I think the ambiguity is intentional. The site is pretty similar to Tube Crush and i'm sure there's other. The whole act of voyeurism is kinda diminished if its an act. Of course in this case the moderator seems to act pretty responsibly, asking permission and informing the 'candid' men.
Yeah - if the people taking pictures for Tubecrush actually get up and talk to the guy, showing the picture and asking him "hey, I thought you looked handsome and took a candid picture of you. Are you okay with that ? Would you be okay with it being posted on this website right here ?" then that's pretty awesome and a very cool way to make contact with strangers. However their "legal" disclaimer makes me believe that it's not really the case, and that sums up the problem I have with these kind of websites. If the Men In the Games Industry website clearly stated that all pictures were posted with permission, things would be totally different.
Anyways - I'll slowly back out too, too many memes here
I guess I missed your post earlier but here you go.
You have like 6 posts total and half have been in this thread alone so perhaps you have totally missed something along the way, not quite following what I have said or maybe you just read parts of what has been posted and that was enough. I don't know.
First, I'm not a dude and it's kind of funny that you'd fall into the "no women on the internet" trap in the midst of this particular conversation.
Who called you a dude? Perhaps you should re-read the above line and see what I actually said. I never once said this site is run by a woman. In case you forgot here it is again.
Actually, I don't know if it is run by a woman, dude, Zeus or a god damn polar bear and honestly I don't care.
What I said in a much easier way to understand, is, I find it funny that when this happens to men it's "satire" but, with women, OMG! I am a piece of meat. I am being overly sexualized! Treat me fair! Did you know that female models that make these commercials are in fact paid for them and do not feel exploited and if they did, did you know that they can easily say "no, I don't think your commercial aligns with my particular interests and beliefs." GASP!!!!
Was that easy enough to understand?
Second. Who is falling for no women on the internet? Did you bump your fucking head? Seriously?
A whole Youtube video? The horror. I invite you to read the comments section of any pro-feminist video and then tell me more about how awful it is to have a video made for the purpose of disapproving of something you did.
Have you read "ANY" comments on anything on the internet? Jesus christ it isn't just your precious pro-feminist movement bra burning brigade videos. Some videos do have valid points, some not so much. That goes for anything and people are allowed to think whatever the hell they want. Just because you don't agree with it, or their views don't agree and align with yours doesn't make it wrong or unjust.
I don't see anything wrong with this website. There's certainly no legal issues. Those in the photos are named, and the photos are being commented on and not directly used for resale or cited as original works. Unless these photos were stolen from a private source, then there's no implication here. Making assumptions on such without proper research, in which I am in no position to conduct, is fruitless.
From an ethical standpoint, those arguing equal rights should reassess their position - as this would cover freedom of speech as well. An individual or group commenting on these pictures has the right to do so, and saying otherwise would actually be taking away from an individuals freedoms. While the site could be classified as a hate group, it is still well within their bounds to continue doing what they're doing.
Just to be clear. I never once stated anything about equal rights when I started. My original post was simple.
nothing more, nothing less... I honestly don't give a fuck. It is funny that something like this exists. It is also fucking hilarious that 2 females that have less than 20 posts combined come flying out of the woodwork fem flags a flying totally missing the point on what I was saying.
Your original comment is ridiculous though. people would've just rolled their eyes and say typical if it was the case. you just saw it as an opportunity to call bullshit on equality that's all.
no one is missing the point of what you're saying, what you're saying is down right stupid.
aaah there's a pretty gross mix of actual bigotry (inside, what the fuck?), general hateful caveman attitudes and depressing indifference to people saying really shitty things here. Logged in just to throw my support in for everyone upset that mrm bullshit was a moderator encouraged majority stance here.
man, this is literally why i stopped posting on polycount
This struck me as odd, so people with beards are inherently more trustworthy? :poly141: I think it's actually easier to disguise emotion and motive with more fur on your face. Does a "bald faced lie" apply to women who have trouble growing facial hair? Wait, did you mean BOLD faced lie?
I return you to your regularly scheduled shit-storm.
[/pause]
That's you. But you're posting multiple times a day into this thread, on a subject where you have declared that nobody cares and it's a non-issue.
What's the deal?
I return you to your regularly scheduled shit-storm about nothing important.
How the fuck is equality and equal rights and objectification of others "nothing important"? Fuck man. Some of the comments in this thread just go straight up my spine.
Your original comment is ridiculous though. people would've just rolled their eyes and say typical if it was the case. you just saw it as an opportunity to call bullshit on equality that's all.
no one is missing the point of what you're saying, what you're saying is down right stupid.
Ridiculous? In your opinion, maybe so just rolling eyes is the correct response. Ok, so the next time some woman is complaining about equality we should also just roll our eyes right?
So my first post in this whole thread was an opportunity to call bullshit on equality and that is it?
I gotta ask. Are you fucking retarded? Cause I am seriously curious as you don't seem to even understand what was said.
You can drop the emoticons, you're obviously not friendly.
At any rate, I look forward to you participating in a more useful way. Like, posting art, for example.
I'm very friendly~
And no, I dont post my work onlne. I've had a very successful carrerr for the past 2 years having a private portfolio. I dont need to be Tumbrl famous! (unless you count my furry porn blog) :poly121:
My guess is that you're a sock puppet account for someone who's too afraid to do their trolling in the daylight.
yeah i mean somebody just made an account in 2013 and introduced themselves as a 26 year old industrial designer with the express purpose of sock puppeting six months later.
jesse: she understands you just fine, she's just having trouble articulating the idea that those two things absolutely are not equivalent!
Sexism doesn't travel up the same way it travels down -- context and societal forces matter tremendously in how harmful or damaging something is -- and that several hundred years of history should never be ignored or brushed aside in the context of a discussion like this.
I'm pretty sure I've explained this to you before on this very forum, you can stop playing dumb and acting like you cant understand what her point is.
anyway peace guys ive got drinking and drawing to get done today.
yeah i mean somebody just made an account in 2013 and introduced themselves as a 26 year old industrial designer with the express purpose of sock puppeting six months later.
jesse: she understands you just fine, she's just having trouble articulating the idea that those two things absolutely are not equivalent!
Sexism doesn't travel up the same way it travels down -- context and societal forces matter tremendously in how harmful or damaging something is -- and that several hundred years of history should never be ignored or brushed aside in the context of a discussion like this.
I'm pretty sure I've explained this to you before on this very forum, you can stop playing dumb and acting like you cant understand what her point is.
anyway peace guys ive got drinking and drawing to get done today.
but that's wrong! Im 28... time flies.
Its not that im having trouble its more of the fact I cant take their arguments seriously if it's not plain obvious to them where their logic fails. it's like they dont live in this plain of reality.
In any case I'm just silly and they are silly.
I'm very friendly~
And no, I dont post my work onlne. I've had a very successful carrerr for the past 2 years having a private portfolio. I dont need to be Tumbrl famous! (unless you count my furry porn blog) :poly121:
Furry porn? not sharing work?
The heart of Polycount is the forum. Notoriously honest in critique, our community of professional and hobbyist artists have been posting, collaborating, and helping each other like no other 3D art website since Polycount began back in 1997. If youre looking to improve your skillset, learn new tricks or techniques, or just have an opinion on all things videogame art, be sure to check out the forum.
anyone can say they have had a successful career but for all I know you might not be able to draw stick figures.
Ludicrous statement, you are (allegedly) 28, grow up.
But if I grow up more I wont be able to fit into my clothes
so tell me, how many women's and humans rights activities have you fought so fervently as you've done here? since you claim you're not biased towards the neckbeard point of view. :poly124:
But if I grow up more I wont be able to fit into my clothes
so tell me, how many women's and humans rights activities have you fought so fervently as you've done here? since you claim you're not biased towards the neckbeard point of view. :poly124:
I think you should check your PM box before we start going into "Real" lives, bridget.
oh you mean this bullshit you sent me?
Hey you may not be expecting a PM from me but a fellow polycounter sent me this, while saying don't bother shes like 13.
<-- links to random person cut -->
now this is your private information and I firmly believe those who wish to be private should be, but I would urge you caution in the future.
lying and having such information open and available on the internet is not a good practice, and can have your real name dragged through the mud, and once somethings on the internet, it tends not to go away, this kind of BS can affect your career prospects and what not in the future.
So whatever you may think of me, I think you should secure yourself in the future, before you upset a real "Neckbeard" and they go all 4chan crazy on you.
and try to not be upset, at least I know you can draw a stick figure now lol
I especially love this line "and can have your real name dragged through the mud, and once somethings on the internet, it tends not to go away"
Indeed, that was me trying to be nice hence why I kept it in PM, you have been continually acting like a child saying everyone left and right is a neckbeard or discriminates against women, then you are surprised when people think you are 13?
Listen I am not even going to bother, someone sent me that and I thought incase it was you, better you know so you can secure it, but you want to make me out to be some kind of hate filled bigoted asshole go ahead, because ZERO fucks will be given for the opinion of a child.
Indeed, that was me trying to be nice hence why I kept it in PM, you have been continually acting like a child saying everyone left and right is a neckbeard or discriminates against women, then you are surprised when people think you are 13?
Listen I am not even going to bother, someone sent me that and I thought incase it was you better you know so you can secure it, but you want to make me out to be some kind of hate filled bigoted asshole go ahead, because ZERO fucks will be given for the opinion of a child.
whether its true or not we now have people playing internet detective and trying to spread others personal information because they're upset about things they said. Shouldn't that cross a line?
I'm all for letting people fight it out until they both get tired of it but this isn't going in a good direction
What I said in a much easier way to understand, is, I find it funny that when this happens to men it's "satire" but, with women, OMG! I am a piece of meat. I am being overly sexualized!
I explicitly explained that it's not just about the lack of clothes on the guys. I listed a bunch of examples of how women are objectified and sexualized that had nothing to do with not wearing clothes. I notice that you conveniently didn't bother to quote or respond to any of that.
do not feel exploited
Psychic now, are we?
and if they did, did you know that they can easily say "no, I don't think your commercial aligns with my particular interests and beliefs." GASP!!!!
Not if they want to continue working in the industry. When you're trying to make a living at something as hit or miss as modelling or acting, you take what jobs you can get. The vast majority of people in these kinds of fields don't have the luxury of being selective about what jobs they take.
Have you read "ANY" comments on anything on the internet? Jesus christ it isn't just your precious pro-feminist movement bra burning brigade videos.
You're missing my point here. The point is that on anything at all that is pro-feminist, there's always a ton of comments from people being actively and overtly misogynistic. There's a saying that proof of the continuing need for feminism can be found in the comments section of any pro-feminist article or video. I'm not talking about people just disagreeing. I'm talking about truly vile behavior that actually exemplifies the complaints being made in the video.
Some videos do have valid points, some not so much. That goes for anything and people are allowed to think whatever the hell they want. Just because you don't agree with it, or their views don't agree and align with yours doesn't make it wrong or unjust.
This is just pure bullshit. You're allowed to think whatever you want, absolutely. And when you say it out loud, others are allowed to tell you you're full of shit. Not everything is just a matter of opinion. Not everything is something that reasonable, decent people can disagree about and still deserve to be called reasonable or decent.
Again, I don't really have a problem with this site, and I wouldn't have a problem with a similar site with women, IF EVERYONE HAD GIVEN THEIR CONSENT.
In the absence of consent, I would consider it a bigger problem if the subjects were women, because of the wider context of a culture in which women routinely have their boundaries violated, are sexually objectified, and are just generally treated like lesser human beings than men.
I even explicitly said this before. It's not that it's OK to do this to men; it's that it's very much NOT the norm to do this to men. On the other hand, doing this to women very much IS the norm. It's the normalization of this stuff that is the problem, not the fact that it happens at all.
Replies
Yeah - if the people taking pictures for Tubecrush actually get up and talk to the guy, showing the picture and asking him "hey, I thought you looked handsome and took a candid picture of you. Are you okay with that ? Would you be okay with it being posted on this website right here ?" then that's pretty awesome and a very cool way to make contact with strangers. However their "legal" disclaimer makes me believe that it's not really the case, and that sums up the problem I have with these kind of websites. If the Men In the Games Industry website clearly stated that all pictures were posted with permission, things would be totally different.
Anyways - I'll slowly back out too, too many memes here
But this is too funny. I request it stickied.
You have like 6 posts total and half have been in this thread alone so perhaps you have totally missed something along the way, not quite following what I have said or maybe you just read parts of what has been posted and that was enough. I don't know.
Who called you a dude? Perhaps you should re-read the above line and see what I actually said. I never once said this site is run by a woman. In case you forgot here it is again.
What I said in a much easier way to understand, is, I find it funny that when this happens to men it's "satire" but, with women, OMG! I am a piece of meat. I am being overly sexualized! Treat me fair! Did you know that female models that make these commercials are in fact paid for them and do not feel exploited and if they did, did you know that they can easily say "no, I don't think your commercial aligns with my particular interests and beliefs." GASP!!!!
Was that easy enough to understand?
Second. Who is falling for no women on the internet? Did you bump your fucking head? Seriously?
Have you read "ANY" comments on anything on the internet? Jesus christ it isn't just your precious pro-feminist movement bra burning brigade videos. Some videos do have valid points, some not so much. That goes for anything and people are allowed to think whatever the hell they want. Just because you don't agree with it, or their views don't agree and align with yours doesn't make it wrong or unjust.
From an ethical standpoint, those arguing equal rights should reassess their position - as this would cover freedom of speech as well. An individual or group commenting on these pictures has the right to do so, and saying otherwise would actually be taking away from an individuals freedoms. While the site could be classified as a hate group, it is still well within their bounds to continue doing what they're doing.
nothing more, nothing less... I honestly don't give a fuck.
I edited this after because I feel some people will still miss the point.
Your original comment is ridiculous though. people would've just rolled their eyes and say typical if it was the case. you just saw it as an opportunity to call bullshit on equality that's all.
no one is missing the point of what you're saying, what you're saying is down right stupid.
man, this is literally why i stopped posting on polycount
stay classy, creeps.
justin -- i'd love to see a public fedora tally.
I return you to your regularly scheduled shit-storm.
[/pause]
That's you. But you're posting multiple times a day into this thread, on a subject where you have declared that nobody cares and it's a non-issue.
What's the deal?
How the fuck is equality and equal rights and objectification of others "nothing important"? Fuck man. Some of the comments in this thread just go straight up my spine.
And? what's your point :poly121:
Ridiculous? In your opinion, maybe so just rolling eyes is the correct response. Ok, so the next time some woman is complaining about equality we should also just roll our eyes right?
So my first post in this whole thread was an opportunity to call bullshit on equality and that is it?
I gotta ask. Are you fucking retarded? Cause I am seriously curious as you don't seem to even understand what was said.
What's that do do with anything? all I hear is you want me to post more! I can do that.
You'll see much more of me every day. :poly124:
At any rate, I look forward to you participating in a more useful way. Like, posting art, for example.
Same. That was a mistake...
I'm very friendly~
And no, I dont post my work onlne. I've had a very successful carrerr for the past 2 years having a private portfolio. I dont need to be Tumbrl famous! (unless you count my furry porn blog) :poly121:
She baits people into arguing then responds by laughing at them and posting memes.
How can you guys not see this?
yeah i mean somebody just made an account in 2013 and introduced themselves as a 26 year old industrial designer with the express purpose of sock puppeting six months later.
jesse: she understands you just fine, she's just having trouble articulating the idea that those two things absolutely are not equivalent!
Sexism doesn't travel up the same way it travels down -- context and societal forces matter tremendously in how harmful or damaging something is -- and that several hundred years of history should never be ignored or brushed aside in the context of a discussion like this.
I'm pretty sure I've explained this to you before on this very forum, you can stop playing dumb and acting like you cant understand what her point is.
anyway peace guys ive got drinking and drawing to get done today.
but that's wrong! Im 28... time flies.
Its not that im having trouble its more of the fact I cant take their arguments seriously if it's not plain obvious to them where their logic fails. it's like they dont live in this plain of reality.
In any case I'm just silly and they are silly.
time for a lock i think.
anyone can say they have had a successful career but for all I know you might not be able to draw stick figures.
http://www.deviantart.com/ this community may be more to your liking.
So you dont only discriminate against women you also discriminate against the pencil impaired? for shame... :poly117:
But if I grow up more I wont be able to fit into my clothes
so tell me, how many women's and humans rights activities have you fought so fervently as you've done here? since you claim you're not biased towards the neckbeard point of view. :poly124:
Argumentum ad hominem.
YEAH I thought so...
this is what happens when you delay an art contest
:poly124:
Nice, keep swinging! You're doing great.
Thanks. I wish I had as much time as you to post but you know how people with real lives are
I think you should check your PM box before we start going into "Real" lives, bridget.
oh you mean this bullshit you sent me?
Hey you may not be expecting a PM from me but a fellow polycounter sent me this, while saying don't bother shes like 13.
<-- links to random person cut -->
now this is your private information and I firmly believe those who wish to be private should be, but I would urge you caution in the future.
lying and having such information open and available on the internet is not a good practice, and can have your real name dragged through the mud, and once somethings on the internet, it tends not to go away, this kind of BS can affect your career prospects and what not in the future.
So whatever you may think of me, I think you should secure yourself in the future, before you upset a real "Neckbeard" and they go all 4chan crazy on you.
and try to not be upset, at least I know you can draw a stick figure now lol
Listen I am not even going to bother, someone sent me that and I thought incase it was you, better you know so you can secure it, but you want to make me out to be some kind of hate filled bigoted asshole go ahead, because ZERO fucks will be given for the opinion of a child.
you know what's the funniest thing? that girl from the instagram and the one from the facebook dont even look alike! :poly115:
You have been reported for harassment btw.
I assume you're the accomplice ;P you didnt even do a good job.
put your back into it next time.
whether its true or not we now have people playing internet detective and trying to spread others personal information because they're upset about things they said. Shouldn't that cross a line?
I'm all for letting people fight it out until they both get tired of it but this isn't going in a good direction
I explicitly explained that it's not just about the lack of clothes on the guys. I listed a bunch of examples of how women are objectified and sexualized that had nothing to do with not wearing clothes. I notice that you conveniently didn't bother to quote or respond to any of that.
Psychic now, are we?
Not if they want to continue working in the industry. When you're trying to make a living at something as hit or miss as modelling or acting, you take what jobs you can get. The vast majority of people in these kinds of fields don't have the luxury of being selective about what jobs they take.
You're missing my point here. The point is that on anything at all that is pro-feminist, there's always a ton of comments from people being actively and overtly misogynistic. There's a saying that proof of the continuing need for feminism can be found in the comments section of any pro-feminist article or video. I'm not talking about people just disagreeing. I'm talking about truly vile behavior that actually exemplifies the complaints being made in the video.
This is just pure bullshit. You're allowed to think whatever you want, absolutely. And when you say it out loud, others are allowed to tell you you're full of shit. Not everything is just a matter of opinion. Not everything is something that reasonable, decent people can disagree about and still deserve to be called reasonable or decent.
Again, I don't really have a problem with this site, and I wouldn't have a problem with a similar site with women, IF EVERYONE HAD GIVEN THEIR CONSENT.
In the absence of consent, I would consider it a bigger problem if the subjects were women, because of the wider context of a culture in which women routinely have their boundaries violated, are sexually objectified, and are just generally treated like lesser human beings than men.
I even explicitly said this before. It's not that it's OK to do this to men; it's that it's very much NOT the norm to do this to men. On the other hand, doing this to women very much IS the norm. It's the normalization of this stuff that is the problem, not the fact that it happens at all.