The dithered order independent blending is probably not what you're looking for here. Its great for simple alpha blends like hair, but for more complex surfaces like glass etc you will probably want something different.
But on your website you show off the feature on a small squared glass bottle...
So, if it's not good for glass, what do you suggest?
Here another example on a car model I found. As you can see the glass doesn't look right, it's still quite noisy and you don't get the reflections you would expect. Overall looks very good though, it would be cool to have a carpaint shader.
Was doing a quick test with displacement, first time testing so I could be wrong, but I have a feeling this isn't supposed to happen.
The spec is just following the original mesh, and not the tesselated/displaced one.
Hmm, the white paint is acceptable on that Cobra, but the blue isn't quite there yet. Reflections seem super-busy, you'd expect less noise from HDR reflections?
But on your website you show off the feature on a small squared glass bottle...
So, if it's not good for glass, what do you suggest?
Here another example on a car model I found. As you can see the glass doesn't look right, it's still quite noisy and you don't get the reflections you would expect. Overall looks very good though, it would be cool to have a carpaint shader.
The refraction shader is likely what you'll want to use for glass, only problem: it hasn't been written yet. :poly142: This is on our todo list, sorry you'll just have to bear with us for the time being.
There may be some improvements we can make to the dithered transparency as well. One thing you can do in the mean time is render out an extra large (like 2x) resolution screenshot and then size it down in photoshop, this will help reduce the noise a bit.
Unfortunately the secondary specular model functionality got broken with some of the re-organization that was done for build 2, generally I think that is what you would want to use for a car shader, though if you have any specific requests related to a car shader please let us know.
Was doing a quick test with displacement, first time testing so I could be wrong, but I have a feeling this isn't supposed to happen.
The spec is just following the original mesh, and not the tesselated/displaced one.
Hey, meshes are not re-normalized when displacement is used, so you'll still need to use a normal map to get correct lighting. Displacement/tessellation only affects the silhouette, not the normals/shading of the mesh.
Was doing a quick test with displacement, first time testing so I could be wrong, but I have a feeling this isn't supposed to happen.
The spec is just following the original mesh, and not the tesselated/displaced one.
I herd u guys like hair shaders. Here's some anisotropic IBL progress.
The shader uses 32 cube samples (just like blinn-phong) and a custom aniso texture filtering gradient. Looks pretty good; even in this church which, with all its tiny bright lights, is the worst-case scenario.
What bakers will TB2 be synced with? It would be great if it could be synced with Handplane and/or xNormal (as TB1 does not appear to be perfectly synced with Handplane at least). The optimal solution might be to make it possible to select from a few different tangent bases, so most people would find something to be happy with.
Would the ones that are part of the beta test, be able to use images from tb2 in our portfolio or would we need to wait for the full version?
Cause I am wondering if I should make the textures for my current project to work with tb1 or tb2.
Doing some test bakes and then this happens when I plug the normals into toolbag. Don't know why.
TGA works fine so I'll stick with it for the time being.
2k map
In case anyone is interested:
Got asked to share it in case people want to play around with materials in tb2 a bit and don't have the time to make something from scratch.
Would the ones that are part of the beta test, be able to use images from tb2 in our portfolio or would we need to wait for the full version?
Cause I am wondering if I should make the textures for my current project to work with tb1 or tb2.
We don't have any restrictions on where or how you display images rendered in TB2.
EQ: That's great
Any idea how long it will take before the refraction/glass shader is back in?
Sorry, I can't give any time estimates on features at this point. I can say it is on the official todo list, which means it is a higher priority feature and it will likely show up sooner rather than later.
yes i also agree with the fact that every object has fresnel, that why i think it should in some way modulate the specular in mamroset to get realistic looking material.
here is the way it work in vray, the lower the ior the less reflective, the higher, the more reflective material.
i don't say this is the best way to do or use fresnel but i find it simple to use (ok i like vray so what ...)
I agree Maddam, I would love more control over fresnel. I'm finding it too hard to get that intense reflection that fades away to almost nothing depending on the viewing angle, (and it's really important on skin!)
For instance you can see a very strong reflection like this: (Shame on me for posting non TB2.0 skin shader pics)
Then take two steps to the left and 1 step forward and it will practically disappear.
Right now in TB2 I have to fake the effect with a super strong point light that when you rotate around the character completely blows out the side of the face when looking head on.
...Wow That anisotropic shader looks EPIC!
Oh yeah, I also found some examples of light leakage from the IBL but since I can't post the art content I was testing TB2.0 with I'll have to get some screenshots of this later. (Local reflections only covers about half of the illuminated area. I see this happen pretty often in the nostrils of characters in TB2.0 where it will look illuminated up inside the nose on certain skyboxes.
Dont think I've seen any mention of it in the thread but any chance for area lights?
I've really been hoping for this! Area lights with no radius or attenuation Sliders. But rather all of that purely dictated by a physically based light falloff based on your selected intensity of the light.
Great additions to TB2. Its coming along very nicely!
Sorry if this have already been mentioned, I guess it might have. But I noticed that when creating a custom Sky Light it doesn't save the lights added in the light editor when saving a .tbsky-file.
RadianceF0rge: doesnt do that for me, weird.... maybe hardware or driver related?
would it be possible to get more controls for the camera for more precise shots? i find it sort of hard to achieve certain effects like wide shots and stuff like that but then again it might be me being a noob xD
I have a few pages (!) of notes, feedback and bug reports to cleanup and post but before that I thought I'd share some tests from today. Needless to say that even tho there are some usability bugs to iron out, the core image quality itself is quite incredible ! Loving it ...
Been plugging away with this for the past week or so - such an awesome tool.
The main problems I have so far, once you get past a few user error type things (like, realizing you can delete things, managing groups, etc.) Don't seem to be "that" huge of a deal...Like i haven't seen a crash yet, or any show stopping bugs.
- Need double sided materials / Hair shader will be awesome
- Exporting with transparency, I had the same issues as Tits.
- I wish there was a way to just refresh my model (maybe I'm missing it?) Like in TB1, I found myself deleting my model, reimporting, then reapplying the material. not a huge deal - It's just a feature I wish stuck around
- Would it be possible to save directional lights per sky? I like to switch between a few settings to see what looks best / how the model behaves under different lighting scenarios...and just found myself recreating directional lights
1. per-mesh setting to disable self shadowing
2. per-mesh setting to disable SSR
3. detail normal map rotation
4. second detail normal map (i know its getting too greedy but could be useful for lot of things specially to maintain symmetry)
also +1 to what artquest mentions about fresnel and skin. that strong specularity on sharp angles could actually be useful in lot of things.
checked and getting the same result, also toggling scene visibility will crash TB2 for me.
We can't seem to reproduce this on our end. Could you email us your hardware specs, OS version, and maybe a simple .tbscene file that reliably crashes? Thanks!
But I noticed that when creating a custom Sky Light it doesn't save the lights added in the light editor when saving a .tbsky-file.
Thanks for the feedback. This light support is definitely needed. It may not make it in for the day 1 release, but we will certainly have it within one of the first patches.
I've really been hoping for this! Area lights with no radius or attenuation Sliders. But rather all of that purely dictated by a physically based light falloff based on your selected intensity of the light.
In regards to light types, area lights & IES lights are officially on our to-do list, but they won't be a day 1 feature. They'll be arriving with a point release down the road.
Replies
So, if it's not good for glass, what do you suggest?
Here another example on a car model I found. As you can see the glass doesn't look right, it's still quite noisy and you don't get the reflections you would expect. Overall looks very good though, it would be cool to have a carpaint shader.
Rikk that cobra looks beautiful
yes. this has been addressed, even on this page.
The spec is just following the original mesh, and not the tesselated/displaced one.
Left is just spec/fresnel turned off with ao, right is with spec/fresnel turned up again.
http://imageshack.us/a/img703/2645/sdu8.jpg
The refraction shader is likely what you'll want to use for glass, only problem: it hasn't been written yet. :poly142: This is on our todo list, sorry you'll just have to bear with us for the time being.
There may be some improvements we can make to the dithered transparency as well. One thing you can do in the mean time is render out an extra large (like 2x) resolution screenshot and then size it down in photoshop, this will help reduce the noise a bit.
Unfortunately the secondary specular model functionality got broken with some of the re-organization that was done for build 2, generally I think that is what you would want to use for a car shader, though if you have any specific requests related to a car shader please let us know.
Hey, meshes are not re-normalized when displacement is used, so you'll still need to use a normal map to get correct lighting. Displacement/tessellation only affects the silhouette, not the normals/shading of the mesh.
do you have a normal map there, or only displacement map.
someone can correct me if i am wrong, but just like toolbag1, toolbag2 requires normal map in addition to displacement map to show proper shading.
*edit* posted too late
I herd u guys like hair shaders. Here's some anisotropic IBL progress.
The shader uses 32 cube samples (just like blinn-phong) and a custom aniso texture filtering gradient. Looks pretty good; even in this church which, with all its tiny bright lights, is the worst-case scenario.
edi: the pun was not intended lool
Most engines from what I've seen do not have displacement maps affect lighting, it's not exclusive to the Marmoset.
I almost fell from the chair because I thought that there will be motion blur in Toolbag 2.0.
Cause I am wondering if I should make the textures for my current project to work with tb1 or tb2.
Doing some test bakes and then this happens when I plug the normals into toolbag. Don't know why.
TGA works fine so I'll stick with it for the time being.
2k map
The maps look the same so I don't know whats up.
Got asked to share it in case people want to play around with materials in tb2 a bit and don't have the time to make something from scratch.
Dropbox link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgvzmcibi7oo4xo/WeldingTorch.rar
Now look what you gone n' dun!
We'll be happy to take a look. Would be please send us a copy of your TIFF so we can debug it on our end? Send to: support@marmoset.co
Thanks!
We don't have any restrictions on where or how you display images rendered in TB2.
Any idea how long it will take before the refraction/glass shader is back in?
Sorry, I can't give any time estimates on features at this point. I can say it is on the official todo list, which means it is a higher priority feature and it will likely show up sooner rather than later.
I agree Maddam, I would love more control over fresnel. I'm finding it too hard to get that intense reflection that fades away to almost nothing depending on the viewing angle, (and it's really important on skin!)
For instance you can see a very strong reflection like this: (Shame on me for posting non TB2.0 skin shader pics)
Then take two steps to the left and 1 step forward and it will practically disappear.
Right now in TB2 I have to fake the effect with a super strong point light that when you rotate around the character completely blows out the side of the face when looking head on.
...Wow That anisotropic shader looks EPIC!
Oh yeah, I also found some examples of light leakage from the IBL but since I can't post the art content I was testing TB2.0 with I'll have to get some screenshots of this later. (Local reflections only covers about half of the illuminated area. I see this happen pretty often in the nostrils of characters in TB2.0 where it will look illuminated up inside the nose on certain skyboxes.
I've really been hoping for this! Area lights with no radius or attenuation Sliders. But rather all of that purely dictated by a physically based light falloff based on your selected intensity of the light.
Any word on area lights EQ?
Great additions to TB2. Its coming along very nicely!
Sorry if this have already been mentioned, I guess it might have. But I noticed that when creating a custom Sky Light it doesn't save the lights added in the light editor when saving a .tbsky-file.
@Lonewolf: Its under the render tab there is a checkbox
would it be possible to get more controls for the camera for more precise shots? i find it sort of hard to achieve certain effects like wide shots and stuff like that but then again it might be me being a noob xD
checked and getting the same result, also toggling scene visibility will crash TB2 for me.
Same happens here.
I have a few pages (!) of notes, feedback and bug reports to cleanup and post but before that I thought I'd share some tests from today. Needless to say that even tho there are some usability bugs to iron out, the core image quality itself is quite incredible ! Loving it ...
Keep up the great work guys !
The main problems I have so far, once you get past a few user error type things (like, realizing you can delete things, managing groups, etc.) Don't seem to be "that" huge of a deal...Like i haven't seen a crash yet, or any show stopping bugs.
- Need double sided materials / Hair shader will be awesome
- Exporting with transparency, I had the same issues as Tits.
- I wish there was a way to just refresh my model (maybe I'm missing it?) Like in TB1, I found myself deleting my model, reimporting, then reapplying the material. not a huge deal - It's just a feature I wish stuck around
- Would it be possible to save directional lights per sky? I like to switch between a few settings to see what looks best / how the model behaves under different lighting scenarios...and just found myself recreating directional lights
Gav
1. per-mesh setting to disable self shadowing
2. per-mesh setting to disable SSR
3. detail normal map rotation
4. second detail normal map (i know its getting too greedy but could be useful for lot of things specially to maintain symmetry)
also +1 to what artquest mentions about fresnel and skin. that strong specularity on sharp angles could actually be useful in lot of things.
also, looking forward to that hair shader!
We can't seem to reproduce this on our end. Could you email us your hardware specs, OS version, and maybe a simple .tbscene file that reliably crashes? Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback. This light support is definitely needed. It may not make it in for the day 1 release, but we will certainly have it within one of the first patches.
In regards to light types, area lights & IES lights are officially on our to-do list, but they won't be a day 1 feature. They'll be arriving with a point release down the road.