[WIP] Aftermarket MPX SMG (Looking for Criticism)

coolguyslims · Sep 2021

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/4x/9bjsybw2kedm.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/90/mmtr03f4ckh5.jpg

Hello,

This is a MPX model I've been working on for a while. I've been modeling the whole thing in Maya.

It's my biggest project so far, but I can't help but think that the edges are all too sharp for a high-poly model. I keep seeing people make high-poly models in ZBrush and I feel like they look so much better. Also is it just me or does the Aimpoint PRO optic look far tighter and sharp compared to the rest of the gun? I feel like the difference between low-poly and high-poly on this project is too small. I'm thinking I should just use ZBrush for all my high-poly work.

I've never got past the high-poly stage of modeling a full scale project, so I'm a bit new to this. I've also never baked anything this complex onto a low-poly version.

What do you all think? Is there enough detail here to be a good high-poly? I welcome your thoughts and criticism.

Thank you.

EDIT:
I should also mention that the stock is in low-poly at the moment, disregard that part.

teodar23 · Sep 2021

The aimpoint seems rather large.

I dont know if maya has this but maybe there's a relax modifier in order to soften the edges.

Regarding the baking... brace yourself. Grab some tutorials, some popcorn and do some test bakes.

Good start!

Rektum · Sep 2021

It looks like you have enough detail here to bake. Many of the high frequency details can be added while you texture.

I agree that some of your edges are way too sharp(when compared to battlefield 4 weapons.) it can be scary to smooth out those corners because you lose edge definition but you’ll get it back once you get into texturing.

your weapon suffers from an affliction that many beginner guns do; the handle is too fat. It’s not obvious in the first shot but in the second it looks like it’s nearly square at the bottom. Can you show an angle looking up at the handle?

overall it looks good and clean, it just needs some love on those sharp surface transitions.

coolguyslims · Sep 2021

Rektum said:

It looks like you have enough detail here to bake. Many of the high frequency details can be added while you texture.

I agree that some of your edges are way too sharp(when compared to battlefield 4 weapons.) it can be scary to smooth out those corners because you lose edge definition but you’ll get it back once you get into texturing.

your weapon suffers from an affliction that many beginner guns do; the handle is too fat. It’s not obvious in the first shot but in the second it looks like it’s nearly square at the bottom. Can you show an angle looking up at the handle?

overall it looks good and clean, it just needs some love on those sharp surface transitions.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/8p/fs5bf8fqqq9t.jpg

Here is the grip. I agree, it's a little too box-like. This should be a simple fix.

Regarding the sharp edges, what stands out to you in particular? I'm kind of dreading having to go back and fix all this stuff. I know for certain that the lens covers on the optic are too sharp.

kanga · Sep 2021

Looks super!
Like you said it looks a little sharp in places. Good work on modelling the difficult forms. If you have zbrush at your disposal you might try another method. https://polycount.com/discussion/168610/3ds-max-zbrush-proboolean-dynamesh-hardsurface-workflow-tutorial/p1 Is a thread that should interest you. If you have seen it disregard the rest. Just box model (to a relatively low level) in your standard app with the use of super booleans, then import it into zbrush (where everything gets connected up automatically), then using polygroups polish parts. I got the detail below.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/29/yk1vhazadu1k.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/cb/lantervbsjmw.jpg

All the zbvrush goodies come into play like noise maker etc. The method gives you fine control of surfaces. For instance the fillets on the stock I never dreamed I could get the super rounding without stuffing up the form. That particular part looks way too hard on your model above. In zbrush you can just keep polishing and then step back a bit if needed till you are happy with the look.

Rektum · Sep 2021

These two are a couple of the worst offenders. The surface transitions in the scope DO look pretty tight though(sorry!)

The main issue here is that your normal map won’t have enough resolution to show the surface transition. You either have a transition between two pixels which looks like a razor sharp line or you have a transition that occurs over 1-2 pixels which ends up looking garbled. You want to make sure you provide enough texture space around your corners to have clean transitions.

coolguyslims · Sep 2021

kanga said:

Looks super!
Like you said it looks a little sharp in places. Good work on modelling the difficult forms. If you have zbrush at your disposal you might try another method. https://polycount.com/discussion/168610/3ds-max-zbrush-proboolean-dynamesh-hardsurface-workflow-tutorial/p1 Is a thread that should interest you. If you have seen it disregard the rest. Just box model (to a relatively low level) in your standard app with the use of super booleans, then import it into zbrush (where everything gets connected up automatically), then using polygroups polish parts. I got the detail below.
All the zbvrush goodies come into play like noise maker etc. The method gives you fine control of surfaces. For instance the fillets on the stock I never dreamed I could get the super rounding without stuffing up the form. That particular part looks way too hard on your model above. In zbrush you can just keep polishing and then step back a bit if needed till you are happy with the look.

Thank you for the advice, the information in that thread seems brilliant! Unfortunately I don't use 3DS Max. Can you use Pro Booleans in Maya or is that only in 3DS Max? If not I may want to switch...

I know ZBrush has Live Booleans, but I hate importing and exporting everything for each small change.

kanga · Sep 2021

Ah ok. The technique is not application specific except for zBrush so you should be right. I think the thing with probooleans is that they allow ngons after being applied. I'm pretty sure Maya does the same. I'm using Blender and it allows ngons. Looking through the thread should give you a blow by blow description. I think the main points are to provide enough geometry on curves and once you have run boolean operations that ngons are allowed to exist. Also I think I remember to import, (not GoZ) the model as this will allow the vertex connection on import to zBrush.

Once the booleaned, lowpoly is in zB you can assign polygroups to the mesh and then subdivide the model. You cant then use polygroups to polish parts with the deformation tool. You can use ztools to further detail your model (noise maker). As far as exporting everything for each small change, you don't need to go back and forth, you only need to make changes to the booleaned lowpoly and then reimport it to zB. The only time you will want to go back to your 3D soft is with a decimated version as a base for the construction of a lowpoly, or game ready mesh.

Phoenix995 · Sep 2021

uhh looks great! i always love to see smooth weapons

as other people said already it looks a bit too sharp in some places, but overall it look great!
will you go for a lowpoly as well or just good old renders of your highipoly?

sacboi · Sep 2021

I'm curious, were you working off of SIG Sauer OEM refs?

"I'm kind of dreading having to go back and fix all this stuff."

To be entirely honest there's no getting around it, revision, revision then even moar revision is really part and parcel when seeking too replicate a highly accurate depiction, If indeed an envisioned goal?!

coolguyslims · May 2022

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2760033#Comment_2760033

I know this is kind of necro-ing the thread, but I just had to mention this in case you see it. I hope polycount will send you a notification or something.

This recommendation to use ZBrush saved my life, I can't believe I was wasting so much time modeling in Maya. Your comment and the thread you posted was a fantastic resource. I since then abandoned my old MPX project to create an SP2022 handgun incorporating ZBrush into my workflow, which came out like this:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8wkOBn

After completing that project I wanted to resume the MPX I ditched, so I'm almost finished with the high-poly. I actually happened upon this thread by looking up Google images of an aftermarket MPX because I wanted to decide what optic to include with my project since I decided against the Aimpoint I included before. An image of the old MPX I made in Maya was near the top of the searches, so here I am. Full circle, go figure.

I'll make a post in the critiques forum when the high-poly is finished, but for now I just have some quick ZBrush renders to show. Here's what I've got so far:

Obviously a lot of these assets are just placeholders.

So yeah, ZBrush is an amazing software that saved me a lot of time and improved the quality of my projects. Thanks for the recommendation, sincerely!

kanga · May 2022

Great

Looks like you got it under control😀

Just in case,.... the thread: 3ds Max/Zbrush: Proboolean + Dynamesh hardsurface workflow tutorial isn't from me. The method is from Amsterdam Hilton Hotel, a polycount member.

[WIP] Aftermarket MPX SMG (Looking for Criticism)

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