Wow dude now thats s stretch, to complain about the pose of a render... Its A render, just one pose that shows off the form or something that the PR guys thought would help sell tickets. Its not like the entire film is of them in that pose, they do move and transform after all...
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Wow dude now thats s stretch, to complain about the pose of a render... Its A render, just one pose that shows off the form or something that the PR guys thought would help sell tickets. Its not like the entire film is of them in that pose, they do move and transform after all...
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I just agreed with someone. However the posing should tell a thing or two of the character.
YOu can get the hires renders of the movie straight from the blog further down... for those who haven't noticed, there's also a featurette movie. http://www.michaelbay.com/blog/newsblog.html
Personally i think Megatron and starscream look like poo, way too busy.
Now, i grew up with transformers too, i used to have a ton, and i have been buying a lot again in the past months.
Still you have to see that the boxy look that works in the comics doesn't work 'for real'.
Comics CHEAT, they bend metal, clip joints etc in order to make Bruticus be able to scratch his butt, which in reality, he could never do. Even if he had the joint freedom, there would be a lot of bulky metal parts keeping him from doing it, or even just from bending his elbow past 90 degrees.
The transformers need to be able to move and be flexible as any human, and that just doesn't work with the original designs. Take Soundwave from your picture above, he can't bend his legs vertically past 90 degrees, he could never scratch his foot and take a nail stuck in it.
While i'm sure they could tweak the joints a little, and modify the looks just enough to allow for better articulation, it simply wouldn't appeal to the younger generation that doesn't understant the faszination of transformers... and lets face it, the movie sure isn't cheap to make and you need it to appeal to a wider audience in order to get your money back.
As with Video games, if you're spending a huge budget on a game, you need to make it mainstream, because well, you're gonna have to sell it to as many people as possible. Fanboys aren't gonna cover it.
Holy shit the effects look insane, I'm sure it will be the most forced and contrived movie out this summer, but I'll still catch it just to see superbly rendered giant robots beating each other to scrap.
Speaking of Beast Wars, on my walk to work in the mornings, I pass a highschool downtown. Yesterday there was a group of 'thuggish' kids outside. As I walked by, one kid says "BEAST MODE!" and throws air punches at me. I laughed so hard.
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Speaking of Beast Wars, on my walk to work in the mornings, I pass a highschool downtown. Yesterday there was a group of 'thuggish' kids outside. As I walked by, one kid says "BEAST MODE!" and throws air punches at me. I laughed so hard.
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WTF? Ha ha. Thugs that act like cartoons haha. Man between those guys and the sofa humping guys in the other thread what are we going to do?
ooh, that trailer was pretty good. looks like some good robot on robot action interspersed with human love drama and summer blockbuster one liners. it will be #1 at the box office for the couple of weeks, raking in enough to give the go ahead for a sequel.... until Harry Potter comes out.
i know the plot will be pretty thin but still it cant be as bad as some of the more recent cartoon series, i cant remember which specifically but i think it was Armada that was pretty bad.
Im looking forward to seeing it.
I saw a different trailer while seeing Shrek the Third today. It made quite an impression in the theater. It was a lot like this new exclusive trailer, but with minor adjustments. I like how they integrated the old transforming sound, where it's very subtle.
Man.. Brut get a life man. This is fucking robots that turn into cars. You are taking this like Michael Bay invented a time machine soley to travel back in time to fuck your childhood in the rear.
It's a movie that will most likely be terrible. But it will not be terrible cause optimus has lips. It will be terrible cause Michael Bay is a terrible director.
Watching these trailers make me think that the movie looks awesome. I'll see it cause of visuals, but im sure after its over I'll consider it a waster of time. I hope i'm wrong.. but I never am.
ur wrong. it will have the best direction ever. bay will redefine his slow motion sweeping camera angles and jaw dropping explosions in ways that spielberg could only dream of doing.
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... it will not be terrible cause optimus has lips. It will be terrible cause Michael Bay is a terrible director.
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Actually, I think it will be terrible because it has robots that turn into cars. Sure, Michael Bay did not help the situation any, but look at the source material to begin with.
Personally I am looking forward to when they make the Chocobot Adventure Hour into a movie. That is gonna rawk your faces off!!!!
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Man.. Brut get a life man. This is fucking robots that turn into cars.
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Robots that turn into cars with a rich mythology that you know nothing about. If you did you wouldn't be talking shit. Personally I find the premise 10 times more involving and interesting than lord of the rings so it pisses me off when the guy directing it doesn't respect it half as much as I do.
New trailer looks much better but there are still a ton of very cool shit that has been omitted for no good reason at all.
a "rich mythology" that was devised for no other reason than to sell toys. The whole premise of cartoons like Transformers and GI Joe was to create 30 minute advertisements for toys so that little buggers like you would beg your mommy to buy them for you. You see, there were actually federal regulations forbidding this kind of crap up until sometime in the 1980s. It's a shame because I would have totally begged my mom to buy me some bitchin' Thundarr the Barbarian or Herculoid toys during the 1970s
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a "rich mythology" that was devised for no other reason than to sell toys. The whole premise of cartoons like Transformers and GI Joe was to create 30 minute advertisements for toys so that little buggers like you would beg your mommy to buy them for you. You see, there were actually federal regulations forbidding this kind of crap up until sometime in the 1980s. It's a shame because I would have totally begged my mom to buy me some bitchin' Thundarr the Barbarian or Herculoid toys during the 1970s
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"devised for no other reason than to sell toys"
yeah we're all aware of that
but id like to respond to that
Does it really need to be regarded so much differently from a rich mythology that was designed to sell 10 pieces of paper folded in half with 2 staples?
All stories come from an idea. This one just happens to come from an idea that came from a toy. Doesn't make it any less valid does it? They did hire a marvel writer to create the backstories of the characters and the mythology..there does seem to be a lot of love for the franchise, it has to be somewhat founded...
Every game you make is created for the sole purpose of generating money. Just as Transformers cartoon was created to generate interest in the toys. Doesn't make it any less valid a property in my opinion.
If it sucks it sucks if it doesn't it doesnt. You like Vampires, werewolves and zombies, I think they're overdone and boring as shit. Doesn't make it any less valid.
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i've watched all of gen 1 and collected gen 1 comics for over 100 issues. Transformers comics is what made me want to be an artist.
Don't think you have any idea what i know or don't know.
i'm just not an obsessive fanboy
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whether you know it or not, you come across as someone who lacks the respect needed for it to be a well told realistic live action film. you lack what Bay lacks. the vision to see it for something more than a toyline.
I like Transformers, I really do. Heck, I'm a regular on TF message boards, grew up on G1 cartoon and comics, stayed with it during the early 90s, and have been with it ever since, but I would never admit that TFs has ever had a rich mythology.
Maybe in the hands of fanfiction writers, but never in animated form, sans BW and BM. Though, 2 shows out of however many they've had doesn't say a lot to me.
It's funny that you say Bay can't see it as anything more than just a toyline, when he's been quoted as saying that he doesn't want to make just a toy movie. In the end, he'll never win. He's pissing off different sides of the fandom no matter what he does. He could have stayed true to the cartoons and I bet he still would have fans pissed off at him for something.
Its like making a sequel to Fallout. No matter what you do with it, you're doomed to be lambasted by the zealots.
From my perspective, Transformers in undeniably a silly, cheesy premise, but its fun. I think in trying to make the movie a more serious premise, Bay might have lost some of that fun, judging by the trailers.
The question is; do you have the imagination and childish nature necessary to immerse yourself in this stuff?
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I think the issue at hand is ... does hollywood?
I can't remember the last time one of these fantasy action event movies really worked. They're mostly checklist formulaic to the point of tedium,but also bogged down by hamfisted attempts at human stories and often wallowing in a piss filled pit of po-facedness and missplaced self importance. War of the Worlds springs foremost to mind... this from the man that brought us indiana jones.
And when they do try to inject some of that innocent charm, its often fluffed so badly you start wishing it'd all go edgy so you can get your brain back on track. Bored by "fun". Aargh. See most of stephen sommers
Holy shit some of you are totally into Transformers. I had no idea there was more than 1-2 shows and a movie. I remember the saucer ship in the volcano and some crap about dinosaur robots, which even when I was 9 or so struck me as retarded.
I just watched the trailers. Looks awesome. More Esploshuns plz! I for one really appreciate the tripe that Bay makes. I don't think he's made a movie that I haven't really enjoyed on some visceral level.
Its like a REALLY good grilled cheese sandwich. Cheesy...simple, totally satisfying if you aren't expecting steak. I'll be there in the 1st week no doubt. If it isn't god awful, I'll buy the DVD too.
One thing I am wondering though is this...
If Bumblebee starts out as an old beat up Camero, how+when does he become the new model? I clearly don't understand the whole self-redesign/proto-whatsit-form stuff.
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I like Transformers, I really do. Heck, I'm a regular on TF message boards, grew up on G1 cartoon and comics, stayed with it during the early 90s, and have been with it ever since, but I would never admit that TFs has ever had a rich mythology.
Maybe in the hands of fanfiction writers, but never in animated form, sans BW and BM. Though, 2 shows out of however many they've had doesn't say a lot to me.
It's funny that you say Bay can't see it as anything more than just a toyline, when he's been quoted as saying that he doesn't want to make just a toy movie.
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Transformers has at least 12 million years of backstory man. Characters that are 9 million years old. I challenge you to name any story that has anything like that.
Here's how I see it. The robot story of the 80s was robots coming back in time to help them win the war vs the humans. (Terminator)
The robot story of turn of the century was the robots have won, humans have lost (The Matrix)
The robot story for 2007 is robots who have become sentient and already taken over their planet, developed a civilization, evolved for millions of years and forgotten all about the organic creatures who brought them into existence. Bringing them full circle to the point where us humans are at. Living on a planet struggling to survive unaware of who they are, what is life and where they come from. These robots then find themselves on a foreign world(earth) protecting a seemingly insignificant lifeform(humans). Thats the transformers cartoon.
See the progression?
Yeah the cartoon shouldn't be regarded as much more than a storyboard. Like a comic book movie, fill in the blanks and make it work.
At work i've been given household name characters to design and create in 3D before and I was always conscious of what might piss fans of the property off as was my directors.... I just think Bay should have done more of that.
I realize a lot of people just consider Transformers cheezy but actually most of the fans don't regard it that way. And for that reason neither should the filmmakers of the movie. Being cheezy isn't the appeal of the Transformers. Infact fans regard the whole story and property as pretty... awesome. Look at this picture and tell me you think it was drawn by someone who thinks Transformers are cheezy:
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It's funny to see how some of you discuss TRANSFORMERS as if it should be some heavy-handed Shakespearean drama.
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If you think any of this is bad, you should see the boards I hang out at. Some of them were trying to make an argument on how TFs had a larger impact on society than Star Wars.
I mean, come on... I'm a fan, but I'm also a realist. I can admit when something I like is generally cheesy.
which leads me to this:
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Transformers has at least 12 million years of backstory man. Characters that are 9 million years old. I challenge you to name any story that has anything like that.
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Just because a story has 12 million years of potential story doesn't mean it's good / rich. Especially when almost none of it has been explored within canon. How can one properly judge how rich the mythology is when it's never been written?
Also, just look as close as Marvel comics. They have stories and characters that span those amount of years. Hell, Galactus was from a race of beings that were here before the 'big bang'. That right there easily puts the Marvel Universe at being older than TFs. It's not difficult to put rediculous numbers on things. That doesn't make the mythology any better in my opinion.
I forgot another fiction I really enjoyed, War Within. That was my favorite so far, and yes, that was within canon to G1. It showed me the potential of G1 fiction.
I honestly think there's lots of potential with the TFs mythology, but aside from a couple instances, it's never been fully explored, and I'm not about to go and read some fanfiction writer's Mary-Sue story just to fill that out.
In the end, I enjoy TFs for what they are, great toys and ideas. The last 8 years of fiction have done little for me. I enjoy it when people take serious approaches to the series or try something different.
The movie is not G1, it's a total reboot. It is in itself exactly what TFs are all about, changing to adapt to it's suroundings, just as every reboot has done in the past. They try and make the best fiction for the target audience intended. You can't blame them for doing their job. If the movie flops, then it will pass us by and become just another version of the story just as many other fictions have become. If it succeeds, then we'll get a couple more chapters, easy as that.
Excellent post, Jesse. TF has more right to be ever-changing than any other franchise I can think of. Really, the idea of a 2007 movie filled with 1984 vehicles would look pretty silly anyway. Imagine how weird Soundwave would appear - I haven't seen a tape deck in nearly ten years, not much of a disguise
If you think any of this is bad, you should see the boards I hang out at. Some of them were trying to make an argument on how TFs had a larger impact on society than Star Wars.
I mean, come on... I'm a fan, but I'm also a realist. I can admit when something I like is generally cheesy.
which leads me to this:
The movie is not G1, it's a total reboot. It is in itself exactly what TFs are all about, changing to adapt to it's suroundings, just as every reboot has done in the past. They try and make the best fiction for the target audience intended. You can't blame them for doing their job. If the movie flops, then it will pass us by and become just another version of the story just as many other fictions have become. If it succeeds, then we'll get a couple more chapters, easy as that.
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Thing is, it will succeed, no matter what, wanna bet? mostly cause of the name Transformers attached to it and what that implies. And that means this reboot will erase the possibility of a true G1esque story being told for a long time. Same thing thats happened to Godzilla fans. All the hate you're seeing is the result of their no NEEDING a reboot.
Transformers hasn't had as big of an impact as Star Wars culturally but I think the point is, with the uniqueness of the story and characters, if represented properly, people really believe it could. Its just got a lot more potential for a bigger story than Star Wars.....
lol its some random robots that transform into cars to make money, its like action man or voltron or that crap.i will watch the movie thou i like going to the cinema.
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Its just got a lot more potential for a bigger story than Star Wars.....
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really? Star Wars has 3 movies, 2 spin off movies, 3 spin off cartoons, 1 upcoming cgi animated series, 1 upcoming live action series, hundereds of comics (dealing in such things as the Knights of the Old Republic era 4,000 years before A New Hope, the whole of the Clone Wars, StarWars Tales where authors could write any type of story they wanted, and the Legacy series detailing 130+ years after ANH), dozens of video games (including Shadows of the Empire and the upcoming Force Unleashed multimedia events), nearly 100 novels, and atleast 3 tabletop rpgs with dozens of rule books fleshing out the galaxy (the d6 WestEnd Games RPG was the official source for new canon), and almost every background character from the movies gets their own back story. oh and don't forget the Incredible Cross-sections books, the Visual Dictionarys, A field guide to the wild life of StarWars, a Galactic Phrase book and travel guide, and Mandolorian (Mando'a) has been turned into a functioning language.
all this creates a single (mostly) cohesive universe instead of restarting the series when there's a new toy line in production.
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All the hate you're seeing is the result of their no NEEDING a reboot.
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See the thing is... reboots WILL happen no matter what. They've been rebooting the G1 story far before this movie came around.
RiD was a reboot
BW Neo was a reboot
Armada was a reboot
Super Link was a reboot
Cybertron was a reboot
IDW comics are a reboot
BW was initially a reboot
Hearts of Steel is a reboot
GIJoe / TF (WW2) was a reboot
TF / GIJoe was a reboot
I'm sure I'm leaving more out, but the bottom line is that everytime Hasbro / TakaraTomy wants a new toyline out, they reboot the fiction.
The same goes with the movie.
What's to say that G1 can't get a proper movie treatment later down the road? Batman fans had to put up with the Joel Schumacher movies, only to get their proper 'Batman Begins' story 8 years later.
The mentality of 'Bay will kil TFs because this is our only shot' is extremely short sighted.
Just be patiant. If TFs has as much potential as you believe, then you should be ok with them wetting their feet with this movie. Afterall, it's all for the greater good. If the movie profits, Hasbro/TakaraTomy profits, then we get better toys down the line.
The better they do, the more free they are to service fans with toys such as Classics or Titaniums, which are nothing more than fanwanks.
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Its just got a lot more potential for a bigger story than Star Wars.....
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really? Star Wars has 3 movies, 2 spin off movies, 3 spin off cartoons, 1 upcoming cgi animated series, 1 upcoming live action series, hundereds of comics (dealing in such things as the Knights of the Old Republic era 4,000 years before A New Hope, the whole of the Clone Wars, StarWars Tales where authors could write any type of story they wanted, and the Legacy series detailing 130+ years after ANH), dozens of video games (including Shadows of the Empire and the upcoming Force Unleashed multimedia events), nearly 100 novels, and atleast 3 tabletop rpgs with dozens of rule books fleshing out the galaxy (the d6 WestEnd Games RPG was the official source for new canon), and almost every background character from the movies gets their own back story. oh and don't forget the Incredible Cross-sections books, the Visual Dictionarys, A field guide to the wild life of StarWars, a Galactic Phrase book and travel guide, and Mandolorian (Mando'a) has been turned into a functioning language.
all this creates a single (mostly) cohesive universe instead of restarting the series when there's a new toy line in production.
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I did just say potential, I meant more in the girth of the universe and the length of time in the story. Its prolly like 20 million years, characters that have been alive over 9 million years. Also, Unicron and Primus witnessed the birth of the universe from another dimension and Primus became the protector of the UNIVERSE. Thats taking things to another level.... Star Wars is contained in a single galaxy. But you may be right that Star Wars is more fleshed out than Transformers. I'm talking potential.
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All the hate you're seeing is the result of their no NEEDING a reboot.
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See the thing is... reboots WILL happen no matter what. They've been rebooting the G1 story far before this movie came around.
RiD was a reboot
BW Neo was a reboot
Armada was a reboot
Super Link was a reboot
Cybertron was a reboot
IDW comics are a reboot
BW was initially a reboot
Hearts of Steel is a reboot
GIJoe / TF (WW2) was a reboot
TF / GIJoe was a reboot
I'm sure I'm leaving more out, but the bottom line is that everytime Hasbro / TakaraTomy wants a new toyline out, they reboot the fiction.
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I know Transformers has always been changing and rebooted but the MAJORITY of people do not pay attention to those reboots. Majority of people remember the first one.... The filmmakers knew this enough to promote the movie as being based off the toyline and cartoons from the EIGHTIES! Why not follow through with making the movie. Dont explain why I know their reasons I simply disagree.
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The mentality of 'Bay will kil TFs because this is our only shot' is extremely short sighted.
Just be patiant. If TFs has as much potential as you believe, then you should be ok with them wetting their feet with this movie. Afterall, it's all for the greater good. If the movie profits, Hasbro/TakaraTomy profits, then we get better toys down the line.
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I appreciate that and I know it will be told right one day. I just as you say am...IMPATIENT. And this just pushes it back further.
I came up with a story about an alien who is 70 trillion years old, who holds TWO UNIVERSES in his scrotum. You can guess the true origin of the big bang.
I think you'll find he has even more potential than TF AND Star Wars combined!
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You really want me to explain to you the origins of Optimus Prime?
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Wow, this thread just went straight into Nerd Slap Fight territory. I've got to go eat some red meat and fuck my girlfriend before my testosterone levels start dropping...
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Yeah man, I actually got it off the colorist at TransformersCon a couple weeks ago. Matt Moyner of http://www.lilformers.com/ , it was the alternate cover for a Dreamwave comic that was never released....
But i'm actually more of a unified theorist when it comes to quints / unicron and moreso a quint fan. I think for a live action film a unified theory could somehow tie both lineages in while making both entities equally as powerful as they were portrayed in the toons / comics.
But i'm actually more of a unified theorist when it comes to quints / unicron and moreso a quint fan. I think for a live action film a unified theory could somehow tie both lineages in while making both entities equally as powerful as they were portrayed in the toons / comics.
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Brut please stop. With the amount of transformers I have in my apartment and at the office I really don't want to ever be lumped in with someone who uses the phrase "I am a unified [unicron/quintesson] theorist." No. No. No. Scientists, with SCIENCE, can call themselves [whatever] theorists. People talking about THINGS THAT MATTER, can be [THINGS THAT MATTER] theorists. You are talking about ROBOTS that TRANSFORM into STUFF. Despite my love for all things Transforming, for the original comics, the new comics, the original show and movie, some of the newer shows (well ok just Beast Wars because everything else is fucking trash) the toys, etc, I realize it's just a neat concept.
Transforming Robots is a cool concept and you can do a lot of interesting storytelling with that. The "Transformers Mythology" is not some rich and wonderful fount of storytelling to which all other stories pale in comparison.
It's mostly shit.
There will never be a Citizen Prime with Rosebud the cybersled that exhibits a mastery of the cinema. The "Transformers Mythology" is mostly bored comic book writers having fun with Transforming Robots.
Have you ever read a real book? The arguments you're making seem to imply you are not someone who has exposure to actual literature. While I enjoy plenty of trashy reading myself, including a number of comic books, including a number of Transformer comic books, your diehard belief that Transformers is such a rich and powerful setting is a little frightening.
I'm super excited about the movie. My only problem is that starscream has a very gorilla stature about him. But! I will say it must work for him, because that fuck is nimble as shit according to the trailer. which got me really pumped. That and Megatron being ridiculously huge and curb stomping jazz.
I only have a few toys, but I'm a huge fan of the comics/show. I have all the graphic novels that have been released so far, in the original prints and trade form. my favorite 2 probably being Heart of Steel and War Within. I loved the prequal novel.
Replies
Wow dude now thats s stretch, to complain about the pose of a render... Its A render, just one pose that shows off the form or something that the PR guys thought would help sell tickets. Its not like the entire film is of them in that pose, they do move and transform after all...
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I just agreed with someone. However the posing should tell a thing or two of the character.
YOu can get the hires renders of the movie straight from the blog further down... for those who haven't noticed, there's also a featurette movie.
http://www.michaelbay.com/blog/newsblog.html
Personally i think Megatron and starscream look like poo, way too busy.
Now, i grew up with transformers too, i used to have a ton, and i have been buying a lot again in the past months.
Still you have to see that the boxy look that works in the comics doesn't work 'for real'.
Comics CHEAT, they bend metal, clip joints etc in order to make Bruticus be able to scratch his butt, which in reality, he could never do. Even if he had the joint freedom, there would be a lot of bulky metal parts keeping him from doing it, or even just from bending his elbow past 90 degrees.
The transformers need to be able to move and be flexible as any human, and that just doesn't work with the original designs. Take Soundwave from your picture above, he can't bend his legs vertically past 90 degrees, he could never scratch his foot and take a nail stuck in it.
While i'm sure they could tweak the joints a little, and modify the looks just enough to allow for better articulation, it simply wouldn't appeal to the younger generation that doesn't understant the faszination of transformers... and lets face it, the movie sure isn't cheap to make and you need it to appeal to a wider audience in order to get your money back.
As with Video games, if you're spending a huge budget on a game, you need to make it mainstream, because well, you're gonna have to sell it to as many people as possible. Fanboys aren't gonna cover it.
final trailer out. (exclusive trailer)
Holy shit the effects look insane, I'm sure it will be the most forced and contrived movie out this summer, but I'll still catch it just to see superbly rendered giant robots beating each other to scrap.
DH_ That new trailer was HAWT. I don't care what all you haters are saying this movie looks hot.
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Haters agree, it looks great but it could have been better... thats all.
Speaking of Beast Wars, on my walk to work in the mornings, I pass a highschool downtown. Yesterday there was a group of 'thuggish' kids outside. As I walked by, one kid says "BEAST MODE!" and throws air punches at me. I laughed so hard.
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WTF? Ha ha. Thugs that act like cartoons haha. Man between those guys and the sofa humping guys in the other thread what are we going to do?
i know the plot will be pretty thin but still it cant be as bad as some of the more recent cartoon series, i cant remember which specifically but i think it was Armada that was pretty bad.
Im looking forward to seeing it.
http://www.cybph.com/downloads/tftrailer3.mov
(not sure if it's been posted, too lazy to check)
international trailer:
http://www.cybph.com/downloads/tftrailer3.mov
(not sure if it's been posted, too lazy to check)
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looks like yahoo's 'exclusive' trailer isnt so exclusive now
It's a movie that will most likely be terrible. But it will not be terrible cause optimus has lips. It will be terrible cause Michael Bay is a terrible director.
Watching these trailers make me think that the movie looks awesome. I'll see it cause of visuals, but im sure after its over I'll consider it a waster of time. I hope i'm wrong.. but I never am.
Check out DRsmoov's 2 other videos. sos wheeljack, and shockwaves delema
best shit ever.
... it will not be terrible cause optimus has lips. It will be terrible cause Michael Bay is a terrible director.
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Actually, I think it will be terrible because it has robots that turn into cars. Sure, Michael Bay did not help the situation any, but look at the source material to begin with.
Personally I am looking forward to when they make the Chocobot Adventure Hour into a movie. That is gonna rawk your faces off!!!!
Man.. Brut get a life man. This is fucking robots that turn into cars.
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Robots that turn into cars with a rich mythology that you know nothing about. If you did you wouldn't be talking shit. Personally I find the premise 10 times more involving and interesting than lord of the rings so it pisses me off when the guy directing it doesn't respect it half as much as I do.
New trailer looks much better but there are still a ton of very cool shit that has been omitted for no good reason at all.
Don't think you have any idea what i know or don't know.
i'm just not an obsessive fanboy
a "rich mythology" that was devised for no other reason than to sell toys. The whole premise of cartoons like Transformers and GI Joe was to create 30 minute advertisements for toys so that little buggers like you would beg your mommy to buy them for you. You see, there were actually federal regulations forbidding this kind of crap up until sometime in the 1980s. It's a shame because I would have totally begged my mom to buy me some bitchin' Thundarr the Barbarian or Herculoid toys during the 1970s
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"devised for no other reason than to sell toys"
yeah we're all aware of that
but id like to respond to that
Does it really need to be regarded so much differently from a rich mythology that was designed to sell 10 pieces of paper folded in half with 2 staples?
All stories come from an idea. This one just happens to come from an idea that came from a toy. Doesn't make it any less valid does it? They did hire a marvel writer to create the backstories of the characters and the mythology..there does seem to be a lot of love for the franchise, it has to be somewhat founded...
Every game you make is created for the sole purpose of generating money. Just as Transformers cartoon was created to generate interest in the toys. Doesn't make it any less valid a property in my opinion.
If it sucks it sucks if it doesn't it doesnt. You like Vampires, werewolves and zombies, I think they're overdone and boring as shit. Doesn't make it any less valid.
i've watched all of gen 1 and collected gen 1 comics for over 100 issues. Transformers comics is what made me want to be an artist.
Don't think you have any idea what i know or don't know.
i'm just not an obsessive fanboy
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whether you know it or not, you come across as someone who lacks the respect needed for it to be a well told realistic live action film. you lack what Bay lacks. the vision to see it for something more than a toyline.
Maybe in the hands of fanfiction writers, but never in animated form, sans BW and BM. Though, 2 shows out of however many they've had doesn't say a lot to me.
It's funny that you say Bay can't see it as anything more than just a toyline, when he's been quoted as saying that he doesn't want to make just a toy movie. In the end, he'll never win. He's pissing off different sides of the fandom no matter what he does. He could have stayed true to the cartoons and I bet he still would have fans pissed off at him for something.
From my perspective, Transformers in undeniably a silly, cheesy premise, but its fun. I think in trying to make the movie a more serious premise, Bay might have lost some of that fun, judging by the trailers.
We shall see.
The question is; do you have the imagination and childish nature necessary to immerse yourself in this stuff?
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I think the issue at hand is ... does hollywood?
I can't remember the last time one of these fantasy action event movies really worked. They're mostly checklist formulaic to the point of tedium,but also bogged down by hamfisted attempts at human stories and often wallowing in a piss filled pit of po-facedness and missplaced self importance. War of the Worlds springs foremost to mind... this from the man that brought us indiana jones.
And when they do try to inject some of that innocent charm, its often fluffed so badly you start wishing it'd all go edgy so you can get your brain back on track. Bored by "fun". Aargh. See most of stephen sommers
Eeeeh, this were all fields in my day ...
I just watched the trailers. Looks awesome. More Esploshuns plz! I for one really appreciate the tripe that Bay makes. I don't think he's made a movie that I haven't really enjoyed on some visceral level.
Its like a REALLY good grilled cheese sandwich. Cheesy...simple, totally satisfying if you aren't expecting steak. I'll be there in the 1st week no doubt. If it isn't god awful, I'll buy the DVD too.
One thing I am wondering though is this...
If Bumblebee starts out as an old beat up Camero, how+when does he become the new model? I clearly don't understand the whole self-redesign/proto-whatsit-form stuff.
I like Transformers, I really do. Heck, I'm a regular on TF message boards, grew up on G1 cartoon and comics, stayed with it during the early 90s, and have been with it ever since, but I would never admit that TFs has ever had a rich mythology.
Maybe in the hands of fanfiction writers, but never in animated form, sans BW and BM. Though, 2 shows out of however many they've had doesn't say a lot to me.
It's funny that you say Bay can't see it as anything more than just a toyline, when he's been quoted as saying that he doesn't want to make just a toy movie.
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Transformers has at least 12 million years of backstory man. Characters that are 9 million years old. I challenge you to name any story that has anything like that.
Here's how I see it. The robot story of the 80s was robots coming back in time to help them win the war vs the humans. (Terminator)
The robot story of turn of the century was the robots have won, humans have lost (The Matrix)
The robot story for 2007 is robots who have become sentient and already taken over their planet, developed a civilization, evolved for millions of years and forgotten all about the organic creatures who brought them into existence. Bringing them full circle to the point where us humans are at. Living on a planet struggling to survive unaware of who they are, what is life and where they come from. These robots then find themselves on a foreign world(earth) protecting a seemingly insignificant lifeform(humans). Thats the transformers cartoon.
See the progression?
Yeah the cartoon shouldn't be regarded as much more than a storyboard. Like a comic book movie, fill in the blanks and make it work.
At work i've been given household name characters to design and create in 3D before and I was always conscious of what might piss fans of the property off as was my directors.... I just think Bay should have done more of that.
I realize a lot of people just consider Transformers cheezy but actually most of the fans don't regard it that way. And for that reason neither should the filmmakers of the movie. Being cheezy isn't the appeal of the Transformers. Infact fans regard the whole story and property as pretty... awesome. Look at this picture and tell me you think it was drawn by someone who thinks Transformers are cheezy:
It's funny to see how some of you discuss TRANSFORMERS as if it should be some heavy-handed Shakespearean drama.
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If you think any of this is bad, you should see the boards I hang out at. Some of them were trying to make an argument on how TFs had a larger impact on society than Star Wars.
I mean, come on... I'm a fan, but I'm also a realist. I can admit when something I like is generally cheesy.
which leads me to this:
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Transformers has at least 12 million years of backstory man. Characters that are 9 million years old. I challenge you to name any story that has anything like that.
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Just because a story has 12 million years of potential story doesn't mean it's good / rich. Especially when almost none of it has been explored within canon. How can one properly judge how rich the mythology is when it's never been written?
Also, just look as close as Marvel comics. They have stories and characters that span those amount of years. Hell, Galactus was from a race of beings that were here before the 'big bang'. That right there easily puts the Marvel Universe at being older than TFs. It's not difficult to put rediculous numbers on things. That doesn't make the mythology any better in my opinion.
I forgot another fiction I really enjoyed, War Within. That was my favorite so far, and yes, that was within canon to G1. It showed me the potential of G1 fiction.
I honestly think there's lots of potential with the TFs mythology, but aside from a couple instances, it's never been fully explored, and I'm not about to go and read some fanfiction writer's Mary-Sue story just to fill that out.
In the end, I enjoy TFs for what they are, great toys and ideas. The last 8 years of fiction have done little for me. I enjoy it when people take serious approaches to the series or try something different.
The movie is not G1, it's a total reboot. It is in itself exactly what TFs are all about, changing to adapt to it's suroundings, just as every reboot has done in the past. They try and make the best fiction for the target audience intended. You can't blame them for doing their job. If the movie flops, then it will pass us by and become just another version of the story just as many other fictions have become. If it succeeds, then we'll get a couple more chapters, easy as that.
If you think any of this is bad, you should see the boards I hang out at. Some of them were trying to make an argument on how TFs had a larger impact on society than Star Wars.
I mean, come on... I'm a fan, but I'm also a realist. I can admit when something I like is generally cheesy.
which leads me to this:
The movie is not G1, it's a total reboot. It is in itself exactly what TFs are all about, changing to adapt to it's suroundings, just as every reboot has done in the past. They try and make the best fiction for the target audience intended. You can't blame them for doing their job. If the movie flops, then it will pass us by and become just another version of the story just as many other fictions have become. If it succeeds, then we'll get a couple more chapters, easy as that.
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Thing is, it will succeed, no matter what, wanna bet? mostly cause of the name Transformers attached to it and what that implies. And that means this reboot will erase the possibility of a true G1esque story being told for a long time. Same thing thats happened to Godzilla fans. All the hate you're seeing is the result of their no NEEDING a reboot.
Transformers hasn't had as big of an impact as Star Wars culturally but I think the point is, with the uniqueness of the story and characters, if represented properly, people really believe it could. Its just got a lot more potential for a bigger story than Star Wars.....
Its just got a lot more potential for a bigger story than Star Wars.....
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really? Star Wars has 3 movies, 2 spin off movies, 3 spin off cartoons, 1 upcoming cgi animated series, 1 upcoming live action series, hundereds of comics (dealing in such things as the Knights of the Old Republic era 4,000 years before A New Hope, the whole of the Clone Wars, StarWars Tales where authors could write any type of story they wanted, and the Legacy series detailing 130+ years after ANH), dozens of video games (including Shadows of the Empire and the upcoming Force Unleashed multimedia events), nearly 100 novels, and atleast 3 tabletop rpgs with dozens of rule books fleshing out the galaxy (the d6 WestEnd Games RPG was the official source for new canon), and almost every background character from the movies gets their own back story. oh and don't forget the Incredible Cross-sections books, the Visual Dictionarys, A field guide to the wild life of StarWars, a Galactic Phrase book and travel guide, and Mandolorian (Mando'a) has been turned into a functioning language.
all this creates a single (mostly) cohesive universe instead of restarting the series when there's a new toy line in production.
All the hate you're seeing is the result of their no NEEDING a reboot.
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See the thing is... reboots WILL happen no matter what. They've been rebooting the G1 story far before this movie came around.
RiD was a reboot
BW Neo was a reboot
Armada was a reboot
Super Link was a reboot
Cybertron was a reboot
IDW comics are a reboot
BW was initially a reboot
Hearts of Steel is a reboot
GIJoe / TF (WW2) was a reboot
TF / GIJoe was a reboot
I'm sure I'm leaving more out, but the bottom line is that everytime Hasbro / TakaraTomy wants a new toyline out, they reboot the fiction.
The same goes with the movie.
What's to say that G1 can't get a proper movie treatment later down the road? Batman fans had to put up with the Joel Schumacher movies, only to get their proper 'Batman Begins' story 8 years later.
The mentality of 'Bay will kil TFs because this is our only shot' is extremely short sighted.
Just be patiant. If TFs has as much potential as you believe, then you should be ok with them wetting their feet with this movie. Afterall, it's all for the greater good. If the movie profits, Hasbro/TakaraTomy profits, then we get better toys down the line.
The better they do, the more free they are to service fans with toys such as Classics or Titaniums, which are nothing more than fanwanks.
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Its just got a lot more potential for a bigger story than Star Wars.....
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really? Star Wars has 3 movies, 2 spin off movies, 3 spin off cartoons, 1 upcoming cgi animated series, 1 upcoming live action series, hundereds of comics (dealing in such things as the Knights of the Old Republic era 4,000 years before A New Hope, the whole of the Clone Wars, StarWars Tales where authors could write any type of story they wanted, and the Legacy series detailing 130+ years after ANH), dozens of video games (including Shadows of the Empire and the upcoming Force Unleashed multimedia events), nearly 100 novels, and atleast 3 tabletop rpgs with dozens of rule books fleshing out the galaxy (the d6 WestEnd Games RPG was the official source for new canon), and almost every background character from the movies gets their own back story. oh and don't forget the Incredible Cross-sections books, the Visual Dictionarys, A field guide to the wild life of StarWars, a Galactic Phrase book and travel guide, and Mandolorian (Mando'a) has been turned into a functioning language.
all this creates a single (mostly) cohesive universe instead of restarting the series when there's a new toy line in production.
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I did just say potential, I meant more in the girth of the universe and the length of time in the story. Its prolly like 20 million years, characters that have been alive over 9 million years. Also, Unicron and Primus witnessed the birth of the universe from another dimension and Primus became the protector of the UNIVERSE. Thats taking things to another level.... Star Wars is contained in a single galaxy. But you may be right that Star Wars is more fleshed out than Transformers. I'm talking potential.
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All the hate you're seeing is the result of their no NEEDING a reboot.
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See the thing is... reboots WILL happen no matter what. They've been rebooting the G1 story far before this movie came around.
RiD was a reboot
BW Neo was a reboot
Armada was a reboot
Super Link was a reboot
Cybertron was a reboot
IDW comics are a reboot
BW was initially a reboot
Hearts of Steel is a reboot
GIJoe / TF (WW2) was a reboot
TF / GIJoe was a reboot
I'm sure I'm leaving more out, but the bottom line is that everytime Hasbro / TakaraTomy wants a new toyline out, they reboot the fiction.
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I know Transformers has always been changing and rebooted but the MAJORITY of people do not pay attention to those reboots. Majority of people remember the first one.... The filmmakers knew this enough to promote the movie as being based off the toyline and cartoons from the EIGHTIES! Why not follow through with making the movie. Dont explain why I know their reasons I simply disagree.
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The mentality of 'Bay will kil TFs because this is our only shot' is extremely short sighted.
Just be patiant. If TFs has as much potential as you believe, then you should be ok with them wetting their feet with this movie. Afterall, it's all for the greater good. If the movie profits, Hasbro/TakaraTomy profits, then we get better toys down the line.
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I appreciate that and I know it will be told right one day. I just as you say am...IMPATIENT. And this just pushes it back further.
I think you'll find he has even more potential than TF AND Star Wars combined!
You really want me to explain to you the origins of Optimus Prime? How his name was Orion Pax and how he came to get the matrix? I didn't think so.
Happy reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformers_%28fiction%29
I'm a Quintesson creaton guy.
Afterall, the Quintesson origin is the more G1 accurate one.
You really want me to explain to you the origins of Optimus Prime?
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Wow, this thread just went straight into Nerd Slap Fight territory. I've got to go eat some red meat and fuck my girlfriend before my testosterone levels start dropping...
btw, that pic rocks, Bruticus
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Yeah man, I actually got it off the colorist at TransformersCon a couple weeks ago. Matt Moyner of http://www.lilformers.com/ , it was the alternate cover for a Dreamwave comic that was never released....
But i'm actually more of a unified theorist when it comes to quints / unicron and moreso a quint fan. I think for a live action film a unified theory could somehow tie both lineages in while making both entities equally as powerful as they were portrayed in the toons / comics.
But i'm actually more of a unified theorist when it comes to quints / unicron and moreso a quint fan. I think for a live action film a unified theory could somehow tie both lineages in while making both entities equally as powerful as they were portrayed in the toons / comics.
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Brut please stop. With the amount of transformers I have in my apartment and at the office I really don't want to ever be lumped in with someone who uses the phrase "I am a unified [unicron/quintesson] theorist." No. No. No. Scientists, with SCIENCE, can call themselves [whatever] theorists. People talking about THINGS THAT MATTER, can be [THINGS THAT MATTER] theorists. You are talking about ROBOTS that TRANSFORM into STUFF. Despite my love for all things Transforming, for the original comics, the new comics, the original show and movie, some of the newer shows (well ok just Beast Wars because everything else is fucking trash) the toys, etc, I realize it's just a neat concept.
Transforming Robots is a cool concept and you can do a lot of interesting storytelling with that. The "Transformers Mythology" is not some rich and wonderful fount of storytelling to which all other stories pale in comparison.
It's mostly shit.
There will never be a Citizen Prime with Rosebud the cybersled that exhibits a mastery of the cinema. The "Transformers Mythology" is mostly bored comic book writers having fun with Transforming Robots.
Have you ever read a real book? The arguments you're making seem to imply you are not someone who has exposure to actual literature. While I enjoy plenty of trashy reading myself, including a number of comic books, including a number of Transformer comic books, your diehard belief that Transformers is such a rich and powerful setting is a little frightening.
MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE.....
Just sayin'.
Oh, and 100 replies for cars that become robots? Or is it robots that become cars? Either way...
I only have a few toys, but I'm a huge fan of the comics/show. I have all the graphic novels that have been released so far, in the original prints and trade form. my favorite 2 probably being Heart of Steel and War Within. I loved the prequal novel.
I work with a fella who coloured some Armada stuff.
Just sayin'.
Oh, and 100 replies for cars that become robots? Or is it robots that become cars? Either way...
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Robots that become cars, actually an important note