...can someone explain to me what the "fedora" thing is all about?
I would try to explain it, but this link does a much better job than I could ever do. In more recent times the "white knight" explanation is probably the most applicable.
Going back to the original topic, I'm more curious as to why a site like this was made in the first place. Even if it was pictures of women, it seems like a weird thing to do. What purpose does this serve? "Oh man that Lonewolf, I want to check him out anonymously over the internet and fantasize about that one picture of him I saw while crying myself to sleep because I lack basic art skills!"
Do these people know that there are pictures of them here? lol
And, yeah, you need to give permission / submit them yourself / they do take pics down if you ask. Someone had submitted mine, I got asked for permission.
I would argue that pretty much removes anything unseemly about it unless you're concerned about people showing off their own bodies as a concept.
I like the way folks just ignored what Gav said and continued with their ranting. Let's see it again.
Do try to be a little less defensive, gentlemen.
way he described it is someone else uploaded it and he okayed it, and sure they may take it down but some may not know it is up, some clarification would further lay it to rest though so theres no confusion, still overall I think the concept is, Patronizing, Gender biased and above all attention seeking.
my whole point with it all in case that wasn't clear was man vs woman or woman vs man doesn't matter. Both are wrong right? One isn't more wrong than the other and if you can say it is then that isn't equality that people are looking for.
Also years of abuse or whatever doesn't grant any special rights now. People should just fucking respect other humans and not be scumbags is the ultimate point.
God I'm laughing my ass off. I never thought his place could be so amusing.
to quote a female blogger " if you wouldnt call a woman a slut based on her clothes, why label somebody for wearing a fedora or Brony shirt?"
this is entirely my problem with this tumblr page, satire can be used correctly as a device to show the disparity in someones actions, but theres no disparity here as, as far as I have searched there has been nothing equating to this done with women.
this sort of behaviour turns gender equality into a joke.
to quote a female blogger " if you wouldnt call a woman a slut based on her clothes, why label somebody for wearing a fedora or Brony shirt?"
this is entirely my problem with this tumblr page, satire can be used correctly as a device to show the disparity in someones actions, but theres no disparity here as, as far as I have searched there has been nothing equating to this done with women.
this sort of behaviour turns gender equality into a joke.
You should know that gender equality is still a joke and that this tumbrl page is the least of anyone's problems. so this whole argument seems autismal at best.
Way to turn a lighthearted joke into something perverse, especially after it has been repeatedly told that people gave their consent.
but how many voyour websites are their in the internet of women? how many women around the world are still not only objectified but actually owned as property? give me a break. !
You dont have to defend men's rights, they're pretty well defended.
but how many voyour websites are their in the internet of women? how many women around the world are still not only objectified but actually owned as property? give me a break.
BUT no one here is saying that any of that is ok. That is beyond wrong and I am pretty sure everyone here feels the same way.
There's no evidence that these pictures were posted without permission, it seems silly to get upset. Definitely not any worse than booth babes, or crazy female armor that gets into actual games and not a silly small blog. And there's a lot of people that play/like/make games that don't have problems with either of those.
You should know that gender equality is still a joke and that this tumbrl page is the least of anyone's problems. so this whole argument seems autismal at best.
Way to turn a lighthearted joke into something perverse, especially after it has been repeatedly told that people gave their consent.
but how many voyour websites are their in the internet of women? how many women around the world are still not only objectified but actually owned as property? give me a break. !
You dont have to defend men's rights, they're pretty well defended.
pointing out hypocrisy=/= defending men's rights, but thanks for trying.
you can go over every atrocity in the world and not one is linked solely to women, whole families are owned as slaves, children are forced to work all day in the baking sun, all people of all colours and creeds have been exploited and objectified, the quicker we can end it the better, but we won't end it with hypocrisy and point scoring but equality and understanding.
I believe firmly in equal rights, not mens rights, not women's rights, but human rights based in equality, we are all people on this planet and should get along, but many seem to have double standards and seek only to cause strife as a "light hearted joke"
pointing out hypocrisy=/= defending men's rights, but thanks for trying.
you can go over every atrocity in the world and not one is linked solely to women, whole families are owned as slaves, children are forced to work all day in the baking sun, all people of all colours and creeds have been exploited and objectified, the quicker we can end it the better, but we won't end it with hypocrisy and point scoring but equality and understanding.
I believe firmly in equal rights, not mens rights, not women's rights, but human rights based in equality, we are all people on this planet and should get along, but many seem to have double standards and seek only to cause strife as a "light hearted joke"
I'm sorry but I cant even...:D! I understand what you're saying but its too much for my sides. ... they're in orbit... o lordy.
Actually, I don't know if it is run by a woman, dude, Zeus or a god damn polar bear and honestly I don't care.
First, I'm not a dude and it's kind of funny that you'd fall into the "no women on the internet" trap in the midst of this particular conversation.
Secondly, that's just a bald faced lie, because your original point was that it's hypocritical for women to do this when they object to having it done to them. And I specifically said I was fine with it if the guys in the pictures are fine with it and that I would be fine with it if it were women as well.
It does seem that they're not getting consent in advance which I'm really not OK with. But, given that they're taking pics down without a fuss and that this is, as Bridget pointed out above, a rain drop in comparison to an ocean, you'll have to forgive me if I save my outrage for something more pressing.
My point was still, if I made one about hot girls in the game industry than there would be a god damn youtube video about how bad of a person I am.
A whole Youtube video? The horror. I invite you to read the comments section of any pro-feminist video and then tell me more about how awful it is to have a video made for the purpose of disapproving of something you did.
You can't honestly say that women don't objectify men. NOT ALL WOMEN, just like not all men objectify women. I know it is not in the same way men have objectified women for years and through history and I am not trying to even remotely say it is close but lets not sit here and go full retard and pretend that there isn't websites and magazines for women that are constantly posting pictures of shirtless men.
a) Nobody said that there aren't websites and magazines that contain pictures of shirtless men.
b) You don't understand what objectification even is. It's not about pictures of shirtless men, it's about sexualization. It's about female comic book characters being drawn in spine breaking poses so their boobs and their ass can be visible at the same time. It's about women often being photographed with particular focus on their breasts or butt or legs in suggestive poses; as body parts for men to drool over and not as whole people. It's about women being used as props in advertising to sell a product. It's about how, even in 2014, the vast majority of movies can't pass the simple test of having named female characters having a conversation with each other about something other than a man.
It may not NEVER happen to men but it happens rarely enough that it can be regarded as anomalous when it does. That doesn't mean it's OK, it just means it's not the norm. The fact that this is the norm when the focus is women is the problem. Not that it happens at all; that it's the TYPICAL way women are represented.
the point is, you don't need to get your jimmies rustled because of a mere drop in an ocean in comparison
Now you've got me interested. So what size of event is needed before a response is justified? I'm curious about the scale. Is there one or is it such a large problem that, fuck it, why ever bother?
Right ... so the solution is to .. do ... what? Nothing? Is it your honest belief that not voicing concerns about things is the path to correcting them?
I'm a little confused as to what the arguments and statements in this thread are about. I don't really see what's wrong with the site or any similar site. As long as the people are ok with themselves being on it. You could easily imagine a blog of the "sexy women in gaming" or something like that, and I think this is just a humorous spin on that. There's probably an agenda there, I'm not sure I agree with that part of it, but viewing the site by itself I don't see the harm.
I can understand how people of either gender would not want to be reduced to just their looks, but if people can be respected as well as be appreciated for looks, then I think most would be flattered to be considered attractive. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it, giving attention to looks, it's part of being human. We all do it. We have an entire celebrity culture built around it (although celebrity culture takes it a bit far, a bit too personally intrusive).
With all the character artists here you'd think I'd be preaching to the choir, but I think there are other agendas at play where it's taboo to admit that people focus on what other people look like and that it's not inherently a bad thing. No shame as long as there's respect in my opinion (I'm assuming the agenda has to do with the 'respect' part).
That's why people talk about it a lot. Because it's a problem. If it wasn't a problem, it follows that nobody would talk about it. Dig?
The fact that you then dedicated 3 paragraphs to the discussion would lend credence to there being an issue here.
The further three paragraphs are describing how I fail to see the issue. The only problem I see is that people are making a problem of something that isn't really a problem. If people have an issue with a picture of themselves being online, and if they have an issue with strangers potentially oggling at them for being attractive, then they should ask for the image to be removed. There's no need to feel shame or the need to apologize for being inclined to focus on people or things that are attractive. It comes commonly with being human.
Jesus, can't people just have fun from time to time? Isn't it everyone's god-given right to post provocative pictures of themselves on the internet?
I think it would be beneficial if the blog clarified this part a bit. It's kinda unclear whether or not these pictures have been submitted by these (handsome) folks themselves or not. Now of course there's always going to be someone saying that it's their fault if they originally posted the picture on their Facebook in the first place. Sure enough - but that doesn't make the act of re-posting said picture without consent any better ...
Right ... so the solution is to .. do ... what? Nothing? Is it your honest belief that not voicing concerns about things is the path to correcting them?
What problem ?
When you go between lions, you behave like them or you get eaten.
It is simple law of nature.
The further three paragraphs are describing how I fail to see the issue. The only problem I see is that people are making a problem of something that isn't really a problem. If people have an issue with a picture of themselves being online, and if they have an issue with strangers potentially oggling at them for being attractive, then they should ask for the image to be removed. There's no need to feel shame or the need to apologize for being inclined to focus on people or things that are attractive. It comes commonly with being human.
I say it this way. If you, yourself put image on internet. Regardless of what you do, that image is now public property.
If you don't want your images over internet, you don't uploaded images of yourself, in the first place.
Try to remove them, and be sure that internet will go after you and do everything for that image to not be removed.
If I didn't know any better I would think that all of you complaining about images in public space, just got internet for 1 day and don't know what to do.
Bridget - You'd probably be taken a lot more seriously if you elaborated on your point rather than coming back to the thread and laughing at other's opinions or posting stupid memes - says a lot about your maturity.
I was thinking about a similar point the other day, what reaction would be given if there was role reversal in the famous 'Diet Coke ad' - A gorgeous women cracks open a can and ends up covering herself in it, removes her top to reveal a super toned body and huge rack and continues drinking in slo-mo while a bunch of guys gawk and whistle at her, bet that would go down well (...yes, I get its supposed to be a retort to the over-sexualisation of women in advertising, just making a point )
Regarding the site it doesn't really bother me that much since its just for a laugh, no harm, if its all consensual to have their pics on there then kudos to the guys. Damn hotties...ohh bay-beh! :O
Bridget - You'd probably be taken a lot more seriously if you elaborated on your point rather than coming back to the thread and laughing at other's opinions or posting stupid memes - says a lot about your maturity.
Nah. That images says everything. It's hard to comment something, when you just can't see the issue.
I honestly also don't see any issue, and it beyond my imagination, how people can make issue of it...
I think it would be beneficial if the blog clarified this part a bit. It's kinda unclear whether or not these pictures have been submitted by these (handsome) folks themselves or not.
I think the ambiguity is intentional. The site is pretty similar to Tube Crush and i'm sure there's other. The whole act of voyeurism is kinda diminished if its an act. Of course in this case the moderator seems to act pretty responsibly, asking permission and informing the 'candid' men.
Gotta say though, Jesse is pretty much right. If this was women, it'd be used as another damning condemnation of the sexist game industry and the institutionalised silencing/oppression of women. Permission or not would be irrelevant.
At the end of the day, it seems relatively well natured and whoever moderates is acting pretty responsible, i don't see a problem.
Bridget - You'd probably be taken a lot more seriously if you elaborated on your point rather than coming back to the thread and laughing at other's opinions or posting stupid memes - says a lot about your maturity.
My thoughts exactly. Using meme images to communicate is for teenagers stuck in their parents basement.
Nah. That images says everything. It's hard to comment something, when you just can't see the issue.
I honestly also don't see any issue, and it beyond my imagination, how people can make issue of it...
I find it bewildering that someone ... ANYONE ... in modern times with access to the internet doesn't see an issue in objectification of the sexes. There's just no way that you're not at least aware there's SOME issue there even if you're not fully versed in it.
To me, it's almost akin to saying that racism isn't an issue anymore.
I find it bewildering that someone ... ANYONE ... in modern times with access to the internet doesn't see an issue in objectification of the sexes. There's just no way that you're not at least aware there's SOME issue there even if you're not fully versed in it.
To me, it's almost akin to saying that racism isn't an issue anymore.
Racism is not an issue. The issue are people who play discrimination/racism card to push their agenda forward.
I honestly can't understand how anyone can treat text/image in internet as offensive.
Life would be much easier, if people just stop caring about this crap and just punch someone they don't like in the face.
edit:
To put it into perspective.
When I say something about women, black/yellow/red/blue/etc. people. gays, trans etc. They feel discriminated/offended/etc.
At this point I'm intolerant racist punished for telling my opinion.
But when they say something something I disagree, I should agree with them. Try to disagree, you are again marked as evil man.
In fact I couldn't care less who are, what color your skin have, or what your opinions are. As long as, you don't play intolerant racist card and you do your thing it doesn't matter.
As white male man I can feel now discriminated by all those minorities.
Look at the recent drama about CEO of Mozilla. He have been essentially punished for his believes. In organization that is supposedly all about freedom of expression.
Looks like the freedom ends, when you tell something that is not agreed by the current mainstream.
Racism is not an issue. The issue are people who play discrimination/racism card to push their agenda forward.
I honestly can't understand how anyone can treat text/image in internet as offensive.
Life would be much easier, if people just stop caring about this crap and just punch someone they don't like in the face.
edit:
To put it into perspective.
When I say something about women, black/yellow/red/blue/etc. people. gays, trans etc. They feel discriminated/offended/etc.
At this point I'm intolerant racist punished for telling my opinion.
But when they say something something I disagree, I should agree with them. Try to disagree, you are again marked as evil man.
In fact I couldn't care less who are, what color your skin have, or what your opinions are. As long as, you don't play intolerant racist card and you do your thing it doesn't matter.
As white male man I can feel now discriminated by all those minorities.
Look at the recent drama about CEO of Mozilla. He have been essentially punished for his believes. In organization that is supposedly all about freedom of expression.
Looks like the freedom ends, when you tell something that is not agreed by the current mainstream.
It is actually both. Racism is not an issue on the books but it is still there, untold. You cant prove it so it remains untold. Then there are those who play their discrimination and/or racism card to push their own agenda forward. But sometimes it is sort of necessary because a certain being needs to succeed in certain place where majority is not his own race. (Thats another topic.)
Coming back to the main discussion.
The way I see it; Everyone is entitled to their opinion and one shouldnt really take it to the heart especially on the internet where even a kid would know, that the flame wars are easier to start then to extinguish.
It doesnt make you a bad person to disagree with something or someone upon their opinion unless you are a CEO or known to the population, because then all eyes are on you and you will be judged on many levels.
EDIT: before someone claims that I did not read the previous posts and all, I assure you that I have. I wanted to correct Mr.inside regarding the racism part. I'll back off now and read on your discussion.
Replies
Going back to the original topic, I'm more curious as to why a site like this was made in the first place. Even if it was pictures of women, it seems like a weird thing to do. What purpose does this serve? "Oh man that Lonewolf, I want to check him out anonymously over the internet and fantasize about that one picture of him I saw while crying myself to sleep because I lack basic art skills!"
Do these people know that there are pictures of them here? lol
I would argue that pretty much removes anything unseemly about it unless you're concerned about people showing off their own bodies as a concept.
way he described it is someone else uploaded it and he okayed it, and sure they may take it down but some may not know it is up, some clarification would further lay it to rest though so theres no confusion, still overall I think the concept is, Patronizing, Gender biased and above all attention seeking.
Also years of abuse or whatever doesn't grant any special rights now. People should just fucking respect other humans and not be scumbags is the ultimate point.
Obviously some people missed my point.
to quote a female blogger " if you wouldnt call a woman a slut based on her clothes, why label somebody for wearing a fedora or Brony shirt?"
this is entirely my problem with this tumblr page, satire can be used correctly as a device to show the disparity in someones actions, but theres no disparity here as, as far as I have searched there has been nothing equating to this done with women.
this sort of behaviour turns gender equality into a joke.
You should know that gender equality is still a joke and that this tumbrl page is the least of anyone's problems. so this whole argument seems autismal at best.
Way to turn a lighthearted joke into something perverse, especially after it has been repeatedly told that people gave their consent.
but how many voyour websites are their in the internet of women? how many women around the world are still not only objectified but actually owned as property? give me a break.
You dont have to defend men's rights, they're pretty well defended.
BUT no one here is saying that any of that is ok. That is beyond wrong and I am pretty sure everyone here feels the same way.
the point is, you don't need to get your jimmies rustled because of a mere drop in an ocean in comparison
this guy maybe
but not me lol
yeah autism is funny
pointing out hypocrisy=/= defending men's rights, but thanks for trying.
you can go over every atrocity in the world and not one is linked solely to women, whole families are owned as slaves, children are forced to work all day in the baking sun, all people of all colours and creeds have been exploited and objectified, the quicker we can end it the better, but we won't end it with hypocrisy and point scoring but equality and understanding.
I believe firmly in equal rights, not mens rights, not women's rights, but human rights based in equality, we are all people on this planet and should get along, but many seem to have double standards and seek only to cause strife as a "light hearted joke"
That is good
I'm sorry but I cant even...:D! I understand what you're saying but its too much for my sides. ... they're in orbit... o lordy.
Tor and Reno pose off..... get to it. Per will direct the photoshoot
At least we are breaking the stereotype that we are all giant slug lord neckbeards with body pillow girlfriends and dumpster like body odor.
Truth.
First, I'm not a dude and it's kind of funny that you'd fall into the "no women on the internet" trap in the midst of this particular conversation.
Secondly, that's just a bald faced lie, because your original point was that it's hypocritical for women to do this when they object to having it done to them. And I specifically said I was fine with it if the guys in the pictures are fine with it and that I would be fine with it if it were women as well.
It does seem that they're not getting consent in advance which I'm really not OK with. But, given that they're taking pics down without a fuss and that this is, as Bridget pointed out above, a rain drop in comparison to an ocean, you'll have to forgive me if I save my outrage for something more pressing.
A whole Youtube video? The horror. I invite you to read the comments section of any pro-feminist video and then tell me more about how awful it is to have a video made for the purpose of disapproving of something you did.
a) Nobody said that there aren't websites and magazines that contain pictures of shirtless men.
b) You don't understand what objectification even is. It's not about pictures of shirtless men, it's about sexualization. It's about female comic book characters being drawn in spine breaking poses so their boobs and their ass can be visible at the same time. It's about women often being photographed with particular focus on their breasts or butt or legs in suggestive poses; as body parts for men to drool over and not as whole people. It's about women being used as props in advertising to sell a product. It's about how, even in 2014, the vast majority of movies can't pass the simple test of having named female characters having a conversation with each other about something other than a man.
It may not NEVER happen to men but it happens rarely enough that it can be regarded as anomalous when it does. That doesn't mean it's OK, it just means it's not the norm. The fact that this is the norm when the focus is women is the problem. Not that it happens at all; that it's the TYPICAL way women are represented.
Now you've got me interested. So what size of event is needed before a response is justified? I'm curious about the scale. Is there one or is it such a large problem that, fuck it, why ever bother?
I'm a little confused as to what the arguments and statements in this thread are about. I don't really see what's wrong with the site or any similar site. As long as the people are ok with themselves being on it. You could easily imagine a blog of the "sexy women in gaming" or something like that, and I think this is just a humorous spin on that. There's probably an agenda there, I'm not sure I agree with that part of it, but viewing the site by itself I don't see the harm.
I can understand how people of either gender would not want to be reduced to just their looks, but if people can be respected as well as be appreciated for looks, then I think most would be flattered to be considered attractive. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it, giving attention to looks, it's part of being human. We all do it. We have an entire celebrity culture built around it (although celebrity culture takes it a bit far, a bit too personally intrusive).
With all the character artists here you'd think I'd be preaching to the choir, but I think there are other agendas at play where it's taboo to admit that people focus on what other people look like and that it's not inherently a bad thing. No shame as long as there's respect in my opinion (I'm assuming the agenda has to do with the 'respect' part).
The fact that you then dedicated 3 paragraphs to the discussion would lend credence to there being an issue here.
the good intentions of those few people are incredibly misplaced in this none-issue.
this is the consensus from my point of view:
I'm out.
I'm back :poly121:
theres some real irony in what you have said when you have contributed to this thread more than any other on polycount....
The further three paragraphs are describing how I fail to see the issue. The only problem I see is that people are making a problem of something that isn't really a problem. If people have an issue with a picture of themselves being online, and if they have an issue with strangers potentially oggling at them for being attractive, then they should ask for the image to be removed. There's no need to feel shame or the need to apologize for being inclined to focus on people or things that are attractive. It comes commonly with being human.
I think it would be beneficial if the blog clarified this part a bit. It's kinda unclear whether or not these pictures have been submitted by these (handsome) folks themselves or not. Now of course there's always going to be someone saying that it's their fault if they originally posted the picture on their Facebook in the first place. Sure enough - but that doesn't make the act of re-posting said picture without consent any better ...
You certainly seem to.
What problem ?
When you go between lions, you behave like them or you get eaten.
It is simple law of nature.
I say it this way. If you, yourself put image on internet. Regardless of what you do, that image is now public property.
If you don't want your images over internet, you don't uploaded images of yourself, in the first place.
Try to remove them, and be sure that internet will go after you and do everything for that image to not be removed.
If I didn't know any better I would think that all of you complaining about images in public space, just got internet for 1 day and don't know what to do.
I was thinking about a similar point the other day, what reaction would be given if there was role reversal in the famous 'Diet Coke ad' - A gorgeous women cracks open a can and ends up covering herself in it, removes her top to reveal a super toned body and huge rack and continues drinking in slo-mo while a bunch of guys gawk and whistle at her, bet that would go down well
Regarding the site it doesn't really bother me that much since its just for a laugh, no harm, if its all consensual to have their pics on there then kudos to the guys. Damn hotties...ohh bay-beh! :O
Nah. That images says everything. It's hard to comment something, when you just can't see the issue.
I honestly also don't see any issue, and it beyond my imagination, how people can make issue of it...
I think the ambiguity is intentional. The site is pretty similar to Tube Crush and i'm sure there's other. The whole act of voyeurism is kinda diminished if its an act. Of course in this case the moderator seems to act pretty responsibly, asking permission and informing the 'candid' men.
Gotta say though, Jesse is pretty much right. If this was women, it'd be used as another damning condemnation of the sexist game industry and the institutionalised silencing/oppression of women. Permission or not would be irrelevant.
At the end of the day, it seems relatively well natured and whoever moderates is acting pretty responsible, i don't see a problem.
My thoughts exactly. Using meme images to communicate is for teenagers stuck in their parents basement.
lol hahaha.. Good ghaad this escalated way too quickly for the record. lol
To me, it's almost akin to saying that racism isn't an issue anymore.
I honestly can't understand how anyone can treat text/image in internet as offensive.
Life would be much easier, if people just stop caring about this crap and just punch someone they don't like in the face.
edit:
To put it into perspective.
When I say something about women, black/yellow/red/blue/etc. people. gays, trans etc. They feel discriminated/offended/etc.
At this point I'm intolerant racist punished for telling my opinion.
But when they say something something I disagree, I should agree with them. Try to disagree, you are again marked as evil man.
In fact I couldn't care less who are, what color your skin have, or what your opinions are. As long as, you don't play intolerant racist card and you do your thing it doesn't matter.
As white male man I can feel now discriminated by all those minorities.
Look at the recent drama about CEO of Mozilla. He have been essentially punished for his believes. In organization that is supposedly all about freedom of expression.
Looks like the freedom ends, when you tell something that is not agreed by the current mainstream.
It is actually both. Racism is not an issue on the books but it is still there, untold. You cant prove it so it remains untold. Then there are those who play their discrimination and/or racism card to push their own agenda forward. But sometimes it is sort of necessary because a certain being needs to succeed in certain place where majority is not his own race. (Thats another topic.)
Coming back to the main discussion.
The way I see it; Everyone is entitled to their opinion and one shouldnt really take it to the heart especially on the internet where even a kid would know, that the flame wars are easier to start then to extinguish.
It doesnt make you a bad person to disagree with something or someone upon their opinion unless you are a CEO or known to the population, because then all eyes are on you and you will be judged on many levels.
EDIT: before someone claims that I did not read the previous posts and all, I assure you that I have. I wanted to correct Mr.inside regarding the racism part. I'll back off now and read on your discussion.
kthxbie