NAY BROTHERS, shouldst we fight this day and seek the destruction of one another?! Nay, for whereby is it that the moon should be without her sun or the sun without his moon? Thereby we must make way for a new dawn, a new day rising from the foundations of the firmament. A terrible light shining with fervor and brilliance, an encroaching dark consuming and enveloping. A celestial body of both light and dark, moon and sun. The eclipse my brothers....is coming.
Well I don't agree with these set chests, creating a set demands alot of work you all know. Volvo is trying to push harder. In the other hand, adds more variety for sets, so more goes in.
This is really bad news for singles guys, I can see that isn't even worth trying so, gg.
I'm not anything close to a workshop artist but I'm a trader and I know the market very well and I find this chest very insulting, it's just a very low tier move to milk money off people's ignorance. So many people don't even know how to use the steam market in which you can get these sets for these prices (and getting lower as I post this):
Light of the Solar Divine - $1.24
Bessings of the Wildwing - $0.51
Aspects of Summer Set - $0.74
Slithereen Nobility - $1.06
Snowdrop - $1.63
Nightsilver Sentinel - $2.10
Featherfall - $1.95
Divine Ascension - $0.55
Crescent Moon - $1.59
Equine Emissary - $2.00
Yet the key costs $2.50, and the chest doesn't even have a chance for a courier? only an average "very rare" set that has no reason to be higher quality than Mythical just to bait traders into opening it, really??? WHY did they even make this chest?? It's so biased just like those Dota-cinema and ticket-promoted low quality cosmetics, now it's all about marketing and nothing about quality
If thats the case and you want to do this, I urge you to get together with friends and people you work well with together and make a brand for yourselves. If they want brands, then we'll give it to them.
:poly136: I've not really ever worked with anyone else. For me I feel that I'm in awkward place where I dont have the level of skill to offer anything to anyone else. But I do think the Red Moon is a great idea you guys have and I'm sure similar partnerships will help a lot of the best contributors here.
Well I don't agree with these set chests, creating a set demands alot of work you all know. Volvo is trying to push harder. In the other hand, adds more variety for sets, so more goes in.
This is really bad news for singles guys, I can see that isn't even worth trying so, gg.
Some of the most expensive items on the market are singles. I think there will still be a place for them, albeit a limited one. I know the standard key price is what Valve is all about but what if they did cheaper chests for just singles?
Even if they don't do that I can see valve still doing the very best singles every so often. Lets see what happens with Prostomogy and the chest he uploaded.
Well that escalated pretty quickly, needed the sleep yesterday night so didn't post anything than but to be honost I'm pretty happy to read the last 5 pages of this thread. It's means a lot of ppl think the same and the workshop and Valve are in a need to change some things.
I've started and quit several times making items for the workshop. I keep getting back because ater a few months i do get something ingame, (although I'm affraid that's something in the past) and I just like playing the game. The problems these last few months are that instead of the workshop being a nice showcase for items, it's becoming a more and more saturated business.
Havent had a single item for the last 4 months being on the front page, ppl get 1k votes in less than half an hour. Ppl downvote items so there items will get a higher rating. The innocents of the whole workshop has been gone for some time I'm affraid. I've never downvoted/reported a single item, except stolen onces. If I don't like an item I just don't vote and if you downvote leave a message with the things u don't like.
Not for pissing ppl off but some have brought this upon yourselfs. Since ppl know they can earn some serious money it's got a lot more serious. Ppl quit there day job so they can full time making workshop items, it's a big risk and although kudos for them, but lets face it you only do it so u can earns some serious money which you probably couldn't in your steady day job. Because of this the quality of the items went really high in a short amount of time, this means a lot of ppl (icluding me) are having a hard time producing the same quality if you only do this as a hobby.
The complete Workshop idea of ppl making items for their favorite game is almost gone and only the highly dedicated ppl will get items in the game this way. Offcourse I rather see high quality stuff in the game, but let's face it the hole workshop is getting a dark side and will be more a popularity thing than something for the gamer and artists.
Also Valve didn't communicated at all from the start, don't expect them to do this now. They might listen to the high popular workshop artist, but not to the common ones. This is how the hole world has been build up, it's all about money and how ppl look up to you.
Even if I wouldn't get a cent for some of the items it would allready be real fun to see something u made into a game. that's why i started 3d moddeling and still am today.
The workshop gave a good change for less professional artists, but i'm affraid that fairytale is all over...... Sadly
oh boy, so much to read since yesterday. a few things i like to point out.
Competition is never fair, someone will always have an advantage due to skills, experience and what not. The battlefield on which you compete might be 'fair' but the rest is not cause there are no equal chances for everyone. Everbody is a different person with different gifts and such. Competition can only be so fair but never totally 'fair'.
Art is a tough business because in the end it boils down to a bit of luck. Either you have it or you dont. Your work can be awesome, original and well crafted, if you are at the wrong place at the right time, you are still at the wrong place. Even if you are at the right place at the right time, how do you know? You dont, even if you did everything correct.
Creative work is always subject to being subjective, you cant judge art objectivly cause art is in the eye of the beholder. You cant crack that with dedication and hardwork cause its hard coded into the human genome. And this applies to dota2 items as to any other creative piece of work. Dont get me wrong, you can evaluate craftsmanship and all that, but it might even be done crappy and yet someone likes it. (I am not gonna touch on the matter of low quality items in dota2)
I had a long text written and cut it down to these three main statements cause it really got out of hand (with me writing). All I can say is: It's sad to see the real world crash into the workshop so harsh, it was good while it lasted, maybe it comes back, maybe its not even as grim as it looks right now. I can totally understand peoples frustration. Coming from an art trade, I can only say: Good luck to all of you who try to do this fulltime. I admire your courage.
First of all Anuxi is great and deserve the best! I hope this will be beneficial for her!
Secondly please think if you would be happy that almost all stuff you did is now bundled in single chest? I would not be comfortable with that because in long term revenue will be probably smaller than having those sets sold separately. Valve probably decided Anuxi can take this risk. Also once again they made allot of people mad on her...
Third thing you all forgot how much Anuxi did for us all:
- workers avalible thread here - she was only one that helped others get into this business
- she streams constantly to promote making sets in general
- she tweets about sets made by other people constantly
- she decided to make AMA with other artist despite she could make it only with herself
Who knows maybe Valve sees this and decided to care more about her as she cares more about others...?
Sorry for this to long talk but there was to much negativity in this thread. I think if Valve would said that they risked with this chest total revenue lost for previous Anuxi sets that could be more fair, but not for Anuxi so maybe they decided not to talk at all.
Hi, I've got a question about GFScape. Unfortunately I lost my previously extracted dota models and those provided by Valve seem obsolete(e.g. missing head piece for rubick). But when I try to extract them directly from dota now (following CyborgMatts tutorial), I get some "illegal characters" error and GFScape pretty much crashes. Only "solution" I got from google was to use latest version of GFScape, but no luck here. I've tried 1.8.3 to 1.8.5 (which AFAIK is the latest), veryfying dota files, but always the same error. Does someone know any way around this? Thanks
Something that no one mentioned was that desolator for dazzle in the new set. That doesn't make any type of sense at all. It's wrong and misleading and valve just broke all their rules in this new chest! Usually when I'm super confident that I'm winning a game I buy crazy items like diffusal blade for anti-mage but I will never under no circumstance buy desolator for dazzle! As again, it's not anuxi's fault, she had a fun twist in the name and the design but what's wrong is that it got in game in like a week time!?
This is not a slap on the face, this is a SPIT on the face of all creative and hard working artists of the wrokshop.
So, if your not willing to go through the same efforts as anuxxi... You honestly dont deserve the same benefits as she does.
Well the irony is that (with all do respect for her) there was no effort this time. It's all her old stuff that is in a chest (which is not her fault, no one would turn down such an offer, including myself)
...
My thoughts about this new chest:
I have lived in 6 different countries throughout my life. From Scandinavia all the way to south east Asia and and one thing that I have seen common in every culture is corruption! and valve is no exception. This is pure corruption and unfairness. It would have made sense 2 years ago to give a chest to one person but not anymore with all these amazing work from so many different people!
What's bad is that valve's corruption has lead people to be corrupted as well! We all remember that Empire middle man who was selling votes right?! has anyone ever asked how Yi gets 1000+ votes in only a few hours?! Do we even have that much of workshop viewrs/voters everyday?! Has anyone asked why player sets aren't getting in game as much as before?! Have you heard what happened?!
YOU KNOW WHAT?! I don't have any connections in gaming industry but if I had, I would have gone to other companies such as EA games, Blizzard, Ubisoft and etc and would show them what's going on here and would encourage them to open a workshop as well. All this effort, time, energy and creativity of so many talented people is literally going to waste because someone in valve likes feathers! We can all be spending this time doing the same thing, somewhere else that needs our skills and values creativity.
I would like to point out again that I'm not blaming any of the artists! I am blaming valve for bringing workshop to this point!
That logo was not offending anuxi at all. I do apologize that I didn't make it clear. The logo was pointing out that valve works with favoritism and if you want a higher chance of getting stuff into game you have to stop bringing new things on the table and just go with their favorite style!(And probably that won't work either at this point)
Yea it took me a bit to realize that nothing in this chest was new besides the dazzle set. So yea that is a bit weird and I can understand why some people would be upset. but yea im not upset by it or anything
I find this chest in particular a weird practice tho... because havent all the anuxxi fans already purchased her sets? I find it hard to imagine that the pool of customers would be big on this chest.
Something that no one mentioned was that desolator for dazzle in the new set. That doesn't make any type of sense at all. It's wrong and misleading and valve just broke all their rules in this new chest! Usually when I'm super confident that I'm winning a game I buy crazy items like diffusal blade for anti-mage but I will never under no circumstance buy desolator for dazzle! As again, it's not anuxi's fault, she had a fun twist in the name and the design but what's wrong is that it got in game in like a week time!?
This is not a slap on the face, this is a SPIT on the face of all creative and hard working artists of the wrokshop.
Well the irony is that (with all do respect for her) there was no effort this time. It's all her old stuff that is in a chest (which is not her fault, no one would turn down such an offer, including myself)
...
My thoughts about this new chest:
I have lived in 6 different countries throughout my life. From Scandinavia all the way to south east Asia and and one thing that I have seen common in every culture is corruption! and valve is no exception. This is pure corruption and unfairness. It would have made sense 2 years ago to give a chest to one person but not anymore with all these amazing work from so many different people!
What's bad is that valve's corruption has lead people to be corrupted as well! We all remember that Empire middle man who was selling votes right?! has anyone ever asked how Yi gets 1000+ votes in only a few hours?! Do we even have that much of workshop viewrs/voters everyday?! Has anyone asked why player sets aren't getting in game as much as before?! Have you heard what happened?!
YOU KNOW WHAT?! I don't have any connections in gaming industry but if I had, I would have gone to other companies such as EA games, Blizzard, Ubisoft and etc and would show them what's going on here and would encourage them to open a workshop as well. All this effort, time, energy and creativity of so many talented people is literally going to waste because someone in valve likes feathers! We can all be spending this time doing the same thing, somewhere else that needs our skills and values creativity.
First of all Anuxi is great and deserve the best! I hope this will be beneficial for her!
Secondly please think if you would be happy that almost all stuff you did is now bundled in single chest? I would not be comfortable with that because in long term revenue will be probably smaller than having those sets sold separately. Valve probably decided Anuxi can take this risk. Also once again they made allot of people mad on her...
Third thing you all forgot how much Anuxi did for us all:
- workers avalible thread here - she was only one that helped others get into this business
- she streams constantly to promote making sets in general
- she tweets about sets made by other people constantly
- she decided to make AMA with other artist despite she could make it only with herself
Who knows maybe Valve sees this and decided to care more about her as she cares more about others...?
Sorry for this to long talk but there was to much negativity in this thread. I think if Valve would said that they risked with this chest total revenue lost for previous Anuxi sets that could be more fair, but not for Anuxi so maybe they decided not to talk at all.
Who is attacking Anuxi? Cause I've been following this every second of today everyone is point at Valve and raising very interesting and valid concerns, no one is attacking anuxi, and if are, they're misguided.
And personally, if I were in those shoes, sure, I'd be happy for myself, but at the same time I'd also feel disappointed that no one else was able to share that moment. But she has not said anything on the topic yet, so who knows what's going threw her head, I will say it does suck that valve put her in this spotlight.
And in reguards to what Anuxi has done, I can name a bunch of artist that stream create tutorials, tweet other sets, and participate in polycount just as much, if not more than her. So honestly, that argument is weak at best, let's get real here.
The point is, we're not talking about Anuxi here, what she's done, or what she plans on doing. We're talking about the severe lack of communication on valves part, and the blatant, whether Valve knows they are doing it or not, favoritism expressed toward specific individuals and how it's having an obvious negative effect on the workshop.
And to those who are attacking Anuxi, Stop. Stop right now. She did nothing but get thrown into a spotlight by valve, and I can't even fathom the thoughts going threw her head reading the opinons expressed here.
I have lived in 6 different countries throughout my life. From Scandinavia all the way to south east Asia and and one thing that I have seen common in every culture is corruption! and valve is no exception. This is pure corruption and unfairness. It would have made sense 2 years ago to give a chest to one person but not anymore with all these amazing work from so many different people!
What's bad is that valve's corruption has lead people to be corrupted as well! We all remember that Empire middle man who was selling votes right?! has anyone ever asked how Yi gets 1000+ votes in only a few hours?! Do we even have that much of workshop viewrs/voters everyday?! Has anyone asked why player sets aren't getting in game as much as before?! Have you heard what happened?!
Er... This is not corruption. Favouritism is not necessarily corruption, and not necessarily as bad. No need to misleadingly blow this out of proportion for some random reader who doesn't know what is going on. I have my favourite artists, so do you, and so does Valve. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Not to mention Valve IS the system, they have all the say in what goes into Dota 2 and they have all the right to do whatever they want.
Secondly please think if you would be happy that almost all stuff you did is now bundled in single chest? I would not be comfortable with that because in long term revenue will be probably smaller than having those sets sold separately. Valve probably decided Anuxi can take this risk. Also once again they made allot of people mad on her...
I think it bears repeating that nobody is mad at Anuxi. I've not read anything to that extent in the last few pages. Pretty sure we all appreciate everything she's done for us so far as well. This isn't about Anuxi or her work, she just happens to be the one Valve chose to try the latest set idea with.
Er... This is not corruption. Favouritism is not necessarily corruption, and not necessarily as bad. No need to misleadingly blow this out of proportion for some random reader who doesn't know what is going on.
Well in my vocabulary, favoritism in judging means corruption. Specially when the competition is open and the identity of those who join it, is not concealed.
P.S. nothing to do with anuxi. I (like many others) was inspired by her and started making items after watching her interview in ti3.
@Andrew@Snowstorm I was referring not only to discussion here but also to general community feedback. I saw many comments on Anuxi workshop pages that are just pure aggression directed to her. Also Reddit is sometimes also very very nasty. And even here... Reza just could not resist to make feather logo... that is super low...
And yes you are right, Valve could say at least something, but maybe they are scared to admit they risked revenue from 11 sets just for this test...
@Andrew@Snowstorm I was referring not only to discussion here but also to general community feedback. I saw many comments on Anuxi workshop pages that are just pure aggression directed to her. Also Reddit is sometimes also very very nasty. And even here... Reza just could not resist to make feather logo... that is super low...
And yes you are right, Valve could say at least something, but maybe they are scared to admit they risked revenue from 11 sets just for this test...
I agree with you there, it sucks to see any agression toward her in any way over this matter.
Reza just could not resist to make feather logo... that is super low...
I'm saying that to valve not to her!
Actually I think she was smart to realize what their taste is and stick to it. Please don't cherry pick my post.
Thanks
i don't think would happen but we can organize as workshoppers who are here. if nobody doenst send any item to the workshop and sending protest pictures instead of items, maybe valve will communicate us. if they doesnt reply mails we can play hard.
@Andrew@Snowstorm I was referring not only to discussion here but also to general community feedback. I saw many comments on Anuxi workshop pages that are just pure aggression directed to her. Also Reddit is sometimes also very very nasty. And even here... Reza just could not resist to make feather logo... that is super low...
And yes you are right, Valve could say at least something, but maybe they are scared to admit they risked revenue from 11 sets just for this test...
i not really get the feather logo... can explain? reading this since i woke up like 9 hours ago.
I like how Reza put it and it might hold true. Lots of money is riding on the workshop and maybe much more than Valve expected considering their experience with TF2. It could be no longer about the serving the community but rather making the most of the community's money. Noone can eliminate that possibility as it is always there and it might have just grown bigger.
But then... And this is me speculating... The idea of the chest is to do the following:
- Since the game went official and out of beta, start reintroducing workshop artists to the people. And I would indeed be the best option for this for a lot of reasons.
- With China entering the market, it would be a good idea to bring to light what an artist can achieve and inspire Chinese artists into tthe workshop model. Similar to how many here admitted that Anuxi inspired you. Me included.
- Experimenting a new business model. I believe Anuxi would have been a first pick for the experiment.
So yeah, there is so much we don't know and at this point, it can be anything...
has anyone ever asked how Yi gets 1000+ votes in only a few hours?!
Not implying anything, but I find it intriguing how some items rocket up so hard, Yi's last CM set literally had all items in the top of the top page in a blink.
I really can't figure how people get insta-kilovotes.
I would like to point out again that I'm not blaming any of the artists! I am blaming valve for bringing workshop to this point!
That logo was not offending anuxi at all. I do apologize that I didn't make it clear. The logo was pointing out that valve works with favoritism and if you want a higher chance of getting stuff into game you have to stop bringing new things on the table and just go with their favorite style!(And probably that won't work either at this point)
Something that no one mentioned was that desolator for dazzle in the new set. That doesn't make any type of sense at all. It's wrong and misleading and valve just broke all their rules in this new chest! Usually when I'm super confident that I'm winning a game I buy crazy items like diffusal blade for anti-mage but I will never under no circumstance buy desolator for dazzle! As again, it's not anuxi's fault, she had a fun twist in the name and the design but what's wrong is that it got in game in like a week time!?
This is not a slap on the face, this is a SPIT on the face of all creative and hard working artists of the wrokshop.
Well the irony is that (with all do respect for her) there was no effort this time. It's all her old stuff that is in a chest (which is not her fault, no one would turn down such an offer, including myself)
...
My thoughts about this new chest:
I have lived in 6 different countries throughout my life. From Scandinavia all the way to south east Asia and and one thing that I have seen common in every culture is corruption! and valve is no exception. This is pure corruption and unfairness. It would have made sense 2 years ago to give a chest to one person but not anymore with all these amazing work from so many different people!
What's bad is that valve's corruption has lead people to be corrupted as well! We all remember that Empire middle man who was selling votes right?! has anyone ever asked how Yi gets 1000+ votes in only a few hours?! Do we even have that much of workshop viewrs/voters everyday?! Has anyone asked why player sets aren't getting in game as much as before?! Have you heard what happened?!
YOU KNOW WHAT?! I don't have any connections in gaming industry but if I had, I would have gone to other companies such as EA games, Blizzard, Ubisoft and etc and would show them what's going on here and would encourage them to open a workshop as well. All this effort, time, energy and creativity of so many talented people is literally going to waste because someone in valve likes feathers! We can all be spending this time doing the same thing, somewhere else that needs our skills and values creativity.
You wanna make money out of dota2?! Try this:
Are you for real?
Desolator/medallion of courage staff is a bit of fun on the idea that his ultimate does a huge amount of Armour reduction.
Valve often fast track items and sets that they really like.
This is in no way corruption. You have not been promised that your items will be accepted. This whole workshop thing is pretty much free pitching.
I imagine Yi gets lots of votes because they produce good quality work, high impact marketing and the community gets a lot of exposure to the work that they produce. You are making a pretty big accusation there.
Having less sets in game isn't corruption either, it is disappointing if they don't but it is not an obligation for Valve to implement ANY new content.
I agree that some more communication with Valve about what they plan to do with the workshop would be really great, especially for the full time workshoppers but I think you took it a little too far.
Desolator/medallion of courage staff is a bit of fun on the idea that his ultimate does a huge amount of Armour reduction.
Valve often fast track items and sets that they really like.
This is in no way corruption. You have not been promised that your items will be accepted. This whole workshop thing is pretty much free pitching.
I imagine Yi gets lots of votes because they produce good quality work, high impact marketing and the community gets a lot of exposure to the work that they produce. You are making a pretty big accusation there.
Having less sets in game isn't corruption either, it is disappointing if they don't but it is not an obligation for Valve to implement ANY new content.
I agree that some more communication with Valve about what they plan to do with the workshop would be really great, especially for the full time workshoppers but I think you took it a little too far.
Desolator is still more used as a main item on a lot of other heroes. So still your argument on that is weak.
As for what it Reza saying is just the opposite of over praising really. I have seen a lot better quality work vs Yi stuff and they don't even get a fraction of the votes that Yi get. Hell, even dotacinema can't push for that kind of votes often. Yet Yi pulls consistent votes on whatever he produces. Questionable? I would say so. Oh and please spare the argument of better promotion, networking... Yada Yada. Pretty everyone here knows and assumes that when they question stuff related to workshopvotes.
Maybe the reason that you think I'm going too far is because of the context. I'm not sating these only because of this chest.
A lot of annoying stuff have been happening in the workshop and we are all aware of it and everyone (except those who benefit from them) are pissed about it.
I just decided to say whatever I thought about workshop at once.
And please don't play that "good quality work" game on me. I'm not saying these things for myself. I began polygon modeling 4 months ago and I do this as a hobby. My concern is for fellows who work so good and so hard but don't get any attention.
True or not, it's probably a good idea to have some evidence before you go around making accusations.
I don't know Yi but I do know that their work is magnitudes better than mine so to me their vote counts seem fair.
If you are sitting around counting peoples votes, refreshing your own votes etc. then you probably would be better off modelling some more.
The fact that Yi is not the only one who does good job but is the only one who manages to get +1k vote in one day makes it questionable my friend!
And you are focusing too much on this part. As I said! she is playing her cards correctly. good for her. Bad for others who don't have the same voters and won't get any exposure. and Bad for valve for bringing workshop to this point.
At first glance it's an understandable business practice (obviously businesses exist to make money), but if they keep relying on a very select few people to be doing a majority of the work, what happens when those people no longer want to contribute for whatever reason? Instead of having a large, devoted base of artists to continue to draw from, they will get to the point where they alienate everyone else and when that well is dry then it's an uncomfortable situation for them.
I thought Valve was more of a long-term thinking company, but this seems quite the contrary. More happy workshop artists not only equals more art and sets, but more competition between everyone which will only propel the quality upwards, which is beneficial for everyone involved. Not to mention there will always be more choices, and nothing says that other people or even new members can't make a set that's incredibly popular. Who knows, the 'best/highest selling set ever' might not even have come out yet, and it could be by anyone here, if they don't get discouraged first by how Valve is handling the workshop currently. By limiting the amount of people involved you are harshly limiting creativity.
I just think it's better for the community as a whole INCLUDING Valve if they spread the love around and encourage more people to participate rather than alienate a majority of their current workshoppers. I look up to Valve a ton, but for the first time ever I'm really questioning their decision making abilities, at least as far as the workshop is concerned.
^ this
While this is awesome for me, and I'm guessing this is probably more for the Chinese launch than for the western audiences, it's feels terrible for the growth of the workshop as a whole.
There are a few things we've suggested to valve to help do more for the community like a Pro player set event to help link pro player deals with artists. A cool thing the community is doing is an AmA which was thankfully voted to be open for anyone to join. I try to help out new artists to break into the workshop, discussing with industry pro artists to have a go at the workshop and chiming in with workshop feedback.
So seeing something that can potentially destroy a lot of artists hopes on the workshop really saddens me
I don't blame any of you for your frustration. I was really surprised when I saw the update, I had no idea they were planning this at all.
I know valve does read polycount but emailing them this topic would also be a good idea.
Reyne, saying something in questionable is not an accusation. It just calls for further investigation. Added, I never compared Yi to my work. So don't go there aand definitely don't put wwords in people's mouths. I for one believe that there are a lot of work and artists who are better than Yi in every way and there are many of them.
True or not, it's probably a good idea to have some evidence before you go around making accusations.
Can't see an accusation there, he just finds it questionable - I too am intrigued on how that CM set got all five in the top page so quickly.
I was checking comments for a courier I published at the time, along with stats and other things to try to understand how popularity works on Steam, and it just got me puzzled, because it wasn't anywhere, it literally appeared in the top.
Maybe the reason that you think I'm going too far is because of the context. I'm not sating these only because of this chest.
A lot of annoying stuff have been happening in the workshop and we are all aware of it and everyone (except those who benefit from them) are pissed about it.
I just decided to say whatever I thought about workshop at once.
And please don't play that "good quality work" game on me. I'm not saying these things for myself. I began polygon modeling 4 months ago and I do this as a hobby. My concern is for fellows who work so good and so hard but don't get any attention.
I don't think the best way to advocate someone elses interests is to enter into a discussion with such toxic language. There is a difference between being concerned for a community and accusing people of cheating and corruption.
I really hope more artists are represented in the workshop soon but I'm not ready to say that people are cheating or practicing 'corruption' behind the scenes with valve.
As for the votes thing, I'm pretty sure there is almost no difference between 500 and 5000 votes. Valve decide almost independent of vote count.
EDIT: Pleas excuse my misinterpretation. Your language read as accusatory to me considering the proximity to claims of corruption. I don't want to start a fight with anyone, I just think we can be a lot calmer about this topic, especially if we dont rely on the workshop for a living.
I don't think the best way to advocate someone elses interests is to enter into a discussion with such toxic language. There is a difference between being concerned for a community and accusing people of cheating and corruption.
I really hope more artists are represented in the workshop soon but I'm not ready to say that people are cheating or practicing 'corruption' behind the scenes with valve.
As for the votes thing, I'm pretty sure there is almost no difference between 500 and 5000 votes. Valve decide almost independent of vote count.
I blamed/accused no one but valve; but it seems like you want to defend your early statement and you are not really reading what I write.
OK go ahead and keep defending yourself.
Desolator is still more used as a main item on a lot of other heroes. So still your argument on that is weak.
As for what it Reza saying is just the opposite of over praising really. I have seen a lot better quality work vs Yi stuff and they don't even get a fraction of the votes that Yi get. Hell, even dotacinema can't push for that kind of votes often. Yet Yi pulls consistent votes on whatever he produces. Questionable? I would say so. Oh and please spare the argument of better promotion, networking... Yada Yada. Pretty everyone here knows and assumes that when they question stuff related to workshopvotes.
She is making sets for female heroes. I don't think this is too hard to comprehend.
While this is awesome for me, and I'm guessing this is probably more for the Chinese launch than for the western audiences, it's feels terrible for the growth of the workshop as a whole.
There are a few things we've suggested to valve to help do more for the community like a Pro player set event to help link pro player deals with artists. A cool thing the community is doing is an AmA which was thankfully voted to be open for anyone to join. I try to help out new artists to break into the workshop, discussing with industry pro artists to have a go at the workshop and chiming in with workshop feedback.
So seeing something that can potentially destroy a lot of artists hopes on the workshop really saddens me
I don't blame any of you for your frustration. I was really surprised when I saw the update, I had no idea they were planning this at all.
I know valve does read polycount but emailing them this topic would also be a good idea.
I actually still believe they will release most of the Pro Gear sets once TI4 comes.
I blamed/accused no one but valve; but it seems like you want to defend your early statement and you are not really reading what I write.
OK go ahead and keep defending yourself.
Sorry I type a little slow and missed most of the responses to my post so edited it.
I am not trying to defend anyone. I don't want to have any aggression or ill feeling between us I was just taken aback by your post, but clearly I read it in the wrong tone.
I think we all can agree that there would be no such situation if Valve wrote "Guys we are testing new system!". Then made new crate with new sets/items or just took old crate that have items of several people (if new crates are hard to make) and put new or old set in it (mine OD set that was marked as accepted SIX months ago and still didn't made in game).
It's just all about lack of communication. Again.
Sorry I type a little slow and missed most of the responses to my post so edited it.
I am not trying to defend anyone. I don't want to have any aggression or ill feeling between us I was just taken aback by your post, but clearly I read it in the wrong tone.
Please excuse my mistake.
No hard feelings man!
I was angry {at valve} when I wrote the first post, I still am. Just wanted to clear that none of the artists are to be blamed. It's valve's responsibility for what's going on.
Replies
*cough* insanaphobia, bladeofevilsbane, and myself are in talks
WE EVEN HAVE A LOGO...somewhere.
#sorryNotSorry #justKiddingMaybe
That's because it's here
--edit-- ah damn blade beat me to it.
then i take yellow XD
This is really bad news for singles guys, I can see that isn't even worth trying so, gg.
Light of the Solar Divine - $1.24
Bessings of the Wildwing - $0.51
Aspects of Summer Set - $0.74
Slithereen Nobility - $1.06
Snowdrop - $1.63
Nightsilver Sentinel - $2.10
Featherfall - $1.95
Divine Ascension - $0.55
Crescent Moon - $1.59
Equine Emissary - $2.00
Yet the key costs $2.50, and the chest doesn't even have a chance for a courier? only an average "very rare" set that has no reason to be higher quality than Mythical just to bait traders into opening it, really??? WHY did they even make this chest?? It's so biased just like those Dota-cinema and ticket-promoted low quality cosmetics, now it's all about marketing and nothing about quality
:poly136: I've not really ever worked with anyone else. For me I feel that I'm in awkward place where I dont have the level of skill to offer anything to anyone else. But I do think the Red Moon is a great idea you guys have and I'm sure similar partnerships will help a lot of the best contributors here.
Some of the most expensive items on the market are singles. I think there will still be a place for them, albeit a limited one. I know the standard key price is what Valve is all about but what if they did cheaper chests for just singles?
Even if they don't do that I can see valve still doing the very best singles every so often. Lets see what happens with Prostomogy and the chest he uploaded.
I've started and quit several times making items for the workshop. I keep getting back because ater a few months i do get something ingame, (although I'm affraid that's something in the past) and I just like playing the game. The problems these last few months are that instead of the workshop being a nice showcase for items, it's becoming a more and more saturated business.
Havent had a single item for the last 4 months being on the front page, ppl get 1k votes in less than half an hour. Ppl downvote items so there items will get a higher rating. The innocents of the whole workshop has been gone for some time I'm affraid. I've never downvoted/reported a single item, except stolen onces. If I don't like an item I just don't vote and if you downvote leave a message with the things u don't like.
Not for pissing ppl off but some have brought this upon yourselfs. Since ppl know they can earn some serious money it's got a lot more serious. Ppl quit there day job so they can full time making workshop items, it's a big risk and although kudos for them, but lets face it you only do it so u can earns some serious money which you probably couldn't in your steady day job. Because of this the quality of the items went really high in a short amount of time, this means a lot of ppl (icluding me) are having a hard time producing the same quality if you only do this as a hobby.
The complete Workshop idea of ppl making items for their favorite game is almost gone and only the highly dedicated ppl will get items in the game this way. Offcourse I rather see high quality stuff in the game, but let's face it the hole workshop is getting a dark side and will be more a popularity thing than something for the gamer and artists.
Also Valve didn't communicated at all from the start, don't expect them to do this now. They might listen to the high popular workshop artist, but not to the common ones. This is how the hole world has been build up, it's all about money and how ppl look up to you.
Even if I wouldn't get a cent for some of the items it would allready be real fun to see something u made into a game. that's why i started 3d moddeling and still am today.
The workshop gave a good change for less professional artists, but i'm affraid that fairytale is all over...... Sadly
Competition is never fair, someone will always have an advantage due to skills, experience and what not. The battlefield on which you compete might be 'fair' but the rest is not cause there are no equal chances for everyone. Everbody is a different person with different gifts and such. Competition can only be so fair but never totally 'fair'.
Art is a tough business because in the end it boils down to a bit of luck. Either you have it or you dont. Your work can be awesome, original and well crafted, if you are at the wrong place at the right time, you are still at the wrong place. Even if you are at the right place at the right time, how do you know? You dont, even if you did everything correct.
Creative work is always subject to being subjective, you cant judge art objectivly cause art is in the eye of the beholder. You cant crack that with dedication and hardwork cause its hard coded into the human genome. And this applies to dota2 items as to any other creative piece of work. Dont get me wrong, you can evaluate craftsmanship and all that, but it might even be done crappy and yet someone likes it. (I am not gonna touch on the matter of low quality items in dota2)
I had a long text written and cut it down to these three main statements cause it really got out of hand (with me writing). All I can say is: It's sad to see the real world crash into the workshop so harsh, it was good while it lasted, maybe it comes back, maybe its not even as grim as it looks right now. I can totally understand peoples frustration. Coming from an art trade, I can only say: Good luck to all of you who try to do this fulltime. I admire your courage.
First of all Anuxi is great and deserve the best! I hope this will be beneficial for her!
Secondly please think if you would be happy that almost all stuff you did is now bundled in single chest? I would not be comfortable with that because in long term revenue will be probably smaller than having those sets sold separately. Valve probably decided Anuxi can take this risk. Also once again they made allot of people mad on her...
Third thing you all forgot how much Anuxi did for us all:
- workers avalible thread here - she was only one that helped others get into this business
- she streams constantly to promote making sets in general
- she tweets about sets made by other people constantly
- she decided to make AMA with other artist despite she could make it only with herself
Who knows maybe Valve sees this and decided to care more about her as she cares more about others...?
Sorry for this to long talk but there was to much negativity in this thread. I think if Valve would said that they risked with this chest total revenue lost for previous Anuxi sets that could be more fair, but not for Anuxi so maybe they decided not to talk at all.
This is not a slap on the face, this is a SPIT on the face of all creative and hard working artists of the wrokshop.
Well the irony is that (with all do respect for her) there was no effort this time. It's all her old stuff that is in a chest (which is not her fault, no one would turn down such an offer, including myself)
...
My thoughts about this new chest:
I have lived in 6 different countries throughout my life. From Scandinavia all the way to south east Asia and and one thing that I have seen common in every culture is corruption! and valve is no exception. This is pure corruption and unfairness. It would have made sense 2 years ago to give a chest to one person but not anymore with all these amazing work from so many different people!
What's bad is that valve's corruption has lead people to be corrupted as well! We all remember that Empire middle man who was selling votes right?! has anyone ever asked how Yi gets 1000+ votes in only a few hours?! Do we even have that much of workshop viewrs/voters everyday?! Has anyone asked why player sets aren't getting in game as much as before?! Have you heard what happened?!
YOU KNOW WHAT?! I don't have any connections in gaming industry but if I had, I would have gone to other companies such as EA games, Blizzard, Ubisoft and etc and would show them what's going on here and would encourage them to open a workshop as well. All this effort, time, energy and creativity of so many talented people is literally going to waste because someone in valve likes feathers! We can all be spending this time doing the same thing, somewhere else that needs our skills and values creativity.
You wanna make money out of dota2?! Try this:
Addition:
I would like to point out again that I'm not blaming any of the artists! I am blaming valve for bringing workshop to this point!
That logo was not offending anuxi at all. I do apologize that I didn't make it clear. The logo was pointing out that valve works with favoritism and if you want a higher chance of getting stuff into game you have to stop bringing new things on the table and just go with their favorite style!(And probably that won't work either at this point)
I find this chest in particular a weird practice tho... because havent all the anuxxi fans already purchased her sets? I find it hard to imagine that the pool of customers would be big on this chest.
Who is attacking Anuxi? Cause I've been following this every second of today everyone is point at Valve and raising very interesting and valid concerns, no one is attacking anuxi, and if are, they're misguided.
And personally, if I were in those shoes, sure, I'd be happy for myself, but at the same time I'd also feel disappointed that no one else was able to share that moment. But she has not said anything on the topic yet, so who knows what's going threw her head, I will say it does suck that valve put her in this spotlight.
And in reguards to what Anuxi has done, I can name a bunch of artist that stream create tutorials, tweet other sets, and participate in polycount just as much, if not more than her. So honestly, that argument is weak at best, let's get real here.
The point is, we're not talking about Anuxi here, what she's done, or what she plans on doing. We're talking about the severe lack of communication on valves part, and the blatant, whether Valve knows they are doing it or not, favoritism expressed toward specific individuals and how it's having an obvious negative effect on the workshop.
And to those who are attacking Anuxi, Stop. Stop right now. She did nothing but get thrown into a spotlight by valve, and I can't even fathom the thoughts going threw her head reading the opinons expressed here.
Er... This is not corruption. Favouritism is not necessarily corruption, and not necessarily as bad. No need to misleadingly blow this out of proportion for some random reader who doesn't know what is going on. I have my favourite artists, so do you, and so does Valve. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Not to mention Valve IS the system, they have all the say in what goes into Dota 2 and they have all the right to do whatever they want.
I think it bears repeating that nobody is mad at Anuxi. I've not read anything to that extent in the last few pages. Pretty sure we all appreciate everything she's done for us so far as well. This isn't about Anuxi or her work, she just happens to be the one Valve chose to try the latest set idea with.
Well in my vocabulary, favoritism in judging means corruption. Specially when the competition is open and the identity of those who join it, is not concealed.
P.S. nothing to do with anuxi. I (like many others) was inspired by her and started making items after watching her interview in ti3.
And yes you are right, Valve could say at least something, but maybe they are scared to admit they risked revenue from 11 sets just for this test...
I agree with you there, it sucks to see any agression toward her in any way over this matter.
I'm saying that to valve not to her!
Actually I think she was smart to realize what their taste is and stick to it.
Please don't cherry pick my post.
Thanks
i not really get the feather logo... can explain? reading this since i woke up like 9 hours ago.
But then... And this is me speculating... The idea of the chest is to do the following:
- Since the game went official and out of beta, start reintroducing workshop artists to the people. And I would indeed be the best option for this for a lot of reasons.
- With China entering the market, it would be a good idea to bring to light what an artist can achieve and inspire Chinese artists into tthe workshop model. Similar to how many here admitted that Anuxi inspired you. Me included.
- Experimenting a new business model. I believe Anuxi would have been a first pick for the experiment.
So yeah, there is so much we don't know and at this point, it can be anything...
Not implying anything, but I find it intriguing how some items rocket up so hard, Yi's last CM set literally had all items in the top of the top page in a blink.
I really can't figure how people get insta-kilovotes.
That logo was not offending anuxi at all. I do apologize that I didn't make it clear. The logo was pointing out that valve works with favoritism and if you want a higher chance of getting stuff into game you have to stop bringing new things on the table and just go with their favorite style!(And probably that won't work either at this point)
Are you for real?
Desolator/medallion of courage staff is a bit of fun on the idea that his ultimate does a huge amount of Armour reduction.
Valve often fast track items and sets that they really like.
This is in no way corruption. You have not been promised that your items will be accepted. This whole workshop thing is pretty much free pitching.
I imagine Yi gets lots of votes because they produce good quality work, high impact marketing and the community gets a lot of exposure to the work that they produce. You are making a pretty big accusation there.
Having less sets in game isn't corruption either, it is disappointing if they don't but it is not an obligation for Valve to implement ANY new content.
I agree that some more communication with Valve about what they plan to do with the workshop would be really great, especially for the full time workshoppers but I think you took it a little too far.
Desolator is still more used as a main item on a lot of other heroes. So still your argument on that is weak.
As for what it Reza saying is just the opposite of over praising really. I have seen a lot better quality work vs Yi stuff and they don't even get a fraction of the votes that Yi get. Hell, even dotacinema can't push for that kind of votes often. Yet Yi pulls consistent votes on whatever he produces. Questionable? I would say so. Oh and please spare the argument of better promotion, networking... Yada Yada. Pretty everyone here knows and assumes that when they question stuff related to workshopvotes.
True or not, it's probably a good idea to have some evidence before you go around making accusations.
I don't know Yi but I do know that their work is magnitudes better than mine so to me their vote counts seem fair.
If you are sitting around counting peoples votes, refreshing your own votes etc. then you probably would be better off modelling some more.
Yes I am
Maybe the reason that you think I'm going too far is because of the context. I'm not sating these only because of this chest.
A lot of annoying stuff have been happening in the workshop and we are all aware of it and everyone (except those who benefit from them) are pissed about it.
I just decided to say whatever I thought about workshop at once.
And please don't play that "good quality work" game on me. I'm not saying these things for myself. I began polygon modeling 4 months ago and I do this as a hobby. My concern is for fellows who work so good and so hard but don't get any attention.
The fact that Yi is not the only one who does good job but is the only one who manages to get +1k vote in one day makes it questionable my friend!
And you are focusing too much on this part. As I said! she is playing her cards correctly. good for her. Bad for others who don't have the same voters and won't get any exposure. and Bad for valve for bringing workshop to this point.
P.S. What about this guys?! did they also work very good?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=224471847
^ this
While this is awesome for me, and I'm guessing this is probably more for the Chinese launch than for the western audiences, it's feels terrible for the growth of the workshop as a whole.
There are a few things we've suggested to valve to help do more for the community like a Pro player set event to help link pro player deals with artists. A cool thing the community is doing is an AmA which was thankfully voted to be open for anyone to join. I try to help out new artists to break into the workshop, discussing with industry pro artists to have a go at the workshop and chiming in with workshop feedback.
So seeing something that can potentially destroy a lot of artists hopes on the workshop really saddens me
I don't blame any of you for your frustration. I was really surprised when I saw the update, I had no idea they were planning this at all.
I know valve does read polycount but emailing them this topic would also be a good idea.
Can't see an accusation there, he just finds it questionable - I too am intrigued on how that CM set got all five in the top page so quickly.
I was checking comments for a courier I published at the time, along with stats and other things to try to understand how popularity works on Steam, and it just got me puzzled, because it wasn't anywhere, it literally appeared in the top.
MAN! Thank you for this!
I don't think the best way to advocate someone elses interests is to enter into a discussion with such toxic language. There is a difference between being concerned for a community and accusing people of cheating and corruption.
I really hope more artists are represented in the workshop soon but I'm not ready to say that people are cheating or practicing 'corruption' behind the scenes with valve.
As for the votes thing, I'm pretty sure there is almost no difference between 500 and 5000 votes. Valve decide almost independent of vote count.
EDIT: Pleas excuse my misinterpretation. Your language read as accusatory to me considering the proximity to claims of corruption. I don't want to start a fight with anyone, I just think we can be a lot calmer about this topic, especially if we dont rely on the workshop for a living.
Not just any kind of sword, IT'S FOR SVEN. CAN'T YOU SEE THOSE 8K VOTES, IT MUST BE ADDED!!!!
I blamed/accused no one but valve; but it seems like you want to defend your early statement and you are not really reading what I write.
OK go ahead and keep defending yourself.
She is making sets for female heroes. I don't think this is too hard to comprehend.
I actually still believe they will release most of the Pro Gear sets once TI4 comes.
Sorry I type a little slow and missed most of the responses to my post so edited it.
I am not trying to defend anyone. I don't want to have any aggression or ill feeling between us I was just taken aback by your post, but clearly I read it in the wrong tone.
Please excuse my mistake.
It's just all about lack of communication. Again.
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF WORKSHOP EQUALITY!
Oh you sneaky bugger :P
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF WORKSHOP EQUALITY!
Anuxi right now...
Would be cool if you could comment on the reddit thread saying the same stuff you said on here.
>༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Stopped reading right there.
No hard feelings man!
I was angry {at valve} when I wrote the first post, I still am. Just wanted to clear that none of the artists are to be blamed. It's valve's responsibility for what's going on.