUOTE ]
Suggesting that someone like me was 'scoring points' implies that I have something to win. That's not the case. Remember, while this board is intended to help others with their art, this is the general discussion portion of this board. So being upset that politics are being tossed back and forth in a thread such as this makes no sense to me.
While you bring up a point that it's the state that's supposed to react first in situations like this, this was more than just a mear hurricane. This is 9/11 porportions. We criticized Bush for taking 11 minutes to jump into action back then (mind you, I didn't, but alot of people did), It's only natural to do the same when he takes a full day to jump into action this time.
We as humans need to place blame somewhere, it helps us blow off steam. For now, all the fingers point to the administration. I'm sure if a Democrat handled it the same way, we'd blame him just as much. This goes beyond the simple red vs. blue. Either way, This is possibly the worst effort ever on their behalf. In the end, I want credit given where credit is due. FEMA and the Red Cross should get massive funding for their heroics during this disaster.
I'm sadden that someone of your status on this board can get so offended so easliy and blame us for trying to vent our frustrations. I hate politics, I really do, and this is the only place I'd ever even think about discussing them because I know that everyone here are my true peers. I can get the most honest, broad range of political views right here that actually refelect my train of thought.
So, is this board being disgusting just because we're not sharing your opinion? I think not. I'd say it woud be disgusting if we made fun of the tragedy. Discussion is not disgusting. Trying to understand what's going on and talking about what we feel went wrong is far from disgusting. Having people from other countries sharing their sympathies and talking about what they feel went wrong, disgusting? When we stop caring, then I'll feel disgusted.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9175553/#typoedthefirstone
The incidents in the already crippled city came after Louisiana's governor said 300 "battle-tested" National Guardsmen were being sent to quell the unrest.
"They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," Kathleen Blanco said.
Its a sad day when American Troops are being sent to an American city to kill American Citizens. Looting? Bad. Shoot to Kill? BAD.
Thankfully releif efforts are kicking in, but as an outsidr looking in, I like billions of others are asking WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG? Why were initial offers of aide turned down?
It's not like there wasn't a week of warning of the hurricane hitting the mainland. It's not the first time hurricanes have hit, so people have experience in dealing with hte aftermath. So why did it take 4 days?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/62/story.cfm?c_id=62&ObjectID=10343854
It seems like everyone was prepared for a disaster (from reading news beforehand) but nobody knew where and how bad it was going to be.
We're now being offered oil supplies from Europe and Canada.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/62/story.cfm?c_id=62&ObjectID=10343854
[/ QUOTE ]
good stuff
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.fema.brown/
I believe the words from the flooded streets of New Orleans has proven FEMA to be a disgrace. While people are dying, FEMA is accepting calls to help relay the extent of damage to the homes of those who left safely.
For those of us on the outside looking in, who have no major beef with America (I guess that's a large portion of us) fail to understand how such a great and powerfull country can be more fussed with war than aid. Sure there's no roads, but are we really to believe that the highest risk area of natural disaster in the whole of america has no other contingency plan than to deploy troops and shoot it's own people instead of deploying food and aid?
Katrina is a bitch, however there have been warnings for years that a lady like her was on the way. Nice one Bush!
Look at all the disasters that are being dealt with and the extreme level of bureaucracy that is involved, I can't believe I'm saying this, but cut Bush some slack.
CNN Quote.
The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Thursday those New Orleans residents who chose not to heed warnings to evacuate before Hurricane Katrina bear some responsibility for their fates.
What an arrogant piece of shit, I hope he drown in his own tub. Did he expect old poor grandma without any legs to wheelchair her way out of there? I remember thinking before the storm, why are they ordering people to evacuate but not offering help to the people dont have any means to?
I think both you and Neo missed the earlier post by Mr. Ruggels where he arrogantly and self-righteously called those of us who don't agree with his personal world view "opportunists" who "lack maturity and experience." In any event, I was being sarcastic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah sorry about that man, didn't catch the sarcasim.
CNN Quote.
"The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Thursday those New Orleans residents who chose not to heed warnings to evacuate before Hurricane Katrina bear some responsibility for their fates."
[/ QUOTE ]
You are right, it is an arrogant thing to say. I didn't hear him say it, but I will assume you and CNN are correct anyway.
It still was the truth. I have never heard in my lifetime the of frantic evacuation like it was for this storm.
These are the people who stayed.
(1) The ones who had no way to leave, and I'm sure there were many.
(2) The ones who refused to leave because they had heard it all before. Believe me there were a lot of these folks too. Still they deserve help despite their mistake.
(3) The ones who stayed so they could loot should the occassion arise, and it did.
(4) The ones who were let out of the county lockups so they wouldn't drown.
ROFL
It still was the truth...
(1) The ones who had no way to leave, and I'm sure there were many.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, tell me what Im missing. Your saying he is correct in that its the people who were left behinds responsiblity? Yet above you admit that some had no way to leave (Im assuming financially, medically, or other).
So in short by agreeing with him, you are saying these people are responsible for being there. Its their own fault?!?
Error!?!
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282151.html
I like how they cut to Chris Tucker and he has this "what the fuck?" look on his face!
At least he had enough guts to say his opinion versus acting. Can't have different views in the media now can we?
http://www.somethingawful.com
The Garry Lab, Tulane University School of Medicine, New Orleans, USA
This is a building that houses some of WORST infectious diseases in the world, its called a Level 4 lab. There are only a few of these in the country...its just a few blocks from the SuperDome.
Its has been flooded.
Now, we've all heard about people "looting" hospitals for medicines and what not. Just imagine this facility getting broken into, vials trashed as people search for insulin, peroxide, first aid kits.
And you wonder why people are being turned away from the border at gun point? Could it be to stop an epidemic? An outbreak? Hell, the monkeys that they tested on were kept at an OUTDOOR facility.
It CAN happen...especially with all the toxins in the water to begin with.
And you wonder why it yook 5 days for us to finally move in with troops and aid.
Satellite view of the Tulane School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1440+Canal+Street+New+Orleans,+LA&spn=0.004044,0.007196&t=k&hl=en
It's a time for US government to think about it ...
and sign up and respect this "The Convention of KYOTO". The weather is going to be worse .
http://unfccc.int/2860.php
I'm really sorry for all the poor people which couldn't leave New Orleans. That's terrible.
Imangine how many movies could (and will) be made from that 50 years from now...
Whats wrong with a little political discourse as long as it is kept respectful?
The point about funding for the levees is fair as for the reaction i cant really comment on not having much information on the subject.
considering global warming has nothing to do with hurricanes, no.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's on the contrary.It's just one part of the danger at the warming our planet.
Probably the hurricanes will be more offen and more violent.
Some of you people act like he's not doing anything. Some of you probobly had your dicks in your hands when the huricane hit... or even when the planes went crashing through buildings. Everybody was cought off guard. I'm so tired of people acting like he's doing nothing.
Here's one way of looking at it. Do WE say "Oh my god, london was so not prepaired for the bombings that its got to be someone's fault." This stuff even happened after we got attacked. Come on people... you can't have it both ways.
As far as the huricane goes yes, he should have acted quicker. I'm really disappointed with him as far as this goes.
is he also the reason why americans are (considered by some people to be) stupid? surely, then, he is also the reason as to why america is the most materialistic counry ive been to. he's probably resposible to the poor performance of the us army as well.
yes, it's all his fault, obviously. damn texas rangers.
because i think schwarzenegger is just not *quite the right choice.
so, if i get this right guys, what you are saying is in fact that bush is actually the reason for the hurricane?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, what we are saying is that the intense flooding could have been prevented if the Bush administration had not cut funding to prevent the levee from breaking in the event of a level 4-5+ hurricane.
We are also saying that the federal government's response time as well as what they accomplished under his leadership in the first week immediately following the hurricane has been, in Mr. Bush's own words, "unacceptable."
Finally, we are saying that "Mr. Bush hates black people" (This bit is <u>SARCASM</u>; for those of you who don't read the entire thread or click the links before you reply
I think that's on the contrary.It's just one part of the danger at the warming our planet.
Probably the hurricanes will be more offen and more violent.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would really like to know the source from which you got "probably the hurricanes will be more often and more violent."
[ QUOTE ]
so, if i get this right guys, what you are saying is in fact that bush is actually the reason for the hurricane?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, what we are saying is that the intense flooding could have been prevented if the Bush administration had not cut funding to prevent the levee from breaking in the event of a level 4-5+ hurricane.
[/ QUOTE ]
no, no no no. if the levees were in tip top shape flooding still would have only dropped about a foot if they lasted, which does not equal prevented flooding. the levees could only withstand a lever 3 hurrican at any rate they would have still crumbled.
(I'm sorry, this is only a theory. Maybe I should make that clear.)
"In order to form, a hurricane must have ocean temperature of at least 80 degrees down to a depth of 164 feet,
Sea surface temperatures all over the tropics are running 1.8 to 3.6 degrees above normal. This is due to global warming. Thus, when other factors line up to form a storm, a warmer ocean means it will be all the more powerful and destructive."
Most experts will only agree that hurricanes will be more powerful, but not more frequent. I say that's bullshit (whooops, only my opinion here. don't start calling the newspapers.). If tropical depressions now have all the requirements to quickly become powerful hurricanes, then you have an environment where more will occur. Looking at the most recent hurricane seasons can be proof of that (but what do i know. i just sit around playing video games. so maybe i should never say anything about anything, because discussions kill unicorns). The waters in the Gulf and Carribean are unusually warm, which allowed Katrina to maintain it's strength.
The oceans absorb most of the trapped heat in the Earth's atmosphere. This is why the Kyoto treaty should be taken seriously.
My apologies.
Scott
what
because i pressed a wrong key on the keyboard (while not looking, and not really caring) then im stupid?
i must be then! cuz i didnt even know!