I'm not experienced with this too much yet, but what project doesn't have a little bit of bad management, over scope, or bad planning? I guess I should clarify that I'm talking about large scale, AAA titles, not mobile games or indie companies that work whenever they want to.
I don't think so... Blizzard works on big titles and they encourage you to work 8 hr days, and overtime is paid overtime. So to do overtime you would prbly have to be approved first. If you can't do your work in 8 hrs then you are doing something wrong. If you don't have enough time and you are working hard, then its over scoped. The whole what project doesn't have a little bit of bad management is a statement that we should encourage people to stay away from. If we want to change the industry, those changes come through us. So we need to be clear of what can be done, and express the limitations of our work. A good workplace will have these, and trust your work. Not exploit you.
Like everyone said... time is too precious to be wasted, and it does fly by. I just think the motivations of a studio would be more productive when the passion to make something memorable and not a money maker is there. But its hard... a company has to make revenue to stay in business. Here at 1p, we do pretty awesome, i don't have to get worried about my job for the time being, and i enjoy the tech and all the stuff i learn everyday. Apart from being in direct contact with the game impact in art, design and gameplay.
it's a nice thread. I like the ideas of what would make a better studio.
Just to let you know, that is the kind of attitude that will get experiened developers to HATE you. Nobody here will recommend you, and you will have NO respect from any of your peers.
Most managers would love him though!! And he would quickly rise through the ranks and probably be a producer / director in no time :poly122:
This will sound naive compared to the industry veterans, but I'd like to work at a AAA studio with lots of hours. I haven't experienced anything more than lots of consecutive all nighters during school, while also maintaining a part-time job. As a single 22 year old, I enjoy the busy schedule, late nights, etc. I really want to work for a studio that's technologically advanced, like Crytek or DICE. I prefer large scale, realistic environments over stylized, mobile ones.
In other words, "I'm too ugly to get a date." :poly142:
Seriously though, life is short and working long hours might be good.... for your boss, as he drives away in his brand new porsche from all your "long hours."
In the end, not many people really give a rat's ass if you modeled that park bench for Grand Theft Auto 12. You'll burn yourself out with that mentality, and like the others have said, you're just making the industry a bad place to work.
Balance is a good thing, protect your free time.
And I believe at the end of the day its not really how much work you put in(in terms of overtime) but how good it is, quality wise, and how motivated you are(I don't think putting in crazy working hours will keep ya motivated for long)And only your skill and motivation will get you to these "High-End" places and higher level positions.
Note: I am a total noob and these are just my assumptions
A studio that's passionate about what they make and don't settle for second place. A environment where I can go crazy with my ideas. Dream studio = Bungie
Most managers would love him though!! And he would quickly rise through the ranks and probably be a producer / director in no time :poly122:
Actually it can be quite bad for morale if your team consists of a few guys like that and the rest being regular people who might have families. I think with paid overtime its better, at least the others won't think "he works more than we do for free and we look like lazy ass*oles and now we have to sacrifice time we'd spend with kids/family/friends".
Then again if you're a boss you should either pay people for OT, or else you don't leave work before they do.
Leleuxart, the folks here are making a fair point, though I think most are being extraordinarily harsh about it. Don't let that discourage you though.
At this point in your career that kind of exuberant enthusiasm is going to serve you very well when it comes to hammering together the amazing portfolio that'll get you the great industry job where you won't have to work ludicrous hours.
Studio that is < 30 mins commute, has a great working environment, no crunch. Core working hours with flexible in/out times. 25 days holiday a year not including bank and public holidays. Gym membership, pension other cool free stuff. Middling team size - 50 - 75 people who are all professional and can have a laugh also.
I'd love to work for sumo, especially as I live in the same city and I really like what they do but I'm sure they must outsource a lot of their art as they seem to have a really strong core team of 3d artists and don't seem to take on juniors at all...
Leleuxart, the folks here are making a fair point, though I think most are being extraordinarily harsh about it. Don't let that discourage you though.
At this point in your career that kind of exuberant enthusiasm is going to serve you very well when it comes to hammering together the amazing portfolio that'll get you the great industry job where you won't have to work ludicrous hours.
Agreed. Man some of you guys being kinda shitty towards someone who simply expressed their excitement to work in the games industry. Unless I missed something, I don't think he once ever implied he wants to work for free and intentionally screw you over. Nobody has a totally realistic idea of what the games industry is like until they actually work in it. And I think that the blame for those situations should fall more on the managers and studios who think like that, rather than new artists who are just excited to work. I agree with what you guys are saying, but it could have been said way more politely. Way to make out industry seem so welcoming.
Agreed. Man some of you guys being kinda shitty towards someone who simply expressed their excitement to work in the games industry. Unless I missed something, I don't think he once ever implied he wants to work for free and intentionally screw you over. Nobody has a totally realistic idea of what the games industry is like until they actually work in it. And I think that the blame for those situations should fall more on the managers and studios who think like that, rather than new artists who are just excited to work. I agree with what you guys are saying, but it could have been said way more politely. Way to make out industry seem so welcoming.
Leleuxart, the folks here are making a fair point, though I think most are being extraordinarily harsh about it. Don't let that discourage you though.
At this point in your career that kind of exuberant enthusiasm is going to serve you very well when it comes to hammering together the amazing portfolio that'll get you the great industry job where you won't have to work ludicrous hours.
Thanks, both of you. I appreciate it. I'm in no way discouraged, because I never really thought me wanting to work hard was a bad choice(when is it ever?). I think the industry(or any industry, or anything for that matter) is something that has to be experienced personally, instead of through posts on the internet telling me how to feel.
I would like to work at a studio with Talent! and not just normal talent but guys like Kenneth Scott, Brian Jones, Kolby Jukes, Sparth, Peter Boehme, and Paul Richards.
I was really lucky to work closely with Strangefate (http://www.strangefate.com/) on Star Trek as my first gig in the industry and was able to learn so much about building both environments and props from him.
And knowing that there is talent out there i can still learn from really keeps me motivated, yeah having a job at a studio is great but i dont do this only for the paycheck.
I want to keep learning and advancing as an artist, I want to take in as much as possible from the people around me.
exactly this, i just want to work in a highly motivated extremely talented team where i feel challenged and learn from my colleagues
I totally agree with ae as well. Big believer of the "talent inspires talent" idea. Only thing i'd add is the option to wear flipflops at work. Just a bit of relaxation that could enhance productivity.
Haha, the reason why I said that is sort of long. With the recommendation of everyone here, I am getting my degree in traditional art. Problem is, I'm hooked on the stuff now. I don't even do much game related stuff. I'm not sure if I'll jump back into the industry, but if I do, I'll definitely be a 2D artist instead of 3D.
I thought these kind of as.. cough.. managers would only exist in Turkey where there isn't much of a game development expererience.. but Australia ? Holy Panzers !
I am disappointed in world...
I work for my dream studio. Sony santa monica is by far the best working experience I could ever dream of outside of working for myself. Everyone is super talented from art to design to programming, the tech is awesome, the games are great, and everyone hold their own. I never have to worry about a weak link in production, or trying to cover bad decisions with art, or having a programmer say it can't be done, or look at me like I am an idoit when I want to do something completely insane. I have been making games for over 10 years and I didnt think I would ever be a part of a place like this. I just wish great studios and working environments were not so hard to come by in this indusrty. If so the past 10 years would have been much better in terms of quality of life and stress levels.
I thought these kind of as.. cough.. managers would only exist in Turkey where there isn't much of a game development expererience.. but Australia ? Holy Panzers !
I am disappointed in world...
Yeah I read through most of that as well, pretty shocking... When I was working in QA at Vigil I was told by a manager that a lot of studios will actually plan production around the idea that you will have crunch time near the end of the cycle. Seems like if you plan things properly from the start crunch time wouldn't exist, but how often do things really go to plan anyways?
I think probably the most important thing for me when it is time to choose a studio is what kind of games they are working on. It would be cool to work on something that really captures my imagination and something that everyone is excited about.
A place that has an idea of good gameplay is important to me too, since good gameplay is one of the most important aspects of a game. I really don't want to derail this thread by saying this, but look at Diablo 3 lol, that game looked amazing but poor design choices that seemed to be driven by greed caused the game to be far less epic than it could have been, and I would imagine being rather disappointed if I worked on the art for a game that fell short due to bad design choices.
This is a pretty awesome answer. Really, all the other things can come and go, but if you don't have these things then the rest don't matter.
Until you and your awesome coworkers show up to a locked building and find out you have no jobs from reading a Kotaku article.
I dunno, I value the art creation and satisfaction of the job as much as most people, but job security, benefits if you work in a country without universal healthcare, fair financial remuneration, working hours that allow me to have a well rounded life outside of work, are higher on the list than working next to an awesome artist. Really there is no reason not to have both, other than the current setup of most companies. I only make mention because there actually are plenty of studios where one can work with other awesome people on awesome projects, and quality of life still sucks in the long term because it only lasts for a few years, or the crunch starts, or the game makes hundreds of millions and you see a micro fraction of that, if any.
I'm a little late to the party on this one but I cant help but post a reply
I'd love to work at a studio for a console game that has unique, captivating game play and trying to do something different rather than trying to sell x amount of copies. I'd take a pay cut for that!
-I haven't been in the industry long enough to decide how I'd want management to be, but in general they would be transparent, direct and accessible.
-people would be multi disciplined. There wouldn't be people who only do one thing and know nothing else. Roles would be switchable depending on the project.
-I'd be able to relate well with my co-workers. This obviously isn't a must as in general work is not for having get togethers and sleepover parties, but hey this is my dream studio!
I don't know if this is the usual but for the most part I've had not a whole lot in common with people I've worked with. I'm an unmarried/childless breakcore enthusiast and I don't like dive bars, tv/most movies or sports. I've seemed to have limited myself with that description.
-Everything else is fair game to me, free dinners/snacks, special events and free stuff is nice but I wouldn't miss them at all if they weren't there.
I'd like to work in ANY game studio probably something fantasy based I think... and somewhere with sunshine, lack of crunch and encourages my creative input...
I'm only 22, recently graduated and a CGI artist at a vis studio and I'm already sick of crunch :O My boss is a former 3D artist and he's still unbelievably unrealistic - so much for colleague owned; its not all its cracked up to be!
I'd like to eventually make my way to Bethesda, there's a lot of talent over there, and aside from this here website, I learned everything that I know from dissecting Bethsoft games and modding them.
Treats me like an adult. One with a family. One who needs security in his work place and will not take naive risks that will put me or my family at any risk at all.
Treats me like a professional. Desires my opinion. Respects my opinion.
Knows its role in the industry its trying survive inside of. Has larger aspirations than 'make videogames'.
The employees:
Makes me question how much I really know. Knows more than I do about my own job. Knows more than I do about development. Brings knowledge from experiences gained outside of the videogames bubble.
Understands the definition of collaboration. Understands the definition of discussion.
has work to be done, not a group of 200 incompetent individuals who take more than 2 hour lunches, treats eachother like kids and don't just sit around oogling the screen all day....
not basing that on any experience or anything.. no no, just brainstorming
Up front honesty, and a sense of security. Projects that motivate and innovate from the company, and employees that have passion, but are also just all around good people. Yeah love to work at that kinda place.
Replies
Somewhere with some really talented artists that I can learn from
I don't think so... Blizzard works on big titles and they encourage you to work 8 hr days, and overtime is paid overtime. So to do overtime you would prbly have to be approved first. If you can't do your work in 8 hrs then you are doing something wrong. If you don't have enough time and you are working hard, then its over scoped. The whole what project doesn't have a little bit of bad management is a statement that we should encourage people to stay away from. If we want to change the industry, those changes come through us. So we need to be clear of what can be done, and express the limitations of our work. A good workplace will have these, and trust your work. Not exploit you.
Like everyone said... time is too precious to be wasted, and it does fly by. I just think the motivations of a studio would be more productive when the passion to make something memorable and not a money maker is there. But its hard... a company has to make revenue to stay in business. Here at 1p, we do pretty awesome, i don't have to get worried about my job for the time being, and i enjoy the tech and all the stuff i learn everyday. Apart from being in direct contact with the game impact in art, design and gameplay.
it's a nice thread. I like the ideas of what would make a better studio.
Most managers would love him though!! And he would quickly rise through the ranks and probably be a producer / director in no time :poly122:
In other words, "I'm too ugly to get a date." :poly142:
Seriously though, life is short and working long hours might be good.... for your boss, as he drives away in his brand new porsche from all your "long hours."
In the end, not many people really give a rat's ass if you modeled that park bench for Grand Theft Auto 12. You'll burn yourself out with that mentality, and like the others have said, you're just making the industry a bad place to work.
Balance is a good thing, protect your free time.
Note: I am a total noob and these are just my assumptions
Actually it can be quite bad for morale if your team consists of a few guys like that and the rest being regular people who might have families. I think with paid overtime its better, at least the others won't think "he works more than we do for free and we look like lazy ass*oles and now we have to sacrifice time we'd spend with kids/family/friends".
Then again if you're a boss you should either pay people for OT, or else you don't leave work before they do.
Volition
Epic
Sumo Digital
AM-2(hey it is dream studio!)
you know whats up
DICE
Crytek
Of the big ones. Ultimately, I think a successful fast growing indie would be perfect, as I like small teams and working on a variety of things.
At this point in your career that kind of exuberant enthusiasm is going to serve you very well when it comes to hammering together the amazing portfolio that'll get you the great industry job where you won't have to work ludicrous hours.
Torn Banner Studios is somewhere I'd like to work but unlikely!
I'd love to work for sumo, especially as I live in the same city and I really like what they do but I'm sure they must outsource a lot of their art as they seem to have a really strong core team of 3d artists and don't seem to take on juniors at all...
Dish!!:poly121:
I doubt I would make it to either though.
Agreed. Man some of you guys being kinda shitty towards someone who simply expressed their excitement to work in the games industry. Unless I missed something, I don't think he once ever implied he wants to work for free and intentionally screw you over. Nobody has a totally realistic idea of what the games industry is like until they actually work in it. And I think that the blame for those situations should fall more on the managers and studios who think like that, rather than new artists who are just excited to work. I agree with what you guys are saying, but it could have been said way more politely. Way to make out industry seem so welcoming.
not with that attitude!
Well that seems a little uncalled for, right?
Thanks, both of you. I appreciate it. I'm in no way discouraged, because I never really thought me wanting to work hard was a bad choice(when is it ever?). I think the industry(or any industry, or anything for that matter) is something that has to be experienced personally, instead of through posts on the internet telling me how to feel.
exactly this, i just want to work in a highly motivated extremely talented team where i feel challenged and learn from my colleagues
Haha, the reason why I said that is sort of long. With the recommendation of everyone here, I am getting my degree in traditional art. Problem is, I'm hooked on the stuff now. I don't even do much game related stuff. I'm not sure if I'll jump back into the industry, but if I do, I'll definitely be a 2D artist instead of 3D.
Jesus Christ ! Just read the whole thing !
I thought these kind of as.. cough.. managers would only exist in Turkey where there isn't much of a game development expererience.. but Australia ? Holy Panzers !
I am disappointed in world...
Yeah I read through most of that as well, pretty shocking... When I was working in QA at Vigil I was told by a manager that a lot of studios will actually plan production around the idea that you will have crunch time near the end of the cycle. Seems like if you plan things properly from the start crunch time wouldn't exist, but how often do things really go to plan anyways?
I think probably the most important thing for me when it is time to choose a studio is what kind of games they are working on. It would be cool to work on something that really captures my imagination and something that everyone is excited about.
A place that has an idea of good gameplay is important to me too, since good gameplay is one of the most important aspects of a game. I really don't want to derail this thread by saying this, but look at Diablo 3 lol, that game looked amazing but poor design choices that seemed to be driven by greed caused the game to be far less epic than it could have been, and I would imagine being rather disappointed if I worked on the art for a game that fell short due to bad design choices.
We started an FPS game 3 years ago with 2 of my friend and now we are at late production stages.
I'm going to move to US and work there. Of coarse it's hard to immigrate and then get a work visa but I'm sure I will
I would love to work in Naughty Dog and Respawn !
Until you and your awesome coworkers show up to a locked building and find out you have no jobs from reading a Kotaku article.
I dunno, I value the art creation and satisfaction of the job as much as most people, but job security, benefits if you work in a country without universal healthcare, fair financial remuneration, working hours that allow me to have a well rounded life outside of work, are higher on the list than working next to an awesome artist. Really there is no reason not to have both, other than the current setup of most companies. I only make mention because there actually are plenty of studios where one can work with other awesome people on awesome projects, and quality of life still sucks in the long term because it only lasts for a few years, or the crunch starts, or the game makes hundreds of millions and you see a micro fraction of that, if any.
I'd love to work at a studio for a console game that has unique, captivating game play and trying to do something different rather than trying to sell x amount of copies. I'd take a pay cut for that!
-the studio would look something like this:
http://library.ucsc.edu/sites/default/files/imagecache/4-large-width550/images/Mchenryentrance1_1.jpg
-I haven't been in the industry long enough to decide how I'd want management to be, but in general they would be transparent, direct and accessible.
-people would be multi disciplined. There wouldn't be people who only do one thing and know nothing else. Roles would be switchable depending on the project.
-I'd be able to relate well with my co-workers. This obviously isn't a must as in general work is not for having get togethers and sleepover parties, but hey this is my dream studio!
I don't know if this is the usual but for the most part I've had not a whole lot in common with people I've worked with. I'm an unmarried/childless breakcore enthusiast and I don't like dive bars, tv/most movies or sports. I've seemed to have limited myself with that description.
-Everything else is fair game to me, free dinners/snacks, special events and free stuff is nice but I wouldn't miss them at all if they weren't there.
-good scheduling and minimal crunch is a given.
Yeah I'm a dreamer..
Beer!
I'm only 22, recently graduated and a CGI artist at a vis studio and I'm already sick of crunch :O My boss is a former 3D artist and he's still unbelievably unrealistic - so much for colleague owned; its not all its cracked up to be!
I don't know about this, seems awfully radical.
The employees:
Bonus:
not basing that on any experience or anything.. no no, just brainstorming