Warframe Tennogen Contest Q&A

adam

Please use this thread to ask your questions regarding this contest. Digital Extremes is on hand to answer any questions you may have pertaining to the game, rules for the contest, Steam Workshop, and so on.

Polycount is here to answer any questions you may have about uploading your WIPs, starting threads, and so on.

Robobobo

If Item, made by team of 2-3 ppl wins, will they receive 1 greentooth each, or 1 for all?

adam

@Robobobo The trophies don't come cheap so unfortunately they're 1-trophy per entry, not per person.

Robobobo

@adam sounds fair, just wanted to clear that up right from the start of the contest. Thanks!

Haftoof

Seems like the best way robo would be to win two entries via collab for a two person team ^..~

Haftoof

For the Digital Extreme folks, from a design perspective how do you feel about taking previously symmetrical helms and making them asymmetrical? 

Incorporating into the previous color scheme:  Do you suggest that we retain the previous color scheme ratio's?

Any other tips and thoughts for what will really draws your attention? 

kary

Asymmetry is completely valid -- we haven't done tons of it in helmets, but there are a few examples.  Trying to keep a decent number of pixels / cm has to be in the back of your head, but all the better to do things that we haven't done a lot of.

Colour scheme ratio:  By and large that is a good idea as it'll help ground it in the style.  If you look at the example help files on creating a WF skin I've got one of Banshee's and the roll of the colours is more or less flipped:  https://warframe.com/steamworkshop/help/index.php?page=creating-a-warframe-skin  for a direct link.  

Not really any other tips yet, but will try to come up with some as we go along

Haftoof

For the purposes of the contest I assume that the skinning work will be for the helmet alone then.  Thanks for the answer...  

Vrav

Is a new head model now fair game outside the contest? Before it was only new textures, which was a little unusual

Haftoof

Well, surprisingly they said at one point that new normals could be created... new normals means you could re-do the surface of the model as long as it coincided with the original low-poly.  Interesting thoughts. 

After I finish up the head I will probably work on a new sword, but would be cool to re-do the full suit also to pair with them both. 

Vrav

new normals means you could re-do the surface of the model as long as it coincided with the original low-poly

exactly -- I'd started a new highpoly fit to the original low before this contest was announced, so I prob shouldn't bring it in as a contest entry, but in the meantime being able to provide a new lowpoly mesh would make my helmet more interesting (at this point, basic retexturing [incl normals] is pretty goofy and uninspired compared to a whole new helmet model). bleh

Zerythis

We are only focusing on the Helmet itself correct? I'm only asking because the polycount example entry has the full body skin.

pinkbubblegum

This contest looks like loads of fun!!!

I was curious though, for those who wanted to make alt helmets where could we acquire the character low poly models to make sure the helmet to neck connection is solid? I've been trying to look for the resources but my search powers are failing me...

Sorry if this question is silly and I just overlooked where it was

Edit: Oh! I was really silly and didn't know how to look haha. Sorry about that! For anyone else wondering, the original assets can be obtained here https://warframe.com/steamworkshop/help/index.php?page=content-files-and-examples

Edit Edit: I was checking out the LP for Mag in Max and noticed that her helm had 2 meshes for the cool animated galaxy effect thing. I'm assuming our alt helm would need to incorporate the double glass mesh as well? I'm mainly asking for tricount purposes xD

Also the tri budget listed under the Alt Helm tab of the Steam Workshop guide differs from the one in Technical Specifications (3,000 v 5,000)

Haftoof

@Pinkbubblegum When you download tennogen (on steam) there is a section that includes access to the base models.   From what I can tell the contest file contains low poly, but you can download the three starter models and there full texture packs and fbx/obj from the other sections.   I suspect the best way to handle it is to load the fbx into something like zbrush for comparison. 

MrAwexome

So, wait, are we creating a model swap for the helm or just a new skin(texture)? I've seen both things a couple places and wouldn't want to get rejected at the last minute because I didn't understand the rules.

Selaznog

I'm a little confused by the rules...So do we make a helmet from scratch? Does it have to match the original low poly helmet in-game? Is the silhoutte allowed to be different (ie instead of one horn, having 3 horns, etc)?

venain

Can we get the question about helmet geo answered? It's a bit of a roadblock not knowing if we can make a new low res.

Robobobo

HAFTOOF, indeed

DERebecca

@Selaznog

Yup, the contest involves creating a new helmet from scratch. It does not need to match the low-poly. It can have a different silhouette indeed.

Here are some examples from our 'Loki' alt-helmets:

http://i.imgur.com/ZATyGj4.jpg

venain

@DERebecca

Thanks for the clarification!

brandoom

Hey guys,

is there any way to see where abouts the hands will be placed on the weapons? The Jat Kittag in particular. And are animations possible in TennoGen?
Thanks!

Clyptic

Something I have not been able to find much on, unless I missed it, is color. Are there 5 colors max including the emissive? I have not quite wrapped my head around the tints, but that is the impression I get based on the in game customization. 

kary

Sorry all -- had a family health crisis that has kept me away for a few days.  Should be fine here out:

@brandoom
I will get a ref sheet together for that Thursday.

@Clyptic
Four tints for colour, 1 separate mask for Emis.  
Red = tint 0, Green = tint 1, Blue = tint 2, Alpha = tint 3.  There is a fair amount of coverage in the Tennogen help files, have you taken a look at those?  Otherwise probably just experimenting w/ the Tennogen app on a flat plane until it makes sense is the way to go.

Chase

Can we post the logo with our final renders for a portfolio piece when the contest is over?

THIRD_D4Y

Are floating pieces allowed? and do they need to be rigged?

kary

@brandoom Getting a quick hand position sheet uploaded as part of the help files now.  https://warframe.com/steamworkshop/help/index.php?page=hand-position-guide

@Chase Absolutely

@Third_D4y Floating pieces are allowed, but don't tend to do a lot of them.  Mag is an exception (as her powers all relate to magnetism it is a natural tie, so we almost emphasize that with her), but most of the time we don't do a lot of floating pieces.  

JonConley

With the Kronen, would it be ok to have a hand guard? Like:

Skella

For alt heads, what are we looking at for clearance around the neck? My particular problem is fine for the Excalibur when looking down, but I'm honestly uncertain how often they look up and if it will cause a clipping issue.

kary

@JonConley Hand guard should be fine.  Any animations that it could clip through are likely to have it happen sub frame.

@Skella

That is looking up pretty far.   The player's camera would be at the floor at this point (editor freecam to get that SS) and you are mainly accommodating the view of other players when someone has their Warframe look up.

Marshall_Vex

I have a question. Maybe few of them.
1. Tennogen tool won't open my .obj file. Why could it happen?
2. Can i delete Excalibur's default helmet in tennogen scene?

kary

@Marshall_Vex
1)  Directed the programmer to your thread.
2)  You can use the scene explorer on the right and select the head and move it far out of the way.  Or you can use your DCC app to make a copy of the Excalibur OBJ w/out a helmet in it.

Screamheart

If possible. Could someone put together a simple step by step tutorial with text and screenshots, for how I would make my maps for my helmet? I have a high poly and low poly model. I am using Z-Brush, xNormals, and Substance Painter. I figured out how to make UVs in Z-Brush, but have no idea how to organize them or how to match them up with the normal map I make in xNormals. 

I'm sorry this is an odd request, but I am new, and I'm not finding any good guides on this. If anyone wants to add me on Skype to see where I'm at and walk me through it. My skype is jakecassie. Thanks guys.

Marshall_Vex

Hello. i have another question. How can I make Excalibur's (reference mesh) helmet invisible in ZBrush?

Blob_monster

Is there a way to test our weapon models on a warframe? aka actually put it in its hands?

Del

Have we been provided with the texture maps of any helmets anywhere? I can't seem to actual example PNG's to open up and have a look. I plan to use Substance, but would still like to pick apart the channels of each map to make sure I match the style.

Thanks

KieranMcKay

Trying to submit my entry via the TennoGen tool,
Getting this error.. ''error 24: steamAPI CreateItem Failed!''

Everything else seems to be in order...
Any ideas how to fix?

kary

Marshall_Vex said:

Hello. i have another question. How can I make Excalibur's (reference mesh) helmet invisible in ZBrush?

Blob_monster said:

Is there a way to test our weapon models on a warframe? aka actually put it in its hands?

Del said:

Have we been provided with the texture maps of any helmets anywhere? I can't seem to actual example PNG's to open up and have a look. I plan to use Substance, but would still like to pick apart the channels of each map to make sure I match the style.

Thanks

@Marshall_Vex
Break the Excalibur obj into two pieces (split by group in Zbrush, or using your DCC application), then using the normal little eyeball icon in the subtool palette. 

@Blob_monster

Not at this time.  Might try to get something together before the end of the contest, but right now it would be using the move and rotate tools in the Tennogen app.  I might be able to get a character posed, and then move the hand's position to be at world origin -- very busy at work right at the moment so will be a bit.

@Del
We haven't put out a set of game ready maps yet -- less the ones with the Excalibur example.  I will touch base with Mynki and see if we have any characters that are done in PBR, Volt and Mag are still in Blinn-Phong, that he'd recommend as representative.

DESizzlingCalamari

@KieranMcKay
In order to investigate, could you PM me your Steam Community profile page?

DaganEldr

 I'd love to participate, but find myself rage quitting because I'm a bit new at this, and it seems like this is definitely something with knowledge restrictions on it that I have no easy time searching up in Google. However, I do still have a few questions...

Is it possible to use nothing but Zbrush to make the helmet in this contest?

If so, I'm curious as to what the poly limit would be, since I don't seem to know how to get a mesh that doesn't look like it ran into a window screen! Going from higher polygon counts (around 10k) to anything lower severely degrades my helmet mesh, and the polygons are so obvious at that point. I'm crazy stubborn and refuse to give up all together on the contest, but that's something that I've been left wondering since the instructions/guidelines say ABSOLUTELY nothing about it that I saw, yet clearly mentioning low poly.

Can I get some insight on this? Thanks!


EDIT: Nevermind! I found something in the guide I must have overlooked the first time. It'll be tricky to go from the higher count that I have to a lower count without messing up the details though. This is definitely a challenge! o:

kary

@DaganEldr Modeling in general is definitely beyond the scope of what we can help with here.  I did link a few tutorials from Youtube / etc, but it's a lot to take in for a four week contest.  Hope that you found the technical specs page, as that does have the tri counts.   https://warframe.com/steamworkshop/help/index.php?page=technical-specifications

KieranMcKay

** Fix to ''error 24: steamAPI CreateItem Failed!'' **

In case anyone encounters this problem I managed to solve the issue.
All I needed to do was add funds to my steam account wallet, this link gives detailed description:
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3330-IAGK-7663

Del

@kary  just to confirm, 5k tris is the poly limit for the helmet?

Port-Seven

Question regarding kronen -- should the grip be in the same position on our weapon or can it be lower down (ie. I think the grip on my concept is currently 3/4 of the way down the blade whereas the original looks to be about halfway)?

EDIT: Found my answer on the Steam workshop page.

Rekkou_109

Is it possible to extend the contest deadline? 1 month is enough to create a helmet, if you are working full time, but it's barely enough for people who do it on their spare time.

1 more week and so far only 3 finished entry, i believe we all can benefit from extended deadline, because DE's staffs will also be very busy because of the update 18

Clyptic

I am having issues trying to get the substance painter shader working. I see the tints for the shader in the viewer settings, but how do I connect up a mask or layers for those tint parameters? I am a bit newer to substance painter, but I just don't see any intuitive option. 

Takai

Clyptic said:

I am having issues trying to get the substance painter shader working. I see the tints for the shader in the viewer settings, but how do I connect up a mask or layers for those tint perimeters? I am a bit newer to substance painter, but I just don't see any intuitive option. 

Im in the same boat. I found that that the "emmisiveTintcolor" is fully connected to the all the emmisive channels, but thats it. Any point in the right direction would help me finish up.

Edit: I am playing with it, and I am wondering if I am over-thinking it. So with the TintColors, do we assign them to a Layer (Substance Painter) and put a mask there, or do we paint the tint color on (ie: just paint the place you want RED) and then it will recognize it? Any help in this would be greatly appreciated. 

EYSSIX

@kary Just wanted to chime in on the substance evolution shader tint masks as well. I've tried similar ways of getting the tint mask to work. I was able to get the emissive working but other than that no luck with tints. I tried creating user channels and naming them TintColor0-3 for RGBA and setting my layers for Green & Blue to screen. no dice though. Input would be greatly appreciated on the tint mask in substance painter. Thank you so much!!!!

jeebs

Hi, I was hoping to upload my helmet to warframe workshop, but I got this error, and even after few reinstalling it didn't disappear. can't figure ut how to fix this.

BagelHero

@Clyptic @EYSSIX @Takai and @ Anyone else having trouble with the tintmap in Painter:

I feel bad leaving you guys floundering after I spent a day messing around trying to figure this out-- this isn't the best solution because you have to comp it together in Photoshop afterwards, but it gets it working in Painter at least. I made the extra channels user0 and a user1, user0 for RGB and user1 for alpha, then set up 3 fill layers, red, green and blue in user0, and a white one in user1 (in that layer order, bottom to top, underneath the diff layer), and black masked them off. I then used a white to paint in the mask where I want areas of that color to show. I just drew 4 different lines on the mesh and fiddled with the tint colors to make sure they all corresponded properly.

This was weird to composite in photoshop, and I'm sure there's a more export-friendly way to do it (maybe having these each in their own channel so you don't have to separate them out then put them back together all in PS?)-- but it works. In this screenshot, the "paint" layer under the Diff is just my emissive channel, to avoid confusion. Also, you don't have to set them as screen; I authored this as "normal" and only had them set to screen to see if it still worked (it does, but the export would be borked I think).


I hope this can give you guys a place to start, at least!

EYSSIX

Hey @BagelHero
Thank you so much for posting this. I was able to get my tint masks to work. However my red tint channel is affecting a paint layer further up the stack.

Any ideas on how where to look to fix this? Its some fine detail on the side of my helmet and its picking up the red tint channel from my user0 custom channel? not sure. tried turning off a bunch of things. its definitely in the red tint channel.

Thanks again!

Actually I was able to resolve it. I made a new inverted stencil and used it to mask a fill layer and that seems to have resolved the problem. Thanks again!

Takai

BAGELHERO:

Thank you very much, very helpful ^^