Getting better at male character

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Tits mod
Hey there guys,
since I started doing character, making male character was always much more of a trouble for me then doing female,
that's why I decided to start praticing them *logic i know *
So here ya go, its still very WIP at the moment but i am really looking forward to get some comment and critics from you guys so I can finally get better :)

dmZ0V.jpg
Thanks guys!

Replies

  • makecg
  • phixel
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    phixel polycounter lvl 5
    Anything in particular about modeling males that you want to focus on? Overall proportions? Musculature? Facial features? ...All of the above? :P

    Only crits I have at the moment are:

    -Adding some more definition to his elbows. The shape of his arm, from his wrist to his shoulder is too straight, maybe add a bit more muscle to his forearm.
    -His ears seem a bit large, and maybe are placed a bit low? I might be wrong due to the angle and distance I'm seeing it from...

    Off to a great start though, keep it up!
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hey!
    @phixel I am looking to work on all of the above :) Woman are getting easier for me but men are just really hard for me to do well.
    Will try to check out the arm tonight for sure.
    About the ear I might check it out, but I am working here with photo reference :)
    Thanks for the comment!
  • disanski
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    disanski polycounter lvl 8
    Hey Tits this is a very good start. I think you could try to indicate the bony structure of the face a bit more. It looks rather flat on the side and kind of soft overall. It is interesting how you find it difficult to sculpt male figures and for the guys here is the opposite ( well at least for me is) .
  • mr_ace
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    mr_ace polycounter lvl 8
    Hiya, some closer shotsa of the heads, and from different angles would be good.

    proportionally he looks good, i think there's something not quite right about his head, but it's hard to tell from that one shot.

    The cloth needs more form, I'm sure you're pretty early with it, but a t-shirt will have a lot of creasing and shape too it. The pants which i assume are jeans have too sharp creases, try and keep the creases rounder and larger, and flow down through the legs. Reference is key!

    good luck
  • Tobbo
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    Tobbo polycounter lvl 5
    His toes look funny to me. I know it's still WIP so maybe it's just place holder toes? :)
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    It is ''place holder'' feet, didnt work on them at all ;)
    Like a lot of people point out, its all very WIP, a lot of thing to soften up, to smooth, shirt is still very place holder etc.
    I am at work for now but if you guys want I will post some more views of the face and maybe some reference picture. I am using picture of Someone I know so I will ask the permission first.
    The reason why I am not showing the full body is because I was asked not to :).
    anyway thanks again all of you for your very nice critics
  • pjtorres
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    pjtorres polycounter lvl 8
    looks really nice so far.... keep going ... i'm watching :)
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Here ya go guys,
    First here is two reference picture I was allowed to post. Of course I have way more (and better one, with less distorsion for the face) but it can still give you guys and idea of what I am trying to achieve.
    HXIee.jpg
    go1Ou.jpg
    And here a closer look at the face,
    WAtbO.jpg
    working on it at the moment, might post more stuff later tonight :)
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    zf9Z5.jpg
    Not a lot of progress tonight :(
    still working on the fold, trying to make them more believable!
  • Felixenfeu
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    Felixenfeu polycounter lvl 6
    Hi marie-michelle,

    i can already see improvements over your older works, and i really like what you did with the pants, especially in the first picture, like how these were stylized, but i guess you wanna go for realism.

    Pay attention on your face anatomy, i don't see much of the bone structure in your sculpted face at the moment, but you reference shows a lot (Specialy on the forehead).

    Try to take a look at Ryan Kingsley's face anatomy workshop, really helped me to understanding what's going on in there. He has a free webinar too somewhere on vimeo, somewhat usefull imo.

    Keep going !
  • ysalex
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    ysalex greentooth
    Hi Tits it's looking great. I think felixenfeu is right about the anatomy and bones of the face. Hunt for some of the highlights on the skin to add in to your base. Really natural pose and modeling so far.

    gKVoN.jpg
  • Felixenfeu
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    Felixenfeu polycounter lvl 6
    You ain't far from truth. Mostly goes this way usually. Nothing precise, just simplified landmarks (Red = bones, blue is mostly muscles).

    c0s7X.jpg
  • phixel
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    phixel polycounter lvl 5
    I think you could maybe accentuate the brow a little more, perhaps sink the eyes a little deeper? The whole face might also be a little bit narrower in your sculpt as compared with your ref.... though that might just be the beard thats throwing me off... :) Having a straight on view of your sculpt might help to compare against the ref image you have.

    These would be pretty minor tweaks though, as you have the general shape and overall facial proportions pretty close.

    Bonne Chance!
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hey wow, thanks a lot to every single one of you for the very nice critics and comment, it is very appreciated and sure helps a lot!
    @felixenfeu (bonjour Matane!) I will try to find some of the video you are talking about from Ryan Kingsley tomorow at work. I'm pretty sure i aldready saw stuff from this guy but a reminder is always good!
    @ysalex thanks a lot, start working a little bit more on the face tonight but I find it very hard to reconize the face without the red beard, it's just not the same without hehe.
    @phixel, thanks a lot for the comment too, as you say its hard to tell about the exact size of the face with the beard on the picture, tho I have some one at home with a shorter one so I will check it out again for sure!

    Anyway no huge progress tonight since I went the see the hobbit hehe, arrived pretty late so not a long time left unfortunatly, still a little more screenshot for you guys, im trying to rework on the arm, they are bugging me...

    ekYFe.jpg
    H44ld.jpg
    dydWe.jpg
    Oh By the way, any great tips to do beard in zbrush? I have no clue
  • Stefan_Martens
    First of all, I took a quick look through your portfolio and I love your work!
    Oh By the way, any great tips to do beard in zbrush? I have no clue

    There are manyways to sculpt hair/beards depending on the effect/style you want to achieve. You could check out fibermesh, zbrush's 'hair and fur' system.

    http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/features/zbrush4r2b/fibermesh/

    If you're planning on sculpting the beard; you basicly have two choices. Either you sculpt it directly on the face or sculpt it as a separate subtool.

    The latter method is probably the easiest one though it's major problem is obvious seams:

    http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113226

    Blending the two subtools together isn't that hard, it just needs a little love and dedication.

    How you create the basemesh for the beard is entirely up to you, you could build a basemesh in your app of choice, or use zbrushes extract tools. I usually just use one of the zbrush primitives, block-out a quick shape and then use dynamesh to clean up the topology.

    As for brushes, I find the claybuildup brush very nice to get a layered hair effect. I've also downloaded a brush called the crease brush which I love and use for as much stuff as possible, including (facial)hair. You might have a couple of favorites yourself, I would suggest you try those out first as you probably know exactly how they feel/work.
  • createdbyi
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    createdbyi polycounter lvl 3
    First of all, I enjoy seeing your work... as always it is inspiring for me.

    I would suggest thinning the wrists in relation to the forearms and hands.

    With the hands, I would suggest curving the top of the hand. That would force the fingers to bend slightly inward in a more natural position. Also, to me, the thumb should be slightly more under the palm, following that curve. I hope my description makes sense.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hey there guys!
    small update tonight again!
    @stefan I'm pretty happy you like my portfolio, made my day :)
    thanks a lot for the beard suggestion, I am not a huge fan of fibermesh so I was more thinking about sculpting it. Like you can see I did a little bit of the second subtool technique for the (very few) amount of hair you see. Tho I am not sure if this technique will be the best for the beard since it is not THAT big, still trying stuff.
    @benjamin thanks a lot, always a pleasure to hear my work can inspire someone. I think you were really right about the thumb, I rotate it slightly under the palm, dont know if it's noticeable in the render tho. I worked a bit on the arms /wrist too.

    Anyway here ya go boyzzzz
    fHRjr.jpg
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 6
    He looks cool so far. Quite a believable character being based on an actual person! What are you going to do with his clothing? Keep him in a t-shirt? I think that hooded sweater or something similar would suit well.
    Felixenfeu wrote: »

    Try to take a look at Ryan Kingsley's face anatomy workshop

    Thanks for this by the way. Going to watch it later.
    http://vimeo.com/28949284
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hello there!
    To answer your question Fomori I was thinking of giving him a sweater like the one he has on the reference picture I posted earlier in this thread. Will eventually give him shoes (yay!) and a bag I think, will be starting on the sweater tonight, most likely :)
  • mr_ace
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    mr_ace polycounter lvl 8
    Hi Tits, I have some feedback for you, it mostly just boils down to this though: there's not enough creases! I drew over both your sculpt, your reference and some t-shirt reference off the web. You'll notice that your sculpt has much fewer red lines than the reference, and the areas highlighted in green are pretty much empty of any creasing at all. With these materials, especially with a t-shirt, this just isn't the case.

    Also, some of the creases on the trousers are too sharp, material like this doesn't behave like that, with sharp edges to creases, then flat plateaus on top. it has more of a flow to it and is more rounded.

    6sRYf.jpg

    Would you mind showing a close-up of the hat and tell me how you did the texture? A character I'm working on at the moment has a similar hat and I can't work out the best way to do the texture and yours looks good from here!

    Cheers
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hellooo there again,
    Thanks again for your really good and usefull input mr_ace (btw I really love your work). I will rework on the jeans to make them way soften, more believable and add more crease etc. stuff is still in a very WIP stage, I just like to pass from a thing to another never to get bored and to keep a more overall look at my character and not focusing in useless detail too quickly. The t-shirt might stay pretty blocky since it will be soon covered by a sweater so I didnt really put much attention to it.

    Here is a little tutorial for the hat texture, I will actually have to redo it like I explain a little bit later, but the technique is still good if you dont mess it up like I did :). Hope it helps and dont hesitate to ask if something is not clear.

    VeR6R.jpg

    Oh and By the way, I will most likely post a little update a little bit later, but If ever I dont have the time I just want to tell you guys I will not be able to post here until a little while. I'm actually spending my holiday vacation in france this year and so I will be away from computer until the third of january. So until then C&C are still welcome and i'll update the thread when I am back. So I wish all of you folks very nice holiday (or whatever), to enjoy and ... that's it!!
  • awaredesign
    Hi there, I followed the tutorial to try it out and it worked really good ;P.

    Not bad for the first try and was really easy to do, took about 10 mins and its going to help me solve the hair problem I was having.

    hat_zps411c4297.png

    Thanks for the tip :thumbup:
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    @awaredesign very happy it could help, it looks good :)

    Here just a little bit of fun with rendering,
    going back to the real shit tomorow with continuing the sculpting!
    ZG489.jpg
    TdtvM.jpg
  • duncan
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    duncan polycounter lvl 8
    Looking pretty good to me.

    I did a really shitty paintover.

    titspaintovercopy.jpg

    The only things I really changed were

    - Slightly wider head....(but not the eyes)
    - Chubbier cheeks, and masseter muscle
    - Pointer chin.
    - Pointer cranium.
    - sucked in ears.

    I hope that helpes

    Killer job so far, I am really keen to see where you go from here. :thumbup:
  • mazz423
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    mazz423 polycounter lvl 6
    Looking pretty good, although I have to say your cloth is looking fairly static and lifeless, I'd suggest taking a look at some more specific reference, and I'd highly recommend having a look through this sites stuff: http://www.ten24.info/index.php/gallery/

    It was a happy day when that link got sent round at work, I think natural looking cloth is something people tend to overlook, but I think it's just as important as accurate anatomy and such. Especially when 70% of the character is clothed.

    Obviously for certain things you should use your discretion, for instance having folds that cross across the knees may look good when the character is just standing there but look very unnatural when in motion.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    @Duncan Thanks a lot for the input, totally agree with your comment, especially about the cranium part, mine looks pretty flat! Working on it asap :)
    @mazz423 wow, this website you just linked is amazing, the clothing is just insane. Im having a bit of a hard time especially on the jeans part, I did way more woman and those wear their clothes way closer to the body. The look is totally different but i'm learning a lot wich is great.

    Sorry for the delay, I just came back from vacation, got a whole new zbrush license from christmas and just bought myself a brand new cintiq 22HD, had a lot of setup to do. I should be back on track with some new update very soon, thanks a lot to you guys :)
  • mr_ace
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    mr_ace polycounter lvl 8
    hey, thanks for the hat tutorial! that is not the way i would have guessed at all. I'm going to do some tests on this see what I can come up with!

    BTW assuming you're planning on giving him shoes, I would block in some place holders for them sooner rather than later so you can work your jeans around them, rather than having to move them later. It's a pretty small thing but hey, better than nothing
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 6
    Duncans paint over looks good. I think the flesh around his nostrils needs to be a bit thicker. Not so much the middle bit (septum?) but the nostrils themselves. There was something bothering me about the nose and I think it's that.

    Those renders in Keyshot? Looks like more and more people are discovering it. It's fun!
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    @Mr_Ace Glad it could helped! good call on the shoes, will do for sure.

    @Fomori totally agree with the nostril thing, i wouldn't have noticed, thanks!
    I tried Keyshot before but I didn't quite figured it out. I had those very noisy render, full of little black dot everywhere even tho it took a long while to render. Maybe I should give it a second chance. I made those render with Mike A. Nash Fake it package. The blue one in Vray, the second one in Mental ray. Doing a pretty sweet job imo
  • fatihG_
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    fatihG_ polycounter lvl 9
    There's something about the upper troso part that I cant quite put my finger on.. but it looks off.

    Like it looks too wide, but comparing to the reference images it looks ok.

    It kind of looks like a mix between a chubby/buff dude right now.
    If it was a buff guy I would expect some more definition in the shoulders.
    If its more a chubby guy, I would expect a belly.

    Maybe you could try pushing the chest in a bit and making it a little bit less wide?
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hey guys, sorry for the delay, As usual was pretty busy.
    Been reworking the pants a whole lot since i was never really satisfied with them. Been trying fews techniques and going them over and over again.
    So here you go, still not perfect, got a lot of polishing to do.
    I tried something for the beard too, not too sure about it, checking my options...
    e2lnL.jpg
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    quick update! :)
    e2lnL.jpg
    BeZZO.jpg
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 6
    Looking very nice with the hair added! Looks like he has slight moobs (man boobs). I would consider flattening that area a bit.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Fomori wrote: »
    Looks like he has slight moobs (man boobs). I would consider flattening that area a bit.
    What do you have against man boobs!!? ;) Going to check it out, my model would kill me if he could see that!
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hahaha Just realized my last update was not really and update, Just posted the exact same image from the day before by mistake.
    Still nobody noticed... Not bad :)
    Here's the right onewng6M.jpg
  • mr_ace
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    mr_ace polycounter lvl 8
    this is looking good, the thing that stands out to me as looking wrong at the moment is the way his torso tapers up. I did a paintover to show what I mean

    knYhr.gif
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hey Mr ace. Yah I know about the torso thing, If I could show you the picture of my model you would actually be able to see that he actually has that kind of very wide torso-shoulder. I wanted to model it because I found it very interesting and different.
    I will ask my model If i can send a picture of him in another shirt to make my point better :)
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Here is some more ref about the shoulder thing.
    The no shirt one would have helped a whole lot since you can really have a better look at the proportions but that would sign my debt penalty
    So here ya go4Vha6.jpg
  • oskarreftel
    Nice face and cap!

    Something I find weird though is the shape of the forearms connecting to his wrists. Also, his big toes need to get a lot bigger, I think.

    Nice work! :)


    [EDIT] Missed that you had posted a later version with long sleeves so never mind the forearms.. :P
  • SA_22
    still think the torso needs pulled in and shaped alil more... if u look at your reference his top gets really tight around those areas curves alil in then drops down... some tension folds would work around the bottom of his moobs to :D
  • Macattackk
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    Macattackk polycounter lvl 6
    I see what youre saying about the model and his pectorals but you are shaping them in a way that isnt reflecting them the way they are. Currently you have them puffy all around but they should have more mass at the bottom from gravity and wrap around to below the armpits. Also the sweater would not allow you to see them that much, theres going to be a lot of empty air space there, its not a form fitting outfit.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hey there guys,
    thanks for all the input about the pectoral area. I tried to make it a little less apparent. Still when I am looking at the naked reference I cannot help it, I don't believe I should do a lot of corrections on that area because it seems pretty damn close to me. Sorry if you guys think i'm being hard headed about this one hehe.
    Anyway no crazy big update, but I finally hide those horrible placeholder feet for you guys :)
    tvVk8Zf.jpg
  • rollin
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    rollin polycounter lvl 13
    hi, nice work!
    the proportions are a bit off, his knees look too low, the pants are low, that's ok if it should be that way but then the knees can't slide down too .. ;)
    But if you want to follow the refs then the folds which are suggesting the knees make them look too low and the trouser is really too low bc he doesn't wears them that way.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    looking good.

    my advice in future would be, if you're doing a "trying to get better" project; pick a reference that we can all actively see and help criticise you on.
  • butt_sahib
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    butt_sahib polycounter
    Looking sexy as always!

    That jeans looks pretty hot. Check this image out, its a reallife scan, but i really made me change the way i look at cloth in general.

    Not quite sold at the chest issue im afraid :p Its too smooth. The folds you had on his shirt were pretty solid and gave a really good impression of his manboobs (proud moobs-ter myself), but his hoddie isnt really conveying the prescence of anykind of form
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    @ almighty_gir Haha damn you dude that's going to cost me a lot of dishes work

    Photo Ref (NSFW ;))

    Btw those will be remove as soon as I am done with the high resolution sculpt.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    @Rollin Screenshot of the pants for you,
    w87rF9T.jpg
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter
    oh man, remove them already. i meant like.. on your next project, choose a subject that doesn't give a shit.

    i understand your boyfriends concerns, even if i disagree with them, and i respect his right to privacy.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    @almighty_gir, Don't worry dude, it's all fine ;), wouldn't have put them there without his full approval
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