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Demo reel concept drawings

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Jelmer
polycounter lvl 17
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Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
Gallina Carnivora (flesheating chicken)
Ancestor of our nowadays chicken. This bird steals the eggs of other creatures and scavenges the flesh of the carcasses of dead animals. His big developed leg muscles give him the speed to run or flee from foes. His pointy beak is used to crack open dinosaur eggs.

chicken_final_D.jpg

chick_colors.jpg

silhouette.jpg

Alterations:

The Legs as shown on the concept drawing will be replaced with an ostrich leg, including the foot.
ostrichleg.jpg

Neck and skull refference is provided by the maribou stork.
mariboe.jpg

Some Earlier versions:
chick_2.jpg

chicken_concept_first_pass.jpg





Replies

  • poopinmymouth
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    poopinmymouth polycounter lvl 19
    Too much Dutch, not enough Kanada, I think.

    Looking cool man, I had no idea how large the head drawings were before you showed me the picture of you working on them. Now you better start modeling, slacker.

    I think the bird had a nicer leg feel and bulk in the early sketch faze. He feels smaller and more fragile in the final version.

    Also you lost a bit of the perspective in the rendering of the 3/4 of the head drawing. It felt much more correct in the line drawing. Mainly from the size of the brow ridge. Both the rendering and the line work though, the perspective of the mouth is different than of the eye sockets.

    Minor quibbles, I'm sure you'll do nicely at the modeling stage.

    poop.gif
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Pretty cool. The colouring of the bird works very well.

    I agree with Ben that you're losing some depth and perspective going from sketch to render, the same happened with the bird and the 3/4 view of the head.
    I think this is because your rendering isn't accurately modelling the way light would fall on the subject, some of the highlights seem very randomly placed and there are no evident cast shadows even though the light source is implied to be strong and sharp.

    So yeah, work on the rendering a bit more and show you have a real understanding of what is happening with the light playing over the volumes and forms of the things you're drawing.

    Looks good though, seems like a good starting point for modelling.

    Keep it up smile.gif
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    Hey guys, thanks for the crits. You are right about the 3/4 drawings. I didn't really enjoy drawing a 3/4, it's a lot harder hehe. I'll have to work on that smile.gif
    About the light thing Mop pointed out. I wanted to use shading in a way to define the forms and volume a bit better. I didn't draw in much of the cast shadows for the sake of clearity of the concept, but you're right. They should have been there perhaps.
    I think I have a name for my chicken, or actually 2:
    - Gallina carnivora (flesheating chicken in latin)
    - Rostrum its Latin for beak of a bird and the prow of a ship. The beak is self-explanatory and the prow of a ship, I think its belly looks kinda like that.
  • SouL
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    SouL polycounter lvl 18
    Good overall colors on the bird. Try going for less black and more deep purple in the dark areas... and having more orange bleed out from your reds as your values get lighter.
    Then for some contrast try working some green in there.
  • Ninjas
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    Ninjas polycounter lvl 18
    These are not so bad, but I'm not sure I would put them in a demo reel. I can give you a complete breakdown of my thoughts on these if you are interested.
  • Zatoichi
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    Zatoichi polycounter lvl 18
    What happened? Where are the images? I hope you arn't too sensitive and inflexible to critique. That's never a good sign.
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Eh? Why did you take them down Boskma? You were getting some useful feedback.
  • Ninjas
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    Ninjas polycounter lvl 18
    Hey man, you are 90% there at least. You don't have any reason to be defensive. I don't know for sure, but putting some killer 2D stuff in at the end of you reel seems like a really good idea.
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    Erm, I took them down because after looking at them for a bit longer I wasn't verry happy with the drawings anymore. And didn't want to make a fool of myself by keeping them up. I'll try to improve them first. They are not suposed to apear on my reel as seperate pieces btw. It are concepts which I will be translating to 3D, starting next week
  • Sage
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    Sage polycounter lvl 19
    Jelmer I think you are being too critical on your work. It's true that after you do a piece that you think is great or "good enough" after awhile of looking at it you then start to hate it, but it's doesn't mean that the work is bad. I thought they were quite nice and professional, sure there is always room for improvement but just don't fall into the negative cycle of ripping your work apart just because if you were to do them again you would do it better and faster. That is true about every piece any artist does in their life, provided they are trying to push themselves. I also believe that it's better to have something to refer back on as well so if you choose to fix the images you have something to compare. Rant: You do very good work and you are talented so deal with it and move on! end Rant wink.gif I hope to see the updates. Also it's helpful for us to see the the progression in order to give you good feedback on what you may need to improve. Later.

    Alex
  • xstortionist
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    xstortionist polycounter lvl 17
    Jelmer, you will never make it in this industry with that type of attitude. You need to seriously take into consideration all the people here who are trying to help you advance your skills. Nobody is going to hire a young adult with your type of attitude.
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    yeah you will never make it in the industry if you are afraid of making a fool of yourself, its gonna happen sooner or later anyway laugh.giftongue.gif
    hah like I'm a seasoned pro tongue.gif
    nah man I actually was dissapointed because I wanted to look at them again and I can't be arsed trawling through my massive web cache to find em smile.gif
  • CMB
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    CMB polycounter lvl 18
    A week after I finish something, move on and then look at it again it allways looks terrible.
    It show improvement.
  • Clos3d
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    Clos3d polycounter lvl 17
    If you coming here pimping your work just for some grats and positive comments you better not post at all. The work you posted, wich I can't see should be online still, because it show your good/bad point and tell you what you should improve. You are only making a fool of your self by not keeping them online.

    I am, for one, want to look at your work if is bad or not. You might be a noob but I don't care, as long as you want to improve your work and looking for crits.
    This is why I come here daily and look at everyone post.
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    xstortionist, I have no idea who you are, but if you have some personal issues with me, please email me instead of posting them here. 3 out of your 4 posts are made to insult me, or kick me when I'm down.. Why did you need to dig up this thread anyway?
    Well now it's back on the first page anyway, I might as well give an update. I've started modeling my first demo reel model, which will be the gallina carnivora (flesh eating chicken). I will show you some progress later. I made some alterations to the concept, but I didn't alther the drawings. Instead I searched for tons of refference to help me with certain parts. The leg / neck for now. For those who really want to see my concept drawings. I've edited my first post.
  • Clos3d
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    Clos3d polycounter lvl 17
    that's some good work^^
    Finish the full drawing before you 3dmodel it!
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Good reference pics, i was using some of those ostrich ones for the legs for the General tully and I are doing for the current contest.
    Also WETA used that stork as a basis for one of their evil birds on Skull Island in King Kong, it works very well, it's one of the most nasty looking birds alive! smile.gif

    Keep us posted on the model! smile.gif
  • cep
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    cep polycounter lvl 18
    Those are great Jelmer, arn't you already in the 'industry'?
  • Ninjas
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    Ninjas polycounter lvl 18
    I'm liking the new sketch much more. Good ballence for the character, and consistant style!
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Also on a side note, xstortionist, either start making useful posts, or leave. I've read all of your posts, and none of them were helpful in any way. In particular you seem to have something personal against Jelmer, which I really don't understand since he's a nice guy.
    If I see one more post in the manner of your other 4 (ie. unhelpful and offensive), then you'll be looking at a ban.
    Consider this a warning.

    Sorry about that, JBoskma.
  • yeluis
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    yeluis polycounter lvl 17
    nice to see this drawings back up, nice job man they are really coming along
  • Zatoichi
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    Zatoichi polycounter lvl 18
    Hey! they are back up. They look pretty good to me... (heh, altho that shadow of the guy behind the bird is a little unsettling) wink.gif
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    thanks for the heads up guys. Started blocking out the geometry, and define the head a bit. (this is unsubdivided btw) Give me your worst
    3d58jelmer_head_pass1.jpg
    Silhouette of the proxy:
    3d58jelmer_proxy_silhouette.jpg
  • Daz
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    Daz polycounter lvl 18
    Good start mate! I particularly like the a) more volumous head and b) slightly less humanoid seeming arms than the sketch.
  • gauss
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    gauss polycounter lvl 18
    you're putting in a lot of good work on this beastie and that's great to see, i'm glad to see you posting it again.

    but so far i think you've got a couple of different ideas going that don't quite harmonize--true, you've spent a lot of time developing the individual muscles and features and whatnot, but the overall creature doesn't mesh. it certainly doesn't match the description, at any rate. usually i'm not all that big on sweating some of the smaller stuff, but as i recall from the first time you posted, if it's realism you're going for then there's a fair bit more research and thinking to be done yet if you ask me.

    first, why doesn't it match the description? you say it's a big carnivorous chicken, the predecessor for the modern chicken, and yet you're referencing most of the biology from dissimilar birds like ostriches. which is all well and good, as ostriches are about a thousand time more interesting looking than chickens... i just wouldn't call it a chicken.

    but it doesn't work as an ostrich forebearer, either--an ostrich has vestigial wings, which would suggest that evolutionarily, this bird spent a lot of evo-juice (my term, and you better believe i'm copyrighting it, too laugh.gif ) developing wings it couldn't use, because at the point you're drawing it, it's far too big to fly. so you can't really call it a chicken or ostrich....

    so why not posit this unfortunate creature as one that died out as evolutionarily unfit at some point? saves you the trouble of trying to having to shoehorn certain characteristics into a modern bird that it looks nothing like.

    out of curiosity, have you considered bouncing these ideas off of an actual biologist? that's who i'd be talking to if i was trying to design a prehistoric something or other. visually, this creature doesn't work for me either. which is good, i guess, since i can't take on any more employees at this point, at least not in the "egg stealing and eating" department. laugh.gif
    alright all joking aside, it's awkward looking. the one bit that really bothers me is the attachment point for those forelimbs, and the fact that it has ridiculously large upper arms, which is completely out of keeping with birds or dinosaurs of a similar nature. the chest muscles are highly developed as they ought to, but i just don't get those powerlifter upper arms. what is it using those big arms for, with such a short reach? combined with his huge chicken butt, partial chicken features on an ostrich neck and a very bird-y looking head and beak...
    for all the overtly bird features, nary a feather? google "fuzzy raptor," which is an awesome looking dino-bird thing... that thing was already developing feathers, and yet had an extremely dino-looking head still. your creature seems to have developed some extremely bird-like characteristics, feet, body, head, etc, yet has no feathers, a vestigial tail, and dino style forelimbs? it just looks like the body parts have been evolving at completely different rates with respect to each other.

    i'm not saying this concept can't work, i just think it could probably use some rethinking for it to be a bit more consistent with what we understand of evolution, as well as to make it look more pleasing and sensical on a visual level. but hey, i could be totally off on that point--if you've got references for bird-y dinosaurs that had these kind of features, then i stand corrected.

    that being said, i'm glad you've reposted this work and are sharing your progress with us. your male modeling project was ambitious but i think it clearly paid dividends, and i think you'll reap similar rewards after this project. the hardest won battles often carry the most memorable lessons... so keep at it. hope this is helpful.
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    Hey thanks guys.
    Good points gauss. Let's see, the name / backstory of the creature. I guess the story only counts for his personality, and character. That it isn't much of a chicken anymore, is right. ''so why not posit this unfortunate creature as one that died out as evolutionarily unfit at some point?''
    Good point mate, allthough my reel is purely focused towards modeling and less towards concept art, but it might save me some problems indeed.

    Good points concerning the big upper arms. I will deffinatly slim them down once I'm there with the modeling. Do you have any suggestions / drawovers, on how to connect the arms in a better way?

    Oh and I'm indeed going for realism in the modeling / texturing aproach. Once this thing is done it should be at the quality that it would fit seamlessy in a film shot. (that's where I'm aiming for, not saying I will succeed though).
    But I wasn't as much focused on the 'real' part concerning the biological state of things. I got inspired by a photo of a featherless chicken, and I wanted to build an interesting looking creature from that. Where featherless wings didn't make much sense to me, I replaced them with arms. The arms will indeed apear a lot more like wings in the model, then they do in the concept btw. The position / muscle structure will be more birdy then human.

    You've brought up a few excelent points though, which I'd love to discuss with you a bit more. Do you happen to use msn? feel free to send me a pm with your details. Thanks!
  • Jelmer
  • chico
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    chico polycounter lvl 17
    that's getting pretty cool now mr Jelmer:)
    nice stuff

    chico
  • Ujn_Hunter
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    Ujn_Hunter polycounter lvl 17
    that's really cool, the last pic reminds me of Chamberlain from the Dark Crystal... heh. Good work!
  • LordScottish
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    LordScottish polycounter lvl 18
    awesome, a very convincing creature!
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    Didn't get much done today. But started blocking the main shapes of the shoulders area. And did some sss test.
    3d58jelmer_body_block.jpg
  • vahl
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    vahl polycounter lvl 18
    nicey mate smile.gif will really be an awesome piece in your folio smile.gif
  • xstortionist
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    xstortionist polycounter lvl 17
    i give my input when it is needed...im just tired of his immature attitude toward critiques. I usually don't post unless it's for a good cause. I check out this site once a day when im at work during my lunch break, and i don't post work because I dont do work unless it involves money now a days, and i was really wanting to see jelmer finish product truthfully. He has skill, and I just want to see him excell.
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
  • ebagg
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    ebagg polycounter lvl 17
  • Dark Sepiroth
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    Dark Sepiroth polycounter lvl 17
    dopeness laugh.gif

    props
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Looking good, I like the shapes and such, however is that wireframe your control mesh? If so, it's getting far too dense. You've got huge amounts of edges and polys defining nothing at all - for example on the neck and thigh, those are smooth surfaces, they shouldn't need any more than a few polys defining them since they have no detail as such.

    Daz's red demon/human highpoly model was a great example of this - his poly distribution was such that only the areas which needed detail had the extra polys, and smooth areas were nicely handled with as few control edges as possible so as to keep them easy to manipulate and consistent when subdivided.
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    Mop: It's indeed my control mesh. I want a fleshy organic look to the thing. And don't want to use displacement or Zbrush for the geometry. You are totaly right about the neck btw. I'm going to pose this guy next week, and with that the neck will get a lot of wrinkles, which are depending on what pose I'll give him. The mesh is 30,000 polygons right now (102,000, 1 time subdivided) I'm aiming to get him around 250,000-300,000 polygons (subdivided).
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    simply awesome, i love the way you "muscled" this little fella ! love him, like a twisted version of a chocobo!
  • Ninjas
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    Ninjas polycounter lvl 18
    The beak looks much better now I think. I think the breasts look a little steroid enhanced (like a modern box raised chicken) and I'm not sure it could grow like that naturally, but I think the thieghs are perfect for a bird of that size. Keep it up, the detail is awesome.
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    Thanks guys. I couldn't get anything else done at the model today, as we had our midterm presentations. Got some good feedback and the instructors and mentors seemed to like my stuff. That's nice. Here's some more pictures before I move on.
    pose_head.jpg

    chickenposewire.jpg

    sss3.jpg
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Looks nice.

    Do you have a bone in the thigh? It kinda looks a little odd to me around the area where the leg is bending, it almost looks like it shouldn't attach that high - the entire upper leg joint is fused to the body, and only becomes a free-moving leg past the knee joint.

    Also I still think that control mesh is ridiculous wink.gif

    Good that your instructors like it though. Keep it up.
  • John Warner
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    John Warner polycounter lvl 18
    dude that totaly owns. awesome work man. you're going to get scooped up right away when you grad if you keep this up. awesome. i'd like to cast a vote and say that i disagree reguarding the control mesh- you've used it very well and the fine detail you've added everywhere really sells the model. i'm just starting to learn the hard way that if i want to model any sort of decent detail that can be deformed, i guess i'm gonna have to sub-devide my stuff and go in by hand.

    once again, i'm a big fan. keep it going bro smile.gif
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    Hey mop, thanks for your reply. I think that bone you are looking at is the aliac crest thing (hipbone) coming through under the muscle. I think tis' called Ilium on a chicken. It might be to small / sharp, so I'll try to smooth it out a bit, and see how that looks. Good eye!
    The upper leg is actually not really a leg, more some muscles that drive the 'lower leg'. It's hard to explain for me, here's a picture that should illustrate what I mean.

    Ninjas, I see what you mean, I'll smooth it out, I think you are right.

    John, thanks man, good to hear that you like it! smile.gif We should have a Vancouver PC meeting soon. DeathKitten wants to come too, sweet..

    Mop, here's the picture:
    UT0114571.jpg

    Here you can see that the top part is attached to the body:
    massivechange_chicken_050310.jpg
  • Marine
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    Marine polycounter lvl 18
  • rooster
  • DeathKitten
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    DeathKitten polycounter lvl 18
    Hey Jelmer smile.gif

    Your dinochicken model is truly an inspiring piece of artwork. From concept to model you've really managed to create a believable critter. I have nothing to offer as far as crits go because I have absolutely no experience with hi poly nor chickens wink.gif so all I have to say is:

    Props to you kiddo, now stop playing WoW & finish it up already! tongue.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    We should have a Vancouver PC meeting soon. DeathKitten wants to come too, sweet..


    [/ QUOTE ]
    well... I don't know about sweet laugh.gif but yeah, a meet&greet sounds like fun

    -DeathKitten =^..^=
  • Keg
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    Keg polycounter lvl 18
    another bc meet up? hells ya i'm game for such. don't ask me o organize again.
  • Jelmer
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    Jelmer polycounter lvl 17
    edit: update below
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