it has very much those super clumpy proportions, that U THINK do not fit the character.
but many many players and also i like it very much. on top of that there are alot of heroes with such "clumpy" items, just another example..
i may scale my super rushed drawing maybe a little to find a the most harmonic composition.
and ps: i am afraid of nobody likes super absolut talk.
Your execution isn't there at the moment. As I said, the general Idea/design concept isn't at fault or being questioned, I said it's not bad, but the execution is limiting the design.
I suggest refining the concepts honestly.
Secondly, I wouldn't use items that are in the store as a crutch, or reference. What may look great on one character would look absolutely ridiculous on another.
Badly designed items by Valve DO NOT JUSTIFY unfitting designs. I can't believe how often this has to be repeated. Valve makes missteps, too, they're not perfect. But trying to justify lazy/unfitting design by referencing some of the worst received items in the game does NOT help your case.
jo spudnik,
point1: that dp head is neither a badly designed item nor a mistake. its the most liked item ingame for the deathprophet head slot.
point2: also i do not think my design is anyhow unfitting or lazy. with just a little scaling here is the prove that this already looks rly nice ->
point3: after all u should never forget that the sound makes the music.
we are all here to create art and put in our heart and hard work.
critique is ofc allways welcome, as long as it doesnt sound like a flame or a wanabe-shitstorm.
this *here* is not twitchchat.
point1: that dp head is neither a badly designed item nor a mistake. its the most liked item ingame for the deathprophet head slot.
It's was the alpha design for DP that they discarded in favor of the current one. De facto, it is worse and was only reintroduced recently.
point2: as well as i am i do not think my design is anyhow unfitting or lazy. with just a little scaling this already looks rly nice ->
The 'little scaling' is what makes the difference that changes it from unfitting to acceptable. The fact that you realized that all it took was a 'little scaling' but didn't actually do it makes it seem like you were just lazy. Hence my reaction.
Also, the paragraph above is not solely directed at you, it's just a bad mentality to have going into this. Strive to be as good, as Dota's BEST designs, not as good as Dota's worst or mediocre designs.
The valve headpiece is an homage to her alpha design and is not a reflection of her current silhouette or aesthetic. Her current items are very light and almost vertical in their shape, as if the hair is being raised off her scalp.
Now let's address your concepts. The reason why the hairdo seem unfitting is because the rest of the set is very slim and elegant, however your concepts are very bulky and dont have much flow. The texture seems almost frizzy. Why frizzy? And if its not meant to be frizzy then what are you showing us?
They also have a huge deal of weight to them (they're all pointing down!) which doesn't fit with the 'weightlessness' that makes the other cosmetics work so well.
Think about your set. What are you trying to express? Can you draw any inspiration from past or present hairstyles to reflect that?
Establishing a visual theme by research and reworking your ideas is totally important. And so is the critique of your peers! Keep going because you're on the right track.
it has very much those super clumpy proportions, that U THINK do not fit the character.
but many many players and also i like it very much. on top of that there are alot of heroes with such "clumpy" items, just another example..
i may scale my super rushed drawing maybe a little to find a the most harmonic composition.
and ps: i am afraid of nobody likes super absolut talk.
Are you valve? No? Then you can't break the rules. Those ites were made to stand out in the luckless lockbox last year and as such have silhouettes that break the normal conventions we're used to seeing.
@arty jo mate, thanks for ur constructive critique. after all i ofc know all those items.
and as i have written on my very first post on this page before the discussion started: some sketches for possible heads. so it wasnt even a finished concept, it was just a
brainstorming that created that kind of shitstorm (what is rly laughable).
the reason why i did that drawings was because i wanted to find a head that was not
already there ingame. it happens to lots of sets that the slots look very equal to another
ingame item. from a traders view this is boring. so i was just trying arround to see
what is possible and what isnt. and this was just the start - on top of that i am rly not very
good in drawing a women´s hair. still thanks alot for ur time mate
@andrew u noob! ur a half day too late with that comment.
and ps: awesome panda destroying that high tech computer like a maniac!
i wonder why this looks so much like thiagos sylla to me
NEXT PROGRESS STEPP! another bunch of lazy and unfitting sketches (v7 and 8 were already posted before and v9 was already deleted)
i have written on my very first post on this page before the discussion started: some sketches for possible heads. so it wasnt even a finished concept, it was just a
brainstorming that created that kind of shitstorm (what is rly laughable).
If you post work, expect it to be critiqued. If you don't want it critiqued, don't post it.
Why would you post it? If you are trying get critique on form, color, and silhouette, spend the time to execute it to a degree where you feel comfortable enough/proud enough to exhibit it. If that's not the case don't show it. SIlhouette studies are a great option for you to show what is going on with the image without having the audience focus on things like material definition, density, and detail. By eliminating these fields from the equation, form, rhythm, composition, and negative space all come into play and it's great fun talking about how these new items affect the character, and what type of mood they can portray!
Using the term Sketch as opposed to concept is a flimsy shield. If you don't want to accept community critique on a sketch that potentially will turn into a concept, you are wasting valuable time on a sinking ship.
I'd happily give you crit on your studies 7-13, but I'm not sure that's what you want.
in the first line harry i dont want to recieve ur blabla. this is also the reason why i (and some somethers too) removed u from their steam friendlist: because u are rly totaly annoying.
and if u didnt understood it that way i will now say it here with very easy words:
i do not wish u to post ur annoying talk into my thread. u do neither read correct and try to turn the meaning sentences and words always into the direction that fits better to whatever ur intention is - and u join EVERY single talk, i think u must have a hard attention deficit disorder. from here on i will only get more lame if u provoke it.
@every other, ofc i allways welcome a construtive critique on everything no matter if it is a sketch, a finish concept or a finished item.
in the first line harry i dont want to recieve ur blabla. this is also the reason why i (and some somethers too) removed u from their steam friendlist: because u are rly totaly annoying.
and if u didnt understood it that way i will now say it here with very easy words:
i do not wish u to post ur annoying talk into my thread. u do neither read correct and try to turn the meaning sentences and words always into the direction that fits better to whatever ur intention is - and u join EVERY single talk, i think u must have a hard attention deficit disorder. from here on i will only get more lame if u provoke it.
@every other, ofc i allways welcome a construtive critique on everything no matter if it is a sketch, a finish concept or a finished item.
in the first line harry i dont want to recieve ur blabla. this is also the reason why i (and some somethers too) removed u from their steam friendlist: because u are rly totaly annoying.
and if u didnt understood it that way i will now say it here with very easy words:
i do not wish u to post ur annoying talk into my thread. u do neither read correct and try to turn the meaning sentences and words always into the direction that fits better to whatever ur intention is - and u join EVERY single talk, i think u must have a hard attention deficit disorder. from here on i will only get more lame if u provoke it.
@every other, ofc i allways welcome a construtive critique on everything no matter if it is a sketch, a finish concept or a finished item.
I think you are overreacting *shrug*
My understanding of the main purpose of these threads is to get criticism for work in progress. I think Heboltz's criticism was justified, if not exactly well formulated (I guess you interpreted it a lot more aggressive than it actually was).
That being said, I have to partially agree with him. Most of the original hairdos were pretty unfitting for my personal interpretation of DP's style, being way too bulky for a slim, otherwise rather elegant ghost.
well automedic, since we dont know each other so far: its nice to meet u.
if i remember right u are the particle guy doing that black pudge rot (i rly like that one.)
and also that juggernaut ward u did with prophet is fucking awesome and i rly loved it
so first of all thanks for the time u spend me
about my overacting, you are right. i am overreacting because it was now the 5th or 6th time in raw harry jumped into any discussion and annoyed me big time. if he would just had said "hey jo, i think ur sketches are littlebit too big - u may consider to just scale them down a bit." i would not have reacted like that, but i am just sick of it (and i am totaly done with him). anyways i would say we stop talking about him and this, since i think everything was said already and there is no need to extend this personal stuff.
right now i like 12 and 13, but im not done yet. i wana find something outstanding for the headslot, that was not there already there. and thats rly hard because i have to try alot arround, hear others, create new knowledge out of that and then draw more and repeat the cycle .. i will throw v13 in another conceptinggo now
just finished the texture for rubick set cloak but in the end i was so much disliking the whole design that i went back to the start and concepted a new one..
btw i just found an older ward concept that was anyhow never done and decided it to rework it a little. all versions are up for gap: general scarecrow 2.0
btw the rubick set submission is up! thanks @rocket,hayes and the horse strangler for that great collabo!
would be kind if u leave us a vote if u like our work :)
since my dropbox is currently cut off due too much traffic from the rubick set.. only some little news from the fairydragon tadpole ward project (vayne is sitting on the animation):
and another project in a VERY early stage of concept:
im still struggling a bit with the head at the moment
btw since some time tamarin and me work together on a sandking project. but for any reason we dont find a point.. we allways feel like *is this good enough? is it epic?* and now after struggling some weeks at this id like to post our WIP here and get some feedback on it:
I do not like the head piece, it kind of silhouette breaking too. Since his head always points to the back creating some flow.
The top left looks better as well as the one bottom right to it because it doesn't disrupt the head's flow and the basic silhouette shape. You probably should make some variations of those heads.
For the legs I suggest painting the tip of the legs (top) a lighter shade of brown gradating to the bottom. That way, you can see the gem more due to contrast. You should do it the same for the head because its looking kind of dark.
You should start numbering each part and labeling each section to make it easier for people to read your concept and give critiques on some parts. The concepts on the bottom right could be for the legs or arms at a glance so I had to look closely to see which part its for.
recylced one of the first sk concept stage ideas into a single item, liked the concept anyhow too much to just throw it into the trash bin.
@ghost thanks for ur feedback, i am reworking the head a little now. i took an older head shape and combined it with the last version into a new one (also adjusted the colors), the crown is still wip (gona try to concept it in the next days):
I just wanna point out youre using a lot of dark colours which get used for the underside of the body (the parts which arent supposed to draw attention) which sort of leaves the eye looking for some sort of highlight because nothing immediately grabs attention. I know its still wip but just something to consider perhaps
i was hoping to create the highlight with the crown actualy maybe i also have to adjust the colors a bit more but i think im not totaly off. those brown for example are colors from his upper side of body. and actualy if there would be shoulders and crown inside that picture i think u would not want more details.. lets see
a set concept for ember spirit. theme is an arabic ifrit (some kind of fire based djinn)
the blades of the swords may be totaly done only with some heavy fire particle effect.
I like the shapes you have going on in the shoulders, but I don't like the colors/materials there. The belt is awesome but the coattails could be refined a bit I feel. Hair, again, cool but not a fan of the material on the cloth. FOr the swords, I think the overall shape is too simple/real-life-like but I like the idea of the floating shards.
thx for the critiquerino, actualy the blades of the swords will be done with heavy fire particles.
the shape i did draw there is only a placeholder for that.
Replies
The general "idea" Isn't bad, but the execution is limiting the design at the moment.
it has very much those super clumpy proportions, that U THINK do not fit the character.
but many many players and also i like it very much. on top of that there are alot of heroes with such "clumpy" items, just another example..
i may scale my super rushed drawing maybe a little to find a the most harmonic composition.
and ps: i am afraid of nobody likes super absolut talk.
Your execution isn't there at the moment. As I said, the general Idea/design concept isn't at fault or being questioned, I said it's not bad, but the execution is limiting the design.
I suggest refining the concepts honestly.
Secondly, I wouldn't use items that are in the store as a crutch, or reference. What may look great on one character would look absolutely ridiculous on another.
point1: that dp head is neither a badly designed item nor a mistake. its the most liked item ingame for the deathprophet head slot.
point2: also i do not think my design is anyhow unfitting or lazy. with just a little scaling here is the prove that this already looks rly nice ->
point3: after all u should never forget that the sound makes the music.
we are all here to create art and put in our heart and hard work.
critique is ofc allways welcome, as long as it doesnt sound like a flame or a wanabe-shitstorm.
this *here* is not twitchchat.
It's was the alpha design for DP that they discarded in favor of the current one. De facto, it is worse and was only reintroduced recently.
The 'little scaling' is what makes the difference that changes it from unfitting to acceptable. The fact that you realized that all it took was a 'little scaling' but didn't actually do it makes it seem like you were just lazy. Hence my reaction.
Also, the paragraph above is not solely directed at you, it's just a bad mentality to have going into this. Strive to be as good, as Dota's BEST designs, not as good as Dota's worst or mediocre designs.
Now let's address your concepts. The reason why the hairdo seem unfitting is because the rest of the set is very slim and elegant, however your concepts are very bulky and dont have much flow. The texture seems almost frizzy. Why frizzy? And if its not meant to be frizzy then what are you showing us?
They also have a huge deal of weight to them (they're all pointing down!) which doesn't fit with the 'weightlessness' that makes the other cosmetics work so well.
Think about your set. What are you trying to express? Can you draw any inspiration from past or present hairstyles to reflect that?
Establishing a visual theme by research and reworking your ideas is totally important. And so is the critique of your peers! Keep going because you're on the right track.
Are you valve? No? Then you can't break the rules. Those ites were made to stand out in the luckless lockbox last year and as such have silhouettes that break the normal conventions we're used to seeing.
and as i have written on my very first post on this page before the discussion started:
some sketches for possible heads. so it wasnt even a finished concept, it was just a
brainstorming that created that kind of shitstorm (what is rly laughable).
the reason why i did that drawings was because i wanted to find a head that was not
already there ingame. it happens to lots of sets that the slots look very equal to another
ingame item. from a traders view this is boring. so i was just trying arround to see
what is possible and what isnt. and this was just the start - on top of that i am rly not very
good in drawing a women´s hair. still thanks alot for ur time mate
@andrew u noob! ur a half day too late with that comment.
and ps: awesome panda destroying that high tech computer like a maniac!
i wonder why this looks so much like thiagos sylla to me
NEXT PROGRESS STEPP! another bunch of lazy and unfitting sketches (v7 and 8 were already posted before and v9 was already deleted)
If you post work, expect it to be critiqued. If you don't want it critiqued, don't post it.
If you know the works is:
Why would you post it? If you are trying get critique on form, color, and silhouette, spend the time to execute it to a degree where you feel comfortable enough/proud enough to exhibit it. If that's not the case don't show it. SIlhouette studies are a great option for you to show what is going on with the image without having the audience focus on things like material definition, density, and detail. By eliminating these fields from the equation, form, rhythm, composition, and negative space all come into play and it's great fun talking about how these new items affect the character, and what type of mood they can portray!
Using the term Sketch as opposed to concept is a flimsy shield. If you don't want to accept community critique on a sketch that potentially will turn into a concept, you are wasting valuable time on a sinking ship.
I'd happily give you crit on your studies 7-13, but I'm not sure that's what you want.
and if u didnt understood it that way i will now say it here with very easy words:
i do not wish u to post ur annoying talk into my thread. u do neither read correct and try to turn the meaning sentences and words always into the direction that fits better to whatever ur intention is - and u join EVERY single talk, i think u must have a hard attention deficit disorder. from here on i will only get more lame if u provoke it.
@every other, ofc i allways welcome a construtive critique on everything no matter if it is a sketch, a finish concept or a finished item.
okay.
I think you are overreacting *shrug*
My understanding of the main purpose of these threads is to get criticism for work in progress. I think Heboltz's criticism was justified, if not exactly well formulated (I guess you interpreted it a lot more aggressive than it actually was).
That being said, I have to partially agree with him. Most of the original hairdos were pretty unfitting for my personal interpretation of DP's style, being way too bulky for a slim, otherwise rather elegant ghost.
I like v7 and v13 of the newer versions though.
if i remember right u are the particle guy doing that black pudge rot (i rly like that one.)
and also that juggernaut ward u did with prophet is fucking awesome and i rly loved it
so first of all thanks for the time u spend me
about my overacting, you are right. i am overreacting because it was now the 5th or 6th time in raw harry jumped into any discussion and annoyed me big time. if he would just had said "hey jo, i think ur sketches are littlebit too big - u may consider to just scale them down a bit." i would not have reacted like that, but i am just sick of it (and i am totaly done with him). anyways i would say we stop talking about him and this, since i think everything was said already and there is no need to extend this personal stuff.
right now i like 12 and 13, but im not done yet. i wana find something outstanding for the headslot, that was not there already there. and thats rly hard because i have to try alot arround, hear others, create new knowledge out of that and then draw more and repeat the cycle ..
greez
second is a collabo with ares:
and a new idea for the cloak (cause of the tough polylimit)
There will be lots of conflict with those cloaks
I think we got to the point where nobody cares about that anymore:
and finally after some downtime the old puckward project with andumy and vayne is also going on.
what do u think about the colorsheme?
Henrik
btw i just found an older ward concept that was anyhow never done and decided it to rework it a little. all versions are up for gap: general scarecrow 2.0
Its big, friendly, chompy maw hits the soft spot everybody (in the entire world) reserved for the cookie monster
Well played, sir.
Hope it makes it into the game!
here is the next step, was tweaking details and masks the last 18 hours nonstop..
would be kind if u leave us a vote if u like our work
and another project in a VERY early stage of concept:
im still struggling a bit with the head at the moment
thanks and enjoy!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=258023948
[ame="
btw since some time tamarin and me work together on a sandking project. but for any reason we dont find a point.. we allways feel like *is this good enough? is it epic?* and now after struggling some weeks at this id like to post our WIP here and get some feedback on it:
(gemcolor will be dark purple and dark green as styleswitchable)
The top left looks better as well as the one bottom right to it because it doesn't disrupt the head's flow and the basic silhouette shape. You probably should make some variations of those heads.
For the legs I suggest painting the tip of the legs (top) a lighter shade of brown gradating to the bottom. That way, you can see the gem more due to contrast. You should do it the same for the head because its looking kind of dark.
You should start numbering each part and labeling each section to make it easier for people to read your concept and give critiques on some parts. The concepts on the bottom right could be for the legs or arms at a glance so I had to look closely to see which part its for.
That's basically it good luck
@ghost thanks for ur feedback, i am reworking the head a little now. i took an older head shape and combined it with the last version into a new one (also adjusted the colors), the crown is still wip (gona try to concept it in the next days):
the blades of the swords may be totaly done only with some heavy fire particle effect.
the shape i did draw there is only a placeholder for that.