Knald - Master Thread

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  • tynew
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    tynew polycounter lvl 6
    Is this thread dead? Spending $100 on a program and using it for work I was hoping I could get some support/help :)
  • malcolm
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    malcolm Polycount Sponsor
    I'd still like to move over to the beta build, but with the interface resetting each time I launch the program I've gone back to the pre beta build.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    malcolm wrote: »
    Hey guys, couple small feature requests.
    1. Could you make the scroll wheel work in the 2D view to zoom in.
    2. Can you make it so the 2D preview can be bilinear filtered again.
    3. I think this is a bug, saving turning off diffuse/vcols and then saving settings resets when you open the application.

    1. Sure, I think that shouldn't be too hard to do.
    2. We can add an option in the prefs to toggle this.
    malcolm wrote: »
    Actually, the whole save load interface stuff is really broken for me. Saving the tab for file formats doesn't work either. I set 16bit png and it reverts to 8 when I open the app again. Also pressing alt F7 does some weird shit, instead of loading the settings I've saved it changes the window layout completely.

    I'm having to load the save file manually each time I open the app just to get it to behave like normal.
    malcolm wrote: »
    I'd still like to move over to the beta build, but with the interface resetting each time I launch the program I've gone back to the pre beta build.

    We are looking into this as we speak.

    Thanks for the report, Malcolm. I will take a look into this and see if I can reproduce the issue.
    tynew wrote: »
    I have a weird bug. Importing some specific normal maps to start working off cause Knald to stop responding. It says it's integrated in the status bar but if i click anything it stops responding. I've even waited 15 minutes without any success.

    Regarding this, I created a normal from a color map of some generic rocks. Then tried importing that normal and it caused the same bug.

    Here's one of the normal files I tried: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwnhBIRqmJGMdTFuSmRueWNhWGM/edit?usp=drivesdk

    EDIT:
    I've tested out the baker as well. It's working really nice. One more problem. When I have dilation/padding turned on and export as a tga(seems to happen on any format), the exported normal has no dilation?

    I have just tested for these issues and I cant reproduce any of them unfortunately, even with the map you posted.

    Which driver/GPU are you currently using? Can you try and do a clean install of the latest driver please and let me know how you get on?
    https://www.knaldtech.com/docs/doku.php?id=clean_driver_installation

    Regarding the dilation issue bear in mind that you have to rebake if you change the dilation setting in order for it to take effect.
    i.e if you bake without dilation and then check it on you have to rebake for the dilation to appear on the exported maps
    tynew wrote: »
    Is this thread dead? Spending $100 on a program and using it for work I was hoping I could get some support/help :)

    No the thread isn't dead :)
    I seem to have some issues where I don't get notifications of replies sometimes. I got one today however, thus my reply :)

    You can always contact us via our support emails, which are listed on the website and docs too. [email protected] or [email protected]


    We should be releasing the next beta build over the next few days which includes some misc bug fixes, copy/paste and low poly refresh.
  • Framedworld
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    Framedworld polycounter lvl 5
    will it have the ability to override the normals like in Xnormal? One of the things that kinda kill my workflow is having to export objects into maya and the export them again as FBX just so the high poly with have harden normals. It would just be so much nicer if like in xnormal you could decide whether or not to use the exported normals or overide them averaged or hardened.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    will it have the ability to override the normals like in Xnormal? One of the things that kinda kill my workflow is having to export objects into maya and the export them again as FBX just so the high poly with have harden normals. It would just be so much nicer if like in xnormal you could decide whether or not to use the exported normals or overide them averaged or hardened.

    Currently we just use the normals that are included with the imported file, but I can see about perhaps adding the ability to override them during the beta.
    No promises but I will see what I can do. :)
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    malcolm wrote: »
    I'd still like to move over to the beta build, but with the interface resetting each time I launch the program I've gone back to the pre beta build.

    Hi Malcolm,

    Can you try deleting all the files found in %username%\AppData\Roaming\Knald Technologies please?

    This will totally wipe your settings and allow you to start from a clean slate in regards to the config files.

    If you want to keep anything please ensure that you back up the files too.

    Once you have done this can you let me know if the issue still persists please?

    Cheers!
  • maze
    looks good. Are there any plans for linux? its rare that I find any windows in production environment (vfx)
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    maze wrote: »
    looks good. Are there any plans for linux? its rare that I find any windows in production environment (vfx)

    Thanks :)

    I will have a poke around and see what I can come up with in regards to a proper answer for you.
  • maze
    Thanks Andy,

    I've used knald at a past studio I worked for and found it useful , at that studio they ve had setup some common windows workstations with such software thats how I found it!, I do undestand that it is targeted to the game industry though, thanks for asking
  • malcolm
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    malcolm Polycount Sponsor
    metalliandy, deleted everything in that folder, booted up Knald beta, turned off diffuse, clicked the down arrow above it to save settings, restarted the program, diffuse turned back on so still broken for me.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    maze wrote: »
    Thanks Andy,

    I've used knald at a past studio I worked for and found it useful , at that studio they ve had setup some common windows workstations with such software thats how I found it!, I do undestand that it is targeted to the game industry though, thanks for asking

    No problem! I will post when I find out something.
    malcolm wrote: »
    metalliandy, deleted everything in that folder, booted up Knald beta, turned off diffuse, clicked the down arrow above it to save settings, restarted the program, diffuse turned back on so still broken for me.

    Thanks for trying that out. Does the interface still do funny stuff when you press F7?
  • malcolm
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    malcolm Polycount Sponsor
    F7 seems to reset the group as expected, pressing F7 in the 3D Preview group does nothing. Hmmm, doing some more testing this morning everything is working as expected, except the saving of diffuse colours turned off? Perhaps the bug is diffuse colours can't be saved. I will try deleting my prefs at work and see if that fixes the settings not sticking around between sessions.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    malcolm wrote: »
    F7 seems to reset the group as expected, pressing F7 in the 3D Preview group does nothing. Hmmm, doing some more testing this morning everything is working as expected, except the saving of diffuse colours turned off? Perhaps the bug is diffuse colours can't be saved. I will try deleting my prefs at work and see if that fixes the settings not sticking around between sessions.

    Thanks, Malcolm. I can confirm that the diffuse saves correctly here but I will continue to investigate more to see if I can reproduce the issue.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    knald_1.1.png

    Hey everyone,

    New build ahoy! After a few weeks of heavy development we are happy to release another update with lots of new features, improvements and optimizations.

    We have added support for Cavity and Convexity maps baking as a prelude for the forthcoming Curvature support along with Copy/Paste support and LP refresh!

    cavity_convexity_knald_1.1.0_beta.jpg

    Build Number: 20150723001 – July 23rd, 2015.

    New Features, Improvements and Optimizations
    • Added support for Cavity maps in The Baker.
    • Added support for Convexity maps in The Baker.
    • Added support for copy/paste (CTRL+C/CTRL+V).
    • Added low poly mesh refresh when mesh is modified externally. -You must hit bake for the changes to the mesh to appear in Knald.
    • Mesh processing improvements.
    • The Knald Demo now supports the full 1.1.0 feature set.
    • Miscellaneous improvements and optimizations.

    Bug fixes
    • Fixed an issue where vertex colors were not rendered correctly for non-square textures.
    • Fixed an issue where under some circumstances baking -MeshAO in Integrator mode after using the baker caused a crash.
    • Fixed an issue where some GUI element positions were not saved correctly in the configuration .ini.
    • Fixed a few minor GUI related issues.
    • Miscellaneous bug fixes.


    You can grab the new beta build from https://www.knaldtech.com/knald-1-1-0-open-beta/

    You can find build notes here: https://www.knaldtech.com/knald-update-build20150723001/

    We are getting some amazing feedback for the baker so please do continue sending/posting everything you can! <3

    Enjoy!

    The KnaldTECH Team
  • malcolm
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    malcolm Polycount Sponsor
    Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssss, thank you very much guys! Copyyyyyyyyyyy paaaaaaaste!
  • gnoop
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    gnoop polycounter lvl 9
    Could somebody explain what's the advantages of Knald vs generating curvature and AO in soft like Subtance Designer/Painter, Quixel etc. Does they came better quality or something ? Any other nuances? Or it's just more visually adjustable?
  • myclay
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    myclay polycounter lvl 6
    Substance Designer/Painter & Quixel suite are extremely slow with baking.
    Substance Painter only allows the baking of 4k images.

    Knald on the other side is a beast in shortening the Baking process +
    you can bake 8k images with it.
  • odd_enough
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    odd_enough polycounter lvl 7
    26139_excited-muppets-kermit-kermit-the-frog-yay.gif
  • gnoop
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    gnoop polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks.

    Am I right when think Knald can't bake into multi sub- materials/multi textures/uv?


    Freelance license is commercial for freelancers/independent contractors or for non-commercial purpose only?
  • gnoop
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    gnoop polycounter lvl 9
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    .
  • gnoop
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    gnoop polycounter lvl 9
    How is Knald in comparison with Topogan GPU AO baking?
  • myclay
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    myclay polycounter lvl 6
    @ Jerc

    many thanks for your clarification :D
    I will re-evaluate the baking process in SP soon and try out the baking in SD.



    gnoop
    there is a 30 day trial of Knald available, hopefully you can do some fruitful comparisons.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    knald_1.1.0_cust_beta.png

    Hey everyone,

    New build ahoy! Hot on the heels of last weeks beta release we are happy to release another update with a very popular feature request... Curvature baking!

    As promised, not only can you now bake true high to low curvature maps within Knald, but we also added support for them in image space too, meaning that you can generate them from Normal and Height maps via The Integrator! :)

    curvature_knald_1.1.jpg

    Build Number: 20150727001 – July 28th 20th, 2015.

    New Features, Improvements and Optimizations

    • Added single and dual channel Curvature maps to The Baker.
    • Added single channel image space curvature.
    • Added a new Lys style contrast slider to Concavity & Convexity.
    • Updated the Beta documentation.
    • Miscellaneous improvements and optimizations.


    Bug fixes
    • Fixed a few small copy/paste issues.
    • Miscellaneous bug fixes.



    You can grab the new beta build from https://www.knaldtech.com/knald-1-1-0-open-beta/

    You can find build notes here: https://www.knaldtech.com/knald-update-build20150727001/

    We are really loving the feedback we are getting so far regarding the baker so please do continue sending/posting everything you can! <3
  • inwar
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    inwar polycounter lvl 6
    I used to use xNormal for all my baking but recently replaced it with Knald after the baker was implemented and I don't think I would be able to go back. So much easier and faster to setup and bake than xNormal or anything else I've tried. Would totally recommend to anyone! :D
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    malcolm wrote: »
    Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssss, thank you very much guys! Copyyyyyyyyyyy paaaaaaaste!

    You are most welcome. :)
    gnoop wrote: »
    Thanks.

    Am I right when think Knald can't bake into multi sub- materials/multi textures/uv?

    No currently, but it's something that we might be able to add at a later date.
    gnoop wrote: »
    Freelance license is commercial for freelancers/independent contractors or for non-commercial purpose only?
    You can use the Freelancer license for both freelancer/independent contractor work or for non-commercial use.

    Hope that helps!
    inwar wrote: »
    I used to use xNormal for all my baking but recently replaced it with Knald after the baker was implemented and I don't think I would be able to go back. So much easier and faster to setup and bake than xNormal or anything else I've tried. Would totally recommend to anyone! :D

    Thanks for the very kind words! Glad you are happy :)
  • HaloAnimator
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    HaloAnimator polycounter lvl 12
    I am loving the new build for curvature maps... perfect timing for things that are hard surface like weapons.

    Also I wonder if we will have control for AO Brightness and Darkness... would be useful for this in mouth interiors... also will multiple low poly/matching be included in future builds...?
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    I am loving the new build for curvature maps... perfect timing for things that are hard surface like weapons.

    Also I wonder if we will have control for AO Brightness and Darkness... would be useful for this in mouth interiors... also will multiple low poly/matching be included in future builds...?

    Thanks for the kind words :)

    I can't make any promises but I can put them on my list and see what happens :)

    Thanks for the suggestion!
  • HaloAnimator
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    HaloAnimator polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for the kind words :)

    I can't make any promises but I can put them on my list and see what happens :)

    Thanks for the suggestion!


    Not a problem... it would be very hard to explode all of these pieces.
  • malcolm
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    malcolm Polycount Sponsor
    Hi guys, while trying to show my wife the copy paste functionality I think I've found a bug in the latest demo. Open the app, try to paste something in, the little window appears asking you if you want colour map, norm, height, etc. Choose cancel, copy paste will no longer work now until you close and reopen Knald.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    Nice catch, Malcolm. At first glance it does indeed look like you found a bug!

    Thanks for the report!
  • cgilbert
    malcolm wrote: »
    Hi guys, while trying to show my wife the copy paste functionality I think I've found a bug in the latest demo. Open the app, try to paste something in, the little window appears asking you if you want colour map, norm, height, etc. Choose cancel, copy paste will no longer work now until you close and reopen Knald.

    Thanks for the report! It will be fixed in our next build.
  • MaVCArt
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    MaVCArt polycounter lvl 8
    This latest release just made my day, been using it for tons of textures and the speed is just mindblowing. I showed this at work and the very first comment of one of my colleagues while baking a 12 million triangle mesh in 3 seconds at 4 k resolution was: "What kind of animal did they sacrifice to make this work?!"

    cheers for this guys :)
  • mystichobo
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    mystichobo polycounter lvl 8
    Hey guys,

    I'm having a bit of trouble getting the baker to properly load up custom cages, it appears to just use the default knald generated one.

    Is there a log or something somewhere to try and troubleshoot what's going on?

    The only thing I can think of that it could be is (from the docs):
    Where the topology of the selected cage mesh does not match that of the low poly mesh (different vertex order, UVs or triangle count etc.), Knald will fall-back to its secondary option for non-topologically matched cages. In such cases the specified cage mesh will still be used.
    but both meshes (the lowpoly and cage) have no issues at all with other bakers such as xnormal.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    MaVCArt wrote: »
    This latest release just made my day, been using it for tons of textures and the speed is just mindblowing. I showed this at work and the very first comment of one of my colleagues while baking a 12 million triangle mesh in 3 seconds at 4 k resolution was: "What kind of animal did they sacrifice to make this work?!"

    cheers for this guys :)
    Thanks for the awesome comments, Mattias! I might put that as a tag line for a T-Shirt or something. ;)
    mystichobo wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I'm having a bit of trouble getting the baker to properly load up custom cages, it appears to just use the default knald generated one.

    Is there a log or something somewhere to try and troubleshoot what's going on?

    The only thing I can think of that it could be is (from the docs):
    but both meshes (the lowpoly and cage) have no issues at all with other bakers such as xnormal.

    A good way to know if you are using the imported cage or not is that the push slider will become ghosted when one is loaded.

    If Knald falls back to its secondary option for non-topologically matched cages you will get a popup the same as the one below

    non_topo_cages_knald.png

    I would be more than happy to take a look at the files for you if you upload them and PM me with a download link.

    Another thing could be that the automatic range value is incorrect for your mesh. Set the "Search Range" to Manual in the dropdown, adjust the value with the range slider so that it is fully enclosed by the HP mesh and try baking again.
    Hopefully that will fix the issue you are having.

    Cheers! :)
  • mystichobo
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    mystichobo polycounter lvl 8
    A good way to know if you are using the imported cage or not is that the push slider will become ghosted when one is loaded.

    If Knald falls back to its secondary option for non-topologically matched cages you will get a popup the same as the one below

    non_topo_cages_knald.png

    I would be more than happy to take a look at the files for you if you upload them and PM me with a download link.

    Another thing could be that the automatic range value is incorrect for your mesh. Set the "Search Range" to Manual in the dropdown, adjust the value with the range slider so that it is fully enclosed by the HP mesh and try baking again.
    Hopefully that will fix the issue you are having.

    Cheers! :)

    Hmm, it was definitely greyed out, and I didn't get any errors like that, but the cage mesh in the viewer was also definitely not the one I exported from max.

    I'll try to reproduce it with my license at home, but if I can't I'll make sure to fire the problem files your way Monday morning :)
  • malcolm
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    malcolm Polycount Sponsor
    Another bug, each time you paste into knald the bit depth in the export settings is reset. I have to keep changing it back to 32bit tif each time I paste into the app.
  • malcolm
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    malcolm Polycount Sponsor
    Found another bug, moving sliders by clicking will instead of dragging will move the slider bar, but won't actually update the software, so setting bump scale super low has no affect even though the slider bar visually moves, you must drag it for Knald to recognize the tweak.
  • metalliandy
  • greyocto
    wanted to say how much I'm using and loving the baking in knald. So fast and solid, doesn't care how many polys I throw at it. I love it!

    Issues I've had are the same as noted before with external cages from max not working (xnormal has difficulty here too, I think max must have some issue with vertex numbering or something) . Also the curvature bakes are coming out with splotches.

    I'd like to see added might be transferring textures like xnormal(from hp to lp or lp to different uv lp). It also might be interesting to look into things like modo's smooth edge shsder http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146280
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    greyocto wrote: »
    wanted to say how much I'm using and loving the baking in knald. So fast and solid, doesn't care how many polys I throw at it. I love it!
    That's fantastic! Thanks for the kind words :)
    greyocto wrote: »
    Issues I've had are the same as noted before with external cages from max not working (xnormal has difficulty here too, I think max must have some issue with vertex numbering or something) .
    greyocto wrote: »
    Also the curvature bakes are coming out with splotches.

    Would it be possible for you to post a screenshot/texture and send us a test asset for both issues please?
    Having something from which we can reproduce what you are seeing can work wonders and really help with troubleshooting possible issues.

    Feel free to PM me with the test assets if you don't want to post them publicly.
    greyocto wrote: »
    I'd like to see added might be transferring textures like xnormal(from hp to lp or lp to different uv lp). It also might be interesting to look into things like modo's smooth edge shsder http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146280

    Awesome, thanks for the requests! :)
  • Noth
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    Noth polycounter lvl 10
    Has anyone suggested expanding on the AO baking options? Maybe including a Skylight option like Topogun has? Or maybe Point light baking? Maybe with interactive point light placement? :D

    Software is great btw.
  • s1dK
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    s1dK interpolator
    OK, downloaded and testing but i have some problems, i loaded up a hp, lp and cage meshe but the Pre Process and Update Integrator are grey`d out and i don`t have a bake button like in the youtube video, and when i open the 3D preview, i only see the low poly mesh even if i check or uncheck the View High Poly or View Cage.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    Noth wrote: »
    Has anyone suggested expanding on the AO baking options? Maybe including a Skylight option like Topogun has? Or maybe Point light baking? Maybe with interactive point light placement? :D

    Software is great btw.

    Thanks for the suggestions and the kind words :)

    s1dK wrote: »
    OK, downloaded and testing but i have some problems, i loaded up a hp, lp and cage meshe but the Pre Process and Update Integrator are grey`d out and i don`t have a bake button like in the youtube video, and when i open the 3D preview, i only see the low poly mesh even if i check or uncheck the View High Poly or View Cage.
    Hi s1dK,

    Did you add any bake targets in the Bake Targets group? The Pre Process/Bake button wont show up otherwise.

    https://www.knaldtech.com/docs/doku.php?id=the_baker_knald#bake_target_settings

    Please let me know how you get on :)
  • s1dK
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    s1dK interpolator
    Oh yeah, i did that after i posted, my bad :(, testing more !!!!!

    I have some strange bakes in the middle of this piece, check screens, looks like its stretching.

    HP -> LP and Cage

    NUPdNtj.png
    LXIuVe1.png
    9zxcblQ.png
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy greentooth
    s1dK wrote: »
    Oh yeah, i did that after i posted, my bad :(, testing more !!!!!

    I have some strange bakes in the middle of this piece, check screens, looks like its stretching.

    HP -> LP and Cage

    NUPdNtj.png
    LXIuVe1.png
    9zxcblQ.png

    Thanks for the reply!

    That looks like dilation because the range isn't being set at the correct distance automatically.

    We have 2 types of cages: The projection cage and the "Range" cage. The range cage basically acts like the search distance and is by default set to twice the distance that the regular cage is from low poly mesh.
    In cases where the projection cage is very close to the low poly, the range cage may not be behind the high poly mesh which causes the rays to terminate before they reach any high poly geometry and therefore have nothing to sample from. This would cause results similar to what you have in your examples.

    To fix this you can set the Search Range dropdown to Manual and adjust the Range slider until it is under the HP mesh.

    Hope that helps!
  • oxidave
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    oxidave polycounter lvl 10
    Here's a feature request:
    If you have a high poly that has uv's and a base texture it would be great to have an input for that in knald and an output map for base texture. That way you could transfer the albedo from high to low. This would be helpful for processing photogrammetry objects.

    On the baker tab under Bake Meshes:
    Under High Poly 1 - add a dialogue to add a base texture.

    Under Bake Targets:
    add a Map Type for Base texture

    Thanks!
  • Fingus
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    Fingus polycounter lvl 9
    I second that. Also, if possible the ability to bake the material colors of the highpoly for use as selection masks, DDO, etc.
  • HaloAnimator
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    HaloAnimator polycounter lvl 12
    I am definitely enjoying the new build...

    I do have a few feature requests and they mad seem minor to you, but these would be a life saver.

    You have multiple High Poly models... what if we could have multiple low poly pieces and set a high poly parent and offset it. Or if there is Batch Rendering in Knald, is it possible to bake all of the pieces separately and in the end of the process, it joins them together into one final texture? I would HATE to have to either bake each chunk individually or explode them by hand...
  • malcolm
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    malcolm Polycount Sponsor
    Hi guys, just wanted to say the copy paste changes everything, our workflow has become so much more efficient since the copy paste implementation. One of my most enjoyable parts of the day is working in Knald.

    I have a feature request, could Knald rotate normal maps, it would be awesome if I could paste a map from the clipboard, rotate it to an arbitrary value and then paste it back into Photoshop. I find I'm doing this all the time, the Photoshop action route is not elegant and only supports 90" rotations.
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