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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • EarthQuake
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    Hello, everyone,

    I hope this is the right place to post this. Here goes...

    I am new to video game modeling (and to this forum altogether...) and I`ve been trying to bake a normal map to a lowpoly surfboard I made. I used XNormal`s cage baking to do this. My question is regarding these artifacts in the planar surfaces of the board, like so...

    Cheers

    Bit depth issue: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135613
  • PedroJhiann
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    PedroJhiann polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks, Commador,

    Glad to know this is a known issue! Do you know where to change the bit depth in XNormal? I did the same baking in Modo and got the same result. I know I am using a 32-bit targa for the file so I guess this shouldn't be an issue, though. I will look for EQ's post on this as well.

    Again, Thanks!
  • PedroJhiann
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    PedroJhiann polycounter lvl 10
  • PedroJhiann
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    PedroJhiann polycounter lvl 10
    It worked, obviously! I have to tweak a few other issues but this time it's with the high-to-low baking itself, I'll show you guys when it's done.

    In the meantime, here is the rider of said board...

    frame0001.jpg
  • lordsme
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    lordsme polycounter lvl 8
    lordsme wrote: »
    Hi guys,
    how would you model the highlighted part of this grenade, for a hi-poly hard surface model with smooth-mesh-preview/ turbo-smooth/sub-d? (concept by Atomhawk)
    I mean, in order to get those nice insets (not in line with the cylinder "native" loops!), would you start with a poly cylinder with enough geom + extrusions or with a poly plane + edge extrusion + bend?
    I'm using Maya and I think I'd rather use the second technique: model the surface extruding plane edges, smooth if necessary and then bend it

    OK I've done it using the bend technique... here's the WIP.
    What do you think about? Could it be done with less geom or better loops?
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 8
    Shinigami wrote: »
    Anyone ?
    Manually place some edgeloops or subdivide once and then remove unnecessary edges
  • EarthQuake
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    Shin, create your low and try to bake it, then, and only then, if you have more problems, post asking for help. It seems like you're still confusing your highpoly cage mesh and your lowpoly in-game mesh, and worrying about theoretical problems rather than trying to solve a real issue. You don't bake a normal map from your high to your cage mesh, you bake it to a unique lowpoly mesh (though this mesh may in some cases be started from the cage mesh).

    The black lines you see are the result of bevels picking up lighting information from a different direction than the base surface. Not necessarily bad nor noticeable in many cases, but you can bevel the edge on the lowpoly to remove this issue if it is objectionable.
  • WarrenM
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    The cage ( to make the highpoly ) isnt supposed to be my low poly mesh! I always assumed so because most of the tuts showed so
    Really? Which tutorials? I don't think I've ever seen that. The closest I've seen is what EQ describes, where they start from the cage to generate the low poly but I don't think I've ever seen them just straight up use the cage.
  • WiredminiMike
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    I know this is a pretty basic shape but I am having some issues modelling these two parts of this flash light. Anyone one have any ideas?
    qMLtAd1.jpg
  • WarrenM
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    Can you show what you've tried so far?
  • WiredminiMike
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    Here are the wires I have so far. I'm having a problem with the border edge. Its creating some weird distortion.
    bNTrnR0.png
    jYXhdDE.png
  • Surfa
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    Surfa polycounter lvl 12
    IMHO I think you are trying to get a edge that is too sharp. Also you aren't allowing the smoothing to do some of the work for you and therefore are using more geo than required.

    I had a quick go although I accidentaled the centre part so it wasn't centred properly.
    IPntaR.jpg
  • Wintersun
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    Wintersun polycounter lvl 12
    You needed more sides for that cylinder.
    basically here's what I did.

    1. Created a cylinder and I knew there are 6 of those little (gap) details so the number of sides for the cylinder would have been 6x. but didn't know the "x" yet.
    2. Created a hemisphere with 8 segments, placed it right on the end of the top edge of the cylinder. modified it a bit so it matches those little details.
    3. started to increase the cylinder sides 6 by 6. started at 18 went up to 48 and that was the magic number.
    4. subtracted the hemisphere cleaned the topology.
    Here is the result.
    Wireofit.jpg

    TurbosmoothedOfit.jpg
  • Fogbrain
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    Fogbrain polycounter lvl 5
    1iKNymZ.jpg
    I have no clue how to begin modelling this bits traditionally in 3D, it doesn't help that I'm a bit of a noob in modo as well since I picked it up like 2 weeks ago.

    wxxgw3h.png

    Here's what I've made so far, the mirror shape was easy enough but these floral ornate pieces I just don't know where to begin and how to do it.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Baroque designs like that have a lot of repeating shapes, model those 8 flower buds that make up the curve by modeling one and duplicating, a lot of the detail is too small to worry about getting it perfect or to worry about baking errors or intersecting geometry, just do it rough and quick. Just make sure the silhouette is right.
  • supaclueless
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    supaclueless polycounter lvl 12
    If you want to achieve a perfectionist model, than you will more than likely need to sculpt the intricate details, but the base can be made as ZacD said
  • Fogbrain
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    Fogbrain polycounter lvl 5
    If you want to achieve a perfectionist model, than you will more than likely need to sculpt the intricate details, but the base can be made as ZacD said

    Yeah thats the only way I can picture doing those intricate details, it'd be way too time consuming to do traditionally.
    Baroque designs like that have a lot of repeating shapes, model those 8 flower buds that make up the curve by modeling one and duplicating, a lot of the detail is too small to worry about getting it perfect or to worry about baking errors or intersecting geometry, just do it rough and quick. Just make sure the silhouette is right.

    A relief that my thought process after several attempts seems in the right direction. Breaking it up and repeating the general shapes is the best way I can imagine going about such ornate designs. I'll have another go when I have free time and post progress. Thanks for the tips guys.
  • flowlife
  • Ahoburg
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    Hey guys. Having a problem with one particular type of mesh here in 3ds max and can't seem to wrap my head around it. Maybe some of you can help me?

    Basically, here I have a bracelet that is textured and modelled without a distortion. And it has an oval-like shape. I want to create one just like that, but no matter what I try (bend, pathdeform, you name it), I always end up with distorted/unproportional polys on one side, where it gets narrower. The original bracelet doesn't have that problem. Question is, how do I model a shape like that? It consists of 10 more or less identical parts (uv overlaps too) and it has an oval shape without it being distorted anywhere?

    Here's obj with the original bracelet.

    That's how it looks:

    gvi7MDv.png

    3tlnpkq.png

    ynhlHNp.png

    Here's how my attempt looks.

    k66X9fH.png

    UFuhzkc.png

    I'd appreciate any help. Also, if somebody knows how such things are textured, that'd be a great help too. Thanks.
  • throttlekitty
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    Ahoburg, this thread is dedicated to solving issues with subdivision modeling, the topology and edge flow, etc. Not so much for basic modeling techniques.

    That said, you're making this too complicated. Scale a cylinder inwards a bit, use Poke Face for the top/bottom ring, and scale those vertices out.
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    Need help on punching holes in this thing.

    8fW75AG.png
  • Oniram
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    Oniram polycounter lvl 17
    @cromadbomber for something like that id typically just boolean those holes right in and cleanup the geometry. the shape you have right now seems slightly too narrow, so id go ahead and widen it out a bit. here's a wireframe of something similar ive made.

    mlKxMd9.png
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    Thank you Oniram, that pretty much worked.
  • Ahoburg
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    perna wrote: »
    ahoburg: Just to second what throttlekitty is saying.

    Also, make a cylinder, FFD it into the shape you want. Set its height segments to 3. Convert to epoly, scale middle edge ring. Select upper and lower ring of polies, extrude by face, collapse selection, done, perfect result without any manual tweaking

    Thanks, guys. Yeah, looks like I really made it more complicated than it is. After everything I used Tape in max and apparently original bracelet's sides aren't that identical. Makes it easier.
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    Can anyone confirm this is working?
    Is there a more efficent way? I have tons of loops running around.
    atCyQne.png

    Ignore some of the shapes this was my first attempt just to get the general idea of this thing. Also there is a little N-gon but it is not causing any shading issues in the sub-d.
  • woot
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    woot polycounter lvl 5
    i did a SCAR quite recently, and did that part quite differently to you.

    MIvjHGL.png

    full+1.jpg

    you can see here that the middle button is stuck out quite a bit further, and the extursions around it slope down gradually.

    if you need any more help with it, just ask. my high poly is available to download in the giveaway thread in 3dp&p as well.
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    Thank you Perna for clearing that up for me, much appreciated. Woot thank you for the wires and I will also check your model. Much appreaciated guys.
  • joaosouza
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    joaosouza polycounter lvl 4
    Newbie here.
    Guys, what is the best approach to bend this shape that has cylindrical holes in it, withouth pinching occur ?
    I am losing my mind (and countless hours) with this.
    The modifiers bend and FFD doesn't get the job done.
    Pic showing my wires and what I need to do. The object is a handguard from the shotgun SPAS-12.

    R39ejgG.jpg
  • joaosouza
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    joaosouza polycounter lvl 4
    I think I got it using Shinigami's technique.
    ov4m7M6.jpg

    Thanks Perna and Shinigami for opening my eyes.
    This thread is pure gold.
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    This looks like a painfully slow way to model this holes. Why not start with something like this and open the holes by deleting the polygons.

    xR7rLvi.png
  • joaosouza
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    joaosouza polycounter lvl 4
    Yep, that's even better (and somewhat obvious, how I missed that lol). Thank you
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    Shinigami wrote: »
    Yea but since some edges are not evenly distrubuted tge holes are sized different.

    this is a quick model to demonstrate a method for punching holes faster,not intended to be perfect. Other than that your method will yield better shading but he hasn't exactly followed your approach at first place anyway. And I think it doesn't really worth the hassle.
  • dzibarik
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    dzibarik polycounter lvl 10
    Fogbrain wrote: »
    Yeah thats the only way I can picture doing those intricate details, it'd be way too time consuming to do traditionally.

    it depends on what you call time consuming. I'm a pretty inexperienced modeller but I did this in a day or so and I would have done it much faster if it wasn't for arch-viz purposes and if I had more experience.

    It's just basic strip modelling. Wires are from a WIP model.

    2014-07-2417-45-07fpf1v.png
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    here's my approach to this. Not the best way though.

    -get a quadball
    -flatten
    -delete loops and spherify
    -bevel center edges to get the shape
    -bevel related polys
    -add control loops
    -final spherify the outer polys
    -call it done

    wAjZxMJ.png
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    Shinigami wrote: »
    Lol does modo have a feature that will even the sides on a cylinder out? Does max has dis

    haven't used max for years but afaik there's a modifier named 'spherify' that makes things round.

    When modeling stuff like screw heads, most of times I start with a flattened quadball. Mostly it's a pretty good starting base for stuff like that, there was a tutorial about making a round screw head out of a quadball by a portugese guy back in time I think it's where I get this habit.
  • stealthx
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    stealthx polycounter lvl 10
    ribbon - GeoPoly or better script loop-regularizer
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] triangle
    how would you start modeling this rocketship? specifically the area where the baby is.
  • WarrenM
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    This thread works better if you attempt to model it yourself, show your work, and then people can critique what you've done and offer solutions.

    Just asking people to make stuff for you isn't likely to get a productive response.
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] triangle
    so far...

    i may delete the wings because i don't want to replicate the ship exactly.
  • g-pe
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    Hi Everyone

    I have a question on workflow for high poly modeling in Maya. Is smoothing or subdividing the last step in the process? I understand that keeping models low poly for the initial modeling stage helps with matching segments of intersecting forms and makes wholesale changes to the model easier...but should all details such as seems and panel joins be added in at this stage then subdivided. If so, then there is more to think about whilst modeling. On the flip side, If I block out all major planes on a model then subdivide, small details are much easier to add in without pinches but due to the density of the new mesh any modifications down the line would be a pain to make and may require going back to the low mesh, making those changes, re-subdividing and adding details all over. So, is it better to work everything out and keep as low poly as possible then add control loops and smooth, or start low poly,add control loops,subdivide and work up the model some, subdivide again and add final details?

    Sorry for the long post.
  • Jesse Moody
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    Jesse Moody polycounter lvl 17
    WarrenM wrote: »
    This thread works better if you attempt to model it yourself, show your work, and then people can critique what you've done and offer solutions.

    Just asking people to make stuff for you isn't likely to get a productive response.

    Couldn't have said it better myself. So many times through this thread there are people just saying I want to make this. Will you do it first and show me how.

    NO..

    Just try it first, fail, try again and see why, post your progress and have people help you then.

    How are you going to learn anything if you don't even attempt to try from the start.
  • supaclueless
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    supaclueless polycounter lvl 12
    From my experience, spherify is doing its best to "make it spherical" but not with the mindset of having each side equidistant.
  • Okt
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    Okt polycounter lvl 19
    From my experience, spherify is doing its best to "make it spherical" but not with the mindset of having each side equidistant.

    supaclueless, you're absolutely right, I find the best way to combat this is with a little bit of "Relax"...

    JRgqol1.gif
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    why not just start from a cylinder and work inwards? next time i start with a torus knot to model a cube o_O

    also there is a circle loop function, space loops might also help with certain tasks
  • Noors
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    Noors greentooth
    Real pros start from a teapot.
  • ghaztehschmexeh
    Noors wrote: »
    Real pros start from a teapot.

    You do not defile the teapot primitive. It is a sacred form. To change it in any way would be sacrilege.
  • supaclueless
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    supaclueless polycounter lvl 12
    i always thought it was the dragon primitive that everyone starts their hard surface with....because that's my ONLY rule for subd
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] triangle
    how can i cut this model to remove the flattened area?
  • timotronprime
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    timotronprime polycounter lvl 11
    Intersecting cylinders are found pretty early in the thread.

    The red faces you have are on a flat plane and will not deform into a smooth cylinder like the green edge loop.
    http://i.imgur.com/XyKOL4P.png

    It doesn't look like your larger cylinder has enough edge loops to support its own curvature as well as the topology of the smaller intersecting cylinders.
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] triangle
    Thanks.I'll look back in the thread for the discussion.
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