Andreas, if you wish to provide factual references to support your claims I would be happy to take you seriously. Otherwise, what you contribute is nothing but conjecture.
Right back atcha, where is the link to where Adobe are explicitly saying 'have at it?'
You have heard wrong! Adobe is absolutely not providing free copies of CS2!
What is true is that Adobe is terminating the activation servers for CS2 and that for existing licensed users of CS2 who need to reinstall their software, copies of CS2 that don't require activation but do require valid serial numbers are available. (Special serial numbers are provided on the page for each product download.) See <http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1114930>.
You are only legally entitled to download and install with that serial number if you have a valid license to the product!
- Dov
so yeah, of course you can download it from them and even use it, or even use it for work - but it doesn't make it a free legit license for everyone.
Adobe released the download links and the serials, you can easily notice that they are in their own website, not some warez site, so this is LEGAL. If they meant to release those software only for actual costumers of the CS2 Creative Suite, they could have sent by mail a notification to them that in their account they will find the download link and the serial number, or something like that, if you don't want to download them, fine, I'm downloading them all.
so yeah, of course you can download it from them and even use it, or even use it for work - but it doesn't make it a free legit license for everyone.
But the problem is how do they verrify a legit user from a non-legit user? They removed that level of security from their product. If they can't be bothered to pass out specific timed links and specific keys to people who contact them, then they aren't interested in protecting their product?
Lazy? Apathetic? or just incompetent? Not good options to pick from I'm afraid. Someone got paid a lot of money to flush a lot of it down the toilet and the opportunities to turn this around into a money making endeavor are quickly evaporating. I hope their new business model takes off for them, because they just killed their old way of making money.
I hope their new business model takes off for them, because they just killed their old way of making money.
Did they though? You can't upgrade from CS2 and basically you're locked at that version forever. It may work for a lot of people but anyone interested in getting free Photoshop probably had a warez version anyway.
I still say it's a stealth marketing tactic that they won't admit to. Give people an old version, get them hooked, and then when they're ready they will subscribe to the new service to get the latest version. That's a win. Or if they sit at CS2 for the rest of their lives, well, that person wasn't interested in giving Adobe money anyway so there's no real loss there.
That serial number is a special sequence of digits used to identify targets of corporate assassination. Keep that in mind when the Adobe ninjas come bursting through your computer monitors. First comes the purge.
Ahem. If you would have a gander at the quote Neox just posted, that pretty much proves you wrong. They've gone and said that no, CS2 has not been freely released for people that never paid for it.
The only part of your post that makes any sense, and I fully agree with you on this. :poly124:
(By the way, you are on a game art forum, stating that people who make a product with the purpose of making money from it once finished, are acting entitled? Hmm.)
You're oversimplifying. I'm saying it's entitlement to expect the whole of society to bend to a single business model (especially since the majority don't agree with it) when its quite clearly disjointed with reality. You see, art is a service industry that has fooled itself into thinking it's a product industry because up until the information age, we needed physical media to store and distribute the works. The internet has dispelled that illusion and shown us that the only product was the material it was recorded on. The whole idea of it all is to force art to be something that it is not. Art is communication, not an object to be owned, but a subject of the mind. It's important to point that out. The portion of art that exists in our minds and our computers' storage is not an item to be held in ownership, but a thought to be transmitted. I think it's entitlement to demand society do it the way a minority demands when it is perfectly feasible to do it many other ways.
The creation of all art is a service that the artist sells to his audience, patron, whatever. The fruits of the service can easily be had, regardless of legality. We know that because we can look at the file sharing networks, but services cannot be taken without contract and once in contract, compensation is impossible for the patron to escape without arbitration. My point is, the product model is an insecure market for content, demonstrated by file sharing. The service model is better. In the service model, file sharing becomes irrelevant. When you accept that, you realize it was waste of resources fighting file sharing. You can now ignore it or even leverage it as a marketing tool.
Don't think I'm trying to disparage anyone. I'm not. I don't think they're undeserving. I just don't agree with imposing rules that are contrary to reality. Ten years ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly, but I've learned too much and I can't turn a blind eye it. If you still disagree, then perhaps I'm a poor debater or I'm not very persuasive, but this is all I will say on the matter for fear that it will turn into a flame war.
Adobe released the download links and the serials, you can easily notice that they are in their own website, not some warez site, so this is LEGAL. If they meant to release those software only for actual costumers of the CS2 Creative Suite, they could have sent by mail a notification to them that in their account they will find the download link and the serial number, or something like that, if you don't want to download them, fine, I'm downloading them all.
Because an employee or series of employees made a MISTAKE means that the company owes you JACK SHIT, as you were not in a binding agreement beforehand anyways. If a graphics card turns up on DELL for 5 bucks and it's obviously a mistake, sometimes they honor that mistake, sometimes they tell you to **** off (especially when you try to buy 30 of 'em, I've found). They are not contractually obliged to give you that order. Nothing here is LEGAL. The power is in Adobes hand, not anyone elses. It's their I.P.
Adobe has explicitly said that NO, they have not released this for general use by everyone and that no payment is needed. Like, they've been amazingly clear about it. Why they don't tear down the page, boggles my fucking mind, but I'm sure they have some rationale. Personally I think they should have come out and said 'fine, have at it' but they explicitly and deliberately did the opposite.
Why they don't tear down the page, boggles my fucking mind, but I'm sure they have some rationale. Personally I think they should have come out and said 'fine, have at it' but they explicitly and deliberately did the opposite.
When Dov Isaac's post was made the page was taken down. The only way to access the software and keys was via other websites with the keys and direct links to adobes website.
When the official executive statement came in the form of that blog/support post, the page with all the keys went right back online and moreover it was no longer protected by an Adobe login ID.
I don't see why anyone could possibly think this is some sort of covert marketing. This is nothing but bad news for Adobe because the sad fact is that Photoshop has really not come very far since CS2 so there is little reason to upgrade aside from going to a 64bit version.
because the sad fact is that Photoshop has really not come very far since CS2 so there is little reason to upgrade aside from going to a 64bit version.
Ah well not sure if I'd say that now, I'm sure they've come up with at least a handful of new features that please everybody since CS2... what in your opinion do you find Photoshop lacking?
Actually it's you and Sonic who seem to have some skewed view of the realities of this situation.
Because an employee or series of employees made a MISTAKE means that the company owes you JACK SHIT, as you were not in a binding agreement beforehand anyways. If a graphics card turns up on DELL for 5 bucks and it's obviously a mistake, sometimes they honor that mistake, sometimes they tell you to **** off (especially when you try to buy 30 of 'em, I've found). They are not contractually obliged to give you that order. Nothing here is LEGAL. The power is in Adobes hand, not anyone elses. It's their I.P.
Adobe has explicitly said that NO, they have not released this for general use by everyone and that no payment is needed. Like, they've been amazingly clear about it. Why they don't tear down the page, boggles my fucking mind, but I'm sure they have some rationale. Personally I think they should have come out and said 'fine, have at it' but they explicitly and deliberately did the opposite.
Actually, according to copyright law, it is perfectly legal. The copyright holder has the right to chose what terms under which they will distribute their works to the public. By their actions, in this case, they have chosen to make it available for free, regardless of their wishes to the contrary. They have distributed the works without requirements for their access. Therefore they have implicitly given permission to download the software under the terms of the software license included in each software package. Making it available undermines any chance of claiming infringement besides a breach of the included license, which is damned unlikely to be enforceable or even detectable.
By their actions, in this case, they have chosen to make it available for free, regardless of their wishes to the contrary.
So, because Studio XXX weren't able to make XXX un-crackable, I can go right on ahead and steal that. I'm entitled to it, I see it right there on pirate bay. It's legal. K, I'll get right on that.
Adobe have come RIGHT OUT and said 'NO, it is ONLY for people who have bought CS2 previously'. Like, really clearly. Until they do otherwise, which I really hope they do, this is not a free, legitimate release. That's all I'm saying. If you want to download it, fire away. But there is literally no point. Might as well go to piratebay and grab CS6 if that's your bend. Same exact thing. This is not the same as when Unity gave away free licences for certain platforms. That was a deliberate offer. This was a mistake, made on the part of some very fired fools.
Actually it's you and Sonic who seem to have some skewed view of the realities of this situation.
Because an employee or series of employees made a MISTAKE means that the company owes you JACK SHIT, as you were not in a binding agreement beforehand anyways. If a graphics card turns up on DELL for 5 bucks and it's obviously a mistake, sometimes they honor that mistake, sometimes they tell you to **** off (especially when you try to buy 30 of 'em, I've found). They are not contractually obliged to give you that order. Nothing here is LEGAL. The power is in Adobes hand, not anyone elses. It's their I.P.
Adobe has explicitly said that NO, they have not released this for general use by everyone and that no payment is needed. Like, they've been amazingly clear about it. Why they don't tear down the page, boggles my fucking mind, but I'm sure they have some rationale. Personally I think they should have come out and said 'fine, have at it' but they explicitly and deliberately did the opposite.
Yes, and what they did? Make them available to all the people, not only those who have an Adobe ID. Why I have no rights to download them? If I don't download them other people will do, 1 less download doesn't make any difference, and why I have to watch other download this for free (yeah they provide the installer clearly downloadable along with their respectively serials). Is not like you are in a store and the merchant goes in the back of the shop letting you alone with all the merchandise that you can stole if you want, because no one is watching you. We are stealing nothing, and the example of the unlimited apples fit very well,it's Adobe that put outside the unlimited apple barrel, is not like that you are accessing to a mysterious protected area of the Adobe website by some hacks. What if I downloaded and use them but without telling it to anyone? Anyway, where can I return the downloaded software to Adobe?
Ah well not sure if I'd say that now, I'm sure they've come up with at least a handful of new features that please everybody since CS2... what in your opinion do you find Photoshop lacking?
Allow individual pressure curves to be assigned to each brush element
Lazy mouse options.
An image hose.
Symmetrical editing
An option for continuous opacity buildup.
Almost all of these are features every other digital painting application has had since CS2 or earlier and features photoshop still does not have a decade later.
Adobe is good at delivering on the cutting edge of their features. The problem is it often results in features that are of limited use because of either crippling performance issues or the fact that they're designed to address problems that are only significant if you have to do a lot of the same type of work (content aware filters)
So, because Studio XXX weren't able to make XXX un-crackable, I can go right on ahead and steal that. I'm entitled to it, I see it right there on pirate bay. It's legal. K, I'll get right on that.
Adobe have come RIGHT OUT and said 'NO, it is ONLY for people who have bought CS2 previously'. Like, really clearly. Until they do otherwise, which I really hope they do, this is not a free, legitimate release. That's all I'm saying. If you want to download it, fire away. But there is literally no point. Might as well go to piratebay and grab CS6 if that's your bend. Same exact thing. This is not the same as when Unity gave away free licences for certain platforms. That was a deliberate offer. This was a mistake, made on the part of some very fired fools.
You have a twisted take on things. This isn't like going to TPB and downloading a cracked piece of software, this is directly from the rights holder. What they say and what they do are two different things. As far as the law is concerned, nothing illegal is going on here. Adobe is making it available, as per their right. What they say to the contrary is irrelevant. Copyright law doesn't pertain to what you want, it pertains to what you do. The action has more weight in the eyes of the law than the words. If you give people access to works without terms, copyright law is satisfied because copyright allows the rights holder to chose how they may distribute works. That isn't to say they can't go after these people later and sue for damages. If they never do lodge a suit, then as far as law goes, they have given permission to download and use the software. They can talk all day about how they intended this or that, but the proof is in the pudding.
Are people really so hard up for a photoshop install and so morally conflicted by piracy that they'd be this excited by a grey area? 'Oh, but the law says!'
Legality aside, you're downloading software that Adobe didn't expressly want you to have, and the net result is exactly the same as that of piracy; Namely that if you were planning to buy photoshop and this option persuaded you otherwise it's a lost sale, otherwise it's a copy of the program being used by someone who wasn't ever planning on buying it.
If you're okay with that, I do wonder why you wouldn't be okay with downloading it from a different url?
Adobe have never been exceptionally hard on piracy (presumably to make it the no-brainer choice for companies once the amateurs move up to pro), and this seems like an extension of that.
From another adobe staff member, in the same thread that Dov Isaacs made his famous statement:
I don't think you have to worry about Adobe coming after you for this, union_bug.
As soon as our execs have approved an official statement on this issue, I or another Adobe staffer will post it here.
From Terri Stone, Adobe Community Manager.
If anyone has the position to make a statement, she has it.
Her statement comes after Dov's her statement, as such it takes precedences as it is the latest piece of information.
Further more, a forum posting such as Dovs doesn't have legal standing, in this case, only the license agreement does, and as there were no agreements brought forward before reaching the download page, the accompanied license agreement is in effect. As perna states.
Further more, they stated the delivered these serials "directly" to the affected customers, infact, it wasn't direct to just those customers, but to anyone with an adobeID initially, and now, to anyone who has a web browser.
PS, no further statement has appeared in that thread from Terri, so that can be taken that Adobe hasn't released a final statement regarding this.
Are people really so hard up for a photoshop install and so morally conflicted by piracy that they'd be this excited by a grey area? 'Oh, but the law says!'
Legality aside, you're downloading software that Adobe didn't expressly want you to have, and the net result is exactly the same as that of piracy; Namely that if you were planning to buy photoshop and this option persuaded you otherwise it's a lost sale, otherwise it's a copy of the program being used by someone who wasn't ever planning on buying it.
If you're okay with that, I do wonder why you wouldn't be okay with downloading it from a different url?
Adobe have never been exceptionally hard on piracy (presumably to make it the no-brainer choice for companies once the amateurs move up to pro), and this seems like an extension of that.
I own copies of Acrobat 8 pro, Audition 3.0, CS2, and even CS4, which is arguably superior. I'm actually legally permitted to download those files. I have no moral conflict. I'm not trying to make myself feel okay with downloading that software. I already paid for it.
I'm just stating that people are voicing misplaced anger about how they think it should be and ignoring how situation really is. Unless Adobe desires to pursue the downloaders, they have granted implicit permission to access these files. End of story.
If they took down the downloads/serial keys it'd be one thing, but they made it even less hassle to get to them than it was yesterday. They're just sitting there in the open right now with less hoops to jump through to get than the Flash Player.
If Adobe is going to have free downloads with serial keys on their site, you can't really shame people for taking advantage of it. It's like that Louis CK bit about being a bad guy: "I'm not a good guy... I mean, I don't hurt any body, but I don't help either. Like, this is sort of the level; If I see a woman in a skirt, I'm not gonna look up her skirt, but if she gets sloppy, I'm there. That's where I'm at."
Personally, I think it'll be good for Adobe long term anyway, since it's getting more people using their stuff.
It's like that Louis CK bit about being a bad guy: "I'm not a good guy... I mean, I don't hurt any body, but I don't help either. Like, this is sort of the level; If I see a woman in a skirt, I'm not gonna look up her skirt, but if she gets sloppy, I'm there. That's where I'm at."
This is actually turning into a fun little social experiment. The question is no longer really, "Can you?" It's, "Will you?" Think about it.
1. Adobe put up the installers AND the serials
2. Word gets around that Adobe is giving away some software
3. Dov Isaacs goes on the forum, but technically off the record, and vehemently denies this.
4. Terri Stone then comes on and says that Adobe won't come after downloaders. Keep in mind that she was the person redacting inaccurate information from the thread.
5. Adobe's anonymous Community Admin then releases an official and quite ambiguous statement that explains, but doesn't really clarify the situation.
6. Adobe goes silent and everything stays online.
Adobe has removed the biggest hurdles and hazards of actual piracy with what they've done here.
1. They've put it on their site and with no security, making it far more official than a rip you'd find on TPB.
2. They literally give you the serial number and activation free version. No virus filled keygens. No fear of it calling home.
3. They then tell you that you won't get chased down for downloading it, removing the mortal fear of being butt-humped in prison.
The official statement is a work of art. I particularly love that last line:
"While this might be interpreted as Adobe giving away software for free, we did it to help our customers."
Isn't that lovely? So many words to say so little. It doesn't say that you can't download this stuff, but it also doesn't say that you can. All it says is how it might be interpreted. I love that. I might be interpreted as being a guy, which I coincidentally am. My sister might be interpreted as being a guy, which she is clearly not. Ambiguity at its finest.
My reading of that statement is:
"This is why we initially put CS2 online, but you're going to interpret however you want." Leaving it all online without any further security, clarification, or modification is the final "Enjoy!"
Adobe is a large multi-national corporation. Corporations are deliberate, even in the handling of their mistakes. Keeping CS online is no accident. Keeping this situation vague is no accident.
Adobe f***ed up and is now just rolling with the punches.... corporate style.
the same way turning your back is implicitly giving people permission to steal your stuff.
To complete your analogy, it's like turning your back and having people steal your stuff. Then you turn around see them taking it, and... you just shrug your shoulders and walk away.
That's more like the implicit permission people are talking about. <_<
To complete your analogy, it's like turning your back and having people steal your stuff. Then you turn around see them taking it, and... you just shrug your shoulders and walk away.
That's more like the implicit permission people are talking about. <_<
Until Mogo's post I wasn't aware they'd continued to host the serials and links publicly (following their forum statement)
Until Mogo's post I wasn't aware they'd continued to host the serials and links publicly, following their forum statement.
Yep. Same exact page as yesterday. The links all still work and everything.
If Adobe really wanted to restrict this to some people then they wouldn't make it available to all people. You really can't argue that point. If I wanted everybody I met to freely enter my apartment then I'd give them all keys. In reality, I only give some people keys because I only want some people to have free access.
Those Adobe Acrobats have been training hart to become Adobe ninjas for times just like these. I don't think that the people at Adobe care at all about how many people their ninjas have to lay sweet vengeance upon. That's why they are so nonchalant about the whole thing. Ninjas just don't care, they flip out instead.
Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that. Go back to the facts.
1. While Dov Isaacs said "no", he doesn't represent the will of the executives or the marketing team. He's the Principal Scientist and nothing more.
2. Terri Stone, after Isaacs, contradicted him by saying that Adobe wasn't going to chase anybody.
3. The only official statement from Adobe did nothing more than say what they wanted to happen and what actually ended up happening. It did not do anything do dissuade people from that new notion.
4. Backing up the new status quo and lending credence to the "free" idea, Adobe kept everything online as-is. Installers? Still up. Serials? Still up. The generic "take me" page with no disclaimer? Still up. The absence of validation? Still in effect.
Look. Here's what I think. Adobe royally messed up. I have ZERO doubt that they initially meant it for registered users only. I totally believe that. Unfortunately, somebody screwed up. It went public. It went viral. Adobe got put in the position of having to accept the consequences of that error, but not willing to accept the blame.
Adobe has to accept this. They have to. It's not like we're talking about 10 or 11 people downloading this thing. We're potentially talking about thousands - worldwide. Do you really think that Adobe can ignore that? You can't put the genie back into the bottle after something like that.
Adobe probably can't officially endorse it, but they can't stop it either. And they can't call it stealing because it was their mistake and people just innocently capitialized. Some sites have caught on to Adobe's error and retconned their news blurbs. Some haven't. The web media is STILL promoting this as "CS2 for free". How many of you downloaded and installed CS2 when you thought that it was free? No way is Adobe going to demonize these people and call them thieves. It makes no sense.
they can't call it stealing because it was their mistake and people just innocently capitialized.
no need to call it stealing ... noone cares for anyone having an activated copy for fooling around. you might still run into legal issues using it commercially.
by that logic every theft would be legal, if possible... just because someone puts his oranges in boxes on the street infront of his shop, doesnt mean youre ment to take as much as you want for free, just because you can.
as i see it, its pretty much a pirated license if it comes to commercial work, untill adobe clearly says its not.
Are people really so hard up for a photoshop install and so morally conflicted by piracy that they'd be this excited by a grey area? 'Oh, but the law says!'
Legality aside, you're downloading software that Adobe didn't expressly want you to have, and the net result is exactly the same as that of piracy; Namely that if you were planning to buy photoshop and this option persuaded you otherwise it's a lost sale, otherwise it's a copy of the program being used by someone who wasn't ever planning on buying it.
If you're okay with that, I do wonder why you wouldn't be okay with downloading it from a different url?
Those Adobe Acrobats have been training hart to become Adobe ninjas for times just like these. I don't think that the people at Adobe care at all about how many people their ninjas have to lay sweet vengeance upon. That's why they are so nonchalant about the whole thing. Ninjas just don't care, they flip out instead.
Got anything actually valid to add? Not sure what you think you are adding to the discussion with facetious bullshit.
as i see it, its pretty much a pirated license if it comes to commercial work, untill adobe clearly says its not.
I think the same.
And furthermore, if someone is using a pirated version of cs6, downloading this "cs2" is pointless. Anyone think the serial code they provided gives you a commercial license? i highly doubt it!
I have been using cs3 for years, and i needed to update to cs5 due the constant crashes of photoshop under Vista and later in 7... (Cs6 comes with an autosave/autobackup option and offer better perfomance than Cs5).
Got anything actually valid to add? Not sure what you think you are adding to the discussion with facetious bullshit.
I think I made a very valid statement. And you know what, I don't care whether you see it as is being valid or not. Btw, don't be calling me out like that when I haven't said anything disrespectful to you or anyone else. It's just tacky.
Those Adobe Acrobats have been training hart to become Adobe ninjas for times just like these. I don't think that the people at Adobe care at all about how many people their ninjas have to lay sweet vengeance upon. That's why they are so nonchalant about the whole thing. Ninjas just don't care, they flip out instead.
The more I read about this on Adobe's forums, the more clear it becomes that Adobe isn't going to flip and that this stuff is all probably free now. I'm like 95% confident that Adobe is just eating their mistake now.
For one, Adobe removed that AdobeID requirement. You don't even need to be an Adobe.com member anymore. Absolutely anybody can download it now. That's a fairly big thing. Second, and this is interesting, while Adobe staffers are quick to admit that anybody can download it, they clam up when people ask if it's free. Dead silence. They're not even correcting people on that notion anymore. In the past 2 days, highly active staffers like Jeff Wright have gone spouting from the party line of how you'll "want to have a valid license" to selective mutism. It's almost like the official position is no position.
I'm not saying that it's free, but it does look like Adobe has quietly given up. Probably too much effort and expense to correct the mistake. Not even almighty Adobe has a time machine.
I second the notion that this is an effort by Adobe to curve piracy of their products. They've already made similar moves like Creative Cloud which makes their software MUCH more affordable on a monthly basis, though in most cases buying the box every year with a discount from the previous version will be cheaper.
I'm also not surprised they're not advertising this on their site. They are of course a business and the focus needs to be on their latest product. They're not exactly asking you to hack for it either though. If they didn't want it up, they can take it down or remove access permissions from the appropriate directories.
CS2 is about eight years old now. On the surface it may look similar to CS6, but the more advanced features are well... eight years ahead. You also wont get a discount on any of the new software by having a registered copy of CS2. (I think you can still get one with CS3)
All in all I say good for them for trying something new and it's great for hobbyists. I just hope it doesn't harm the open source community because that's matured quite a bit in the last eight years as well.
Replies
Right back atcha, where is the link to where Adobe are explicitly saying 'have at it?'
Show me where they did this.
so yeah, of course you can download it from them and even use it, or even use it for work - but it doesn't make it a free legit license for everyone.
Lazy? Apathetic? or just incompetent? Not good options to pick from I'm afraid. Someone got paid a lot of money to flush a lot of it down the toilet and the opportunities to turn this around into a money making endeavor are quickly evaporating. I hope their new business model takes off for them, because they just killed their old way of making money.
I still say it's a stealth marketing tactic that they won't admit to. Give people an old version, get them hooked, and then when they're ready they will subscribe to the new service to get the latest version. That's a win. Or if they sit at CS2 for the rest of their lives, well, that person wasn't interested in giving Adobe money anyway so there's no real loss there.
Ahem. If you would have a gander at the quote Neox just posted, that pretty much proves you wrong. They've gone and said that no, CS2 has not been freely released for people that never paid for it.
And 9/11 was TOTALLY an inside job AMIRITE??
You're oversimplifying. I'm saying it's entitlement to expect the whole of society to bend to a single business model (especially since the majority don't agree with it) when its quite clearly disjointed with reality. You see, art is a service industry that has fooled itself into thinking it's a product industry because up until the information age, we needed physical media to store and distribute the works. The internet has dispelled that illusion and shown us that the only product was the material it was recorded on. The whole idea of it all is to force art to be something that it is not. Art is communication, not an object to be owned, but a subject of the mind. It's important to point that out. The portion of art that exists in our minds and our computers' storage is not an item to be held in ownership, but a thought to be transmitted. I think it's entitlement to demand society do it the way a minority demands when it is perfectly feasible to do it many other ways.
The creation of all art is a service that the artist sells to his audience, patron, whatever. The fruits of the service can easily be had, regardless of legality. We know that because we can look at the file sharing networks, but services cannot be taken without contract and once in contract, compensation is impossible for the patron to escape without arbitration. My point is, the product model is an insecure market for content, demonstrated by file sharing. The service model is better. In the service model, file sharing becomes irrelevant. When you accept that, you realize it was waste of resources fighting file sharing. You can now ignore it or even leverage it as a marketing tool.
Don't think I'm trying to disparage anyone. I'm not. I don't think they're undeserving. I just don't agree with imposing rules that are contrary to reality. Ten years ago I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly, but I've learned too much and I can't turn a blind eye it. If you still disagree, then perhaps I'm a poor debater or I'm not very persuasive, but this is all I will say on the matter for fear that it will turn into a flame war.
Actually it's you and Sonic who seem to have some skewed view of the realities of this situation.
Because an employee or series of employees made a MISTAKE means that the company owes you JACK SHIT, as you were not in a binding agreement beforehand anyways. If a graphics card turns up on DELL for 5 bucks and it's obviously a mistake, sometimes they honor that mistake, sometimes they tell you to **** off (especially when you try to buy 30 of 'em, I've found). They are not contractually obliged to give you that order. Nothing here is LEGAL. The power is in Adobes hand, not anyone elses. It's their I.P.
Adobe has explicitly said that NO, they have not released this for general use by everyone and that no payment is needed. Like, they've been amazingly clear about it. Why they don't tear down the page, boggles my fucking mind, but I'm sure they have some rationale. Personally I think they should have come out and said 'fine, have at it' but they explicitly and deliberately did the opposite.
When the official executive statement came in the form of that blog/support post, the page with all the keys went right back online and moreover it was no longer protected by an Adobe login ID.
I don't see why anyone could possibly think this is some sort of covert marketing. This is nothing but bad news for Adobe because the sad fact is that Photoshop has really not come very far since CS2 so there is little reason to upgrade aside from going to a 64bit version.
Ah well not sure if I'd say that now, I'm sure they've come up with at least a handful of new features that please everybody since CS2... what in your opinion do you find Photoshop lacking?
Actually, according to copyright law, it is perfectly legal. The copyright holder has the right to chose what terms under which they will distribute their works to the public. By their actions, in this case, they have chosen to make it available for free, regardless of their wishes to the contrary. They have distributed the works without requirements for their access. Therefore they have implicitly given permission to download the software under the terms of the software license included in each software package. Making it available undermines any chance of claiming infringement besides a breach of the included license, which is damned unlikely to be enforceable or even detectable.
So, because Studio XXX weren't able to make XXX un-crackable, I can go right on ahead and steal that. I'm entitled to it, I see it right there on pirate bay. It's legal. K, I'll get right on that.
Adobe have come RIGHT OUT and said 'NO, it is ONLY for people who have bought CS2 previously'. Like, really clearly. Until they do otherwise, which I really hope they do, this is not a free, legitimate release. That's all I'm saying. If you want to download it, fire away. But there is literally no point. Might as well go to piratebay and grab CS6 if that's your bend. Same exact thing. This is not the same as when Unity gave away free licences for certain platforms. That was a deliberate offer. This was a mistake, made on the part of some very fired fools.
Yes, and what they did? Make them available to all the people, not only those who have an Adobe ID. Why I have no rights to download them? If I don't download them other people will do, 1 less download doesn't make any difference, and why I have to watch other download this for free (yeah they provide the installer clearly downloadable along with their respectively serials). Is not like you are in a store and the merchant goes in the back of the shop letting you alone with all the merchandise that you can stole if you want, because no one is watching you. We are stealing nothing, and the example of the unlimited apples fit very well,it's Adobe that put outside the unlimited apple barrel, is not like that you are accessing to a mysterious protected area of the Adobe website by some hacks. What if I downloaded and use them but without telling it to anyone? Anyway, where can I return the downloaded software to Adobe?
Lazy mouse options.
An image hose.
Symmetrical editing
An option for continuous opacity buildup.
Almost all of these are features every other digital painting application has had since CS2 or earlier and features photoshop still does not have a decade later.
Adobe is good at delivering on the cutting edge of their features. The problem is it often results in features that are of limited use because of either crippling performance issues or the fact that they're designed to address problems that are only significant if you have to do a lot of the same type of work (content aware filters)
You have a twisted take on things. This isn't like going to TPB and downloading a cracked piece of software, this is directly from the rights holder. What they say and what they do are two different things. As far as the law is concerned, nothing illegal is going on here. Adobe is making it available, as per their right. What they say to the contrary is irrelevant. Copyright law doesn't pertain to what you want, it pertains to what you do. The action has more weight in the eyes of the law than the words. If you give people access to works without terms, copyright law is satisfied because copyright allows the rights holder to chose how they may distribute works. That isn't to say they can't go after these people later and sue for damages. If they never do lodge a suit, then as far as law goes, they have given permission to download and use the software. They can talk all day about how they intended this or that, but the proof is in the pudding.
Legality aside, you're downloading software that Adobe didn't expressly want you to have, and the net result is exactly the same as that of piracy; Namely that if you were planning to buy photoshop and this option persuaded you otherwise it's a lost sale, otherwise it's a copy of the program being used by someone who wasn't ever planning on buying it.
If you're okay with that, I do wonder why you wouldn't be okay with downloading it from a different url?
Adobe have never been exceptionally hard on piracy (presumably to make it the no-brainer choice for companies once the amateurs move up to pro), and this seems like an extension of that.
From another adobe staff member, in the same thread that Dov Isaacs made his famous statement:
From Terri Stone, Adobe Community Manager.
If anyone has the position to make a statement, she has it.
Her statement comes after Dov's her statement, as such it takes precedences as it is the latest piece of information.
Further more, a forum posting such as Dovs doesn't have legal standing, in this case, only the license agreement does, and as there were no agreements brought forward before reaching the download page, the accompanied license agreement is in effect. As perna states.
Further more, they stated the delivered these serials "directly" to the affected customers, infact, it wasn't direct to just those customers, but to anyone with an adobeID initially, and now, to anyone who has a web browser.
PS, no further statement has appeared in that thread from Terri, so that can be taken that Adobe hasn't released a final statement regarding this.
I own copies of Acrobat 8 pro, Audition 3.0, CS2, and even CS4, which is arguably superior. I'm actually legally permitted to download those files. I have no moral conflict. I'm not trying to make myself feel okay with downloading that software. I already paid for it.
I'm just stating that people are voicing misplaced anger about how they think it should be and ignoring how situation really is. Unless Adobe desires to pursue the downloaders, they have granted implicit permission to access these files. End of story.
the same way turning your back is implicitly giving people permission to steal your stuff.
If Adobe is going to have free downloads with serial keys on their site, you can't really shame people for taking advantage of it. It's like that Louis CK bit about being a bad guy: "I'm not a good guy... I mean, I don't hurt any body, but I don't help either. Like, this is sort of the level; If I see a woman in a skirt, I'm not gonna look up her skirt, but if she gets sloppy, I'm there. That's where I'm at."
Personally, I think it'll be good for Adobe long term anyway, since it's getting more people using their stuff.
This.
I can see I'm not going to find any rational debate here. If all you can say is the same old tired moral fallacy. I think I'll bow out.
1. Adobe put up the installers AND the serials
2. Word gets around that Adobe is giving away some software
3. Dov Isaacs goes on the forum, but technically off the record, and vehemently denies this.
4. Terri Stone then comes on and says that Adobe won't come after downloaders. Keep in mind that she was the person redacting inaccurate information from the thread.
5. Adobe's anonymous Community Admin then releases an official and quite ambiguous statement that explains, but doesn't really clarify the situation.
6. Adobe goes silent and everything stays online.
Adobe has removed the biggest hurdles and hazards of actual piracy with what they've done here.
1. They've put it on their site and with no security, making it far more official than a rip you'd find on TPB.
2. They literally give you the serial number and activation free version. No virus filled keygens. No fear of it calling home.
3. They then tell you that you won't get chased down for downloading it, removing the mortal fear of being butt-humped in prison.
The official statement is a work of art. I particularly love that last line:
"While this might be interpreted as Adobe giving away software for free, we did it to help our customers."
Isn't that lovely? So many words to say so little. It doesn't say that you can't download this stuff, but it also doesn't say that you can. All it says is how it might be interpreted. I love that. I might be interpreted as being a guy, which I coincidentally am. My sister might be interpreted as being a guy, which she is clearly not. Ambiguity at its finest.
My reading of that statement is:
"This is why we initially put CS2 online, but you're going to interpret however you want." Leaving it all online without any further security, clarification, or modification is the final "Enjoy!"
Adobe is a large multi-national corporation. Corporations are deliberate, even in the handling of their mistakes. Keeping CS online is no accident. Keeping this situation vague is no accident.
Adobe f***ed up and is now just rolling with the punches.... corporate style.
That's more like the implicit permission people are talking about. <_<
Until Mogo's post I wasn't aware they'd continued to host the serials and links publicly (following their forum statement)
More like inviting people to come steal your stuff then turning your back.
If Adobe really wanted to restrict this to some people then they wouldn't make it available to all people. You really can't argue that point. If I wanted everybody I met to freely enter my apartment then I'd give them all keys. In reality, I only give some people keys because I only want some people to have free access.
1. While Dov Isaacs said "no", he doesn't represent the will of the executives or the marketing team. He's the Principal Scientist and nothing more.
2. Terri Stone, after Isaacs, contradicted him by saying that Adobe wasn't going to chase anybody.
3. The only official statement from Adobe did nothing more than say what they wanted to happen and what actually ended up happening. It did not do anything do dissuade people from that new notion.
4. Backing up the new status quo and lending credence to the "free" idea, Adobe kept everything online as-is. Installers? Still up. Serials? Still up. The generic "take me" page with no disclaimer? Still up. The absence of validation? Still in effect.
Look. Here's what I think. Adobe royally messed up. I have ZERO doubt that they initially meant it for registered users only. I totally believe that. Unfortunately, somebody screwed up. It went public. It went viral. Adobe got put in the position of having to accept the consequences of that error, but not willing to accept the blame.
Adobe has to accept this. They have to. It's not like we're talking about 10 or 11 people downloading this thing. We're potentially talking about thousands - worldwide. Do you really think that Adobe can ignore that? You can't put the genie back into the bottle after something like that.
Adobe probably can't officially endorse it, but they can't stop it either. And they can't call it stealing because it was their mistake and people just innocently capitialized. Some sites have caught on to Adobe's error and retconned their news blurbs. Some haven't. The web media is STILL promoting this as "CS2 for free". How many of you downloaded and installed CS2 when you thought that it was free? No way is Adobe going to demonize these people and call them thieves. It makes no sense.
no need to call it stealing ... noone cares for anyone having an activated copy for fooling around. you might still run into legal issues using it commercially.
by that logic every theft would be legal, if possible... just because someone puts his oranges in boxes on the street infront of his shop, doesnt mean youre ment to take as much as you want for free, just because you can.
as i see it, its pretty much a pirated license if it comes to commercial work, untill adobe clearly says its not.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Got anything actually valid to add? Not sure what you think you are adding to the discussion with facetious bullshit.
yeah, that'd be my take on it.
I think the same.
And furthermore, if someone is using a pirated version of cs6, downloading this "cs2" is pointless. Anyone think the serial code they provided gives you a commercial license? i highly doubt it!
I have been using cs3 for years, and i needed to update to cs5 due the constant crashes of photoshop under Vista and later in 7... (Cs6 comes with an autosave/autobackup option and offer better perfomance than Cs5).
'Mortal fear of butt humping adobe ninjas/acrobats.' 'adobe shrug corporate-style.'
Yep, I'm thoroughly lost at this point
I think I made a very valid statement. And you know what, I don't care whether you see it as is being valid or not. Btw, don't be calling me out like that when I haven't said anything disrespectful to you or anyone else. It's just tacky.
Please elaborate.
Facts:
1. Ninjas are mammals.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.
For one, Adobe removed that AdobeID requirement. You don't even need to be an Adobe.com member anymore. Absolutely anybody can download it now. That's a fairly big thing. Second, and this is interesting, while Adobe staffers are quick to admit that anybody can download it, they clam up when people ask if it's free. Dead silence. They're not even correcting people on that notion anymore. In the past 2 days, highly active staffers like Jeff Wright have gone spouting from the party line of how you'll "want to have a valid license" to selective mutism. It's almost like the official position is no position.
I'm not saying that it's free, but it does look like Adobe has quietly given up. Probably too much effort and expense to correct the mistake. Not even almighty Adobe has a time machine.
I'm also not surprised they're not advertising this on their site. They are of course a business and the focus needs to be on their latest product. They're not exactly asking you to hack for it either though. If they didn't want it up, they can take it down or remove access permissions from the appropriate directories.
CS2 is about eight years old now. On the surface it may look similar to CS6, but the more advanced features are well... eight years ahead. You also wont get a discount on any of the new software by having a registered copy of CS2. (I think you can still get one with CS3)
All in all I say good for them for trying something new and it's great for hobbyists. I just hope it doesn't harm the open source community because that's matured quite a bit in the last eight years as well.
Would have been way more convincing had you used comic sans :P