So it's this guy on the Ursa set? If not then correct me, there's no reason to continue talking around it.
There's video posted on his youtube channel asking people to vote. (I assume, I don't understand Russian)
youtube.com/watch?v=vagXzi45Mcg
Advertising is kind of just part of business, it doesn't seem like particularly shady bot stuff. It does seem rather unnecessary but it's up to each person to choose whether or not they want to pay for views, I don't think Valve needs to step in. That's based on what I've know from the above links though. Maybe you guys know more.
So it's this guy on the Ursa set? If not then correct me, there's no reason to continue talking around it.
There's video posted on his youtube channel asking people to vote. (I assume, I don't understand Russian)
youtube.com/watch?v=vagXzi45Mcg
Advertising is kind of just part of business, it doesn't seem like particularly shady bot stuff. It does seem rather unnecessary but it's up to each person to choose whether or not they want to pay for views, I don't think Valve needs to step in. That's based on what I've know from the above links though. Maybe you guys know more.
Advertising services are relatively fine, shady bot vote services are not.
So it's this guy on the Ursa set? If not then correct me, there's no reason to continue talking around it.
Nah, that's not the guy they're talking about.
Based on what I've seen the evidence doesn't all add up so far. More than likely the votes haven't started yet, or have been happening on a much smaller scale than 1000 votes.
I really hope valve attempts to contain multiple styles in a proper manner - the new nyx set has 3 different colors?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should, you move that Hue dialer - tweaking a hue and creating a clusterfuck of options when heros have been assigned color distributions is a disaster no? Perhaps nyx is a exception as he's a unique looking bug.
What a style should be in my mind is a tweak to say the armor - if the default clips with your armor, you can create a custom version that works with the default, and the version that goes with your armor.
A perfect example would also be Vlads LC Helmet, a optional tweak without changing the look of the set at all, only making a cooler portrait!
Weird update... chinese looking Lina added despite the fact that its almost Spring Event, Dazzel that I believe has default shoulders, or don't have any shoulder part at all...
Weird update... chinese looking Lina added despite the fact that its almost Spring Event, Dazzel that I believe has default shoulders, or don't have any shoulder part at all...
The shoulder item goes into Dazzle's Misc slot. That Yuwippi set doesn't have an item for the Misc slot. So I guess the shoulders are just there because of that.
Even though I am a long way from producing work anywhere near game quality I have spent a fair bit of today considering this situation, I think I am against this non-contributor payment system. To begin with I couldn't rationalise why I didn't like it, it just bothered me.
Eventually I think I realised what it was. These I feel that non-contributor advertisers are lowering the value of everything submitted to the workshop.
Let's say this advertising system became the norm, surely that means to get noticed in the workshop you HAVE to pay an advertiser. In this scenario there is no benefit for anyone other than the advertisers, they get money (for doing very little) and no one is more recognized than anyone else using this style of advertising.
If stuff like this doesn't become the norm (but it is effective) it means that the few who do use it will likely fill the top 3 slots (or more) at all times, meaning that people making really nice stuff don't get seen by the more casual workshop viewers at all.
I mean no disrespect to creators that use these services and I think every contributor is free to do whatever they want (unless Valve says otherwise) but a system where users show preference based on a judgment of quality is probably a better one right?
Of course this is based on the assumption that votes actually matter. If Valve are making the quality judgments themselves it is a completely different story.
Even though I am a long way from producing work anywhere near game quality I have spent a fair bit of today considering this situation, I think I am against this non-contributor payment system. To begin with I couldn't rationalise why I didn't like it, it just bothered me.
Eventually I think I realised what it was. These I feel that non-contributor advertisers are lowering the value of everything submitted to the workshop.
Let's say this advertising system became the norm, surely that means to get noticed in the workshop you HAVE to pay an advertiser. In this scenario there is no benefit for anyone other than the advertisers, they get money (for doing very little) and no one is more recognized than anyone else using this style of advertising.
If stuff like this doesn't become the norm (but it is effective) it means that the few who do use it will likely fill the top 3 slots (or more) at all times, meaning that people making really nice stuff don't get seen by the more casual workshop viewers at all.
I mean no disrespect to creators that use these services and I think every contributor is free to do whatever they want (unless Valve says otherwise) but a system where users show preference based on a judgment of quality is probably a better one right?
Of course this is based on the assumption that votes actually matter. If Valve are making the quality judgments themselves it is a completely different story.
I guess there's no control on the publicity, I mean if your have a 10k followers in your facebook page and put your itens submittion there for everyone see it's publicity.
Dota Cinema's Sven set was something close to that, they have craploads of subscribers, and they kept doing the adversting about the set. I can't see why not.
Also publicity cannot be stopped. You can facebook, reddit, twitter, youtube... infinite ways to show your work.
I guess there's no control on the publicity, I mean if your have a 10k followers in your facebook page and put your itens submittion there for everyone see it's publicity.
Dota Cinema's Sven set was something close to that, they have craploads of subscribers, and they kept doing the adversting about the set. I can't see why not.
Also publicity cannot be stopped. You can facebook, reddit, twitter, youtube... infinite ways to show your work.
I don't think that publicity itself is the issue here, but instead people trading publicity for a cut on the item. There are lots and lots of sets with "famous" people as contributors, when most of the times they did nothing but lend their name in order for the set to get better publicity.
People need to start ignoring votes and everything. Time and time again we've seen that Valve is the one giving the final word, where votes are just a simple way of gauging the community interest on the item. Valve are still the guys who need to like the item, and we know that they're also willing to accept stuff from a year ago, not because they're associated with player X, organization Y or tournament Z, but because they're actually good.
On the subject of the everchanging workshop, how bout those crazy Red-Moon guys + friends. Killer 26 piece "super" collection. I hope this does crazy well to prove a point about how inaccurately the current state of the website handles sets.
On the 30 page view, if these all get to the top, one collection will just dominate the entire page. Awe-inspiring + broken. This could easily be taken up by 3-5 slots depending on organization of collection or set. I hope someone takes notice of this and puts some change in there, but until then, congrats you guys. It's awesome.
regarding the advertising thing:
dotacinema and the like are a very important part of the dota 2 community. Valve has expressed that they want to basically monetize the ENTIRETY of the communities that form around their games - and I don't see anything wrong with somebody like Sunsfan using his position and his viewership to promote item submissions for a cut. (Especially when the organization in question does the initial contracting of the artists and is involved in the decision making process for the appearance of the set.)
being contacted after the fact by an organization that is just looking to trade money for votes is pure advertising. i don't agree with it - i wouldn't do it. I think it's encouraging the broken system to continue being broken - but there's nothing ultimately wrong with it. (advertising represents everything in media that annoys me, but it's a necessary evil i suppose)
Vote bots are a different monster all together. I would consider that cheating. They're not cashing in on the work they've put in to generate a following. They're not promoting workshop visibility to the general dota audience. They're just exploiting a system that is less than perfect.
i will say this unapologetically:
ANY ARTIST WHO AGREES TO USE A VOTE-BOT SERVICE IS EXPLOITING THE WORKSHOP AND CHEATING THE REST OF US OUT OF VISIBILITY. THEY ARE IN THE WRONG AND I WOULD BE MOST EGREGIOUSLY DISPLEASED TO KNOW OF IT.
i don't know if this has happened or if it has just been members of the community with a following. but pray that it doesn't. participating in that is ACTIVELY perpetuating everything that is broken in the workshop.
i submitted a single item with no fanfare last week. I posted it here - linked it to a handful of friends (maybe 4) and dropped a link on reddit. In 3 days i've gotten 3.5k views and nearly 500 votes. with 5 stars It's not in the top 3. it's not even on the front page. but i'm sure Valve has seen it and already made a decision and that's good enough for me. I will NEVER give part of my cut to somebody just for votes. Contract me for work if you want, but don't just be a leech.
I highly doubt that there are voting bots actually.
However other thing is more important. There is a huge difference between Dota Cinema that actually makes the set with you, provide feedback, and shape it together with an artist. That is win-win situation for both.
On the other hand those guys don't give a f*** about you and your work. In your eyes your just a % exchanged for their doubtable promotion skills...
I will not judge anyone, I am in no position do do it. However I am most happy that Andrew with friends put up this fantastic collection. That will be the best example of how nothing more than hard work and dedication can bring you glory!!
Mentioned before about separating 3rd parties with singles. Everything would be much easier. The reason why people don't like the advertisers taking a share to advertise is because either they didn't contribute in any part of the item and/or that they they will take space in the first couple pages and push other submissions to the back.
Advertisers does not increase any money that Valve/Author gets from an item, unless it's fan based.
Maybe, that at a certain number of votes, the item/set gets shelved from the main section to a different section, then artists won't be shoved into the back pages. The different section would be either at the time the item got X amount of votes/views or by category or something. Then, other submissions can be pushed to the front.
I highly doubt that there are voting bots actually.
However other thing is more important. There is a huge difference between Dota Cinema that actually makes the set with you, provide feedback, and shape it together with an artist. That is win-win situation for both.
On the other hand those guys don't give a f*** about you and your work. In your eyes your just a % exchanged for their doubtable promotion skills...
I will not judge anyone, I am in no position do do it. However I am most happy that Andrew with friends put up this fantastic collection. That will be the best example of how nothing more than hard work and dedication can bring you glory!!
Exactly. The DC guys worked hard for their fanbase and they also always checked with the community and worked along the artists with their stuff. These vote scammers on the other hand (and some "personality" sets too I'd safely bet) just lend their word/name to the artists with no contribution whatsoever expecting easy money.
Taking into account that your item has a greentooth seal of awesome approval, and it is good quality, If votes dont influence your item getting in the store (besides your ranking in popularity), and Valve has the final say of whether something goes in, and they see all the items.. Why would you want to lose even 5% profit to someone whose role is litterally meaningless? Madness.
Taking into account that your item has a greentooth seal of awesome approval, and it is good quality, If votes dont influence your item getting in the store (besides your ranking in popularity), and Valve has the final say of whether something goes in, and they see all the items.. Why would you want to lose even 5% profit to someone whose role is litterally meaningless? Madness.
Exactly. If all the legitimate workshop contributors take this positjon then the problem should resolve itself.
regarding the advertising thing:
dotacinema and the like are a very important part of the dota 2 community. Valve has expressed that they want to basically monetize the ENTIRETY of the communities that form around their games - and I don't see anything wrong with somebody like Sunsfan using his position and his viewership to promote item submissions for a cut. (Especially when the organization in question does the initial contracting of the artists and is involved in the decision making process for the appearance of the set.)
In this case perhaps they should then be included in the Service providers list? This way the artists themselves can still keep the full cut of their work, plus putting the slider up for places like DC so they still get an appropriate cut. Donno, just a thought.
In this case perhaps they should then be included in the Service providers list? This way the artists themselves can still keep the full cut of their work, plus putting the slider up for places like DC so they still get an appropriate cut. Donno, just a thought.
I dont think they belong on that list. Those people/organizations are art relates - they help you get the work done and done better. DC (as our example) doesnt operate to that end. Their involvement is limited to branding and community involvement. Their work expands and enhances the game throughout and isnt limited to the workshop.
For their part im glad theyre directing further attention to the workshop and its community. Its good for all of us.
Other activities are less wholesome and more leech-like. DC made no promises that things would be accepted or even get votes AFAIK. to do otherwise is playing outside of the rules.
God, a part of me just wants complete anonymity on the workshop, no names - no votes - just valve adding what they see as quality. But that would also completely destroy the purpose of the workshop as a community feature.
btw that bot thing isnt anything new at all. russian guys used it in the trading community already since long time - they deal there was: buying x *view counting* couriers with 0 views for low price. then the bot trades from one acc to the next upping the views and at the end of cycle they got all the couriers with full particle effect and mass views selling them for a lot higher price.
ive also seen that on architecture and design competitions some time ago.
and also same thing for facebook pages (a friend of myself is a rapper, some time ago he was added by a guy who asked him if he would like 5000likes on his facebook page for 100 euro).
"Workshop is definitely going in bad direction. People offering 1000 guaranteed votes in exchange of % share. Valve should definitely change the voting mechanics... Or soon there will not be much more % left for artists itself..."
It is true that for a % of the item sales someone gives you "free" votes? If no one made it already, I'm redirecting this directly to Valve right now.
I was pretty concerned about this. It was just coincidence that I was on the First Pick stream with Thiaggo and Steph when Spudnik just gave me the link to the pic of the chat.
I explained why is important to stop this and gave some ideas about how Valve can do it. Also I sent this over to some Valve fellas, hopefully we find a way to fix this.
I'm not looking forward to any medal or similar, I just want to fix this. Someone on the chat asked if it's ok to reddit this and I said "of course!". And that's how they said I revealed it, when it would be more accurate to say that I just spotlighted it. Thanks a lot for sharing the info with us.
And next time just try to find out what happened right before looking for credit man, nobody is trying to steal you nothing. We are all on the same boat!
No worries mate! I'm not complaining that you made it public, I'm actually happy that you did! Specially being someone with that much influence on the community. I just was caught out of the loop since I had no idea about the stream and from reading the thread title on Reddit I thought that you were claiming to be the one who found it, but it was just a bad title by the OP. I don't care about getting credits or anything and I'm not looking for any recognition. The only thing that matters is the submitters being aware of this stuff and the guy getting punished.
Sorry if I sounded like a prick, it wasn't my intention. As I said, I missed the stream and misread the title of that thread on Reddit, I really didn't mean to sound like I wanted credits or whatever, I just assumed stuff that I shouldn't had assumed, and I apologize for that.
You guys know this guy is with Team Empire right? And there isn't any conclusive proof that he uses bots. He could simply be passing it through is networks, which has thousands of subscribers. Like I said on my reddit post, does this seem shady, a little, has he confirmed using bot? No. Personally, I feel this is nothing more then a big misundestanding.
And if people arent being forced to vote, and these votes have been willing given by individuals, then what did they do wrong?
I don't know if it's really any worse than say the Dota Cinema sets. The deal is that basically they will promote the set to their large viewer base right?
Hey guys, i'm Nikey and i've made set for pugna. This "Empire.Heaven" got his % on pugna's set only cuz he introduced us with this pro guy. This set was accepted not because it has so much votes, because of it was for pro player and done good. Like nyx for Casperrr, it's now in game only cuz people like it and it's done good (As u can see, nyx hasn't "empire" in authors). Sets for pro players usually going in game. What about Empire guy, does he using bots? -No, he doesn't. He just a popular guy who has "mod" on the big part of russian streams, forums, and communities. He just posting it everywhere and getting votes. About his offers. He offering his help only to guys, who has a good items. And if you won't work with him, you can just remove him. PS: he doesn't using bots.
And yes, he doing nothing and he wants to get money. But he is popular guy and for example, you can compare him with pro organisations, which take % only cuz u doing this set for them and they promote it. He promote it too. He promotes only good items like organisations.
Personally I don't think the problem comes from the promotional aspect - but more from the claim of a "guaranteed" number of votes, and the whole "cannot tell you how I do this" attitude.
Not that I personally care anyways - I think that the beauty of the Workshop is how artists can earn some well-deserved value out of their hard work without any middle men (besides Valve of course). I am confident that artwork quality and originality will always have the edge over secret business practices or any kind of pro sponsorship...
I said this on the Reddit and will say it here one more time.
Thing is that in my opinion the Heaven approached Robo and Nikey there was no deal. Thing is that he saw how fast popularity of those items grew and thought that maybe he can make it also with other artists. Now Robo and Nikey are put in bad light basically for working with him in the past.
Thing is that there is not much difference between Heaven and other pro organizations. Maybe only this that Heaven wanted smaller % and named things what they were actually. Seriously I saw many pro player sets before that had nothing to do with pro player, and no one was mad about this. In my opinion everyone is to blame, however Heaven got raged against because he was honest.
To be honest, Robo and Nikey items never needed promotion from an outside source. They are known and have had items in the game before, especially Robo.
Agreed with Vayne. Both Robo and Nikey don't need any kind of promotion. You guys make great items and should be resorting to this guys for votes, because as we know it, they don't matter anything, since Valve is the one with the last word whether the items get in or not.
Agreed with Vayne. Both Robo and Nikey don't need any kind of promotion. You guys make great items and should be resorting to this guys for votes, because as we know it, they don't matter anything, since Valve is the one with the last word whether the items get in or not.
Whoses to say they can't? If they choose to sacrifice a portion of their revenue share to hit a broader auidence, then why restrict it? It's their choice. Better yet, if that organization creates their own marketing videos for the cosmetic, in reguards to Dota2VO and even DotaCinema, then how are they doing anything wrong? They are still contributing a peice to that workshop entry, the only difference is they have access to a userbase of thousands of users.
It's a matter of handling it right. And in this situtation, I feel there was a huge misunderstanding more then anything else. Nikey said the reason Empire was even on the Pugna set was because Heaven set up the workshop artist with the player, in return Nikey sectioned off a small percent to him as a way to compensate him for his networking help. How did either party do anything wrong here?
I can see how it could be a misunderstanding and all, but where does he gets the votes then if not from scammed accounts/bots? He doesn't have a following on Twitter, and the only other media where he can apparently promote the items is through streams, but have anyone ever seen he promoting it? Also, if he is just spamming streams with "vote pls" links, why would you give someone a cut to do this crap?
The thing is, he could be promoting the items, surely, but where is that?
@belkun I think thats the reason why he has chosen Robo, Nikey and later spoke to others. He just knew those items will get 1000 votes with him doing nothing. If he would use bots, than every his item would have 1000 votes minimum and that is not the case.
Hijacking top comment to clarify some things.
Been working for EmpireTV for almost a year and I've left like in November.
This guy (Empire.HEAVEN or EmpireTV.Heaven) was helping us in the early 2013 and then he got kicked from the staff due his attitude. Since that day he has been scamming around with Empire casters and event organizers by pretending that he is the one who in charge of things.
Tl;dr: he's a scammer who is using the tag for his purpose.
The guy seems pretty legit. There are some posts about EmpireTV from a year ago on his account.
Think we can safely assume that the guy is indeed a scammer and he is using Empire's name in order to do his thing. Even if we can't prove whether he uses bots or whatever, it could be a case of what Konras said, which is the guy doing nothing and suddenly when and if the items have 1000 votes he just claim that he got those.
Replies
That guy selling votes is now an approved content provider.
The agreement says that they pay the contributors %. If a steam user is there then the parties have agreed.
They only seem mildy concerned about farmer's when the community makes a huge fuss about it. Should we talk to Volvo?
If so, I hope they see recent topic and are as equally as flabbergasted.
There's video posted on his youtube channel asking people to vote. (I assume, I don't understand Russian)
youtube.com/watch?v=vagXzi45Mcg
Advertising is kind of just part of business, it doesn't seem like particularly shady bot stuff. It does seem rather unnecessary but it's up to each person to choose whether or not they want to pay for views, I don't think Valve needs to step in. That's based on what I've know from the above links though. Maybe you guys know more.
Advertising services are relatively fine, shady bot vote services are not.
Nah, that's not the guy they're talking about.
Based on what I've seen the evidence doesn't all add up so far. More than likely the votes haven't started yet, or have been happening on a much smaller scale than 1000 votes.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should, you move that Hue dialer - tweaking a hue and creating a clusterfuck of options when heros have been assigned color distributions is a disaster no? Perhaps nyx is a exception as he's a unique looking bug.
What a style should be in my mind is a tweak to say the armor - if the default clips with your armor, you can create a custom version that works with the default, and the version that goes with your armor.
A perfect example would also be Vlads LC Helmet, a optional tweak without changing the look of the set at all, only making a cooler portrait!
Weird update... chinese looking Lina added despite the fact that its almost Spring Event, Dazzel that I believe has default shoulders, or don't have any shoulder part at all...
(Sorry but I had to let it out somewhere. Carry on and ignore this...)
That was what I was exactly what I was thinking, but maybe its because they are planning to add a certain lina set in the spring2014.
The shoulder item goes into Dazzle's Misc slot. That Yuwippi set doesn't have an item for the Misc slot. So I guess the shoulders are just there because of that.
Eventually I think I realised what it was. These I feel that non-contributor advertisers are lowering the value of everything submitted to the workshop.
Let's say this advertising system became the norm, surely that means to get noticed in the workshop you HAVE to pay an advertiser. In this scenario there is no benefit for anyone other than the advertisers, they get money (for doing very little) and no one is more recognized than anyone else using this style of advertising.
If stuff like this doesn't become the norm (but it is effective) it means that the few who do use it will likely fill the top 3 slots (or more) at all times, meaning that people making really nice stuff don't get seen by the more casual workshop viewers at all.
I mean no disrespect to creators that use these services and I think every contributor is free to do whatever they want (unless Valve says otherwise) but a system where users show preference based on a judgment of quality is probably a better one right?
Of course this is based on the assumption that votes actually matter. If Valve are making the quality judgments themselves it is a completely different story.
I guess there's no control on the publicity, I mean if your have a 10k followers in your facebook page and put your itens submittion there for everyone see it's publicity.
Dota Cinema's Sven set was something close to that, they have craploads of subscribers, and they kept doing the adversting about the set. I can't see why not.
Also publicity cannot be stopped. You can facebook, reddit, twitter, youtube... infinite ways to show your work.
They have separate teams working on these :poly136:
I don't think that publicity itself is the issue here, but instead people trading publicity for a cut on the item. There are lots and lots of sets with "famous" people as contributors, when most of the times they did nothing but lend their name in order for the set to get better publicity.
People need to start ignoring votes and everything. Time and time again we've seen that Valve is the one giving the final word, where votes are just a simple way of gauging the community interest on the item. Valve are still the guys who need to like the item, and we know that they're also willing to accept stuff from a year ago, not because they're associated with player X, organization Y or tournament Z, but because they're actually good.
On the 30 page view, if these all get to the top, one collection will just dominate the entire page. Awe-inspiring + broken. This could easily be taken up by 3-5 slots depending on organization of collection or set. I hope someone takes notice of this and puts some change in there, but until then, congrats you guys. It's awesome.
dotacinema and the like are a very important part of the dota 2 community. Valve has expressed that they want to basically monetize the ENTIRETY of the communities that form around their games - and I don't see anything wrong with somebody like Sunsfan using his position and his viewership to promote item submissions for a cut. (Especially when the organization in question does the initial contracting of the artists and is involved in the decision making process for the appearance of the set.)
being contacted after the fact by an organization that is just looking to trade money for votes is pure advertising. i don't agree with it - i wouldn't do it. I think it's encouraging the broken system to continue being broken - but there's nothing ultimately wrong with it. (advertising represents everything in media that annoys me, but it's a necessary evil i suppose)
Vote bots are a different monster all together. I would consider that cheating. They're not cashing in on the work they've put in to generate a following. They're not promoting workshop visibility to the general dota audience. They're just exploiting a system that is less than perfect.
i will say this unapologetically:
ANY ARTIST WHO AGREES TO USE A VOTE-BOT SERVICE IS EXPLOITING THE WORKSHOP AND CHEATING THE REST OF US OUT OF VISIBILITY. THEY ARE IN THE WRONG AND I WOULD BE MOST EGREGIOUSLY DISPLEASED TO KNOW OF IT.
i don't know if this has happened or if it has just been members of the community with a following. but pray that it doesn't. participating in that is ACTIVELY perpetuating everything that is broken in the workshop.
i submitted a single item with no fanfare last week. I posted it here - linked it to a handful of friends (maybe 4) and dropped a link on reddit. In 3 days i've gotten 3.5k views and nearly 500 votes. with 5 stars It's not in the top 3. it's not even on the front page. but i'm sure Valve has seen it and already made a decision and that's good enough for me. I will NEVER give part of my cut to somebody just for votes. Contract me for work if you want, but don't just be a leech.
However other thing is more important. There is a huge difference between Dota Cinema that actually makes the set with you, provide feedback, and shape it together with an artist. That is win-win situation for both.
On the other hand those guys don't give a f*** about you and your work. In your eyes your just a % exchanged for their doubtable promotion skills...
I will not judge anyone, I am in no position do do it. However I am most happy that Andrew with friends put up this fantastic collection. That will be the best example of how nothing more than hard work and dedication can bring you glory!!
Advertisers does not increase any money that Valve/Author gets from an item, unless it's fan based.
Maybe, that at a certain number of votes, the item/set gets shelved from the main section to a different section, then artists won't be shoved into the back pages. The different section would be either at the time the item got X amount of votes/views or by category or something. Then, other submissions can be pushed to the front.
Exactly. The DC guys worked hard for their fanbase and they also always checked with the community and worked along the artists with their stuff. These vote scammers on the other hand (and some "personality" sets too I'd safely bet) just lend their word/name to the artists with no contribution whatsoever expecting easy money.
Exactly. If all the legitimate workshop contributors take this positjon then the problem should resolve itself.
In this case perhaps they should then be included in the Service providers list? This way the artists themselves can still keep the full cut of their work, plus putting the slider up for places like DC so they still get an appropriate cut. Donno, just a thought.
Edit:
Well, if you guys need more proof that he is indeed selling votes:
I told him that I'm going to "get back to him" on the matter, so if any of you have any questions or something...
Hope we can post this on someplace like Reddit and warn people about shitty scammers.
I dont think they belong on that list. Those people/organizations are art relates - they help you get the work done and done better. DC (as our example) doesnt operate to that end. Their involvement is limited to branding and community involvement. Their work expands and enhances the game throughout and isnt limited to the workshop.
For their part im glad theyre directing further attention to the workshop and its community. Its good for all of us.
Other activities are less wholesome and more leech-like. DC made no promises that things would be accepted or even get votes AFAIK. to do otherwise is playing outside of the rules.
bot..
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1vk0np/first_pick_7_danidem_reveals_upvote_botters/
so upvotem' if ya got em so it can get some exposure. Will be interesting to see if anything is done and how people react.
ive also seen that on architecture and design competitions some time ago.
and also same thing for facebook pages (a friend of myself is a rapper, some time ago he was added by a guy who asked him if he would like 5000likes on his facebook page for 100 euro).
russian bot mafia conquers the world
And what a shame, not only for the shady mafia guy but to the workshopers that actually accept this kind of service.
Well GG, we are getting wrecked by ghosts votes.
I was pretty concerned about this. It was just coincidence that I was on the First Pick stream with Thiaggo and Steph when Spudnik just gave me the link to the pic of the chat.
I explained why is important to stop this and gave some ideas about how Valve can do it. Also I sent this over to some Valve fellas, hopefully we find a way to fix this.
I'm not looking forward to any medal or similar, I just want to fix this. Someone on the chat asked if it's ok to reddit this and I said "of course!". And that's how they said I revealed it, when it would be more accurate to say that I just spotlighted it. Thanks a lot for sharing the info with us.
And next time just try to find out what happened right before looking for credit man, nobody is trying to steal you nothing. We are all on the same boat!
Cheers.
Sorry if I sounded like a prick, it wasn't my intention. As I said, I missed the stream and misread the title of that thread on Reddit, I really didn't mean to sound like I wanted credits or whatever, I just assumed stuff that I shouldn't had assumed, and I apologize for that.
And if people arent being forced to vote, and these votes have been willing given by individuals, then what did they do wrong?
Team Empire Website
Team Empire TV
Team Empire TV Youtube
And yes, he doing nothing and he wants to get money. But he is popular guy and for example, you can compare him with pro organisations, which take % only cuz u doing this set for them and they promote it. He promote it too. He promotes only good items like organisations.
Not that I personally care anyways - I think that the beauty of the Workshop is how artists can earn some well-deserved value out of their hard work without any middle men (besides Valve of course). I am confident that artwork quality and originality will always have the edge over secret business practices or any kind of pro sponsorship...
I'll ask him
Thing is that in my opinion the Heaven approached Robo and Nikey there was no deal. Thing is that he saw how fast popularity of those items grew and thought that maybe he can make it also with other artists. Now Robo and Nikey are put in bad light basically for working with him in the past.
Thing is that there is not much difference between Heaven and other pro organizations. Maybe only this that Heaven wanted smaller % and named things what they were actually. Seriously I saw many pro player sets before that had nothing to do with pro player, and no one was mad about this. In my opinion everyone is to blame, however Heaven got raged against because he was honest.
Whoses to say they can't? If they choose to sacrifice a portion of their revenue share to hit a broader auidence, then why restrict it? It's their choice. Better yet, if that organization creates their own marketing videos for the cosmetic, in reguards to Dota2VO and even DotaCinema, then how are they doing anything wrong? They are still contributing a peice to that workshop entry, the only difference is they have access to a userbase of thousands of users.
It's a matter of handling it right. And in this situtation, I feel there was a huge misunderstanding more then anything else. Nikey said the reason Empire was even on the Pugna set was because Heaven set up the workshop artist with the player, in return Nikey sectioned off a small percent to him as a way to compensate him for his networking help. How did either party do anything wrong here?
The thing is, he could be promoting the items, surely, but where is that?
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1vk0np/first_pick_7_danidem_reveals_upvote_botters/cetbh01
The guy seems pretty legit. There are some posts about EmpireTV from a year ago on his account.
Think we can safely assume that the guy is indeed a scammer and he is using Empire's name in order to do his thing. Even if we can't prove whether he uses bots or whatever, it could be a case of what Konras said, which is the guy doing nothing and suddenly when and if the items have 1000 votes he just claim that he got those.