WTF are you talking about
why can't both the 3d artist and 2d artist both have equal input into the concept? because just one of them is holding the pen?
It's called collaboration, not laziness. remember Mop and Tully's entry? HELLLOOOOO! I want to see MORE entries of that quality!
The need for an concept artist in this contest is laziness, do the 2d artist complain about having to come up with an idea and a concept? nope.
If they had to make a 3D entry based on their concept they may well complain. but who knows
Well after the 2nd Dom War I was planning on outsourcing everything to Massive Black and then putting my name on it. Under the definition of what a team was on Dom War 2 it would've been ok.
I mean seriously people this is a contest about dominating not getting a friend to pick up your slack cause you are too lazy to come up with an idea. I repeat a cool idea not a cool drawing. Your concept art rendering can suck in the 3D section as long as the idea and execution in 3D is awesome. It doesn't even have to be drawn remember the BAD ASS Walrus with the tank from Dom War 1?!?! This isn't who is the awesome 3D modeler contest this is who is the awesome 3D ARTIST. If you want to be an awesome 2D concept artist then go enter the 2D portion.
I reiterate what Bobo said this is about creativity and always has been.
Plus, who wants to share the spot light?!?
mUhAhAhaaaa!
B
p.s. apologies if i sound grumpy my commute to work was a pain in the ass today
To Reiterate Bobo, and Modeling Man's point, If I were a judge, and I saw two equally bad ass entries, then found that one was done by a team, and the other an individual, I would vote for the individual entry hands down.
Well if you cant team up noone should be able to give critz in the forum or pmessages about ideas and stuff because then its like they are not doing their own work... Im not serious about this but I have a point what if another forum member reminds you of fixing some error u did not see, yeh its minor but a what poit will it be considered cheating and unfair for the guy not getting help?
heh That's just silly
For the record, I'm not against people helping people with paintovers and suggestions. That makes these "WIP" style contest fun! The issue comes when someone is simply working off of someone else's concept.
Paintover thread would kick ass and I hope that someone starts one up again this year.
I vote 'no', simply because I think that designing is a huge part of the Dominance War; I've always found it to be more fun than the modeling and texturing. It's great to visit Polycount every day during the concepting phase and seeing a hundred people ask opinions on their concepts - half of which were magic gloves last year, but that's besides the point - before 90% of them fails the modeling stage.
That said, I do think paintovers are useful and important. Maybe you're overlooking something or not focusing on the right part of your concept - a 1337 paintover can give a ton of ideas. Working together here is very important. So having someone else provide their insight is good, but only after the original creator put his best effort into it. I think that would be good to get in the rules somewhere in some shape or form, because I thought people in the last wars were reluctant to do any radical paintovers because of the rules, which is a shame.
And if you're a poor concept artist and all out of ideas, just go with something demonic, robotic, or both. That kind of stuff always wins the Wars anyway, even though they're not the best concepts.
A separate team category could work, some are just too busy to be able to spend the time needed to produce the finished piece on their own, and we miss out on some kick ass stuff because of that.
For the record, I'm not against people helping people with paintovers and suggestions. That makes these "WIP" style contest fun! The issue comes when someone is simply working off of someone else's concept.
Paintover thread would kick ass and I hope that someone starts one up again this year.
- BoBo
Yeh i agree thats why these comps are fun
So what is so bad using someone elses concept if 2 team up? i know excellent 3D modelers who just cant concept up anything decent. The ones im talking about are not lazy they could spend weeks on trying to create a concept then what? they got no win material to start working with anyways except if they are really lucky and pull something off. :P
I mean ur gonna look at a entry and the modeler is not gonna take credit for the concept if someone else did it, the modeler is going to get credit for how he takes the concept and applies it to 3d and the final product. the concept artist has a equall oppurtunity to show off what he can imagine and his ideas and then get to see his idea turn into 3d.
So by allowing teams there will just be more entries, also its possible for some entries quality to rise.
So many are still saying yeh we cant have 2 man teams but we can have concept artist thread where some concept artist will paint over ur thumbnail and make a piece of art refining ur blob to a concept. I dont see the difference except the concept artist whom might have or not made most of the ideas not get credit for them and only a few people will know that.
So im saying this because thinking about the people. Some of u amazing people can make it all by ur self from scratch good for you. However, som cannot and I believe those should still be able to enter and working together with someone is not gonna make stuff so much easier (well that depends on the people ofcourse) teamwork, communication thats skill too!
If concept teamups aren't allowed then at least make the domwar 1 style concept threads an option. If there's no teamwork then there's basically no point in having this be forum based instead of just individual.
Marine I always thought about a team category as a possible solution. The problem I've found is that there usually aren't that many teams in the mix...so not only is the work less for each individual in the team the actual amount of competition is less as well. So the most probable thing would be the people that enter as a team would just wind up placing...doesn't feel very dominating to me.
B
A separate team category could work, some are just too busy to be able to spend the time needed to produce the finished piece on their own, and we miss out on some kick ass stuff because of that.
That's what I'm talking about.
There's no lack of talent here, I'm just not willing to devote that much time to a contest. I'm just one of those people that as soon as the work day is over, I don't touch 3d at all.
Although, I do find working with others to be fun and social, so that's why a teamup / team comp appeals to me.
I think Unearthly and Dom War can have a bastard child of a competition.
So what is so bad using someone elses concept if 2 team up? i know excellent 3D modelers who just cant concept up anything decent. The ones im talking about are not lazy they could spend weeks on trying to create a concept then what? they got no win material to start working with anyways except if they are really lucky and pull something off. :P
If you cant come up with a concept (idea) no matter how hard you try then you're not as good as someone that can. It's as simple than that, this is a contest to prove who's best, not a contest to prove how well everyone can hold hands.
Forum Critiques ARE the team side of this. The team is POLYCOUNT. You get crits and paintovers to improve your work. That's why we are battling as communities, the better community provides the best support and critique and thus will have the most top tier entries.
Critiques and paintovers are completely separate from supplying a FINISHED concept. To compare the two is ridiculous. Telling someone "hey that looks great, but the head is too big and maybe his shield should be shaped more like this" is radically different than to say "here is your drawing, now model this."
Most of the top entries have similar level of 3D skill, which at that point it becomes more about character design, and style over simply implementation.
The contest isn't just about pushing your skills as a 3D artist, but just pushing yourself as being a better all-round artist.
I like the idea of TEAMS being a separate category as well.
If you cant come up with a concept (idea) no matter how hard you try then you're not as good as someone that can. It's as simple than that, this is a contest to prove who's best, not a contest to prove how well everyone can hold hands.
Forum Critiques ARE the team side of this. The team is POLYCOUNT. You get crits and paintovers to improve your work. That's why we are battling as communities, the better community provides the best support and critique and thus will have the most top tier entries.
Critiques and paintovers are completely separate from supplying a FINISHED concept. To compare the two is ridiculous. Telling someone "hey that looks great, but the head is too big and maybe his shield should be shaped more like this" is radically different than to say "here is your drawing, now model this."
Ok this sounds good enough for me, I vote no. Yeh a seperate category for teams then.
I also had to say no. I agree that your concept doesn't need to be bad ass, because dialing that in can take time and slow you down tremendously when you have to also make an entire model in your free time, which I am sure for all of us, is a small amount. We should all know how to draw. I've seen awesome modelers that can't draw to save their life, but it is a skill that we should all work on and have. So no, no, no, and no. Plus, on a personal level, I think the concept sheets that have all the doodles with various ideas for hairstyles and weapons on them are the best. Displaying your ability to visually work out problems before they're problems.
Voted yes, i'd like to see teams return in some form, there's more chance of people finishing, and more interesting work to look at full stop. Gauss's concept thread in dw1 was one of the best things in all the wars, definitely helped to raise my game and it'd be nice to see something like that occur again without people getting penalised for taking part.
Guys, it's not a TEAM thing. Or rather, when I made this post it wasn't in that specific direction.
As I see it, you'd see a badass character done, its wires textures, blah blah blah and in its thread a sketch someone did of the 3D artists' idea. If it, the concept that is, were done to this top-tier AAA quality IMO it would have to be entered in the contest under the 2D section and judged accordingly.
It's not.. TEAM AWESOME 3D + CONCEPT! It's... Joe Artist who had a concept done for him. Think of gauss' contribution to some Polycounters for DWI back in the day. IMO that wasn't a team effort, Gauss was just helping out.
As much as Gauss' contributions in his paintover thread were awesome and his creativity seemed endless, it was just that. HIS creativity. Providing that level of paintover where it's 85%+ new content is really over the line if you want to consider the concept yours.
honestly, I'm cool either way as long as there are no obscure restrictions this time around - like the whole "only pre-existing shaders, no node based shaders"
AFAIK it was never explained why besides a "because we said so" explanation
honestly, I'm cool either way as long as there are no obscure restrictions this time around - like the whole "only pre-existing shaders, no node based shaders"
AFAIK it was never explained why besides a "because we said so" explanation
my impression of the situation was something like this.
its like they wanted to say "no shaders allowed this is about 3d models and textures" but later realised people had to use some shaders to get stuff into game engines so they said "ok just those shaders and nothing else"
so it was a wierd compromise to level the field for all the people that didnt expect shaders.
I should imagine this year will probably be much more open to current game shaders but this is just my speculation anyway.
I'm not sure it's fair to someone doing it solo who has to settle for some quick sketches and run with not much more then an idea. To compete in a contest against two people who have the whole time to polish up both. Like Josh pointed out, being part of a team will probably influence judging. You can tell a judge to not be impressed (or depressed heh) by the skill and work that goes into the concept and only evaluate the final 3D but it will have an impact, good or bad.
But I don't think it will be that big of a deal. After you factor in the risk/reward to it... You also have 2x the chance to fail being part of any team. If you feel like you need a partner, how are you going to feel if they drop out?
Also won't most of the concept artists be competing in the 2D contest? There's a bigger risk that they'll fail if they join up with a 3D artist, unless they know for sure they can see their concept through faithfully. If you have a really good idea, why share and risk losing it all or only getting half...
What i think about this, is that if you come with an idea not yours, you will be doing the 3d work of the real "artist", "designer".
For a competition like this, is better to show what we can do with our imagination, and not to show how good we are as a TOOL.
you tool?
C'mon guys, we should be like architects here, not as simple pawns following the concept of another guy. Make your art, and not the art from others, is all what i could say.
What i think about this, is that if you come with an idea not yours, you will be doing the 3d work of the real "artist", "designer".
For a competition like this, is better to show what we can do with our imagination, and not to show how good we are as a TOOL.
you tool?
C'mon guys, we should be like architects here, not as simple pawns following the concept of another guy. Make your art, and not the art from others, is all what i could say.
I heard second place was a toff about it, took it on the chin like a grownup, with only a slight brown trouser protest and a few days of uncontrollable weeping.
Heard first place swanned about and got some sort of half-baked job at some second rate studio though. Not that there is any bitterness or anything. Nope.
edit : doh thought adam was talking about dom war 1. ho hum
I would say yes and no. I know I am not the only one who has a hard time with concepting. I concede that I really should focus on gaining some fundamental knowledge of 2d workflow and techniques but as was said above, it tends to really cut into the time we have to complete our work. I am working hard on improving my sculpting skills just so I don't suck this year, that on its own is taking up almost all my free time. Yes, 2d skills would help my sculpting but on the same token its useless if I can't find my way around the app.
The no side would be that well, who would be willing to partner up with someone as weak as me? The best artists will pair up and us amatures would end up alone or paired up with other amatures. I know I stand no chance of winning this but I would at least like to represent for PC.
So, if someone was willing to do a cool concept for me then great, if not then I'd rather no one be allowed so at the very least the playing field will be more fair,
Its really a moot point though considering we have no say in it and I will enter regardless. With no preagnant wife to worry about this year hopefully I will actually finish this one
I know I am not the only one who has a hard time with concepting.
Concepting =/= 2D painting. Heck, you can do the entire DomWar without a concept at all if you don't need one or have no time. You're not being judged on your drawing skills ever and as long as it only serves for you to visualise before going into 3D, I don't think 2D mastery is even remotely necessary - anything more than a simple sketch is just for fun.
If you're just making something from a concept that was given to you, this is hardly any different from your daily job and shows technical skill rather than creativity.
I can see why Fred would not want to divide up the competition into seperate areas, as deviding the prizes and such would be a phenomenal pain. But I found it quite hard to fight against those that had serious skill in area of concept and 3d. Take the Biggun team, alone the concept might not have been as strong, and might have lost even with his skill, or Mop and Tully, as I am sure Mop would have done something great. But I think even he would say his concepting isnt as strong as Tully's, so maybe that piece would have placed lower. We can all say that the concept is just a concept, but personally I believe that the battle is won at the concept stage, if you have a skilled 3d guy to finish. If I had a good concept to work from I know that I could do a hell of alot better, than working from a weak deisgned concept. Just my thoughts, and really I think I am more concerned with the fact that it all comes down to the final image, where it should be a point system for all the areas that the work encompases.
i voted don't care. i'm not in it for prizes or competition.. For me it's about team spirit (polycount) and just making something thats better than all the other things I've made. Frankly I don't care about stacked odds, if I think I need to work harder to keep up, then all the better
personally I believe that the battle is won at the concept stage
+1
The concept, the idea, is the most important thing in a work, a 3d model, and for all.. is the start. We do all things from a concept, and it can be more pulished or less, but it's the most important thing, and if we fail at the beginning.. we can't compete with others who have the "easy work" (only be worried about 3d beacuse they have a great concept ¬¬).
There's a phrase that says: "Design sells". Someone can be very good at modelling, but if he fails with the design... he won't sell a shit, so he will lose.
If someone takes advantage of a great concept artist, the rest, if they don't manage to have the same creative skills.. i think it's not fair, but well.. life is not fair, isn't it?
2v1 is not fair. 1v1 is the best!
2 people do the work faster, and 1 do more work.. it's totally unfair. The concepting stage can be more than 1 week and it's time they save if they had ideas so clear before the competition. If the thematic is a crap, or if i see ppl joining teams or i lack of time... i won't participate for sure (i have too many better things to finish :S). Im european, so prizes are not the reason to participate in a competition for me. I like competitions because we effort ourselves to compete against others, but 2v1.. that's not a competition.
If you are a man, don't ask your buddy help with concepts/ideas. Enter "The Arena" alone, and show what you really have, push your limits and don't show your weakness LOL. Where's the competitive spirit? ¬¬
EDIT: for the 2d competition they do ilustrations, They can't submit a simple concept of a character...
I would say no as well.
I agree with many of other polycounters that stated that your entry in this contest should include your creativity and design, and not just your procedure and form.
Pretty straight forward, you either agree with that or dont, doesnt matter if its "tripple A" concept art work or not.
I would say no as well.
I agree with many of other polycounters that stated that your entry in this contest should include your creativity and design, and not just your procedure and form.
Pretty straight forward, you either agree with that or dont, doesnt matter if its "tripple A" concept art work or not.
Do not picture AAA concept artwork when you hear the word 'concept'.
HAHAHA! Adam, I feel your pain. It doesn't seem like people are grasping what you're asking at all.
What people seem to be forgetting is that there never has been a 2D section in the Dom War since the third one. Most of the 2D guys/girls never entered because of this and also why gauss and Ninjas stepped up to the plate to do some concepts to help TEAM Polycount achieve victory.
Wow, this thread brought up some interesting stuff. Since most people view the Dominance war as an opportunity to test their individual skills against the rest of the world it has lost alot of it's warspirit since the first two. The team feeling was lost the last war, i agree and i see it getting worse this year round. Some Awesome artist that just sign up at the first forum they find, don't care, and then win with two wip images in their thread. Yeah, not so great.
I think alot of artist won't take the route of modelling of someone else's concept anymore even if it would be possible this year. So maybe some other form of community involvement should be created to fire up that war spirit? I wouldn't know where to start though...
I voted yes, for a lot of the reasons kite mentioned. I will be concepting/designing my own entry, but I don't have any problems with others who want to tag with someone. Was it DW2 where someone teamed up with hawkprey and they didn't even place....? it does feel like its becoming more like some zBrushCentral figure comp, than a forum v forum event...
It has to be one way or another. look at the poll, its completely split, with a nice side order of don't give a shit.
WE are the team.. if the team spirit seems less then lets do something about it instead of nitpicking the rules. Constructive crits, encouragement, pantovers and generally just doing what we do best, pulling together for the one time a year event..
I'm hearin' a lot of defeatist souning talk here, how about we focus on gettin polycount back to the top where we belong?
I have a genius idea I know everyone will love, 100% 'yes' vote: What if we give you ~80 or so concepts that you interpret and create?
*ducks the tossed tomatoes*
bwhahahaHHahaha
For serious: It sucks some of you won't compete if you can't get help. And it sucks some of you wouldn't compete if others could get help. IMO, if the concepts were left out of the submission process and purely based on the final beauty renders & execution, it'd make for some stellar pieces. More-so than Dominance War 3. We, professionals or otherwise, work from concept on a daily basis. And we, that's all of us here at Polycount, are a community of people based on said industry. It only seems fitting that we borrow from those practices.
However, since the public consensus is that DW is more about the individual effort as opposed to what we do day in and day out, I can't help but feel including the allowance of third-party help, by way of a concept artist, would be unfair to those who do not get it.
My own selfish opinion:
It's just a shame that it is viewed as an individual effort. I can't help but feel the quality of submissions versus any other Dominance War/videogame art competition ever would be improved ten-fold. And really, that's what I love the most about the Dominance War; seeing some quality videogame art.
Replies
why can't both the 3d artist and 2d artist both have equal input into the concept? because just one of them is holding the pen?
It's called collaboration, not laziness. remember Mop and Tully's entry? HELLLOOOOO! I want to see MORE entries of that quality!
If they had to make a 3D entry based on their concept they may well complain. but who knows
I mean seriously people this is a contest about dominating not getting a friend to pick up your slack cause you are too lazy to come up with an idea. I repeat a cool idea not a cool drawing. Your concept art rendering can suck in the 3D section as long as the idea and execution in 3D is awesome. It doesn't even have to be drawn remember the BAD ASS Walrus with the tank from Dom War 1?!?! This isn't who is the awesome 3D modeler contest this is who is the awesome 3D ARTIST. If you want to be an awesome 2D concept artist then go enter the 2D portion.
I reiterate what Bobo said this is about creativity and always has been.
Plus, who wants to share the spot light?!?
mUhAhAhaaaa!
B
p.s. apologies if i sound grumpy my commute to work was a pain in the ass today
heh That's just silly
For the record, I'm not against people helping people with paintovers and suggestions. That makes these "WIP" style contest fun! The issue comes when someone is simply working off of someone else's concept.
Paintover thread would kick ass and I hope that someone starts one up again this year.
- BoBo
That said, I do think paintovers are useful and important. Maybe you're overlooking something or not focusing on the right part of your concept - a 1337 paintover can give a ton of ideas. Working together here is very important. So having someone else provide their insight is good, but only after the original creator put his best effort into it. I think that would be good to get in the rules somewhere in some shape or form, because I thought people in the last wars were reluctant to do any radical paintovers because of the rules, which is a shame.
And if you're a poor concept artist and all out of ideas, just go with something demonic, robotic, or both. That kind of stuff always wins the Wars anyway, even though they're not the best concepts.
Yeh i agree thats why these comps are fun
So what is so bad using someone elses concept if 2 team up? i know excellent 3D modelers who just cant concept up anything decent. The ones im talking about are not lazy they could spend weeks on trying to create a concept then what? they got no win material to start working with anyways except if they are really lucky and pull something off. :P
I mean ur gonna look at a entry and the modeler is not gonna take credit for the concept if someone else did it, the modeler is going to get credit for how he takes the concept and applies it to 3d and the final product. the concept artist has a equall oppurtunity to show off what he can imagine and his ideas and then get to see his idea turn into 3d.
So by allowing teams there will just be more entries, also its possible for some entries quality to rise.
So many are still saying yeh we cant have 2 man teams but we can have concept artist thread where some concept artist will paint over ur thumbnail and make a piece of art refining ur blob to a concept. I dont see the difference except the concept artist whom might have or not made most of the ideas not get credit for them and only a few people will know that.
So im saying this because thinking about the people. Some of u amazing people can make it all by ur self from scratch good for you. However, som cannot and I believe those should still be able to enter and working together with someone is not gonna make stuff so much easier (well that depends on the people ofcourse) teamwork, communication thats skill too!
B
That's what I'm talking about.
There's no lack of talent here, I'm just not willing to devote that much time to a contest. I'm just one of those people that as soon as the work day is over, I don't touch 3d at all.
Although, I do find working with others to be fun and social, so that's why a teamup / team comp appeals to me.
I think Unearthly and Dom War can have a bastard child of a competition.
If you cant come up with a concept (idea) no matter how hard you try then you're not as good as someone that can. It's as simple than that, this is a contest to prove who's best, not a contest to prove how well everyone can hold hands.
Forum Critiques ARE the team side of this. The team is POLYCOUNT. You get crits and paintovers to improve your work. That's why we are battling as communities, the better community provides the best support and critique and thus will have the most top tier entries.
Critiques and paintovers are completely separate from supplying a FINISHED concept. To compare the two is ridiculous. Telling someone "hey that looks great, but the head is too big and maybe his shield should be shaped more like this" is radically different than to say "here is your drawing, now model this."
Most of the top entries have similar level of 3D skill, which at that point it becomes more about character design, and style over simply implementation.
The contest isn't just about pushing your skills as a 3D artist, but just pushing yourself as being a better all-round artist.
I like the idea of TEAMS being a separate category as well.
Ok this sounds good enough for me, I vote no.
That's right.. a hissy fit!
As I see it, you'd see a badass character done, its wires textures, blah blah blah and in its thread a sketch someone did of the 3D artists' idea. If it, the concept that is, were done to this top-tier AAA quality IMO it would have to be entered in the contest under the 2D section and judged accordingly.
It's not.. TEAM AWESOME 3D + CONCEPT! It's... Joe Artist who had a concept done for him. Think of gauss' contribution to some Polycounters for DWI back in the day. IMO that wasn't a team effort, Gauss was just helping out.
AFAIK it was never explained why besides a "because we said so" explanation
my impression of the situation was something like this.
its like they wanted to say "no shaders allowed this is about 3d models and textures" but later realised people had to use some shaders to get stuff into game engines so they said "ok just those shaders and nothing else"
so it was a wierd compromise to level the field for all the people that didnt expect shaders.
I should imagine this year will probably be much more open to current game shaders but this is just my speculation anyway.
But I don't think it will be that big of a deal. After you factor in the risk/reward to it... You also have 2x the chance to fail being part of any team. If you feel like you need a partner, how are you going to feel if they drop out?
Also won't most of the concept artists be competing in the 2D contest? There's a bigger risk that they'll fail if they join up with a 3D artist, unless they know for sure they can see their concept through faithfully. If you have a really good idea, why share and risk losing it all or only getting half...
For a competition like this, is better to show what we can do with our imagination, and not to show how good we are as a TOOL.
you tool?
C'mon guys, we should be like architects here, not as simple pawns following the concept of another guy. Make your art, and not the art from others, is all what i could say.
Show me your horses!
When you put it like that, it sounds lame.
Also, from what I've read Bigun was exactly a case of TEAM: Awesome Concept Artist + Awesome 3D Modeler.
Ya cuz that never happens professionally..
:P
I heard second place was a toff about it, took it on the chin like a grownup, with only a slight brown trouser protest and a few days of uncontrollable weeping.
Heard first place swanned about and got some sort of half-baked job at some second rate studio though. Not that there is any bitterness or anything. Nope.
edit : doh thought adam was talking about dom war 1. ho hum
The no side would be that well, who would be willing to partner up with someone as weak as me? The best artists will pair up and us amatures would end up alone or paired up with other amatures. I know I stand no chance of winning this but I would at least like to represent for PC.
So, if someone was willing to do a cool concept for me then great, if not then I'd rather no one be allowed so at the very least the playing field will be more fair,
Its really a moot point though considering we have no say in it and I will enter regardless. With no preagnant wife to worry about this year hopefully I will actually finish this one
Good luck all, can't wait for the brief
Concepting =/= 2D painting. Heck, you can do the entire DomWar without a concept at all if you don't need one or have no time. You're not being judged on your drawing skills ever and as long as it only serves for you to visualise before going into 3D, I don't think 2D mastery is even remotely necessary - anything more than a simple sketch is just for fun.
If you're just making something from a concept that was given to you, this is hardly any different from your daily job and shows technical skill rather than creativity.
Not. Comparing. Two.
Guuuuh.. *bangs head*
Do not picture AAA concept artwork when you hear the word 'concept'.
Nah. It raises too many issues. This should be a 1 on 1 contest.
Spark
+1
The concept, the idea, is the most important thing in a work, a 3d model, and for all.. is the start. We do all things from a concept, and it can be more pulished or less, but it's the most important thing, and if we fail at the beginning.. we can't compete with others who have the "easy work" (only be worried about 3d beacuse they have a great concept ¬¬).
There's a phrase that says: "Design sells". Someone can be very good at modelling, but if he fails with the design... he won't sell a shit, so he will lose.
If someone takes advantage of a great concept artist, the rest, if they don't manage to have the same creative skills.. i think it's not fair, but well.. life is not fair, isn't it?
2v1 is not fair. 1v1 is the best!
2 people do the work faster, and 1 do more work.. it's totally unfair. The concepting stage can be more than 1 week and it's time they save if they had ideas so clear before the competition. If the thematic is a crap, or if i see ppl joining teams or i lack of time... i won't participate for sure (i have too many better things to finish :S). Im european, so prizes are not the reason to participate in a competition for me. I like competitions because we effort ourselves to compete against others, but 2v1.. that's not a competition.
If you are a man, don't ask your buddy help with concepts/ideas. Enter "The Arena" alone, and show what you really have, push your limits and don't show your weakness LOL. Where's the competitive spirit? ¬¬
EDIT: for the 2d competition they do ilustrations, They can't submit a simple concept of a character...
I agree with many of other polycounters that stated that your entry in this contest should include your creativity and design, and not just your procedure and form.
Pretty straight forward, you either agree with that or dont, doesnt matter if its "tripple A" concept art work or not.
I second all of that
What people seem to be forgetting is that there never has been a 2D section in the Dom War since the third one. Most of the 2D guys/girls never entered because of this and also why gauss and Ninjas stepped up to the plate to do some concepts to help TEAM Polycount achieve victory.
QFT. Next years Dominance War should just be an individual effort, there really is no need to pick a team anymore.
After reading this thread, I have officially lost all faith in the Dominance War. It no longer stands for what it used to.
I think alot of artist won't take the route of modelling of someone else's concept anymore even if it would be possible this year. So maybe some other form of community involvement should be created to fire up that war spirit? I wouldn't know where to start though...
WE are the team.. if the team spirit seems less then lets do something about it instead of nitpicking the rules. Constructive crits, encouragement, pantovers and generally just doing what we do best, pulling together for the one time a year event..
I'm hearin' a lot of defeatist souning talk here, how about we focus on gettin polycount back to the top where we belong?
*ducks the tossed tomatoes*
bwhahahaHHahaha
For serious: It sucks some of you won't compete if you can't get help. And it sucks some of you wouldn't compete if others could get help. IMO, if the concepts were left out of the submission process and purely based on the final beauty renders & execution, it'd make for some stellar pieces. More-so than Dominance War 3. We, professionals or otherwise, work from concept on a daily basis. And we, that's all of us here at Polycount, are a community of people based on said industry. It only seems fitting that we borrow from those practices.
However, since the public consensus is that DW is more about the individual effort as opposed to what we do day in and day out, I can't help but feel including the allowance of third-party help, by way of a concept artist, would be unfair to those who do not get it.
My own selfish opinion:
It's just a shame that it is viewed as an individual effort. I can't help but feel the quality of submissions versus any other Dominance War/videogame art competition ever would be improved ten-fold. And really, that's what I love the most about the Dominance War; seeing some quality videogame art.