Froya's art looking for harsh critique

Froya

Hello my name is Scott (Froya) and I am a year 2 student studying games design. I am new to modelling and texturing but have been painting for 1 and a half years or so, concepts etc. I am looking to post my artwork I am doing in class and out of to ask for any feedback at all to help me progress and learn as a artist. Please be as harsh as you want as I want to know what I must improve on and what I must do to become better. Thank you so much for your time and effort for reading this thread.

Froya

we had around a week or so to texture this cyborg woman. I have to put more effort in the fingers and arm but i was stuck for ideas and am quite slow.

Rednaz

The first thing i noticed is that here hands are rather big, might be because it's stylized but not sure. Also her knees are pointing inwards too much, same with the feet which makes the pose look awkward. The neck also looks abit too thick. Good luck!

BARDLER

Hard to critique the model since it is such a low poly old school model and is not using normal or spec maps. That being said he arms are to long, the metal bar you have at her elbow doesn't really make sense to me, and her legs are turned in to much.

Froya

Hello i would like critique on my texture as you can see i did not do the model and i could not change the model in any way.

Froya

that was because my task was just to texture and choose from three models and she was one of the models, she is a cyborg/lady and is stylized in that way.

almighty_gir

BARDLER wrote: »

Hard to critique the model since it is such a low poly old school model and is not using normal or spec maps. That being said he arms are to long, the metal bar you have at her elbow doesn't really make sense to me, and her legs are turned in to much.

so you don't think it's possible to critique any art that doesn't have normal or spec maps?

wow...


anyway, my only real crit is that you could do with some more contrast, and work more at fine details with a 1pixel brush... for examples of totally badass low res work, check this out:



http://www.bobotheseal.com/published_art.htm

notice the real depth of colour, and the use of really tight brushwork to bring out highlights and accentuate shading.

snake85027

if she is a cyborg I would take advantage of the face area and maybe add some metal plating or something there to show a sign of being a cyborg. How are her arms suppose to bend. even though the model doesnt show how, maybe you can add some metal cylinder joints to fake that in the texture..

CactusFantastico

One thing I would recommend would be to turn off texture filtering which is best for low poly models so it doesn't make it look blurry. Also maybe sharpening the texture could have a nice effect but definitely listen to Almighty_Gir.

Froya

almighty_gir wrote: »

anyway, my only real crit is that you could do with some more contrast, and work more at fine details with a 1pixel brush.

notice the real depth of colour, and the use of really tight brushwork to bring out highlights and accentuate shading.

yeah thanks a lot for your time to give me an example and to show me what i must work on. I totally agree with you and i will be working towards that balance for my future work. I used to do texture/paintings that were too bright now they tend to be too low in contrast from low to high levels of light so i need to find a medium within that defiantly. Yeah i tried quite a bit to push with the one pixel brush but i can work at it harder to make the lines more defined. Thanks again!

Froya

snake85027 wrote: »

if she is a cyborg I would take advantage of the face area and maybe add some metal plating or something there to show a sign of being a cyborg. How are her arms suppose to bend. even though the model doesnt show how, maybe you can add some metal cylinder joints to fake that in the texture..

ok but i wanted the design to be clean cut so i chose for her to have a woman's face and torso but then have mechanical parts to her as if she had no limbs and there are mechanical. I could have put effort into forcing that point though by things like adding exposed areas of inside her body with wires showing etc. I don't know how they are to bend i didn't model the character it was done by someone from SplashDamage if i am not mistaken but i should have shown some more live with the metal joint connecting the two arm pieces.

Froya

CactusFantastico wrote: »

One thing I would recommend would be to turn off texture filtering which is best for low poly models so it doesn't make it look blurry. Also maybe sharpening the texture could have a nice effect but definitely listen to Almighty_Gir.

yes i have done that, maybe i should have rendered the image in maya to show i have done that as it is very visible when i put it into udk and took away the texture filter. Yeah i defiantly need to work on refinement as i am very slow at the process and didn't do enough of it to really push the character.

skurmedel

I think it's a bit too dark overall. It just looks "poorly" lit if you see what I mean, the sides of the legs and arms just disappear into the dark void. Also the netting doesn't read too well even in the flat texture sheet.

The face looks really good in the sheet but applied to the model it looks off. Especially the chin area, perhaps a problem with the model?

Froya

@skurmedel yeah i understand what you mean i should have carried on with the colours in the designs to make it more readable and to push the concept further. Ok what would you recommend with the netting? i knew what i was trying to do but i never knew how to push it, maybe more research would have been handy. Thanks for the face but i think that i should have maybe made the chin more prominent or something i am unsure, could be to do with the uvs on the model but i should have sorted it in the texturing so there wasnt/isnt a problem.

almighty_gir

did a reeeeally fast paintover, literally all i did was paint with the standard brush at between 1 - 5 pixels, and set the hardness of the brush to 75%. the thing i was going for, was trying to define key areas... eyelids and such with the 1px brush, eyelashes, the irises as well...

then i kinda went mad with the cyborg thing.

EVIL

another thing is the texture layout, you use allot of texture space for the hands, but so little for the chest plate. I think the whole layout could be better balanced.

Froya

@almighty_gir ok thanks for the tips and for taking time out of your day to do that which is awesome! i like what you did with the eyes but i should have pushed them more often, i am unsure about the exposed shapes behind the skin but that is just personal preference as i like females to be just that but would look awesome with males for sure, thanks again!

@evil i was not able to change any uvs or change anything about the model all i could do was to texture thats it, no modification even to the uvs.

Froya

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pyra

generally too dull. not dull as in boring. dull as in, it looks like it was coloured with pastel. needs some brighter area as areas of focus. could also bake in the shadows and the lights. for example, under the boobs and the butt. also. give a little more highlights to places where yo have segmented edges. this would be especially important since you do not have normal maps and spec maps. (i am presuming that the engine also lights things up rather poorly. ie. cant do self-shadowing)

i've gone and drawn over your image a little to show what i mean. left and right for comparison.


PS: also, i think you meant for the arms to be some sort of cyborg attachment. that doesnt translate very well to my brain. like someone said before, it just look like a big arm. what you would need to do is exaggerate some features more so they are clearly not human. for example, at the elbow, you have a metal bar for a bone or something. make that thinner so it seems impossible to be organic or make it hard and angled like a machine part.

it also seems that the machine parts start from the shoulder, if not, at the elbow. where ever the machine part starts from, you would probably differentiate the point of connection from the rest of the body. for example, if i had a machine arm attached to a shoulder stump, the flesh around the shoulder stump will be unnatural looking. may that be a little pale or has enlarged veins. and even though your character is mostly covered, it will be good to have a way of showing it.

pps: what engine is this for?

Froya

@pyra hello i was using the unreal engine and took off texture filtering and lighting as they pixelate the image at such a low resolution and was advised that was the best way with the texture size etc. Yeah i think it is that i was scared to go too bright as my paintings used to be way too bright and now too dull so i need to find a happy medium to make something in high contrast. I agree i should have made the whole arm mechanical so it was obvious and was a good way to separate the mech from the human (should area). Yeah i think i wanted to make it so it looked like a arm but was robotic (some sort of transplant or something) but as you can see it doesn’t translate well.

Froya

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Fuzzyblott

Her hands are big and her arms are really long...could be the style though.

almighty_gir

love how people are critiquing the model, which was made by MoP some years ago...

this is just a texture pimp guys.

Froya

@almighty_gir thank you someone sane and who has seen and read about the work and to see that i needed critique on the texture alone as that was my task.

Froya

Hello again this is my second brief and i have now the objective to make a character for DOTA2 so i did concept art (unfinished) and had to make a 3d model of that concept and texture it under 600 tris. I have placed a texture on there now to see how it would map but this is not the final version at all and would love critique on poly distribution or anything that you feel is wrong with the model so I can get it as close to my concept as i can! p.s i took away the arms as it would be useless as he has 4 legs and would only use them and the poly count would be too high unless taken from somewhere else.

terry1337

lighten up your textures use some higher values maybe this helps http://media.steampowered.com/apps/dota2/workshop/Dota2CharacterArtGuide.pdf and try not to use solid blacks and why is he missing his arms looks weird and he still has his main weight carried by his front legs?.
maybe check out some other peoples concept of 4 legged beasts people etc.
watch some more human anatomy ^^ good luck

AlphaMeow

Your heading in the right direction, your beginning to notice the difference between some materials like in the skin and the breast plate. However you need to push the definition between your materials further. My advice would be to...

1) Plan your materials, break your model down into different material types. Get a good idea for how many materials this model will be made of. Then limit yourself, sometimes too much is too much. Since your only making a tiny diffuse map on this particular model just stick with a few materials.

2) Gather reference for those material types and even possible material types ( look at red ).

3) Check color harmonies, again less colors would probably be better so the model is easier to read.

4) When your painting observe the difference between each material type, see how each material is different from one another. Pick a single ambient light source right now it seems like there is a stronger light source coming from the upper right. Which could look improper depending which environment she will be in.

Red: Observe the difference between the industrial steel compared to the aluminium. See how soft the specular is compared to steel. Keep a close eye on rim light, Fresnel, specular, noise, reflections, gloss, matte, direct illumination, indirect illumination ect....

Teal: Try something different to add contrast between similar material types.

5) Listen to to almighty_gir he will teach you how to woman-z. Paint in that facial anatomy her face looks very flat right now. Gir has that terminator thing going on in the forehead, maybe incorporate it other places as well, add spots of broken armor with wires exposed.

Since your only using a diffuse map your really going to have to push materials further in your painting. I see your already using ambient occlusion so I wont comment on that. I have no idea whats going on in the back of her pants thing if those are cloth folds they are not reading like folds. Adding something that glows to the top and bottom half of this cyborg would help sell this futuristic/cyborg idea.



Opinions: The pigeon toe is bugging me. Twist the foot? :poly124:

Froya

@AlphaMeow 1) yeah i definatly need to do that, i have tried to do it and it hasnt work so i need to do much more research as i do do this but i tend to look at referances now and then and not fully understand other than anatomy which i have an ok understand of.

2) yeah i wanted them to be metal on the back but didnt push it enough to show the whole leg or anything like that for that matter.

Thanks a lot for your time and effort! just finished my model now and would love opinions on the texture the model or anything to help me progress would be fantastic

AlphaMeow

1) If those are three toes they need to be tweaked in such a way that they could be usable. Currently there is no way he could walk on those lil'things. Look at ninja turtle for reference.

2) I think that's hair? Fix up hair texture and size to make it look like that's the hair from his head.

3) Major neck muscle is off slightly, look at reference, just moving it inward a lil bit would make it look much better.

4) Hips are big, but its ok. Pants folds needs another pass at them.

5) Wobble line...

6) Legs want as much definition as the pecks.

Ear could use some geometry.

Moosebish

Is there are reason you specifically working with such low polys and texture sizes? DOTA2's characters have higher tri counts and higher texture res. If you limit yourself too much you'll never be able to get the detail that they do, simply because you are limiting yourself so much..

Here's the DOTA 2 character creation sheet that outlines how they make their character choices. Its a great read for anyone who hasn't seen it:

http://media.steampowered.com/apps/dota2/workshop/Dota2CharacterArtGuide.pdf

Froya

Hello again its been a while, but im back and uploading my work! this is for a brief for a prop under 600 tris (mine is 594) and which ever texture you decided to choose (i did 256x256 as i like the unfiltered texture look and its pixely? look) hopefully you can spare time to help me develop by telling me harshly what i need to change and what needs work, i am here to improve thank you for your time! p.s the screenshots at the bottom are in udk where i have made the sword into a weapon and it hurts the ai through kismet.

Froya

These are for concept briefs i had to design a main character (Cowboy), Cannon fodder



and then two, a soldier and a tank, from the same visual family (these are the only two that should look similar the rest are different briefs, 3 in total)

if you could show me how to improve and which areas to improve or even take time out of your day to tell me why its bad that would help a lot, i also had to put them into a background but this was more of an afterthought the real objective was the characters themselves for me. Need so much advice on poses and legs plus much more!

Notes

Since your tpage is 256x256, are you working on a 512x512 tpage in photoshop; then re sizing to 256x256 when you're done? You'll get alot more details working this way rather than just starting with a 256x256 texture.

Design wise, just to comment on one I think your cowoboy doesn't read cowboy...pirate maybe??? Cannon Fodder, what ever that is could be interperted differently by the one who's viewing. A cowboy has a pre determined stereotype that almost everyone can relate to and your cowboy doesn't portray that. I would say work off of a stereo type and change a few things here and there to suit your environment.
Cowboy

Froya

ah ok i never did it that way as i thought if i can do it in 256 then if i ever went high it would be easy and no where near as restrictive, also does it not get blurry or what ever? i did it before but i guess you just have to zoom in and work in the details.

Yeah i don't know if he is a cowboy or whatever just wanted him to be an anti hero a bit of a bad ass but should have pushed his identity to one side or another, yeah the cannon fodder is just some weird vulture human thing kinda inspired by how messed up Serious Sam is i think. I definitely should have worked in a pose to push the idea of his personality or how similar he is to a stereotype for sure.

angieb1970

For your sword, I would ask if you want the blade not fully curved? Maybe tweak the blade vertices to make a smoother sharper curve. Looking at the texture, I would analyse the importance of each part more before uv mapping, so the areas that are small and less important have less space on the texture map than other parts. For example, parts such as the blade, which needs to be given the most space as it's the focal point of the prop.

Froya

thank you for your reply yeah i agree i have verts on the handle i don't need i could have used to make the blade more curved, i did try and put the more important in the biggest places but where and how would you arrange it? i thought it was ok how i did it only because i don't know where to put things other than to fill the space. Also did you mean like a straight of the sword then it goes to a sharp curve then to just have a whole curve blade?

Froya

This is my first ever high poly bake of a wood floor, anyway i can improve the textures or normal or specular or model please comment as all are welcome so i can learn where i am going wrong and to push myself, thanks.

Froya

This is the wall i have done for my dojo, i have also done a verient above it with a new bamboo/wood square along with my original wood textured floor i did and shown on the previous post, any kind of critism and feedback is hugely welcomed!

Froya

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Froya

Hi again. I have tried to learn from my mistakes and posting in this forums along with other feedback. I wanted to see how far i can go by just pushing myself but now i feel i have hit a wall and i need as much crique as possible so i can push my work.

I have recently modeled, rigged and textured this bug but my texture is not great. Its an OK start but i dont know how to push it and in what direction so any help would be great. I can't change my model as my hand in is very soon (My fault ) but the diffuse needs as much help as it can get.

Any advice or tips would be great.



also a direct link if you need to see the texture/model fully (http://postimg.org/image/54rmcjjvh/full/)

butt_sahib

Hey man looking awesome

My two cents:

1- For the latest model you should post wires aswell. The texture is still lacking the surface detail (values, highlights,contrast,environment reflections) which would make this look bad ass. Its there but you need to push it more and put in more polish The texturs look alot better than your previous ones though, so you are definitely on the right path!
2- Dojo looking pretty sick. You should try/learn ndo man. that would have been perfect for the job. oh and you dont have to mention the polycount of your highres source.

Great job man keep chugging! Good luck!


p.s.
funny how no one cept gir knew this was mOps sdk lol

Wendy de Boer

butt_sahib wrote: »

Hey man looking awesome

p.s.
funny how no one cept gir knew this was mOps sdk lol

Except it's not MoP's SDK. :poly136:
It's actually by Slaught:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70607

Froya

butt_sahib wrote: »

Hey man looking awesome

My two cents:

1- For the latest model you should post wires aswell. The texture is still lacking the surface detail (values, highlights,contrast,environment reflections) which would make this look bad ass. Its there but you need to push it more and put in more polish The texturs look alot better than your previous ones though, so you are definitely on the right path!
2- Dojo looking pretty sick. You should try/learn ndo man. that would have been perfect for the job. oh and you dont have to mention the polycount of your highres source.

Great job man keep chugging! Good luck!


p.s.
funny how no one cept gir knew this was mOps sdk lol

Ha yes that was done a while back and they all got confused even though i said it wasn't my model, oh well. Ok my bad, i thought i should but i was unsure as i just needed the texture crit at this moment. Yeah those others i did a while back and that previous environment was finished as my second year project, around 10 months ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtdYeXhxsK0) but i know about nDo as i use it quite a bit now i just didn't then ha.

Ok i do struggle with material definition as i tend to paint just to paint and not to paint in materials (if that makes sense?). I will just keep looking at references and try to replicating that. You see i understand this i just don't seem to be able to put this into my paintings too well .

Pabs

hey, i really like your latest piece.
the only thing i am not a fan of is the brush work, but that's just personal preference.
(at that scale it's barely noticeable)

keep at it

butt_sahib

my bad demonprincess

Froya

Hello again, thank you all for your feedback it was very helpful and let me understand the problems i have and had on my bug model. That project has finished and can be seen on my portfolio www.wells-foster.com with it rigged and in my level. But my next project is a mini one before i apply to studios in a junior position which involves zbrush and more natural objects and foliage as that is what my portfolio lacks atm.

Speaking of that project i have just sculpted this rock in zbrush as thats the programme i see many studios require the employee to have a good grasp of. All crit welcome on the sculpting of the rocks and also where i am going wrong with the low poly mesh before i UV and texture it. Thank you for your time.

Shrike

I dont know if school demands that, but dont do your own concepts and model them after

If you want to train in concepts, then do some in your free time, but really, forget about doing concepts. Its too late to start traditional art / drawing now if youre only at that level. People doing good concepts spend time on that, you dont want to imagine.

All you are doing is heavily crippling and delaying your progress on your 3D character art that is a extremely hard task already which will take you a lot of time and dedication to pull of on a decent level. When your character art is cutting edge, then you can spend your time on concepts, there will be enough time left for that, but dont waste any more on that now. Even if you were at a relatively good level you would have very low chances of doing anything with it that makes money.

You are year 2 on university you dont have any second to spare.
You need the accuracy and complexity of real objects or characters from top end 2D artists to grow and progress.
You have some good ideas with your concepts but you need the many varied challenges that real things or complex concepts bring.
Trust me, i made the same mistake and I could be a lot better in the 3D department If I wouldnt have made own concepts. Also people can hardly crit on your own things being not accurate.

All that counts in your portfolio later is realism, anything else is a lot less worth. Also start with specular, gloss and normals right away, you will be expected to do realistic stuff in about a year I suppose. Also decide between environment and characters as soon as possible.
So far your environment looks better than your characters imo, and it be a little easier to start if you dont know anatomy already. The rocks look good but you really gotta bring it on now.
Also if you have to graduate soon, think about an internship. Only like one third of people graduating get a junior position soon after. This is my honest stuff, it is in good intent and i wish you luck.

Froya

Shrike: thanks for the reply but those posts were years ago i have done a project and more after that that i have not posted and can be seen on my portfolio site. I have already graduated and i really just wanted a crit on my rock i did today not on the work i did years ago. I hope that brings more clarity to the situation.

Shrike

well ill be damned, well the rock looks good imo, some parts look a little soft, but its about as detailed as any viewer would care. You could make it better I suppose, but the diminishing return is hit and it would not really matter I think and I cannot see any real flaws.
Its pretty hard to judge your sculpting skills on a rock however as it is as forgiving as it gets.

Froya

Ha, its ok it can get confusing as i don't post like i should do so i leave gaps, too many gaps tbf so it looks strange. I will try make the edges etc a bit more sharper. Im quite new to zbrush but have used mudbox for a bit. Yeah rocks are random so it less about fitting to a structure and design but i need this, foliage and trees to boost my portfolio as i only have a sci-fi level/short game along with props and concept art. Nothing more natural so any sculpting tips would be great!

Razorb

For one of your first attempts at sculpting, I think you did a pretty good job, but you should get it baked down and finish up the texturing if you want more critique

The good thing about rocks is that they have really fast turnaround and you should be able to see yourself improve with each one, if you really push it that is.

post more post more !